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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #689406 > unrolled thread
| Started by | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 258 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 12:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-25 05:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-25 19:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-25 15:38 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 00:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-24 13:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-25 12:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-25 23:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 00:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 01:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 07:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 10:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-26 05:53 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:18 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:45 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:05 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:11 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:08 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-02 20:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 09:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 09:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 18:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-05 11:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:40 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-04 14:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-04 11:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-05 18:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 14:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 20:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:29 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 10:39 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 10:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:36 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 14:04 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 15:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 19:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 00:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 03:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-08 10:02 -0400
Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-07 04:18 +0000
Re: Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 00:56 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 07:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-07 17:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-08 07:06 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:23 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 02:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 07:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 22:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-04-27 09:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-28 08:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:49 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:42 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 18:51 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:26 +0000
Re: Evolution (was Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-26 08:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:46 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 07:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:30 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:49 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 18:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 20:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 21:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 17:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 22:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 19:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 00:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 00:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 18:22 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 01:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 08:53 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 13:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 21:03 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 06:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:14 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 15:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 08:56 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 16:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 09:48 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:05 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 17:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 11:01 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 19:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 23:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 16:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 07:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 08:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:32 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 19:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:46 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 17:20 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 01:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-24 18:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 20:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:04 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 17:26 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:57 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-24 21:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:58 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 07:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100rnee.3vb.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689510 |
On 2025-04-26, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 10:09:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > >> That is, they want to work on what they want to work on, rather than >> what needs to be done. > > Or rather, they work on what they see as needs to be done. > > If you want them to work on what you see as needing to be done, by all > means hire them and pay them for it. If you have a hammer, every problem is a nail. The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is to write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. Its what they CAN do. What you see needing to be done, is based on what your profession is. Its inheritly biased. Ask those in finance what needs to be done to fix society, and you'll get a financial solution. Ask a priest, they'll say its spiritial. Ask a hipster hacker, and they'll think its some AI or framework or some platform.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 08:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vukr6f$dud6$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689531 |
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:33:34 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is to > write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. Its > what they CAN do. Show us your better way in action, then.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 12:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100uri5.ju6.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689540 |
On 2025-04-27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:33:34 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > >> The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is to >> write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. Its >> what they CAN do. > > Show us your better way in action, then. Sometimes the better way is not to start again from scratch and throw everything out. There are plenty of examples of change which is managed well. Remember, my issue not with Wayland per se. I think you misread here. If people want to build a replacements to X11, go ahead. However, if you do so, you're going to have to accmodate that an existing one exists, with a LOT of legacy and will stay for a while. I'll give another example. The D Language, which is a multiparadigm language, based on C (kind of like C++), can directly link C libraries, and to some extent C++ libraries. D code which is also valid C code, will behave the same in D and C. There is a "better C" mode where you can write D code that you can link in with your C or C++ programs. This allows you to "transition" without throwing everything away. C++ did the same. It suffered because it was compatible with C (almost all C code is valid C++ code), but this was also the reason for its success. People bag it, but people also use it. Windows dropped backwards compatibility when it was no longer really an issue for the vast, vast majority. I didn't leave Fedora because Wayland exists, I left Fedora because I think they were approaching removing X11 too early. X software will transition to Wayland (such as DE's and Window Managers), but this decision is premature. XFce support for Wayland is in its infancy.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 02:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vupekg$pu5b$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689586 |
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 12:02:13 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-04-27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:33:34 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >> >>> The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is >>> to write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. >>> Its what they CAN do. >> >> Show us your better way in action, then. > > Sometimes the better way is not to start again from scratch and throw > everything out. You already said that. > There are plenty of examples of change which is managed well. But you don’t count the X11-to-Wayland transition as one of those? How would you have handled it? > I didn't leave Fedora because Wayland exists, I left Fedora because > I think they were approaching removing X11 too early. X11 has been languishing in “legacy mode” for years.
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| From | Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 09:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <680df502$0$5208$426a74cc@news.free.fr> |
| In reply to | #689531 |
Le 27-04-2025, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> a écrit : > On 2025-04-26, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 10:09:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >> >>> That is, they want to work on what they want to work on, rather than >>> what needs to be done. >> >> Or rather, they work on what they see as needs to be done. >> >> If you want them to work on what you see as needing to be done, by all >> means hire them and pay them for it. > > If you have a hammer, every problem is a nail. > > The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is to > write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. Its > what they CAN do. Sometimes, when something is conceptually broken, the only way is to start from scratch. That's what happened for Wayland. Nobody wanted to fix the X11 issues. If you want the X11 issues being fixed instead of the project being left alone, you have solutions. You can do the work yourself. Or, you can pay developers to do the work for you. -- Si vous avez du temps à perdre : https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 01:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vumkr7$21v0f$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689542 |
On 27 Apr 2025 09:12:34 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: > Nobody wanted to fix the X11 issues. The whole architecture was full of baggage from the 1980s. Consider: in addition to the graphics library, it even included a font server. Clearly the assumption was that all rendering of screen images was going to happen on the display server, not in the client app. That assumption became more and more anachronistic over time.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 11:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100uqtl.ju6.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689542 |
On 2025-04-27, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote: > Le 27-04-2025, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> a écrit : >> On 2025-04-26, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 10:09:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>> >>>> That is, they want to work on what they want to work on, rather than >>>> what needs to be done. >>> >>> Or rather, they work on what they see as needs to be done. >>> >>> If you want them to work on what you see as needing to be done, by all >>> means hire them and pay them for it. >> >> If you have a hammer, every problem is a nail. >> >> The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is to >> write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. Its >> what they CAN do. > > Sometimes, when something is conceptually broken, the only way is to > start from scratch. That's what happened for Wayland. Nobody wanted to > fix the X11 issues. If you want the X11 issues being fixed instead of > the project being left alone, you have solutions. You can do the work > yourself. Or, you can pay developers to do the work for you. > Its like IPv6. It fixes the shortcomings of IPv4, but that transition will happen slow (perhaps too slow), and IPv4 will go when its no longer needed. X11 *will* go one day, but tech companies do like to push change, force it, regardless of whether customers ask or not. When the "auto" keyword was added to C++11, it could have created a problem for legacy code which used 'auto' in a different context. The committee checked a lot of code to see whether it would cause an issue and determined it wouldn't break code. This is how responsible adults work. Silicon Valley yahoos believe in "move fast and break things".
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 08:37 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vunsr6$3999j$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689585 |
Borax Man wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> Silicon Valley yahoos believe in "move fast and break things".
The same strategy with Microsoft... it means they can sell new
"versions".
https://www.miamiherald.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/dave-barry/article1963171.html
But my point is that because of computer weirdness, I regularly see an
entire morning's work - sometimes as many as 18 words - get blipped away
forever to the Planet of Lost Data. Needless to say, I use Microsoft
Windows. I've been a loyal Windows man since the first version, which
required you to write on the screen with crayons. Every year or so,
Microsoft comes out with a new version, which Microsoft always swears is
better and more reliable, and I always buy it. I bought Windows 2.0,
Windows 3.0, Windows 3.1415926, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows
RSVP, The Best of Windows, Windows Strikes Back, Windows Does Dallas, and
Windows Let's All Buy Bill Gates a House the Size of Vermont. My computers
keep having seizures, but I keep buying Windows versions, hoping I'll get
lucky. I'm like the loser in the nightclub who keeps hitting on the hot
babe. His shoes are squishing from the piña colada she poured on him, but
he's thinking: "She's warming up to me!" I bring this all up because now
Microsoft has a new version out, Windows XP, which according to everybody
is the "most reliable Windows ever." To me, this is like saying that
asparagus is "the most articulate vegetable ever." But still, I am tempted.
"Maybe this will be the one, " I say to Buddy, as the two of us wait for
the disks to be scanned.
--
I invented skydiving in 1989!
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 02:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vupemb$pu5b$10@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689585 |
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 11:51:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > When the "auto" keyword was added to C++11, it could have created a > problem for legacy code which used 'auto' in a different context. The > committee checked a lot of code to see whether it would cause an issue > and determined it wouldn't break code. This is how responsible adults > work. Why not give us an example of responsible adulthood in action, by showing us how you would fix up X11 to prolong its life a bit further?
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| From | chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 08:49 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <m9ds0khdk1eehmn8181cu8c1s6th05ff6v@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #689531 |
Borax Man wrote: >The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is to >write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. Its >what they CAN do. Generally speaking, if it's not needed you won't get paid to do it. There are lots of hobbies or unpaid past times, in the world. Only a fool ridicules others for how they choose to use their time.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 11:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100uqje.ju6.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689548 |
On 2025-04-27, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Borax Man wrote: > >>The problem is you have software developers who think the solution is to >>write more code. Write another protocol. Write a new framework. Its >>what they CAN do. > > Generally speaking, if it's not needed you won't get paid to do it. > > There are lots of hobbies or unpaid past times, in the world. Only a > fool ridicules others for how they choose to use their time. > If you can convince someone it is needed, you will get paid for it. Why do you think the DEI industry is a 10 billion dollar a year industry? Companies were made to think they needed it.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 06:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100rjti.bh86.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689491 |
On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-26, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>>> >>>>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't >>>>> just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. >>>> >>>> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, then >>>> yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s not >>>> worth it, let’s just drop it”. >>> >>> >>> But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some >>> degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs work on >>> what the want to work on, not what people need. >>> >>> In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make sense, >>> but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and again. We >>> also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication. >> >> Kind of like Ubuntu trying to force Unity on everyone because "they knew >> better." Or Gnome making huge changes in Gnome 3 because they knew better >> than the user what the *should* want. That's basically why Linux Mint took >> off. Mate and Cinnamon were what a LOT of users wanted, not Gnome 3 or >> Unity. >> > What I was referring to problem, isn't limited to software. It seems to > be a Millenial trait in general, or of younger people. That is, they > want to work on what they want to work on, rather than what needs to be > done. People seeing their work as an opportunity to do what they think > is best, rather than what *other* people need. They think that "work" > is just a way they can actualise themselves. Companies bend towards > this, catering to their needs, rather than the companies, or the > customers needs. We, the users, need our software to work. If you want > to work on it, your role is to stop our stuff breaking. > > Linus is "older school". "Don't break userspace" is something hes > stated. > > As I said, I don't object to modernising the graphical system, but you > have to accept, have to accomodate the Unix Legacy. If you don't want > that Legacy, work on a new OS, where you *can* just architecture > everything as you wish. Can't argue with you here. I guess I misunderstood your point. Sorry. I tend to read too quickly sometimes. -- Jesus sat with sinners: He didn't sin with them. Know the difference.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 07:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100rn9k.3vb.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689524 |
On 2025-04-27, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: >> On 2025-04-26, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't >>>>>> just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. >>>>> >>>>> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, then >>>>> yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s not >>>>> worth it, let’s just drop it”. >>>> >>>> >>>> But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some >>>> degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs work on >>>> what the want to work on, not what people need. >>>> >>>> In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make sense, >>>> but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and again. We >>>> also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication. >>> >>> Kind of like Ubuntu trying to force Unity on everyone because "they knew >>> better." Or Gnome making huge changes in Gnome 3 because they knew better >>> than the user what the *should* want. That's basically why Linux Mint took >>> off. Mate and Cinnamon were what a LOT of users wanted, not Gnome 3 or >>> Unity. >>> >> What I was referring to problem, isn't limited to software. It seems to >> be a Millenial trait in general, or of younger people. That is, they >> want to work on what they want to work on, rather than what needs to be >> done. People seeing their work as an opportunity to do what they think >> is best, rather than what *other* people need. They think that "work" >> is just a way they can actualise themselves. Companies bend towards >> this, catering to their needs, rather than the companies, or the >> customers needs. We, the users, need our software to work. If you want >> to work on it, your role is to stop our stuff breaking. >> >> Linus is "older school". "Don't break userspace" is something hes >> stated. >> >> As I said, I don't object to modernising the graphical system, but you >> have to accept, have to accomodate the Unix Legacy. If you don't want >> that Legacy, work on a new OS, where you *can* just architecture >> everything as you wish. > > Can't argue with you here. I guess I misunderstood your point. Sorry. I tend > to read too quickly sometimes. > Thats cool. I think many people just have this belief that things should be changed, reinvented. I used to believe that too. When I was young, naive, I thought that "We've always done it this way" was a poor reason to NOT change a system. Now that I'm more experienced, and been through many changes, implemented many, I'm more skeptical about changing things which appear on the surface to not be optimal, especially when you think you know better. There are other things to consider than simply "is this new method more efficient". On paper, it can appear better, but the world doesn't work according to 'on paper'. Its messy, and changing crappy legacy X to shiny new Y should be done with real, real care, and often, not at all.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 08:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vukrah$dud6$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689530 |
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:31:00 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > I think many people just have this belief that things > should be changed, reinvented. It’s not just some “belief”. What happens in the Open Source world is, somebody comes along and shows us a way that is provably better. And so, inevitably, the old ways get abandoned in favour of the new. Tradition is a strong brake on this (you yourself are an obvious example), but in a competitive environment, the new, superior way wins out, sooner or later.
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| From | chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 08:51 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <agds0ktf7t0qs767442pg1i384ppbhc2cp@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #689541 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > Borax Man wrote: >> >> I think many people just have this belief that things >> should be changed, reinvented. > >It’s not just some “belief”. What happens in the Open Source world is, >somebody comes along and shows us a way that is provably better. And so, >inevitably, the old ways get abandoned in favour of the new. It's how evolution works. -- "You freetards nauseate me." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 07:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100ubr2.cuiu.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689549 |
On 2025-04-27, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > >> Borax Man wrote: >>> >>> I think many people just have this belief that things >>> should be changed, reinvented. >> >>Its not just some belief. What happens in the Open Source world is, >>somebody comes along and shows us a way that is provably better. And so, >>inevitably, the old ways get abandoned in favour of the new. > > It's how evolution works. Actually it's not "evolution," as these decisions are made by someone. They are designed (the designer often has limited foresight). These changes don't happen accidentally. But, if you want to call it evolution, just remember there are a lot "dead ends" in so-called "evolution." -- Jesus sat with sinners: He didn't sin with them. Know the difference.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
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| Date | 2025-04-28 08:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <8MKPP.534544$541.449043@fx47.iad> |
| In reply to | #689579 |
On 2025-04-28 03:33, RonB wrote: > On 2025-04-27, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> >>> Borax Man wrote: >>>> >>>> I think many people just have this belief that things >>>> should be changed, reinvented. >>> >>> Its not just some belief. What happens in the Open Source world is, >>> somebody comes along and shows us a way that is provably better. And so, >>> inevitably, the old ways get abandoned in favour of the new. >> >> It's how evolution works. > > Actually it's not "evolution," as these decisions are made by someone. They > are designed (the designer often has limited foresight). These changes don't > happen accidentally. But, if you want to call it evolution, just remember > there are a lot "dead ends" in so-called "evolution." Many dead ends, actually. That is why a good number of evolutionists have gone on to become devout Christians. I would recommend <https://www.amazon.com/Darwinian-Delusion-Russ-Miller/dp/0943247969> as a reading for anyone is interested in the topic. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> |
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| Date | 2025-04-28 17:42 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <j0101ktbbko0m4h91pqmevj00n3bmdj7g7@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #689598 |
CrudeSausage wrote: >On 2025-04-28 03:33, RonB wrote: >> On 2025-04-27, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>> >>>> Borax Man wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think many people just have this belief that things >>>>> should be changed, reinvented. >>>> >>>> It?s not just some ?belief?. What happens in the Open Source world is, >>>> somebody comes along and shows us a way that is provably better. And so, >>>> inevitably, the old ways get abandoned in favour of the new. >>> >>> It's how evolution works. >> >> Actually it's not "evolution," as these decisions are made by someone. They >> are designed (the designer often has limited foresight). These changes don't >> happen accidentally. But, if you want to call it evolution, just remember >> there are a lot "dead ends" in so-called "evolution." Of course there are. My analogy is fine. >Many dead ends, actually. That is why a good number of evolutionists >have gone on to become devout Christians. Nonsense.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 18:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <uDTPP.462738$Pbo3.457947@fx34.iad> |
| In reply to | #689635 |
On 2025-04-28 18:42, chrisv wrote: > CrudeSausage wrote: > >> On 2025-04-28 03:33, RonB wrote: >>> On 2025-04-27, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>> >>>>> Borax Man wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I think many people just have this belief that things >>>>>> should be changed, reinvented. >>>>> >>>>> It?s not just some ?belief?. What happens in the Open Source world is, >>>>> somebody comes along and shows us a way that is provably better. And so, >>>>> inevitably, the old ways get abandoned in favour of the new. >>>> >>>> It's how evolution works. >>> >>> Actually it's not "evolution," as these decisions are made by someone. They >>> are designed (the designer often has limited foresight). These changes don't >>> happen accidentally. But, if you want to call it evolution, just remember >>> there are a lot "dead ends" in so-called "evolution." > > Of course there are. My analogy is fine. > >> Many dead ends, actually. That is why a good number of evolutionists >> have gone on to become devout Christians. > > Nonsense. They're listed in the book I recommended. They can't come up with answer through their theory, so they eventually submit to Creationism. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
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| Date | 2025-04-29 02:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7arlrF6o8vU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689636 |
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:51:06 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > They're listed in the book I recommended. They can't come up with answer > through their theory, so they eventually submit to Creationism. They're overlooking the real answer -- I don't know. Going metaphysical when you can't figure out the physical is a cop out. I once had an apartment above a young Jehovah's Witnesses couple. They invited me for supper, and possible recruitment. They were surprised when I said evolutionary theory had too many holes for me to find it convincing but I wasn't going to accept their answer either. I'm comfortable with 'I don't know'. I've always been sort of a secret Lamarkian, some of whose theories may get dusted off in the study of transgenerational epigenetic inheritance. Too bad Lysenko took that line of thought down a rat hole.
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