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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #285840 > unrolled thread

Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'...

Started byDFS <nospam@dfs.com>
First post2015-03-24 13:12 -0400
Last post2015-03-24 14:41 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 142 — 15 participants

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Contents

  Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-24 13:12 -0400
    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-03-24 18:29 +0000
      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-24 12:47 -0700
        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-24 16:25 -0400
          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 13:36 -0700
          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-24 13:49 -0700
            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-25 04:27 -0700
              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-03-25 08:01 -0400
                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 10:59 -0700
                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-25 11:08 -0700
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 11:22 -0700
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-03-25 14:49 -0400
                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-25 12:20 -0700
                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 13:14 -0700
                        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-03-25 22:24 +0100
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 14:44 -0700
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-03-25 22:50 +0100
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2015-03-25 18:11 -0400
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 14:47 -0700
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-26 07:04 -0500
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:04 -0700
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-03-28 01:04 +0000
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 08:51 -0700
                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-25 15:54 -0600
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 15:02 -0700
                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-03-25 19:45 -0600
                        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 18:53 -0700
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 19:47 -0700
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-25 23:25 -0600
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 23:11 -0700
                        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 19:48 -0700
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 18:15 -0700
                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 07:48 -0700
                        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-26 11:11 -0400
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:17 -0700
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2015-03-26 10:36 -0700
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 11:04 -0700
                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2015-03-27 03:51 -0700
                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-27 08:10 -0400
                                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-30 04:51 -0700
                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-30 08:31 -0700
                                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-30 09:02 -0700
                                        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-30 09:19 -0700
                                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-30 09:44 -0700
                                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-30 10:02 -0700
                                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-30 11:19 -0700
                                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-30 11:48 -0700
                                                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-30 13:23 -0700
                                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-30 14:02 -0700
                                                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 13:27 -0700
                                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-30 14:01 -0700
                                                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 14:53 -0700
                                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-04-04 09:21 -0400
                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-03-30 21:42 +0000
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 11:45 -0700
                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 12:40 -0700
                                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-03-26 15:24 -0500
                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2015-03-26 17:48 -0400
                                      Re: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2015-03-26 18:00 -0400
                                        Re: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-03-26 23:10 +0100
                                          Silly subject redacted Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2015-03-26 20:23 -0400
                                            Re: Silly subject redacted Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2015-03-26 20:46 -0400
                                            Re: Silly subject redacted GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-27 14:13 -0600
                                          Re: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2015-03-26 20:44 -0400
                                          Re: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-27 14:13 -0600
                                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 19:08 -0700
                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 19:19 -0700
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-03-26 15:09 -0400
                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 12:16 -0700
                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 13:17 -0700
                              PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-03-26 19:00 -0700
                                Re: PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972. GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-27 14:10 -0600
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 09:50 -0700
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 10:57 -0700
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-03-26 18:14 +0000
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 11:46 -0700
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-26 14:21 -0600
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-03-26 21:34 +0000
                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-27 13:59 -0400
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-03-27 18:41 +0000
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 10:20 -0700
                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 11:21 -0700
                              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-04-04 09:33 -0400
                                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-04-04 09:47 -0400
                                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-04-04 10:16 -0400
                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-04-04 16:33 -0600
                                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-04-04 15:56 -0700
                                        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-04-05 12:41 -0600
                                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-04-05 12:56 -0700
                                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2015-04-05 16:49 -0700
                                            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-04-06 13:15 -0600
                                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-04-04 08:33 -0700
                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-04-04 20:00 -0400
                                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-04-04 16:58 +0000
                                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-04-04 19:59 -0400
                                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-04-05 00:29 +0000
                                        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-04-04 20:47 -0400
                                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-04-05 00:59 +0000
                          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-26 14:19 -0600
              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 10:31 -0700
                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-25 11:06 -0700
                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 11:21 -0700
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-25 12:16 -0700
                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 13:17 -0700
            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-25 23:41 -0400
              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 20:52 -0700
                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 21:20 -0700
                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-26 04:44 -0700
                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:21 -0700
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-26 14:16 -0600
                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 13:18 -0700
                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 08:54 -0700
                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-03-26 13:23 +0100
                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-26 07:39 -0500
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 08:49 -0700
                      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-03-26 20:14 +0100
                Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-26 11:11 -0400
                  Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-26 08:55 -0700
                    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:28 -0700
      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2015-03-24 13:07 -0700
        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 13:26 -0700
    Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 11:51 -0700
      Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-24 16:26 -0400
        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-24 13:52 -0700
          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-03-24 22:00 +0100
            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 15:30 -0700
          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-24 17:09 -0400
            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 15:43 -0700
            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-03-25 10:57 -0700
          Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-25 23:42 -0400
            Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 16:20 -0700
              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-03-26 19:12 -0600
              Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-03-26 22:32 -0500
                Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2015-03-27 06:10 -0400
                  Re: Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-27 08:09 -0400
                    Re: Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-03-27 09:02 -0400
                      Re: Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-27 14:06 -0600
                  Re: Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-27 07:42 -0500
                    Re: Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2015-03-27 09:08 -0400
                      Re: Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-03-27 09:26 -0400
                    Re: Snit says cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'!?!? GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2015-03-27 14:04 -0600
        Re: Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'... Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 14:41 -0700

Page 4 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8  Next page →


#286311 — Silly subject redacted

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2015-03-26 20:23 -0400
SubjectSilly subject redacted
Message-ID<mf27t6$3cb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#286309
Peter Köhlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Slimer wrote:
>
>> On 2015-03-26 5:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> 
>> < a bunch of lies and bad jokes >
>> 
>> You're an idiot, Chris AssStorm.
>
> Defending that imbecile Snit Michael Glasser again, you cretinous POS?

Don't worry, Peter.  "sLIEmore" is self-nuking.  He's the kind of guy
whom you just take a look at and say to yourself "He just screams
'asshole'".

I'll bet he wears his shirts unbuttoned to his navel.

-- 
A Linux machine! because a 486 is a terrible thing to waste!
(By jjs@wintermute.ucr.edu, Joe Sloan)

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#286314 — Re: Silly subject redacted

FromSlimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2015-03-26 20:46 -0400
SubjectRe: Silly subject redacted
Message-ID<mf296h$7n3$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#286311
On 2015-03-26 8:23 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

< a bad joke that nobody laughed at >

If you must know (to complete your wet dreams about me), I tend to wear 
a lot of slim-fit shirts whenever the weather improves. I like that they 
show off the physique that I work so hard to maintain and the females 
seem to enjoy staring at me whenever I have one on.

-- 
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

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#286399 — Re: Silly subject redacted

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2015-03-27 14:13 -0600
SubjectRe: Silly subject redacted
Message-ID<mcWdnWF41pyeJ4jInZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#286311
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Peter Köhlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> Slimer wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-03-26 5:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> 
>>> < a bunch of lies and bad jokes >
>>> 
>>> You're an idiot, Chris AssStorm.
>>
>> Defending that imbecile Snit Michael Glasser again, you cretinous POS?
> 
> Don't worry, Peter.  "sLIEmore" is self-nuking.  He's the kind of guy
> whom you just take a look at and say to yourself "He just screams
> 'asshole'".
> 
> I'll bet he wears his shirts unbuttoned to his navel.
> 

Guffaw!!!  But Koldturd thinks you are snit.

ROFLMAO!!!!

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#286313 — Re: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean

FromSlimer <slvrslmr@lv.c>
Date2015-03-26 20:44 -0400
SubjectRe: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean
Message-ID<mf292v$7n3$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#286309
On 2015-03-26 6:10 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

< nothing useful >

He was reasonable for exactly _one_ post. I enjoyed that version of 
Köhlmann and it's too bad I don't see it very often.

-- 
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

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#286398 — Re: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2015-03-27 14:13 -0600
SubjectRe: Chris AssStorm is a homoerotic version of Mr. Bean
Message-ID<mcWdnWZ41pxBJIjInZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#286309
Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Slimer wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-03-26 5:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> 
>> < a bunch of lies and bad jokes >
>> 
>> You're an idiot, Chris AssStorm.
>> 
> 
> Defending that imbecile Snit Michael Glasser again, you cretinous POS?

I didn't know Chris Ahlstrom was snit.

Or is it that you don't remember much after you've read it.
Time to check into the old timers home for you.

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#286323

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2015-03-26 19:08 -0700
Message-ID<D13A09AD.4924B%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#286304
On 3/26/15, 2:48 PM, in article mf1uq8$u47$1@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
<OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

> JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> 
>>>> We went over this before and the evidence showed:
>>>> 
>>>> In support of case insensitivity:
>>>> * every college we can find
>>>> * every university we can find
> 
> *LMAO*
> 
> All those colleges and universities likely teach C, C++, or Java...
> case-sensitive languages.
> 
> Snit... the FORTRAN of trolls.  :-D

Ah, yes, because I have been pushing FORTRAN so heavily or denying that
colleges teach C and Java.

Sigh. 

I do wish the herd could strive to be honest.

From an older post:
--------
* Every college and university found to take a stance on the issue
  (I have provided full links elsewhere - if you want them just ask):

    Clark Atlanta University
    Dublin City University
    Eastern Michigan University
    GeorgeTown University
    Ithaca College
    Michigan State University
    Purdue University
    Southeastern Louisiana University
    Southern Illinois University
    University of Hawaii
    University of Maine
    University of Maryland, Baltimore County
    Virginia Tech
    Western Michigan University

* Every source found through Google Scholar:

    Advanced CORBA(R) Programming with C++
    Essential C++ by Jarrell C. Grout, Robert G. Strader,
        and John B. Hanks
        <http://goo.gl/2AR9ZF>
    The case for Ada at the USAF academy
        Abstract available here:
        <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=958430>

* Every blogger writing about the topic:

    <http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=110>
    <http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=114>
    <http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1114>
    <http://goo.gl/g8FbNF>
    <http://goo.gl/5zT2Cn>

Now of course the final categories, bloggers, are less authoritative than
the other two, but it is truly amazing how there is not a single
counter-example that has been shown in *any* of the categories. I expected
to find *some* reference disagreeing... and still expect I or someone else
will.

And if this does happen you can bet that one source will be deemed by those
who find it convenient to trump all the others. :)
---------------------------------------------------------------

And the links for the colleges I refer to above (and from another post):
---------------------------------------------------------------
<http://www.cs.georgetown.edu/~mahe/252/notes/ch5.ppt>
<http://www.ithaca.edu/barr/Student/CS321/Slides/Ch5.ppt>
<https://cs.wmich.edu/~gupta/teaching/cs4850/sumII07/lecture%20notes/lec06-7
%20names%20bindings%20type-checking%20scope%200713-071607.pdf>
<http://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/galkadi/401/notes/chapter5.d
oc>
<http://www.cis.cau.edu/courses/476/ppt/pl10ch5.ppt >
    -----
    Case sensitivity
    - Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
      * Names in the C-based languages are case sensitive
      * Names in others are not
      * Worse in C++, Java, and C#  because predefined  names are mixed
        case  (e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
    -----
    
<http://www.cse.msu.edu/~cse452/Fall2004/Lectures/04-binding.ppt>
    -----
    Case sensitivity
    * Disadvantage:
      - readability (names that look alike are different)
      - writability (must remember exact spelling)
    -----


<http://www.emunix.emich.edu/~evett/ProgrammingLanguages/LectureNotes/ProgLa
ng4.pdf>
<http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3304/Spring00/notes/Chapter-4/Names.pdf>
<http://www2.cs.siu.edu/~rahimi/cs311/slides/Ch05.ppt>
    -----
    * Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
    * Worse in Modula-2 because predefined names are mixed case (e.g.
      WriteCard)
    * C, C++, Ja va, and Modula-2 names are case sensitive
    * The names in other languages are not
    -----
    
<http://www2.hawaii.edu/~janst/313/slides/5.1%20Scope.ppt>
    -----
    * Disadvantage: readability
      - names that look alike are different
    * C++ and Java: predefined names are mixed case
      - e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
    * Effects on writability?
    -----

<http://www.csee.umbc.edu/courses/331/spring03/0101/lectures/finin5.ppt>
    -----
    * The first languages only had upper case
    * Case sensitivity was probably introduced by Unix and hence C.
    * Disadvantage:
      Poor readability, since names that look alike to a human are
      different
    * Advantages:
      Larger namespace
      Ability to use case to signify classes of variables
      (e.g., make constants be in uppercase)
    -----
    
<http://computing.dcu.ie/~humphrys/Notes/UNIX/intro.html>
    -----
    Is case sensitivity a good thing? Or is it a flaw in UNIX (and
    C/C++)?
    
    Advantages of case sensitivity:
    * More readable code. You know what to expect.
    * More variables. num and NUM and Num
    * Set up conventions, so that NUM probably refers to a
      compile-time-coded constant, num is a real-time-changing
      variable, etc. Quicker/simpler searches on file lists, since can
      just search for the literal string.
    * Better to be case-sensitive for passwords. - Larger space to
      pick from. Harder to guess. Good to be "unforgiving" for security.
      
    Not much return for such huge disadvantages:
    * Millions of programmer and user hours lost on case not right.
    * UNIX web servers everywhere have constant log of "404 Not Found"
      which are really hits from people who noted a URL by hand and
      didn't know it should be case sensitive. (Web server should
      really have some logic to redirect of course.)
    -----
    
<http://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/galkadi/401/notes/chapter5.d
oc>
<https://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/sbarakat/cs456/456-07-4up.pdf>
    -----
    Case sensitivity
    - Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
      * Worse in C++ and Java  because predefined names are mixed case
        (e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
      * In C, however, exclusive use of lowercase for names.
    - C, C++, and Java names are case sensitive -> rose, Rose, ROSE
      are distinct names "What about Readability"
    ------
    
<http://umcs.maine.edu/~cmeadow/courses/cos301/cos301-5.pdf>
    -----
    * Case sensitive languages have a readability issue: names that
      look alike are different
    * Case sensitive languages that do not require variable
      declarations also have a writability issue: it's too easy to
      accidentally create a new variable
    -----

    
Ouch. Come on, the consensus in COLA *must* be supported somewhere, right?
This is just getting silly - I truly am shocked not a single source can be
found in support of case sensitivity. Not at all what I expected.
---------------------------------------------------------------




>>     Clearly you didn't search much.
>> 
>> [deletia]
>> 
>>     I suspect that when it comes to language design, this "crucial issue"
>> doesn't even blip on anyone's radar. If you brought it up, everyone in the
>> room would probably look at you like you suddenly grew a second head.
>> 
>>     They will be all going "Who let this amateur into the room!".
> 
> He's nothing but a somewhat clever k00k.  Mad as a hatter.



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#286327

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2015-03-26 19:19 -0700
Message-ID<D13A0C28.49255%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#286290
On 3/26/15, 1:24 PM, in article slrnmh8qok.j8o.jedi@nomad.mishnet,
"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>> On 3/26/15, 10:36 AM, in article
>>> 2ca2dfd3-3864-4346-b968-f18dc20089b3@googlegroups.com, "-hh"
>>> <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>> DFS wrote:
> 
> [deletia]
> 
>>> We went over this before and the evidence showed:
>>> 
>>> In support of case insensitivity:
>>> * every college we can find
>>> * every university we can find
> 
>     Clearly you didn't search much.

I clearly did more research than ANYONE else in COLA. By far. But by all
means show me what I missed:

From an older post:
--------
* Every college and university found to take a stance on the issue
  (I have provided full links elsewhere - if you want them just ask):

    Clark Atlanta University
    Dublin City University
    Eastern Michigan University
    GeorgeTown University
    Ithaca College
    Michigan State University
    Purdue University
    Southeastern Louisiana University
    Southern Illinois University
    University of Hawaii
    University of Maine
    University of Maryland, Baltimore County
    Virginia Tech
    Western Michigan University

* Every source found through Google Scholar:

    Advanced CORBA(R) Programming with C++
    Essential C++ by Jarrell C. Grout, Robert G. Strader,
        and John B. Hanks
        <http://goo.gl/2AR9ZF>
    The case for Ada at the USAF academy
        Abstract available here:
        <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=958430>

* Every blogger writing about the topic:

    <http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=110>
    <http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=114>
    <http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1114>
    <http://goo.gl/g8FbNF>
    <http://goo.gl/5zT2Cn>

Now of course the final categories, bloggers, are less authoritative than
the other two, but it is truly amazing how there is not a single
counter-example that has been shown in *any* of the categories. I expected
to find *some* reference disagreeing... and still expect I or someone else
will.

And if this does happen you can bet that one source will be deemed by those
who find it convenient to trump all the others. :)
---------------------------------------------------------------

And the links for the colleges I refer to above (and from another post):
---------------------------------------------------------------
<http://www.cs.georgetown.edu/~mahe/252/notes/ch5.ppt>
<http://www.ithaca.edu/barr/Student/CS321/Slides/Ch5.ppt>
<https://cs.wmich.edu/~gupta/teaching/cs4850/sumII07/lecture%20notes/lec06-7
%20names%20bindings%20type-checking%20scope%200713-071607.pdf>
<http://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/galkadi/401/notes/chapter5.d
oc>
<http://www.cis.cau.edu/courses/476/ppt/pl10ch5.ppt >
    -----
    Case sensitivity
    - Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
      * Names in the C-based languages are case sensitive
      * Names in others are not
      * Worse in C++, Java, and C#  because predefined  names are mixed
        case  (e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
    -----
    
<http://www.cse.msu.edu/~cse452/Fall2004/Lectures/04-binding.ppt>
    -----
    Case sensitivity
    * Disadvantage:
      - readability (names that look alike are different)
      - writability (must remember exact spelling)
    -----


<http://www.emunix.emich.edu/~evett/ProgrammingLanguages/LectureNotes/ProgLa
ng4.pdf>
<http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3304/Spring00/notes/Chapter-4/Names.pdf>
<http://www2.cs.siu.edu/~rahimi/cs311/slides/Ch05.ppt>
    -----
    * Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
    * Worse in Modula-2 because predefined names are mixed case (e.g.
      WriteCard)
    * C, C++, Ja va, and Modula-2 names are case sensitive
    * The names in other languages are not
    -----
    
<http://www2.hawaii.edu/~janst/313/slides/5.1%20Scope.ppt>
    -----
    * Disadvantage: readability
      - names that look alike are different
    * C++ and Java: predefined names are mixed case
      - e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
    * Effects on writability?
    -----

<http://www.csee.umbc.edu/courses/331/spring03/0101/lectures/finin5.ppt>
    -----
    * The first languages only had upper case
    * Case sensitivity was probably introduced by Unix and hence C.
    * Disadvantage:
      Poor readability, since names that look alike to a human are
      different
    * Advantages:
      Larger namespace
      Ability to use case to signify classes of variables
      (e.g., make constants be in uppercase)
    -----
    
<http://computing.dcu.ie/~humphrys/Notes/UNIX/intro.html>
    -----
    Is case sensitivity a good thing? Or is it a flaw in UNIX (and
    C/C++)?
    
    Advantages of case sensitivity:
    * More readable code. You know what to expect.
    * More variables. num and NUM and Num
    * Set up conventions, so that NUM probably refers to a
      compile-time-coded constant, num is a real-time-changing
      variable, etc. Quicker/simpler searches on file lists, since can
      just search for the literal string.
    * Better to be case-sensitive for passwords. - Larger space to
      pick from. Harder to guess. Good to be "unforgiving" for security.
      
    Not much return for such huge disadvantages:
    * Millions of programmer and user hours lost on case not right.
    * UNIX web servers everywhere have constant log of "404 Not Found"
      which are really hits from people who noted a URL by hand and
      didn't know it should be case sensitive. (Web server should
      really have some logic to redirect of course.)
    -----
    
<http://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/galkadi/401/notes/chapter5.d
oc>
<https://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/sbarakat/cs456/456-07-4up.pdf>
    -----
    Case sensitivity
    - Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
      * Worse in C++ and Java  because predefined names are mixed case
        (e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
      * In C, however, exclusive use of lowercase for names.
    - C, C++, and Java names are case sensitive -> rose, Rose, ROSE
      are distinct names "What about Readability"
    ------
    
<http://umcs.maine.edu/~cmeadow/courses/cos301/cos301-5.pdf>
    -----
    * Case sensitive languages have a readability issue: names that
      look alike are different
    * Case sensitive languages that do not require variable
      declarations also have a writability issue: it's too easy to
      accidentally create a new variable
    -----

    
Ouch. Come on, the consensus in COLA *must* be supported somewhere, right?
This is just getting silly - I truly am shocked not a single source can be
found in support of case sensitivity. Not at all what I expected.
---------------------------------------------------------------


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#286263

From"Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com>
Date2015-03-26 15:09 -0400
Message-ID<mf1ldv$n1j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#286256
"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message 
news:2ca2dfd3-3864-4346-b968-f18dc20089b3@googlegroups.com...
> Steve Carroll wrote:
>> DFS wrote:
>> > [...]
>> > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
>> > Windows and VB does it).
>>
>> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
>
> IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
> to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
> being case-preserving'.
>
> Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one
> is merely the observation that programmers are lazy when
> they can get away with it.
>

There's no definitive rule whether or not a computer language is case 
sensitive or not. Most programming languages are case sensitive while others 
are not.

A programming language imposes many rules on programmers. Rules on how to 
declare variables, rules on functions, rules on assignment, rules on testing 
for equality and inequality and rules for everything else that is and isn't 
allowed by the language. Case sensitivity is just another one of those 
rules. The people who designed the language made a decision at one time how 
the language handles case and that became the rule.

There's no reason why it *must* be one way or another. Some of it is 
probably individual preference. The people who design new language are most 
likely experienced with other languages and those languages were probably 
case-sensitive. Their prior experience with case sensitive languages 
influenced them to use the same rule in their language.

Languages should be consistent. So if variables are case insensitive then 
identifiers, key-words and functions should also be case insensitive. 
Consistency in variable names, function names, etc makes code neater as in 
easier to read which reduces mistakes. Case sensitivity enforces 
consistency - allowing any case does not.

Aside from a unusual personal preference, there's no technical advantage to 
being case insensitive. There are some technical advantages to being case 
sensitive. One example would be interfacing with existing languages (calling 
or being called from) that are already case sensitive. It's easier 
interfacing a (new) case sensitive language into a world that's dominated by 
other case sensitive languages.



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#286266

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2015-03-26 12:16 -0700
Message-ID<D139A916.49208%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#286263
On 3/26/15, 12:09 PM, in article mf1ldv$n1j$1@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
<zeke@nosuchemail.com> wrote:

> 
> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
> news:2ca2dfd3-3864-4346-b968-f18dc20089b3@googlegroups.com...
>> Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> DFS wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
>>>> Windows and VB does it).
>>> 
>>> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
>> 
>> IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
>> to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
>> being case-preserving'.
>> 
>> Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one
>> is merely the observation that programmers are lazy when
>> they can get away with it.
>> 
> 
> There's no definitive rule whether or not a computer language is case
> sensitive or not. Most programming languages are case sensitive while others
> are not.
> 
> A programming language imposes many rules on programmers. Rules on how to
> declare variables, rules on functions, rules on assignment, rules on testing
> for equality and inequality and rules for everything else that is and isn't
> allowed by the language. Case sensitivity is just another one of those
> rules. The people who designed the language made a decision at one time how
> the language handles case and that became the rule.
> 
> There's no reason why it *must* be one way or another. Some of it is
> probably individual preference. The people who design new language are most
> likely experienced with other languages and those languages were probably
> case-sensitive. Their prior experience with case sensitive languages
> influenced them to use the same rule in their language.

Right... much like people use QWERTY. It is not necessarily the "best" but
even when we make new keyboards we keep many of the same conventions.

> Languages should be consistent. So if variables are case insensitive then
> identifiers, key-words and functions should also be case insensitive.
> Consistency in variable names, function names, etc makes code neater as in
> easier to read which reduces mistakes. Case sensitivity enforces
> consistency - allowing any case does not.
> 
> Aside from a unusual personal preference, there's no technical advantage to
> being case insensitive. There are some technical advantages to being case
> sensitive. One example would be interfacing with existing languages (calling
> or being called from) that are already case sensitive. It's easier
> interfacing a (new) case sensitive language into a world that's dominated by
> other case sensitive languages.

Fair enough... and added to my list of support areas:

In support of case insensitivity:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of case sensitivity:
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used
* makes interfacing with other common languages.

If you think I left some out please let me know what they are.



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#286286

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-26 13:17 -0700
Message-ID<d8693e02-22ad-4802-84b5-461b5ddfb033@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#286263
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-6, Ezekiel wrote:
> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message 
> news:2ca2dfd3-3864-4346-b968-f18dc20089b3@googlegroups.com...
> > Steve Carroll wrote:
> >> DFS wrote:
> >> > [...]
> >> > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
> >> > Windows and VB does it).
> >>
> >> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
> >
> > IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
> > to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
> > being case-preserving'.
> >
> > Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one
> > is merely the observation that programmers are lazy when
> > they can get away with it.
> >
> 
> There's no definitive rule whether or not a computer language is case 
> sensitive or not. Most programming languages are case sensitive while others 
> are not.
> 
> A programming language imposes many rules on programmers. Rules on how to 
> declare variables, rules on functions, rules on assignment, rules on testing 
> for equality and inequality and rules for everything else that is and isn't 
> allowed by the language. Case sensitivity is just another one of those 
> rules.

Exactly.

> The people who designed the language made a decision at one time how 
> the language handles case and that became the rule.

And they had reasons for doing so that consisted of more than just:
 
'that's the way we've always done it'.

> There's no reason why it *must* be one way or another. 

But there are reasons why you might want to do it one way over another.

> Some of it is 
> probably individual preference. The people who design new language are most 
> likely experienced with other languages and those languages were probably 
> case-sensitive. Their prior experience with case sensitive languages 
> influenced them to use the same rule in their language.

A thing that likely wouldn't be done over and over if there were no other advantages.

> Languages should be consistent. So if variables are case insensitive then 
> identifiers, key-words and functions should also be case insensitive. 
> Consistency in variable names, function names, etc makes code neater as in 
> easier to read which reduces mistakes. Case sensitivity enforces 
> consistency - allowing any case does not.

I actually like the 'enforcing' aspect of it, I don't consider it to be *extra* work (as Snit suggested).

> Aside from a unusual personal preference, there's no technical advantage to 
> being case insensitive. There are some technical advantages to being case 
> sensitive. One example would be interfacing with existing languages (calling 
> or being called from) that are already case sensitive. It's easier 
> interfacing a (new) case sensitive language into a world that's dominated by 
> other case sensitive languages.

A Quora post which posed the question:

"Why is Java case-sensitive? Is there any advantage?"

The reply...

"Better to ask the opposite question: why have case insensitivity? It turns out that case insensitivity is more complex than you might imagine -- in plain old english 7-bit ASCII-land it's easy to define and everyone agrees on what it means. However we live in a world of UTF-8/UNICODE and hundreds of languages many of which don't use latin characters. In that context 'case insensitivity' loses much of its meaning, and certainly becomes harder to define clearly. So, since case insensitivity is something of a pain to pin down, the natural tendency to make things simple and easy means you don't want to have it unless there's some very good reason to do so. No such very good reason exists today for programming language identifiers. In the distant past there was a good reason, which was that there were machines and operating systems that did not have lower case, and there was a concern that case sensitivity might lead to interoperability issues with those machines."

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#286322 — PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972.

FromJeff-Relf.Me <@.>
Date2015-03-26 19:00 -0700
SubjectPDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972.
Message-ID<Jeff-Relf.Me@Mar.26{7.00P.Seattle.2015}>
In reply to#286256
<PRE Style='Font-Family: OCR A !important;'><big><big> 
PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972.

At the time, case·sensitivity made sense.
Today, not so much.

DFS wrote:
> > > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best
> > > ( like Windows and VB does it ).

DFS is right because you should be able
to camel case the "all lower case" file names
that countless idiots are spitting out.

If you're part of a programming team,
and you can't search and replace other's variable names,
then you want "case-insensitive and case-preserving" variables.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#286397 — Re: PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972.

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2015-03-27 14:10 -0600
SubjectRe: PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972.
Message-ID<mcWdnWd41pzPJIjInZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#286322
Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> wrote:

> <PRE Style='Font-Family: OCR A !important;'><big><big>
> PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972.
> 
> At the time, case·sensitivity made sense.
> Today, not so much.
> 
> DFS wrote:
>> > > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best
>> > > ( like Windows and VB does it ).
> 
> DFS is right because you should be able
> to camel case the "all lower case" file names
> that countless idiots are spitting out.
> 
> If you're part of a programming team,
> and you can't search and replace other's variable names,
> then you want "case-insensitive and case-preserving" variables.

VMS at the file system level was the same way.
The C language on VMS still was case sensitive.
Their Fortran language wasn't case sensitive.
And using a VAX for a lot of people on one machine, case-insensitive/case 
preserving actually made it less frustrating to use.

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#286249

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2015-03-26 09:50 -0700
Message-ID<D13986DC.491F0%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#286226
On 3/26/15, 8:11 AM, in article mf17hi$mjg$2@dont-email.me, "DFS"
<nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> 
>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>> identifiers.
> 
> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.

Developers go through *extra* work to make these things work like people
think... yet you refuse to call out Carroll on his lie:

  Steve Carroll:
    -----
    Snit, and his "expert" are overlooking one simple fact (among other
    things), computers languages exist for humans, not compilers.
    -----

> recSet
> RecSet
> completely different cursor variables!
> 
> 
> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> completely different files!
> 
> 
> trash
> Trash
> Completely different folders!

Excellent examples.

> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
> does it).
> 
> 
> (Quiz: how many case-variations of the spelling of 'trash' are allowed
> when creating folders in Linux?  In Windows?  No fair referring to
> wikipedia or any other reference)




-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#286257

FromSteve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-26 10:57 -0700
Message-ID<ea48d08a-c737-4891-b81c-fc6e88dfd0b9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#286249
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:50:30 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 3/26/15, 8:11 AM, in article mf17hi$mjg$2@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > 
> >> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
> >> identifiers.
> > 
> > Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
> > file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
> > different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
> 
> Developers go through *extra* work to make these things work like people
> think... 

People 'think' case sensitive, it's what we all grew up with so it's not really "work" to continue to "think" like that. Let's get Snit-like silly here for a second... though, this will still make more sense than many of your "arguments" ;)

Why, do you suppose, did they use the full alphabet back when all they had were upper case characters? Why not use just a part of it, say, the vowels? Isn't anything more just creating  "*extra* work"?

Your goal should be to produce the cleanest, most efficient code when you're programming but you won't get very far by making the act itself as easy as you can possibly make it. What I'm saying is, if you're myopically focused on the act itself, then the end result suffers. I don't recall the name of the principle but it's simple... if I create a language easy enough for any 6 year old to understand, it's not going to be adopted by serious programmers for an obvious reason. There are tradeoffs involved here... and this one starts by asking the obvious question:

Why use only a subset of what we grew up with (and tossing a concept with it), especially when we know we wish to incorporate as much expressiveness into a language as we can while still having it be accessible?

This limitation made more sense when resources were limited but it doesn't make as much sense now, which is why we find case sensitive languages alive and well. They don't exist for the reason you said (historical), they exist because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in the mind's of people that create and use them. 

> yet you refuse to call out Carroll on his lie:
> 
>   Steve Carroll:
>     -----
>     Snit, and his "expert" are overlooking one simple fact (among other
>     things), computers languages exist for humans, not compilers.
>     -----
> 
> > recSet
> > RecSet
> > completely different cursor variables!
> > 
> > 
> > SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> > SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> > completely different files!
> > 
> > 
> > trash
> > Trash
> > Completely different folders!
> 
> Excellent examples.

Of a file system (not a programming language).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#286259

Fromowl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Date2015-03-26 18:14 +0000
Message-ID<bvhdu0.3ap@rooftop.invalid>
In reply to#286226
DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:

>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>> identifiers.

> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or 
> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something 
> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.

> recSet
> RecSet
> completely different cursor variables!

RekSet

> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> completely different files!

SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso

> trash
> Trash
> Completely different folders!

Why not?  They have different names.

owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
0000000 7274 7361 0a68                         
0000006
owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
0000000 7254 7361 0a68                         
0000006
owl@thinkpad:~$ 


> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB 
> does it).

No, that's retarded.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#286261

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2015-03-26 11:46 -0700
Message-ID<D139A218.49200%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#286259
On 3/26/15, 11:14 AM, in article bvhdu0.3ap@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
<owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> 
>>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>>> identifiers.
> 
>> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
>> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
>> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
> 
>> recSet
>> RecSet
>> completely different cursor variables!
> 
> RekSet
> 
>> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> completely different files!
> 
> SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso

Oh, case insensitivity with case preservation does not solve ALL possible
confusion, only some.

>> trash
>> Trash
>> Completely different folders!
> 
> Why not?  They have different names.
> 
> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7274 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7254 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$ 
> 
> 
>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
>> does it).
> 
> No, that's retarded.

In support of case insensitivity:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of case sensitivity:
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

If you think I left some out please let me know what they are.


-- 
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mavericks / Pages 5.1:            <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#286289

FromGreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>
Date2015-03-26 14:21 -0600
Message-ID<cdidnaxyQ4PW94nInZ2dnUU7-amdnZ2d@bresnan.com>
In reply to#286259
owl wrote:

> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> 
>>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>>> identifiers.
> 
>> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
>> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
>> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
> 
>> recSet
>> RecSet
>> completely different cursor variables!
> 
> RekSet
> 
>> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> completely different files!
> 
> SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> 
>> trash
>> Trash
>> Completely different folders!
> 
> Why not?  They have different names.
> 
> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7274 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7254 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$
> 
> 
>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
>> does it).
> 
> No, that's retarded.

Erm, VMS was that way as well.  It actually worked out for the better in an 
environment that just used terminals.
OS X default is that way too.  Sun Solaris isn't, but the long file names 
were a bitch under the usual SH (sh) shell.  It didn't have command line 
history.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#286302

Fromowl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Date2015-03-26 21:34 +0000
Message-ID<bvhd83.fa@rooftop.invalid>
In reply to#286289
GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> wrote:
> owl wrote:

>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> 
>>>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>>>> identifiers.
>> 
>>> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
>>> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
>>> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
>> 
>>> recSet
>>> RecSet
>>> completely different cursor variables!
>> 
>> RekSet
>> 
>>> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>>> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>>> completely different files!
>> 
>> SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> 
>>> trash
>>> Trash
>>> Completely different folders!
>> 
>> Why not?  They have different names.
>> 
>> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
>> 0000000 7274 7361 0a68
>> 0000006
>> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
>> 0000000 7254 7361 0a68
>> 0000006
>> owl@thinkpad:~$
>> 
>> 
>>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
>>> does it).
>> 
>> No, that's retarded.

> Erm, VMS was that way as well.

Probably why NT is so retarded.

>  It actually worked out for the better in an 
> environment that just used terminals.
> OS X default is that way too.

Need I say "retarded"?

>  Sun Solaris isn't, but the long file names 
> were a bitch under the usual SH (sh) shell.  It didn't have command line 
> history.

What they needed was a "~"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#286371

FromDFS <nospam@dfs.com>
Date2015-03-27 13:59 -0400
Message-ID<mf45pm$it1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#286259
On 3/26/2015 2:14 PM, owl wrote:
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>
>>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>>> identifiers.
>
>> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
>> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
>> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
>
>> recSet
>> RecSet
>> completely different cursor variables!
>
> RekSet

recSet is short for record set (the capital S is for readability)

RekSet short for record set?  I don't think so.



>> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> completely different files!
>
> SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
  SLE-Twelve-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso

completely different files!




>> trash
>> Trash
>> Completely different folders!
>
> Why not?  They have different names.

How can different names be spelled the same?




> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7274 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7254 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$
>
>
>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
>> does it).
>
> No, that's retarded.


Retarded is being able to create 64 versions of 'recset'.

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#286376

Fromowl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Date2015-03-27 18:41 +0000
Message-ID<bvh379.af3p3ff@rooftop.invalid>
In reply to#286371
DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
> On 3/26/2015 2:14 PM, owl wrote:
>> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>>> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>
>>>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>>>> identifiers.
>>
>>> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
>>> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
>>> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
>>
>>> recSet
>>> RecSet
>>> completely different cursor variables!
>>
>> RekSet

> recSet is short for record set (the capital S is for readability)

> RekSet short for record set?  I don't think so.

If I want to call a record a "Rek," I have that right.


>>> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>>> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>>> completely different files!
>>
>> SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>   SLE-Twelve-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso

> completely different files!

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Freedom is good. 

owl@thinkpad:~/test/dfs$ ls
SLE-twelve-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
SLE-Twelve-desktop-dvd-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
SLE-Twelve-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
owl@thinkpad:~/test/dfs$ stat * |grep Inode
Device: 806h/2054d      Inode: 2154445     Links: 1
Device: 806h/2054d      Inode: 2154420     Links: 1
Device: 806h/2054d      Inode: 2154284     Links: 2
Device: 806h/2054d      Inode: 2154284     Links: 2
owl@thinkpad:~/test/dfs$

Here's something interesting about NTFS on disk:

root@thinkpad:/win/Documents and Settings/owl/test# ls -l
total 5
-rwxrwxrwx 1 root root    0 2015-03-27 13:42 foo.txt
-rwxrwxrwx 1 root root    5 2015-03-27 13:42 FOO.txt
drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 2015-03-27 01:51 subtest
root@thinkpad:/win/Documents and Settings/owl/test# cat foo.txt
root@thinkpad:/win/Documents and Settings/owl/test# cat FOO.txt
blah
root@thinkpad:/win/Documents and Settings/owl/test# cd
root@thinkpad:~# mount |grep win
/dev/sda2 on /win type fuseblk (rw,nosuid,nodev,allow_other,blksize=4096)
root@thinkpad:~# fdisk -l |grep sda2
/dev/sda2             192       18853   149899264    7  HPFS/NTFS
root@thinkpad:~#

Mounted under Linux I can write to either file and cat them and see
different data.  I don't want to boot into doze right now, but last
night I used empty files and windows explorer will *list* them,
but they act as the same file. (If you change data in one, it shows
the change in the other).  I haven't tried seeing how windows handles
it if I change the data under linux first.  My guess is that it would
make them both equivalent to whichever one you open first.  I'll boot
into windows later and check.

>>> trash
>>> Trash
>>> Completely different folders!
>>
>> Why not?  They have different names.

> How can different names be spelled the same?

They can't.


>> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
>> 0000000 7274 7361 0a68
>> 0000006
>> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
>> 0000000 7254 7361 0a68
>> 0000006
>> owl@thinkpad:~$
>>
>>
>>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
>>> does it).
>>
>> No, that's retarded.


> Retarded is being able to create 64 versions of 'recset'.

Not if you want 64 versions.

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