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Groups > comp.mobile.ipad > #58567 > unrolled thread

Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac

Started byHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
First post2016-09-12 01:34 +0000
Last post2016-09-13 06:10 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 100 — 8 participants

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Contents

  Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-12 01:34 +0000
    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-11 21:45 -0400
      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac AL <noemail@invalid.com> - 2016-09-11 20:17 -0700
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-12 20:11 +0000
      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-12 20:11 +0000
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 16:26 -0400
          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-12 21:14 +0000
            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 17:44 -0400
              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 00:22 +0000
                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 20:34 -0400
                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 03:32 +0000
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 23:38 -0400
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 04:05 +0000
                        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 00:14 -0400
                          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 04:50 +0000
                            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 01:07 -0400
                              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:13 +0000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 01:18 -0400
                                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:26 +0000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 05:19 +0000
                          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 04:51 +0000
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 04:39 +0000
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:13 +0000
                        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 05:26 +0000
                          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 18:12 +0000
                            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 05:28 +1000
                              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-16 20:36 +0000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 03:13 +0000
                                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 17:02 +1000
                                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-17 07:13 +0000
                                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-17 10:08 -0400
                              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 03:10 +0000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 15:17 +1000
                            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-16 20:34 +0000
                              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 10:38 +1000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 03:13 +0000
                                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 17:10 +1000
                                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-17 07:26 +0000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-17 07:25 +0000
                                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 20:02 +1000
                                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-17 17:31 +0000
                                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 06:05 +1000
                                        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-17 20:42 +0000
                                          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 07:46 +1000
                              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 03:09 +0000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 15:10 +1000
                                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-17 07:46 +0000
                                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 20:04 +1000
                          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 18:12 +0000
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 15:29 +1000
            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 10:10 +1000
              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 03:32 +0000
                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 23:38 -0400
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 07:07 +1000
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-12 21:35 +0000
          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac ElfinArc <elfinarc6@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 16:44 -0500
          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 00:21 +0000
            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 00:48 +0000
              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 20:50 -0400
                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 02:07 +0000
                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 04:05 +0000
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 15:20 +1000
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:26 +0000
                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 04:50 +0000
                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 05:11 +0000
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:26 +0000
              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 03:32 +0000
                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 04:33 +0000
                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:13 +0000
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 01:18 -0400
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:26 +0000
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 05:24 +0000
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:29 +0000
    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-12 02:25 +0000
      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-12 20:38 +0000
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 16:41 -0400
          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 00:22 +0000
            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 20:34 -0400
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-12 21:02 +0000
    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-12 09:47 +0100
      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 05:25 -0400
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-12 21:14 +0000
    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2016-09-12 09:00 -0400
      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 00:22 +0000
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 03:31 +0000
        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 04:49 +0000
          Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 05:08 +0000
            Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:26 +0000
              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 05:30 +0000
                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 05:42 +0000
                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 01:49 -0400
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 06:10 +0000
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 02:19 -0400
                        Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 05:51 +0000
                    Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 06:10 +0000
                      Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-09-13 06:14 +0000
                  Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:40 +0000
              Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 01:49 -0400
                Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 06:10 +0000

Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]


#58575

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-09-12 05:25 -0400
Message-ID<120920160525556254%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#58574
In article <nr5q29$m9q$1@dont-email.me>, David Taylor
<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> > What is the best way, nowadays, to scan for wireless frequencies given an
> > entirely Apple household of iPhones, iPads, Macbook Pros, and an iMac?
> []
> > What is the best way, nowadays, for this older couple to scan for wireless
> > frequencies given an entirely Apple household of iPhones, iPads, Macbook
> > Pros, and an iMac?
> 
> A cheap Android phone and inSSIDer, WiFi Analyzer, FRITZ!App WLAN etc. 
> etc.

what part of entirely apple household was not clear?

there's no need to buy *anything*. what they currently have is more
than adequate to scan for wifi networks, which isn't even the problem.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58594

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-12 21:14 +0000
Message-ID<nr75r2$lue$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58575
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 05:25:55 -0400, nospam wrote:

> there's no need to buy *anything*. what they currently have is more
> than adequate to scan for wifi networks, which isn't even the problem.

I agree there's no need to buy anything, and inSSIDer is no longer freeware
anyway. Luckily, I still have inSSIDer freeware on Android because I back
up the APKs automatically and I manually back up my zip/exe files on
Windows but that's not an option here, as nospam accurately noted.

Here, we will be using the Mac and iOS tools.

So far, they're:
1. iOS = AirPort Utility
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/airport-utility/id427276530

2. MAC = Netspot 
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/netspot-wifi-survey-wireless/id514951692

3. MAC = 
1. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/netspot-wifi-survey-wireless/id514951692
3. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202663

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58579

FromWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
Date2016-09-12 09:00 -0400
Message-ID<nr68t3$57v$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#58567
On 9/11/16 9:34 PM, Horace Algier wrote:

>
> What is the best way, nowadays, for this older couple to scan for wireless
> frequencies given an entirely Apple household of iPhones, iPads, Macbook
> Pros, and an iMac?
>

If all you want is a list of available networks:
:
On iOS devices, go to Settings/WiFi and look at the list of networks in 
range.

On Macs, right click the WiFi icon on the top right of your screen on 
the menu bar- - or go to System Preferences/Network and click the 
Network Name drop-down.

-- 
With all this “gun control” talk, I haven’t heard one politician say how 
they plan to take guns away from criminals and terrorists— just from law 
abiding citizens…

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58606

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 00:22 +0000
Message-ID<nr7gsj$15q2$4@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58579
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 09:00:18 -0400, Wade Garrett wrote:

> If all you want is a list of available networks:
>:
> On iOS devices, go to Settings/WiFi and look at the list of networks in 
> range.

Thanks for that idea, but more information is needed, e.g., the *channel*
that each device is on.

The all-Apple house ran the iPad iOS app named "AirPort Utility" which
showed them that they were on channel 11 while there were 19 others on
channel 11 alone!

19!
OMG. I've never seen airwaves *that* congested outside a college dorm
atmosphere!

All three of the non-overlapping channels were filled with access points,
but, strangely, channel 5 was empty, so I told them to set the *new* router
to channel 5, and then give up on 2.4GHz wifi if they could.

I told them to set the iOS devices and computers to *only* use 5GHz if they
can (dunno if that's possible though).

They haven't set up the new ac 1900 router (the ac 1750 at Best Buys was
$130 and I told them that is just fine but they opted for the $200 ac 1900
just to be safe).

> On Macs, right click the WiFi icon on the top right of your screen on 
> the menu bar- - or go to System Preferences/Network and click the 
> Network Name drop-down.

Thanks for that advice. I can't test it, and usually I find other peoples'
instructions are always less detailed than mine (they skip steps), even
when it's a DIY for fixing a car - I never skip a bolt - but other people
assume a lot.

I sent them the reference though, 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58615

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 03:31 +0000
Message-ID<nr7rv8$1jcr$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58606
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 18:45:22 -0700, AL wrote:

> I have 50Mbps cable service. I'm lucky in that it usually runs in the 
> high 50s to middle 60s. At the device end I usually measure 10 to 15 
> Mbps faster when using 5GHz than 2.4GHz. Whatever the reason, crowded 
> band or not, it's a no-brainer as to which band I set my devices to.

I have a couple of kids in graduate school and where they live they have
tons of others nearby. 

One has 50Mbps service from Comcast, as I recall, and she gets almost
90Mbps.

BTW, a trick I learned the hard way is that after 1 year of the
"introductory rate" from Comcast, they raise your bill - and it used to be
that if you called them, they'd automatically give you the introductory
rate again.

I was told recently that they *stopped* doing that in October of last year.
If that's true, then they said they don't lower your rates back to the
original rates.

However .... 

I looked up on Zillow a house for sale in the nearby area of the kid and
called Comcast as a new owner of that house, giving them a bogus phone
number at that address and they told me that the house I chose hasn't had
Internet for two years (lucky me). 

Then they gave me an *introductory rate*, which was *lower* (by a lot!)
than the rate they had just told us they couldn't give us.

I wrote *everything* down (that's where an automatic call recorder excels,
because you can play back all their crazy package names!) and then we
called back on the original Comcast account and argued with them until they
gave us *those* introductory rates.

So, yeah, it took *multiple* phone calls, where Comcast effectively lied to
us (where is Rod Speed when I need him to proclaim a lie?) but we got the
"introductory rate".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58626

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 04:49 +0000
Message-ID<nr80gq$1npn$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58606
On 13 Sep 2016 02:08:39 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Easy enough to configure the router to use a different SSID for each
> band, then configure individual devices to connect to either one.

Folks may consider adding "optout" for Microsoft Windows 10, and "_nomap"
for Google.

Dunno if Apple respects these opt out keywords though...

Nobody seems to know the answer...
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3774886?tstart=0
 Q: Does Apple adhere to Google's _nomap router location optout? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58631

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-09-13 05:08 +0000
Message-ID<e3pftjF4unfU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#58626
On 2016-09-13, Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> wrote:
> On 13 Sep 2016 02:08:39 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Easy enough to configure the router to use a different SSID for each
>> band, then configure individual devices to connect to either one.
>
> Folks may consider adding "optout" for Microsoft Windows 10, and "_nomap"
> for Google.

Nah. Those of us who understand security implications of them have no
need or desire to try to hide or otherwise obfuscate them.

> Dunno if Apple respects these opt out keywords though...

In general, and to a much greater extent than both Google and Microsoft,
Apple respects the privacy of its customers enough not to bother doing
anything that would harm their privacy.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#58644

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 05:26 +0000
Message-ID<nr82ln$1q19$4@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58631
On 13 Sep 2016 05:08:03 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Nah. Those of us who understand security implications of them have no
> need or desire to try to hide or otherwise obfuscate them.

1. You do realize that Google's is a *public* database, right?

2. And that the db is updated every moment of every day, right?

3. Therefore, if someone drives by your house with an Android phone in
their pocket, not set up like mine is, and they drive by close enough to
pick up your WiFi signals, they automatically send your BSSID (aka your
unique MAC address) to Google's public database.

Given that, what happens, if you broadcast your SSID (e.g., if your phone
is a hotspot), then anyone in the world who knows your BSSID can tell if
you're at a particular home, if they happen to know the BSSID of that
particular home.

You do know this, right?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58648

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-09-13 05:30 +0000
Message-ID<e3ph71F4unfU10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#58644
On 2016-09-13, Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> wrote:
> On 13 Sep 2016 05:08:03 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Nah. Those of us who understand security implications of them have no
>> need or desire to try to hide or otherwise obfuscate them.
>
> 1. You do realize that Google's is a *public* database, right?
>
> 2. And that the db is updated every moment of every day, right?
>
> 3. Therefore, if someone drives by your house with an Android phone in
> their pocket, not set up like mine is, and they drive by close enough to
> pick up your WiFi signals, they automatically send your BSSID (aka your
> unique MAC address) to Google's public database.

So what? It's certainly not a problem for me.

> Given that, what happens, if you broadcast your SSID (e.g., if your phone
> is a hotspot), then anyone in the world who knows your BSSID can tell if
> you're at a particular home, if they happen to know the BSSID of that
> particular home.

Bullshit. The SSID doesn't give them any such information. You're
extremely confused.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#58650

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 05:42 +0000
Message-ID<nr83jm$1r6e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58648
On 13 Sep 2016 05:30:09 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> So what? It's certainly not a problem for me.

Fair enough.
>> Given that, what happens, if you broadcast your SSID (e.g., if your phone
>> is a hotspot), then anyone in the world who knows your BSSID can tell if
>> you're at a particular home, if they happen to know the BSSID of that
>> particular home.
> 
> Bullshit. The SSID doesn't give them any such information. You're
> extremely confused.

Google gets a *lot* more information than your SSID.
1. They get your GPS location.
2. They get your BSSID (which is your unique MAC address!)
NOTE: This is the address that is nearly impossible to change, not the one
that is trivial to clone!

They get more than that (e.g., they get your SSID) but those two are
unique.

The lookup is free and is an open public database updated constantly:
https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/geolocation/intro

Most of the parameters are optional, but essentially if you know the MAC
address of the person you are tracking, and you know the MAC address of the
location you want to check if they're nearby, then you just make up a
signal strength, and Voila!

You can geolocate anyone!

Here is a sample request with very many *optional* parameters:
{
 "homeMobileCountryCode": 310,
 "homeMobileNetworkCode": 260,
 "radioType": "gsm",
 "carrier": "T-Mobile",
 "cellTowers": [
  {
   "cellId": 39627456,
   "locationAreaCode": 40495,
   "mobileCountryCode": 310,
   "mobileNetworkCode": 260,
   "age": 0,
   "signalStrength": -95
  }
 ],
 "wifiAccessPoints": [
  {
   "macAddress": "01:23:45:67:89:AB",
   "signalStrength": 8,
   "age": 0,
   "signalToNoiseRatio": -65,
   "channel": 8
  },
  {
   "macAddress": "01:23:45:67:89:AC",
   "signalStrength": 4,
   "age": 0
  }
 ]
}

Here are the only mandatory parameters:
{
   "macAddress": "01:23:45:67:89:AB",
   "signalStrength": 8,
  },
  {
   "macAddress": "01:23:45:67:89:AC",
   "signalStrength": 8,
  }

That is, all you need are two real MAC addresses and one (fabricated)
signal strength, and you can find out if two people are in the same
location at any point in time from anywhere in the world.

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#58652

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-09-13 01:49 -0400
Message-ID<130920160149411264%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#58650
In article <nr83jm$1r6e$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Horace Algier
<horatio@horatio.net> wrote:

> >> Given that, what happens, if you broadcast your SSID (e.g., if your phone
> >> is a hotspot), then anyone in the world who knows your BSSID can tell if
> >> you're at a particular home, if they happen to know the BSSID of that
> >> particular home.
> > 
> > Bullshit. The SSID doesn't give them any such information. You're
> > extremely confused.
> 
> Google gets a *lot* more information than your SSID.
> 1. They get your GPS location.
> 2. They get your BSSID (which is your unique MAC address!)

without that, location would not work as well.

> NOTE: This is the address that is nearly impossible to change, not the one
> that is trivial to clone!

changing a mac address is not that hard.

> They get more than that (e.g., they get your SSID) but those two are
> unique.
> 
> The lookup is free and is an open public database updated constantly:
> https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/geolocation/intro
> 
> Most of the parameters are optional, but essentially if you know the MAC
> address of the person you are tracking, and you know the MAC address of the
> location you want to check if they're nearby, then you just make up a
> signal strength, and Voila!
> 
> You can geolocate anyone!

no.

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#58656

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 06:10 +0000
Message-ID<nr8582$1t68$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58652
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 01:49:41 -0400, nospam wrote:

> changing a mac address is not that hard.

This one is.
It's not the "clone" MAC address.
It's on the other side of the radio.

You have to desolder the chip.
Who is gonna do that?

Jeff Liebermann explained the entire thing in gory detail on
alt.intenet.wireless in the past.

Suffice to summarize that it's not easy to change the BSSID that Google and
WiGLe save to their public databases.

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#58658

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-09-13 02:19 -0400
Message-ID<130920160219389054%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#58656
In article <nr8582$1t68$3@gioia.aioe.org>, Horace Algier
<horatio@horatio.net> wrote:

> Suffice to summarize that it's not easy to change the BSSID that Google and
> WiGLe save to their public databases.

who cares

having that database is a *good thing*.

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#58676

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
Message-ID<nrakck$g7j$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58658
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 02:19:38 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> Suffice to summarize that it's not easy to change the BSSID that Google and
>> WiGLe save to their public databases.
> 
> who cares
> 
> having that database is a *good thing*.

A friend asked me to consider working with him to write a program to track
spouses. I don't have the skills, so I declined, but, under FriendDA, we
discussed...

The program would be used by spouse 1.
Spouse 1 would enter the phone MAC address of spouse 2.
Spouse 1 would also enter the MAC address(es) of suspected lovers' homes
which spouse 1 would get by driving by the suspected homes.
Lastly, spouse 1 would ensure the spouse 2 was broadcasting the SSID.

That's it for what Spouse 1 has to do.

Any lookup to the Google database will tell spouse 1 "if" and "when" spouse
2 was at location1, or location2, or location3, etc.

These locations can be *any* MAC address, e.g., 
location1 = MAC address of starbucks on 100 main street
location2 = MAC address of spouse2's boss
location3 = MAC address of pretty neighbor across town
etc.

This would be *easy* to write for anyone who can code, since the Google
public API only needs three things:
1. Two MAC addresses
2. A (fabricated is fine) signal strength

That's all it needs.

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#58653

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-09-13 05:51 +0000
Message-ID<e3pie4F4unfU12@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#58650
On 2016-09-13, Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> wrote:
>
> You can geolocate anyone!

Anyone who drives by my home will see 30+ routers in the area -
all of which are geographically located in this same area. Big fucking
deal.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58655

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 06:10 +0000
Message-ID<nr8580$1t68$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58653
On 13 Sep 2016 05:51:00 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Anyone who drives by my home will see 30+ routers in the area -
> all of which are geographically located in this same area. Big fucking
> deal.

You can even geolocate car beacons.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58657

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-09-13 06:14 +0000
Message-ID<e3pjqtF6a90U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#58655
On 2016-09-13, Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> wrote:
> On 13 Sep 2016 05:51:00 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Anyone who drives by my home will see 30+ routers in the area -
>> all of which are geographically located in this same area. Big fucking
>> deal.
>
> You can even geolocate car beacons.

*YAWN*

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58675

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-14 04:40 +0000
Message-ID<nrakc5$g7j$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58650
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 23:48:32 -0700, AL wrote:

>> Google gets a *lot* more information than your SSID.
>> 1. They get your GPS location.
> 
> Since Google already has my name, address, and credit card number it may 
> be a bit late to worry about this, huh.

Well, your wife also has those things, but she can *track* your whereabouts
using the free public API, even if you told her you were working late at
the office.

All she needs to track you is ... 
a. Your MAC address
b. The MAC address at your girlfriend's house
c. A fake signal strength reading

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58651

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-09-13 01:49 -0400
Message-ID<130920160149391170%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#58644
In article <nr82ln$1q19$4@gioia.aioe.org>, Horace Algier
<horatio@horatio.net> wrote:

> 
> > Nah. Those of us who understand security implications of them have no
> > need or desire to try to hide or otherwise obfuscate them.
> 
> 1. You do realize that Google's is a *public* database, right?

which is good, so everyone benefits.

> 2. And that the db is updated every moment of every day, right?

no it isn't.

> 3. Therefore, if someone drives by your house with an Android phone in
> their pocket, not set up like mine is, and they drive by close enough to
> pick up your WiFi signals, they automatically send your BSSID (aka your
> unique MAC address) to Google's public database.

that's how the wifi location database is populated, which *helps*
determine location *without* needing power-hungry gps or falling back
to cellular which is not very accurate.

> Given that, what happens, if you broadcast your SSID (e.g., if your phone
> is a hotspot), then anyone in the world who knows your BSSID can tell if
> you're at a particular home, if they happen to know the BSSID of that
> particular home.

no they can't.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58654

FromHorace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Date2016-09-13 06:10 +0000
Message-ID<nr857u$1t68$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#58651
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 01:49:39 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> Given that, what happens, if you broadcast your SSID (e.g., if your phone
>> is a hotspot), then anyone in the world who knows your BSSID can tell if
>> you're at a particular home, if they happen to know the BSSID of that
>> particular home.
> 
> no they can't.

Tell me that it's not true that all you need is:
1. MAC ADDRESS #1
2. MAC ADDRESS #2
3. WiFi Signal Strength

And Google will tell you if those two are next to each other.
C'mon. 

Tell me it can't be done with just that information.

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