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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #680832 > unrolled thread

The problem with not owning the software

Started byCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
First post2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Last post2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
Articles 15 on this page of 255 — 29 participants

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Contents

  The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
      Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
        Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
              Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:57 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:46 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-01 14:50 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:03 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:41 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:29 -0500
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:38 -0500
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:45 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 12:00 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 18:01 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 13:59 -0500
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 20:45 +0000
                                                                  The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-05 03:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-05 17:28 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-04 20:25 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-04 15:58 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-04 11:23 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-07 02:31 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
                                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
                                                            [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
                                                                        Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 14:10 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
                                                              [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-05 11:05 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 13:29 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 13:53 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 15:08 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 10:17 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 10:28 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 11:26 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 12:34 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 12:40 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 14:23 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 16:27 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:05 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:50 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 16:16 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:46 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 11:36 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 18:58 -0500
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:59 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 02:18 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:41 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:08 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 13:54 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:26 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:43 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:32 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:37 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 19:43 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 18:58 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 01:43 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:02 -0500
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-31 10:10 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:50 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 12:09 -0500
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 10:31 +0000
    Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500

Page 13 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13]


#682534

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
Message-ID<vl9010.r1c.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#682525
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2025-01-03 06:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> >> On 2025-01-02 16:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ?Semantics? means "meaning?. So ?now it?s purely meaning??
> >>>>
> >>>> Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
> >>>> license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning
> >>>> in practice it is indistinguishable from ownership.
> >>>
> >>> So the distinction from actual ownership ... is that meaningful or not?
> >>
> >> I'm just going to say this again because it bears repeating:
> >>
> >> 1) I don't need to make an account to download software to Linux.
> >> 2) I don't need to make an account to use the software I downloaded.
> >> 3) I can install Linux without needing to log into an account I have or
> >> create one.
> >>
> >> If privacy is a concern, those are interesting advantages. Even if you
> >> don't care about privacy, you might be sick of logging in everywhere.
> > 
> >    FYI, you don't need to do any of those things for/on Windows either.
> 
> Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue without 
> logging in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if you pray five 
> times a day and stand on your head doing so, but it doesn't allow it be 
> default.

  The worarounds are not that difficult and some are even trivial. And
there is (well, at least was, didn't check recently) one, which doesn't
involve any hacks, just some 'clever'/'creative' answering of the
questions. In the latter case it does it allow to be the default.

> >    But most people don't know or can't be bothered that they have that
> > option.
> > 
> >    For Windows, it's quite easy and practical. No so much for, for
> > example, Android.
> 
> And what does Android have to do with this conversation?

  Nothing, other than that other (than Windows) commercial OSs have
these kinds of restrictions, i.e. comparing apples to apples. Oops! :-)

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#682859

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
Message-ID<vlcjv2$mlb7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682525
On Fri, 1/3/2025 8:55 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue without logging
> in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if you pray five times a day and
> stand on your head doing so, but it doesn't allow it be default.

Start with the https://rufus.ie USB stick preparation tool.

   Name: rufus-4.6p.exe                # Portable version
   Size: 1622832 bytes (1584 KiB)
   SHA256: 8279696C1D78B14618500E9135886A3667B9DECC65946F3729002E4BFDBB20AB

Run from Windows machine, to prepare Windows 11 media for clean install to a PC.
If Linux is onboard the target (to-be-installed) machine, make sure you have
prepared a [Linux] Boot Repair CD for later, when Linux needs to be returned to control.

It uses syslinux for the USB boot part, plus it modifies some
of the goods in the Windows 11 materials, for Windows-10-like behavior.
There is a separate dialog box, which only applies when you tell
Rufus (one way or another) that this is a Windows 11 project, that
will appear before the writes to the stick start.

   [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/9Q0kMWTB/Rufus-Boot-Stick-Preparation.gif

Note that, if you are using a Window 11 24H2 ISO, there is a
remote possibility that Rufus will defeat the usual issues,
however, Microsoft has promised the OS will *crash* if the
hardware does not support SSE4.2 POPCNT instruction. I tries on
the Optiplex 780, the E8400 Core2 Duo lacks the instruction, and
a Microsoft dialog stops the install. I don't get to crash.

   [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/X7Pw33gF/optiplex-780-Core2-Duo-W11-Fail.gif

Notice how in that example, I install W10Home first, then while
booted into Windows, I plug in the Rufus stick and run the Setup.exe
file on it. And do a W11-over-W10 installation. Which is a lot
smoother than what I'm about to show you.

If you made media from the 24H2 ISO, and had a perfectly compliant
machine, this is the hay ride you get to take. Starting over, ls likely
to be your fate. Imagine the length of the storyboard and how many
whiteboards it took to put together this customer torture sequence.
Notice on this side-by-side Clean Install of W11Home, my new C:
drive is Bitlocker encrypted. The key for it, will be stored
in my Cloud account at Microsoft, indexed by the new MSA I'm forced
to make.

   [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/XX6BGN1D/W11-24-H2-DVD-Install.gif

*******

Finally, this is the Success Case. W11-over-W10 using Rufus stick Setup.exe .

    [Picture]

     https://i.postimg.cc/T1FGRGJ7/Rufus-W11-Home-24-H2-on-10-year-old-machine.gif

Looks like Disk #33, normally used for Win10, now has a Win11 24H2 dual boot.
Since the processor has a POPCNT, no problem getting the install to work.

   Paul

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#682894

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
Message-ID<vlcrr2$nnbu$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682859
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 19:32:32 -0500, Paul wrote:

>> Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue without logging
>> in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if you pray five times a day and
>> stand on your head doing so, but it doesn't allow it be default.
> 
> [long-winded installation procedure deleted]

Which is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.

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#682963

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
Message-ID<vlecv4.k78.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#682894
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 19:32:32 -0500, Paul wrote:
> 
> >> Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue
> >> without logging in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if
> >> you pray five times a day and stand on your head doing so, but it
> >> doesn't allow it be default.
> > 
> > [long-winded installation procedure deleted]
> 
> Which is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.

  <barf!> It's good that *you* don't use Windows, because you have no
clue about what's (not) being talked about.

  Clue-by-four: Paul's procedure has *nothing* to do with the issue
which Andrzej raised (circumventing the need for a Microsoft account to
install Windows 11).

  But by all means, keep digging. One of these days you're bound to come
up at the other end.

  But granted, the procedure (to circumvent the need for a MSA) is
*very* complicated. In my case I needed to press the 'Airplane mode'
button on my keyboard. Heaven knows how I managed to do that. Must have
taken hours of my precious time.

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#683048

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
Message-ID<vlf7e8$197h8$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682963
On 5 Jan 2025 15:46:26 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 19:32:32 -0500, Paul wrote:
>> 
>>>> Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue
>>>> without logging in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if
>>>> you pray five times a day and stand on your head doing so, but it
>>>> doesn't allow it be default.
>>> 
>>> [long-winded installation procedure deleted]
>> 
>> Which is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
>> nothing.
> 
> Paul's procedure has *nothing* to do with the issue
> which Andrzej raised ...

Hey, if you think what he posted makes Dimdows look bad, take it up with 
him, not with me.

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#683124

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
Message-ID<vlguh6.o64.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#683048
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

[Yet another falsification deleted.]

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#682895

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
Message-ID<vlcrs1$nnc8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682859
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 19:32:32 -0500, Paul wrote:

>> Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue without logging
>> in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if you pray five times a day and
>> stand on your head doing so, but it doesn't allow it be default.
> 
> [long-winded installation procedure deleted]

Which is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth nothing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682675

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
Message-ID<vla5i4$5soj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682398
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2025-01-02 16:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
>>>> 
>>>> “Semantics” means "meaning”. So “now it’s purely meaning”?
>>> 
>>> Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
>>> license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning
>>> in practice it is indistinguishable from ownership.
>> 
>> So the distinction from actual ownership ... is that meaningful or not?
> 
> I'm just going to say this again because it bears repeating:
> 
> 1) I don't need to make an account to download software to Linux.
> 2) I don't need to make an account to use the software I downloaded.
> 3) I can install Linux without needing to log into an account I have or 
> create one.
> 
> If privacy is a concern, those are interesting advantages. Even if you 
> don't care about privacy, you might be sick of logging in everywhere.

That's not unique to linux. Even macOS does 1/2 and probably 3 with a
little effort. 

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#682673

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
Message-ID<vla58p$5r8r$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682391
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
>>> 
>>> “Semantics” means "meaning”. So “now it’s purely meaning”?
>> 
>> Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
>> license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning
>> in practice it is indistinguishable from ownership.
> 
> So the distinction from actual ownership ... is that meaningful or not?

In most cases, not. 

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#681800

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2024-12-30 19:02 -0500
Message-ID<vkvcb1$1rt3s$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#680982
On 12/21/2024 7:26 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:

> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person 
> who bought the software, you don't own it.


You don't own GuhNoo-GPL software either.  The only sofware you actually 
own is stuff you write for yourself, or that you get copyright to.

You don't own public domain stuff, either.

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#681841

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2024-12-31 10:10 +0000
Message-ID<6773c305$0$402$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#681800
Le 31-12-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
> On 12/21/2024 7:26 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person 
>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
>
>
> You don't own GuhNoo-GPL software either.  The only sofware you actually 
> own is stuff you write for yourself, or that you get copyright to.
>
> You don't own public domain stuff, either.

It means nothing to own an immaterial stuff in a general sense. Nobody
owns any software, music or book. Some own the right on it, it's not the
same. Or some own a digital copy of it. It's still not the same.

Now, you can own the exclusive privilege to manage what's on your own
computer (in a large sense, a smartphone is a computer, too). With FOSS,
you can be the master. With Windows and Mac, you can hope they won't do
anything bad, but you have no certainty. Microsoft already changed
Windows behaviour putting the config files on their cloud. You can tell
as long as you want, that without proof we can't accuse them of
anything. The fact remains that never doing anything bad in the past is
no certainty they won't change in the future.

Look at what Amazon did, when people believed they managed the kindle
and the books they bought. Before, there was no proof. After, there is
proof, but it's too late:
<https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html>
You can say that they removed illegal stuff refunding the customers, but
the fact remains: people discovered Amazon, not they, manage the kindle
they had in their hands and can interfere.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681876

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-31 08:50 -0500
Message-ID<0FScP.13174$XfF8.8235@fx04.iad>
In reply to#681841
On 2024-12-31 05:10, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 31-12-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>> On 12/21/2024 7:26 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person
>>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
>>
>>
>> You don't own GuhNoo-GPL software either.  The only sofware you actually
>> own is stuff you write for yourself, or that you get copyright to.
>>
>> You don't own public domain stuff, either.
> 
> It means nothing to own an immaterial stuff in a general sense. Nobody
> owns any software, music or book. Some own the right on it, it's not the
> same. Or some own a digital copy of it. It's still not the same.
> 
> Now, you can own the exclusive privilege to manage what's on your own
> computer (in a large sense, a smartphone is a computer, too). With FOSS,
> you can be the master. With Windows and Mac, you can hope they won't do
> anything bad, but you have no certainty. Microsoft already changed
> Windows behaviour putting the config files on their cloud. You can tell
> as long as you want, that without proof we can't accuse them of
> anything. The fact remains that never doing anything bad in the past is
> no certainty they won't change in the future.
> 
> Look at what Amazon did, when people believed they managed the kindle
> and the books they bought. Before, there was no proof. After, there is
> proof, but it's too late:
> <https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html>
> You can say that they removed illegal stuff refunding the customers, but
> the fact remains: people discovered Amazon, not they, manage the kindle
> they had in their hands and can interfere.

The positive about Amazon books is that their DRM can easily be removed 
in Calibre. Therefore, it is indeed possible to buy a book from Amazon 
and own it. That's what I did when I decided to replace the Kindle I 
lost on the metro with a Kobo. However, the DRM for Kobo purchases seems 
to be a little harder for Calibre to handle.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681890

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2024-12-31 12:09 -0500
Message-ID<vl18h3$2akln$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681841
On 12/31/2024 5:10 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 31-12-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>> On 12/21/2024 7:26 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person
>>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
>>
>>
>> You don't own GuhNoo-GPL software either.  The only sofware you actually
>> own is stuff you write for yourself, or that you get copyright to.
>>
>> You don't own public domain stuff, either.
> 
> It means nothing to own an immaterial stuff in a general sense. Nobody
> owns any software, music or book. Some own the right on it, it's not the
> same. Or some own a digital copy of it. It's still not the same.

It means a LOT to own digital and intellectual property: software, 
music, books, videos, patents, blueprints, even recipes such as the 
Coca-Cola formula.  Any intellectual property can and almost always is 
owned by a legal entity, be it you or me or Microsoft or Paramount 
Pictures (movie studio).  I'm not telling you anything new.

"This software is licensed, not sold" is the basis for Microsoft's 
immense wealth and power.


> Now, you can own the exclusive privilege to manage what's on your own
> computer (in a large sense, a smartphone is a computer, too). With FOSS,
> you can be the master. With Windows and Mac, you can hope they won't do
> anything bad, but you have no certainty. 

Linux users THINK they can be the master, but since virtually nobody 
audits FOSS code it's easy for a bad actor to mess with Linux systems. 
For instance, until I told him about it, the pathetic and smug Feeb 
didn't know his precious Cooledit spyware program phoned home upon 
install to tell the developer about the computer it was being installed on.

Open or closed source, it's all based on trust.  I trust MS, but I feel 
a little more certain Linux distros and FOSS developers won't mess with 
my software installation.

But day to day, I don't even think about it.


> Microsoft already changed
> Windows behaviour putting the config files on their cloud. You can tell
> as long as you want, that without proof we can't accuse them of
> anything. The fact remains that never doing anything bad in the past is
> no certainty they won't change in the future.

Yes.  The situation that MS can and has mistakenly deactivated valid 
Windows license keys is a travesty.


> Look at what Amazon did, when people believed they managed the kindle
> and the books they bought. Before, there was no proof. After, there is
> proof, but it's too late:
> <https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html>
> You can say that they removed illegal stuff refunding the customers, but
> the fact remains: people discovered Amazon, not they, manage the kindle
> they had in their hands and can interfere.

ALL this is a battle between good and evil:
Good: content creators and Windows users
Evil: pirates and Linux people

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#682746

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2025-01-04 10:31 +0000
Message-ID<67790de6$0$29733$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#681890
Le 31-12-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
> On 12/31/2024 5:10 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>> Le 31-12-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>> On 12/21/2024 7:26 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person
>>>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
>>>
>>>
>>> You don't own GuhNoo-GPL software either.  The only sofware you actually
>>> own is stuff you write for yourself, or that you get copyright to.
>>>
>>> You don't own public domain stuff, either.
>> 
>> It means nothing to own an immaterial stuff in a general sense. Nobody
>> owns any software, music or book. Some own the right on it, it's not the
>> same. Or some own a digital copy of it. It's still not the same.
>
> It means a LOT to own digital and intellectual property:

Yes, that's what I said. Owning rights on something isn't the same as
owning something in a broad undefined way.

>> Now, you can own the exclusive privilege to manage what's on your own
>> computer (in a large sense, a smartphone is a computer, too). With FOSS,
>> you can be the master. With Windows and Mac, you can hope they won't do
>> anything bad, but you have no certainty. 
>
> Linux users THINK they can be the master,

I don't think, it's too difficult. But I know I'm the master on my
computer.

> but since virtually nobody audits FOSS code it's easy for a bad actor
> to mess with Linux systems. 

When you find a piece of code on Internet, agreed, nobody audits it and
so if you don't do it by yourself, you can't know what it does. Agreed,
nobody is auditing the all full code. But, there are three other points
you are missing.

First, popular FOSS code is followed by a lot of people. A lot of them
look at small parts on it. And when someone send a patch, you don't need
to audit the all FOSS code to know what it does, you just need to look
at the patch. Which is done for big projects, like Linux.

Second, which derive from the precedent, is that when someone send a
patch, he puts his name on it. And his reputation. It has been shown
that when a code is made public, it's nicer than when it's hidden for
this reason. And so, when someone send a bad code he puts his reputation
and when it's discovered, it will be more difficult for him in the
future.

Third, in FOSS everyone does what he want. Unlike in a company in which
a programmer has to do what the company tells him to do. So, if he
disagree with the code delivered by his company, he can only quit his
company. In FOSS, he can fork it and brag about it, which has already
happened in the past. To say it differently, to do quiet bad thing is
easier for a company than for a FOSS project. In FOSS, it has to be done
by a malevolent isolated guy which has to be discret about it. Not only
in the public, but even in the project community.

Fourth, you can look at what your computer's doing. And when I started
to discover Linux at the same time I was discovering Windows, almost
thirty years ago, that was a really big important discovery. With Linux,
I was able to understand what it did. Compared to DOS/Windows 3.11/NT,
where I was only able to know what I can do with it. It was really a big
hit.

And it means something: years ago, I discovered by myself that by
default, Firefox send information to Mozilla. So, when I saw that, I
looked at every option possible to deactivate this crap. I didn't need
to monitor all Firefox code to know what it did, I just needed to look
at what happened on my computer.

> For instance, until I told him about it, the pathetic and smug Feeb 
> didn't know his precious Cooledit spyware program phoned home upon 
> install to tell the developer about the computer it was being installed on.

OK, the killer argument. So, let's have a little bit fun with your
almost magical sentence which proves exactly the opposite of what it was
mean to prove.

In this sentence, you seem to claim that LP/NV/DG/FR/whatever is the
master of the IT universe and what he can't do can't be done. But, here,
I have to tell you a secret: he's not. And it looks I have to explain
you why you should have avoid this argument.

My first argument was about popular code. And he can only use obscure
unknown software. So what he's using is not audited by anyone. And as
he's unable to audit anything, and as he's unable to monitor his own
computer, there is no way in which he could known what happens on his
computer. And as his repeated claims about security are always the same:
it's useless because there is nobody bad in his asylum, he can't even
use tools to help him compensate his lack of abilities.

So, let's rephrase it: he's doing everything humanly possible to have
viruses running on his computer. The only fact that he's having a
running computer is a wonder in itself. And it's the ultimate proof that
FOSS is working: he's protected by it against his willing.

> Open or closed source, it's all based on trust.

Of course there is always trust at the beginning. But trust don't avoid
control. Which is more easily done in a FOSS environment than in an
obscure close environment.

> But day to day, I don't even think about it.

I'm not paranoid, I don't spend my time thinking about it. But being a
little bit careful is easy enough to have confidence. When I upgrade my
computer, I look at what's upgraded, and when a change in version is
important, I look at what it brings. And being interested in what's
happening on my own computer brings me confidence on what it does.

>> Look at what Amazon did, when people believed they managed the kindle
>> and the books they bought. Before, there was no proof. After, there is
>> proof, but it's too late:
>> <https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html>
>> You can say that they removed illegal stuff refunding the customers, but
>> the fact remains: people discovered Amazon, not they, manage the kindle
>> they had in their hands and can interfere.
>
> ALL this is a battle between good and evil:

Ah, OK, now I understand why some people are so willing to bring
wokeness inside/outside of technology.

> Good: content creators and Windows users
> Evil: pirates and Linux people

Which means
Good: masters and slaves
Bad: freedom fighters
Understood.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#681290

Frombad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net>
Date2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
Message-ID<VzadnWq3ot5U6_H6nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#680832
On 12/19/24 20:03, CrudeSausage wrote:

> ​Microsoft 

"By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to 
the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust 
you will return.”

I don't see rental or proprietary anything in the above.

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