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What if these two men had formed a company together?

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  What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 07:04 -0700
    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-06-13 10:13 -0400
      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 07:43 -0700
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-13 16:39 -0500
          Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 15:09 -0700
            Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-13 19:00 -0500
              Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-13 20:11 -0400
                Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-06-13 20:26 -0400
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-13 20:29 -0400
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-06-14 13:49 +1200
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 20:58 -0700
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-06-14 12:38 +0000
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-06-14 08:40 -0400
                Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-06-14 08:39 -0400
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-06-14 14:26 +0000
                    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-06-14 10:31 -0400
              Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 20:57 -0700
                Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 21:11 -0700
          Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-13 18:16 -0400
            Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-13 19:52 -0500
              Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-13 20:55 -0400
                Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-13 21:01 -0500
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-13 23:03 -0400
                    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-14 20:40 -0500
                      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-14 23:05 -0400
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-06-14 00:32 -0400
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-06-14 08:36 -0400
          Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-14 06:17 -0700
            Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-06-14 09:43 -0400
          Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-14 12:36 -0400
      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Otto Pylot <otto@bogus.address.com> - 2015-06-13 08:47 -0700
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? tommyrot@privacy.com (Tom Raider) - 2015-06-13 17:11 +0100
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? "Ed H." <fake@notreal.net> - 2015-06-13 15:38 -0500
          Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-13 18:59 -0500
            Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-06-14 12:44 +1200
              Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-06-14 08:44 -0400
                Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-06-15 12:52 +1200
              Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-14 18:08 -0500
                Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-14 19:35 -0400
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-14 21:24 -0500
                    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-14 23:05 -0400
                    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-06-15 19:07 +1200
                      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-15 10:08 -0500
                Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-06-15 13:17 +1200
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-14 21:55 -0500
                  Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-14 23:05 -0400
                    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-06-16 11:25 +1200
                      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-15 21:20 -0400
                      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-06-16 09:25 +0100
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-06-14 10:20 +1200
      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-06-13 14:26 -0400
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 13:59 -0700
        Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-06-13 18:59 -0500
          Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-06-14 12:10 -0400
    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-06-13 13:41 -0400
      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-06-13 13:58 -0700
    Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-14 05:22 +1000
      Re: What if these two men had formed a company together? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-06-14 05:00 -0600

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#48921 — What if these two men had formed a company together?

I wonder what the result would have been.

-- Michelle

<http://www.filipiknow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Steve-Jobs-and-Bil
l-Gates.jpg>

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#48922

On 2015-06-13 10:04, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> I wonder what the result would have been.
>
> -- Michelle
>
> <http://www.filipiknow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Steve-Jobs-and-Bil
> l-Gates.jpg>

Get rid of Thoth.  It doesn't post links correctly.

As to the notion of those two forming a co. together I refer you to Dr. 
Hawkings et al.

In one of those universes ApplesoftComputers is the most valuable 
publicly traded company in the world and Linux does not exist and IBM is 
a (small) division of the co. that will soon be merged with Samsung 
(another small division).

In another, Microfruit, is a once famous company that fractured along 
many lines.  It still makes a lot of money but is held in as much esteem 
in the technology world as, say, AOL.

In yet another, RedmondFace Technologies is one of the most valuable 
companies in the world that is owned by Facebook and Boeing in a JV 
arrangement.  They get a lot of government contracts to work on 
classified projects.

...

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#48923

In article <c9ydncJR89MUp-HInZ2dnUU7-KOdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> > <http://www.filipiknow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Steve-Jobs-and-Bil
> > l-Gates.jpg>
> 
> Get rid of Thoth.  It doesn't post links correctly.

How so?

If I could find another NewsWatcher based browser, I'd try it, but thus
far, I haven't seen any other newsgroup app with an interface that I
like.

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#48933

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On Saturday, 13 June 2015 07:43 -0700, 
 in article <130620150743436963%michelle@michelle.org>, 
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <c9ydncJR89MUp-HInZ2dnUU7-KOdnZ2d@giganews.com>, 
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

>>> <http://www.filipiknow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Steve-Jobs-and-Bil
>>> l-Gates.jpg>

>> Get rid of Thoth.  It doesn't post links correctly.

> How so?

> If I could find another NewsWatcher based browser, I'd try it, but 
> thus far, I haven't seen any other newsgroup app with an interface 
> that I like.

Michelle, you have Thoth set to automatically wrap text.  Thoth's 
default like wrap is at seventy two columns.  When you post an URL 
longer than seventy two characters, Thoth will automatically wrap the 
line following the seventy second character in an unbroken row.

Open your Thoth Preferences and go to the Messages pane; untick Wrap 
Messages.  (While you're there, you might want to untick Smart Quoted 
Text Editing.  Thoth is dderived from a Classic Mac application, 
which was written to use Mac Western text encoding, then translate 
it to something else.)

Knowing you really do want to wrap text, when you post, select the 
text you want wrapped, and use the Wrap option under the Edit menu in 
Thoth, to do so..

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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#48934

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1506131601160.43505@mako.ath.cx>, David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Michelle, you have Thoth set to automatically wrap text.

I just unchecked that.

> While you're there, you might want to untick Smart Quoted Text Editing.

Why, what does that preference do?

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#48940

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On Saturday, 13 June 2015 15:09 -0700, 
 in article <130620151509070477%michelle@michelle.org>, 
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1506131601160.43505@mako.ath.cx>, 
>  David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> Michelle, you have Thoth set to automatically wrap text.

> I just unchecked that.

Great.  Now you'll have to remember to manually line wrap text, 
_before_ you hit send, as lines will no longer wrap automatically.  
Just make certain you're not wrapping things like long URLs or Usenet 
Path statements, if you want them to passed as long lines.

>> While you're there, you might want to untick Smart Quoted Text 
>> Editing.

> Why, what does that preference do?

It's likely to place curly quotes at the beginning and end of quoted 
text.  While such usage is common when using word processing 
applications, you're posting to Usenet, a text based network, based on 
US-ASCII text.  As demonsrated with your copy and pasted apostrophe's, 
Thoth will break these in the same way.  While Thoth users won't 
notice anything, the same translation errors, from Mac OS Roman, will 
exist.

When I was still using Brian's YA-NewsWatcher, I began editing in 
BBEdit, so I could 'ASCIIfy' text, prior to posting, in order to avoid 
this error issues.  In recent BBEdit releases, the 'ASCIIfy' tool has 
been removed, but the Zap Gremlins tool, under the Text menu of 
BBEdit or TextWrangler can do the same.

I did the same, when I posted using MT-NewsWatcher.  While I'd tried 
using Thoth, prior to Mavericks introduction, it reminded me too much 
of YA-NewsWatcher, from which it was Carbonized.  I continued using 
MT-NewsWatcher, as my primary news reader, but stopped posting with it 
long before the removal of Rosetta.

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 When it comes down to it, 'smart' quotes can be really dumb in plain 
 text.

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#48941

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1506131828010.43505@mako.ath.cx>, David
Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >> Michelle, you have Thoth set to automatically wrap text.
> 
> > I just unchecked that.
> 
> Great.  Now you'll have to remember to manually line wrap text, 
> _before_ you hit send, as lines will no longer wrap automatically.  
> Just make certain you're not wrapping things like long URLs or Usenet 
> Path statements, if you want them to passed as long lines.

that's worse.

there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).

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#48942

On 15-06-13 20:11, nospam wrote:

> there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
> figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).

Not all apps suppport this. Mozilla/Thunderbird doesn't.

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#48943

In article <557cca25$0$42936$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
> > figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).
> 
> Not all apps suppport this. Mozilla/Thunderbird doesn't.

then they're broken.

<> is in an rfc.

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#48947

In article <557cca25$0$42936$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-06-13 20:11, nospam wrote:
> > 
> > there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
> > figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).
> 
> Not all apps suppport this. Mozilla/Thunderbird doesn't.

Then those users need to get a proper newsreader application ... or
simply fix the URLs they want to visit manually, it's not as if it's
hugely difficult.

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#48951

In article <557cca25$0$42936$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-06-13 20:11, nospam wrote:
> 
> > there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
> > figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).
> 
> Not all apps suppport this. Mozilla/Thunderbird doesn't.
> 
Those apps do not adhere to de facto standards in this situation.

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#48956

On 2015-06-14, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-06-13 20:11, nospam wrote:
>
>> there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
>> figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).
>
> Not all apps suppport this. Mozilla/Thunderbird doesn't.

Yes it does. Just tried it on FF 38.0.1 on OS X 10.9.5.


-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 19th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3181
                  I don't have an attitude problem.
    If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

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#48958

On 2015-06-13 20:26, JF Mezei wrote:
> On 15-06-13 20:11, nospam wrote:
>
>> there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
>> figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).
>
> Not all apps suppport this. Mozilla/Thunderbird doesn't.

In fact it does but there seem to be 'break' cases where it fails due to 
bug or design.

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#48957

On 2015-06-13 20:11, nospam wrote:
> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1506131828010.43505@mako.ath.cx>, David
> Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Michelle, you have Thoth set to automatically wrap text.
>>
>>> I just unchecked that.
>>
>> Great.  Now you'll have to remember to manually line wrap text,
>> _before_ you hit send, as lines will no longer wrap automatically.
>> Just make certain you're not wrapping things like long URLs or Usenet
>> Path statements, if you want them to passed as long lines.
>
> that's worse.
>
> there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
> figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).

Not consistently with Thunderbird.  It often works, but there are cases 
it seems not.

The sourcing client should not break lines at all of a continuous piece 
of text (like a URL).  The reading client can break it (to appearance) 
while leaving the link intact.

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#48963

On 2015-06-14, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-06-13 20:11, nospam wrote:
>> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1506131828010.43505@mako.ath.cx>, David
>> Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Michelle, you have Thoth set to automatically wrap text.
>>>
>>>> I just unchecked that.
>>>
>>> Great.  Now you'll have to remember to manually line wrap text,
>>> _before_ you hit send, as lines will no longer wrap automatically.
>>> Just make certain you're not wrapping things like long URLs or Usenet
>>> Path statements, if you want them to passed as long lines.
>>
>> that's worse.
>>
>> there is nothing wrong with wrapped urls. just put them in <> and apps
>> figure it out and strip embedded line breaks (if any).
>
> Not consistently with Thunderbird.  It often works, but there are cases 
> it seems not.

slrn has problems too, but it's not like fixing the URL manually is all
that hard. It could be better, but it's just not a big issue for me.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#48964

On 2015-06-14 10:26, Jolly Roger wrote:
> slrn has problems too, but it's not like fixing the URL manually is all
> that hard. It could be better, but it's just not a big issue for me.

Me neither.  Just in a shit disturbing mood that day.

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#48950

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1506131828010.43505@mako.ath.cx>, David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >> While you're there, you might want to untick Smart Quoted Text 
> >> Editing.
> 
> > Why, what does that preference do?
> 
> It's likely to place curly quotes at the beginning and end of quoted 
> text.

Not that I can see; when I quote text, it just puts "> " in front of it.  When I type a quotation mark, it is not curly quotes.

Oh, I deliberately did not manually wrap the previous paragraph, just to see how it is displayed when I receive it.  Same for this paragraph.

-- Michelle

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#48952

In article <130620152057546118%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner
<michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > >> While you're there, you might want to untick Smart Quoted Text
> > >> Editing.
> > 
> > > Why, what does that preference do?
> > 
> > It's likely to place curly quotes at the beginning and end of
> > quoted text.
> 
> Not that I can see; when I quote text, it just puts "> " in front of
> it.  When I type a quotation mark, it is not curly quotes.
> 
> Oh, I deliberately did not manually wrap the previous paragraph, just
> to see how it is displayed when I receive it.  Same for this
> paragraph.

They are visually wrapped, but when I quote them in a reply, they are
not wrapped.  So I wrapped them in this reply.

Oh, and I figured out what "Smart Quoted Text Editing" is.  If I type a
return in quoted text, it keeps the new line as quoted text.  Very
useful.

Oh, and I turned auto-wrap back on.  No reason to keep it off.

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#48935

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1506131601160.43505@mako.ath.cx>, David
Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >>> <http://www.filipiknow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Steve-Jobs-and-Bil
> >>> l-Gates.jpg>
> 
> >> Get rid of Thoth.  It doesn't post links correctly.
> 
> > How so?
> 
> > If I could find another NewsWatcher based browser, I'd try it, but 
> > thus far, I haven't seen any other newsgroup app with an interface 
> > that I like.
> 
> Michelle, you have Thoth set to automatically wrap text.  Thoth's 
> default like wrap is at seventy two columns.  When you post an URL 
> longer than seventy two characters, Thoth will automatically wrap the 
> line following the seventy second character in an unbroken row.

it does't matter if a url wraps or breaks on each line, especially if
it's delimited with <>. 

what thoth does wrong is break a url when quoting when it spans more
than one line, not when originally posting the url, but that makes very
little difference since the url is in the referenced post and readers
probably already clicked it when it was originally posted.

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#48945

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On Saturday, 13 June 2015 18:16 -0400, 
 in article <130620151816010760%nospam@nospam.invalid>, 
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> it does't matter if a url wraps or breaks on each line, especially 
> if it's delimited with <>.

Again, this is something you've inanely repeated too often.  Please 
provide references and documentation to support your claim.

> what thoth does wrong is break a url when quoting when it spans more 
> than one line, not when originally posting the url, but that makes 
> very little difference since the url is in the referenced post and 
> readers probably already clicked it when it was originally posted.

Show me.

It may not make any difference to Thoth users, but it sure does for 
anyone who isn't using Thoth.  As I've suggested previously, see if 
clicking the URL in Michelle's original article in this thread, 
<news:130620150704466708%michelle@michelle.org>, will load properly in 
whatever you're default GUI web browser might be, when using any user 
agent other than Thoth or the Google news2web2news tool.  Please 
report your results here.

That the broken URL still works in Thoth, when leading quote 
indicators have been added, is purely a Thothism.

Thus far, I've made exactly two test posts, using Thoth, since its 
initial release, although it's among my login items.  There are still 
things I can easily accomplish with it, which have nothing to due with 
posting or even reading network news.  (Performing XPAT queries across 
multiple newsgroups is an example.  Ray's running INN 2.6.0 (rc1 
verion), which supports XPAT.  Give it a try.)

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 "He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and
  island are the laws of nature."    - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

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