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Groups > comp.mobile.ipad > #46692 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-03-20 17:03 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-03-22 13:10 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 173 — 17 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.mobile.ipad
Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 17:03 -0700
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-20 20:28 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:38 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 13:55 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 20:59 -0700
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 16:51 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 07:53 -0700
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:19 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:57 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:06 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:11 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:51 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 15:10 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 06:24 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:49 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 21:10 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:18 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 10:57 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 15:01 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 16:20 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 12:38 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 17:18 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:55 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:04 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:11 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:16 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:29 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:40 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:32 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 15:08 -0700
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:02 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:46 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:19 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 09:52 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:12 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:00 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 18:58 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:32 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:20 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:47 -0500
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:48 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:50 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:54 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:31 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:20 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:53 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 19:05 +0000
Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-03-24 10:20 -0700
Re: Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-24 19:06 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:35 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:22 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 12:17 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:03 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:44 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 21:57 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:14 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 13:54 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:14 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:38 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:54 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 15:09 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 06:24 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 17:15 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:00 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:06 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 11:24 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:43 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:33 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:26 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:28 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:06 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:40 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:12 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:23 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 21:26 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:46 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:52 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:22 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:49 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:25 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:33 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 14:08 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 14:09 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 18:33 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:49 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:37 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:15 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:43 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:18 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:30 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:44 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:04 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:16 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:33 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:51 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:59 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:07 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 16:36 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 08:37 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 21:45 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-24 10:51 +1300
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 18:43 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 22:56 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 10:29 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:36 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-24 01:47 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 19:44 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-24 15:04 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:35 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:02 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:05 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:19 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 00:36 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:18 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:36 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:12 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:30 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:24 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:39 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-22 20:05 -0700
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 23:46 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:00 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:52 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 00:10 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:58 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:41 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:52 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:48 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:33 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:13 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:59 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies News <News@Group.Post> - 2015-03-23 13:14 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 01:39 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 00:52 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:11 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:44 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 06:22 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:40 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:17 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:28 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:47 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:56 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:09 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 19:14 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:47 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 20:40 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:49 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:38 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:38 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:23 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:13 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:30 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:11 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:43 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:36 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:31 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:24 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:04 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:25 +1100
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:15 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:40 +0000
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:02 -0400
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-21 11:43 -0500
Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:10 +0000
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 13:54 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f01cf$0$58829$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46775 |
On 15-03-22 09:14, Jolly Roger wrote: > Nope. The cards in question have already been stolen, but were not > deactivated by banks. The banks already worked with Apple to handle such > cards by categorizing them as "Yellow Path". There is no debate that Apple is not at fault if a bank agrees to activate a stolen card on Apple Pay. However, for a card that is not YET declared stolen, having full customer details sent in with card activation request would allow a bank to verify that it is the rightful owner automatically instead of having to do its own steps to contact customer to verify identity. Yes it is the bank's fault if it accepts to activate a card with only card number , name ane expiration. However, that system was designed by Apple who brags about how secure Apple Pay is. Yet, the activation process, as designed by Apple is very insecure and incomplete and has to be supplememted by a extra bank process to verify identity when that could have been embedded into the Passport app. So Apple Pay is like a Pinto. You can decide to not drive one because it is insecure. You can decide to implement your own extra security such as ensuring nobody drives in your back to cause gas tank to explode, or you can choose to ride on GM's marketing that the Pinto is safe and ignore the high risk of explosion. Yeah, banks who did not supplement Apple's system have only themselves to blame for explosion in fraud rates. But the fact remains that the activation process, as designed by Apple, is inadequate. I suspect this will get fixed soon, if not done already.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 05:14 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <cn8f55F1d2iU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46792 |
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote > Jolly Roger wrote >> Nope. The cards in question have already been stolen, but were >> not deactivated by banks. The banks already worked with Apple >> to handle such cards by categorizing them as "Yellow Path". > There is no debate that Apple is not at fault if a bank agrees to > activate a stolen card on Apple Pay. > However, for a card that is not YET declared stolen, having full > customer details sent in with card activation request would allow > a bank to verify that it is the rightful owner automatically instead > of having to do its own steps to contact customer to verify identity. But you don’t know that there was a spike in fraud with those cards And clearly Apple isn't going to make Passport demand all that information from the customer adding any card to ApplePay and few customers would have anything to do with ApplePay even if Apple was that stupid. > Yes it is the bank's fault if it accepts to activate a > card with only card number , name ane expiration. They always get more than just that data. > However, that system was designed by Apple > who brags about how secure Apple Pay is. They correctly state how much more secure ApplePay is than mag stripe cards and chip and pin cards too because you don’t need to use a pin and so fools wont write it where it can be stolen along with the card or even monstered from the customer with a gun to their head literally. > Yet, the activation process, as designed > by Apple is very insecure and incomplete That is just plain wrong. The bank is free to tell the customer when the card has been added to ApplePay and can do that very cheaply indeed and that is very secure indeed. > and has to be supplememted by a extra bank process to verify identity No it does not. > when that could have been embedded into the Passport app. In which case fuck all would use it. > So Apple Pay is like a Pinto. And even sillier analogy than you usually manage. > You can decide to not drive one because it is insecure. ApplePay is in fact MUCH more secure than anything else, essentially because no one else has your fingerprint. And you risk nothing because even if someone steal your card details and add it to their own ApplePay, that's the bank's problem, not yours. > You can decide to implement your own extra security You don’t need to with ApplePay, that extra security comes with it. > such as ensuring nobody drives in your back to cause gas tank to explode, Not possible with ApplePay. > or you can choose to ride on GM's marketing that the > Pinto is safe and ignore the high risk of explosion. There is no high risk of explosion with ApplePay for the customer. > Yeah, banks who did not supplement Apple's system have only > themselves to blame for explosion in fraud rates. But the fact remains > that the activation process, as designed by Apple, is inadequate. There is no viable alternative. > I suspect this will get fixed soon, if not done already. Not in the way you want to see it won't be, you watch.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 14:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f0c0b$0$56387$c3e8da3$38634283@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46795 |
On 15-03-22 14:14, Rod Speed wrote: > And clearly Apple isn't going to make Passport demand > all that information from the customer adding any card > to ApplePay and few customers would have anything > to do with ApplePay even if Apple was that stupid. Then the system remains insecure and requires bank contact customers to obtain information that Apple is unwilling to collect on their behalf. This adds costs to banks for every card activation that could have been done without human intervention if all the info was supplied by phone user to authenticate him/herself. In the case of using the cards stored in Itunes, Apple could simply present a dialogue with the info already all written in and ask user to confirm sending it to bank. For other cards, you enter that info (or Apple could present the info from Itunes account and give chance to correct it). It can be simple. Though not as flitzy as just taking picture of a card. >> Yes it is the bank's fault if it accepts to activate a >> card with only card number , name ane expiration. > > They always get more than just that data. Based on the Apple web page on Apple Pay, it isn't obvious any additional infortion is always sent. Only when the card used in Itunes account is activated. > They correctly state how much more secure > ApplePay is than mag stripe cards and chip > and pin cards too because you don’t need > to use a pin Statistics show otherwise. And that is because of the card activation process being very weak. BTW, what happens if you have wet or greasy fingers. Can you then enter you phone's PIN instead of fingerprint ? Or are you unable to use phone to make purchase ? > That is just plain wrong. The bank is free to tell the > customer when the card has been added to ApplePay You are assuming the bank has means to contact 100% of customers. In many cases, they only have phone number at home. Don't assume they can SMS , email 100% of their customers. > ApplePay is in fact MUCH more secure than anything else, > essentially because no one else has your fingerprint. But anyone can load your card on their phone and then use THEIR fingerprints instead of yours. It is rthe activation process which is weak, not the actual transaction.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 05:54 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <cn8hgmF220qU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46797 |
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote > Rod Speed wrote >> And clearly Apple isn't going to make Passport demand >> all that information from the customer adding any card >> to ApplePay and few customers would have anything >> to do with ApplePay even if Apple was that stupid. > Then the system remains insecure No it does not. The bank is free to tell the card holder very cheaply indeed that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. > and requires bank contact customers to obtain information > that Apple is unwilling to collect on their behalf. No it does not. The bank is free to tell the card holder very cheaply indeed that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. > This adds costs to banks for every card activation Only peanuts when the bank is free to tell the card holder very cheaply indeed that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. > that could have been done without human intervention if all the > info was supplied by phone user to authenticate him/herself. The bank is free to tell the card holder very cheaply indeed without any human intervention at all that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. There doesn’t even need to be any human involved in cancelling the card, the card holder can just replay to the SMS for peanuts and have the card cancelled auto. > In the case of using the cards stored in Itunes, Apple > could simply present a dialogue with the info already > all written in and ask user to confirm sending it to bank. In fact Apple just sends it without showing it to the customer first. > For other cards, you enter that info No thanks. I prefer that the bank tells the card holder very cheaply indeed that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. > (or Apple could present the info from Itunes > account and give chance to correct it). MUCH more farting around than just taking a photo of the card. > It can be simple. Nothing like as simple as taking a photo of the card. > Though not as flitzy as just taking picture of a card. Nothing flits about it. >>> Yes it is the bank's fault if it accepts to activate a >>> card with only card number , name ane expiration. >> They always get more than just that data. > Based on the Apple web page on Apple Pay, it isn't > obvious any additional infortion is always sent. It is anyway. > Only when the card used in Itunes account is activated. Wrong. >> They correctly state how much more secure ApplePay >> is than mag stripe cards and chip and pin cards too >> because you don’t need to use a pin > Statistics show otherwise. Like hell they do with the actual transactions. > And that is because of the card activation process being very weak. Nothing weak about the bank being free to tell the card holder very cheaply indeed that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. > BTW, what happens if you have wet or greasy fingers. Can > you then enter you phone's PIN instead of fingerprint ? Yes. But you wont be writing that PIN on a card in your wallet, because you most likely wont even have a wallet with you once ApplePay gets going. > Or are you unable to use phone to make purchase ? No. >> That is just plain wrong. The bank is free to tell the >> customer when the card has been added to ApplePay > You are assuming the bank has means > to contact 100% of customers. Of course they do. Or the ones that aren't actually dead etc anyway. And even with those, bet they channel Jobs. > In many cases, they only have phone number at home. Still perfectly possible to tell them that way with an automated system that uses no humans at all. > Don't assume they can SMS , email 100% of their customers. Never assumed anything of the sort. They can even get real radical and use snail mail as well as the other alternatives to phone numbers as well. >> ApplePay is in fact MUCH more secure than anything else, >> essentially because no one else has your fingerprint. > But anyone can load your card on their phone > and then use THEIR fingerprints instead of yours. And the bank is free to tell the card holder very cheaply indeed that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. > It is rthe activation process which is weak, Its not weak at all, the bank is free to tell the card holder very cheaply indeed that the card has been added to ApplePay so the card holder can have the card cancelled if it was someone else that did that. > not the actual transaction.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 15:09 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f1384$0$47027$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46798 |
On 15-03-22 14:54, Rod Speed wrote: > Yes. But you wont be writing that PIN on a card in your wallet, > because you most likely wont even have a wallet with you once > ApplePay gets going. NFC transactions are limited to betwene $50 and $100 in Canada. Above that, you have to insert real card and enter pin. So you still need to carry a real wallet with real credit card. The USA is still equipooped to handle signatures, so for high transactions, they can accept the iPhone AND signature. Canada is no longer equipped for signatures so when transaction is above NFC limit, chip/pin is required.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 06:24 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <cn8j9kF2hq0U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46799 |
"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message news:550f1384$0$47027$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com... > On 15-03-22 14:54, Rod Speed wrote: > >> Yes. But you wont be writing that PIN on a card in your wallet, >> because you most likely wont even have a wallet with you once >> ApplePay gets going. > NFC transactions are limited to betwene $50 and $100 in Canada. > Above that, you have to insert real card and enter pin. So you still > need to carry a real wallet with real credit card. More fool Canada. Makes a lot more sense to let you supply the PIN without using the physical card. > The USA is still equipooped to handle signatures, so for high > transactions, they can accept the iPhone AND signature. Canada is no > longer equipped for signatures so when transaction is above NFC limit, > chip/pin is required. Still doesn’t need the physical card or the wallet.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 17:15 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f30de$0$42953$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46800 |
On 15-03-22 15:24, Rod Speed wrote: > More fool Canada. Makes a lot more sense to let > you supply the PIN without using the physical card. The card contains the encryption key and processor. The terminal sends info on merchant and transaction amount to the card, the card encrupts the transaction with credit card number and hands it to terminal for transmission to bank. (this is why you have to leave card in terminal during transaction). This way, the merchant's terminal does not see the credit card number so it can't be skimmed. Without a card inserted into the terminal, there is no secure way for you to enter the PIN and have it encrypted to send to bank. And note that with CHIP/PIN, the password is validated locally by the card.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 09:00 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <cn8sdpF4uneU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46803 |
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote > Rod Speed wrote >> More fool Canada. Makes a lot more sense to let >> you supply the PIN without using the physical card. > The card contains the encryption key and processor. ApplePay has a lot more than that. > The terminal sends info on merchant and transaction amount > to the card, the card encrupts the transaction with credit card > number and hands it to terminal for transmission to bank. (this > is why you have to leave card in terminal during transaction). ApplePay does a lot more than that. > This way, the merchant's terminal does not see > the credit card number so it can't be skimmed. Just as true of ApplePay. > Without a card inserted into the terminal, there is no secure way > for you to enter the PIN and have it encrypted to send to bank. BULLSHIT with an idevice. > And note that with CHIP/PIN, the password > is validated locally by the card. Just as true of ApplePay.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 20:06 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f5908$0$44510$c3e8da3$66d3cc2f@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46804 |
On 15-03-22 18:00, Rod Speed wrote: >> The card contains the encryption key and processor. > > ApplePay has a lot more than that. Apple Pay (once activated) functions more or less like a CHIP/PIN card from the point of view of merchant/terminal. An encrypted blob is sent and authorization received. But when you exceed the NFC limit, this is where the physical card comes into play because you insert the phsyical card in the reader for encrypted link to the credit card processor with PIN validation done by the card. > ApplePay does a lot more than that. for a transaction, ApplePay doesn't do much more if any. It just does a transaction. There is the different issue of the work done at the bank to convert the temporary card number into the real one. But this isn't done by Apple Pay, it is done by the bank or credit card processor. Apple Pay on the iPhone can also request expiration of current card and issuance of a new temporary number. But this is outside of the actual transaction. >> Without a card inserted into the terminal, there is no secure way >> for you to enter the PIN and have it encrypted to send to bank. > > BULLSHIT with an idevice. Sorry. there is no secure way to enter a PIN and validate it without a card inserted into the reader. You can't enter a PIN and validate it if there isn't a card in the reader. NFC doesn't do that. >> And note that with CHIP/PIN, the password >> is validated locally by the card. > > Just as true of ApplePay. There is no PIN involved in NFC transactions.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 11:24 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <cn94rkF7088U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46813 |
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote > Rod Speed wrote >>> The card contains the encryption key and processor. >> ApplePay has a lot more than that. > Apple Pay (once activated) functions more or less like a > CHIP/PIN card from the point of view of merchant/terminal. > An encrypted blob is sent and authorization received. So there isn't any point in stupidly demanding that the physical card itself must be used instead of applepay for transactions over $50 or $100, it makes much more sense to allow the user to enter the PIN into the iDevice instead. > But when you exceed the NFC limit, this is where the physical > card comes into play because you insert the phsyical card in > the reader for encrypted link to the credit card processor > with PIN validation done by the card. No reason why it can't be done by the idevice. >> ApplePay does a lot more than that. > for a transaction, ApplePay doesn't do much > more if any. It just does a transaction. It was stupid to cut the quoting back so hard so that it isn't possible to see what that comment was about. > There is the different issue of the work done at the bank to convert > the temporary card number into the real one. But this isn't done by > Apple Pay, it is done by the bank or credit card processor. Irrelevant to what is being discussed, whether it makes any sense to be requiring the user to shove the physical card into the terminal with transactions that are more than $50 or $100. > Apple Pay on the iPhone can also request expiration > of current card and issuance of a new temporary > number. But this is outside of the actual transaction. Irrelevant to what is being discussed, whether it makes any sense to be requiring the user to shove the physical card into the terminal with transactions that are more than $50 or $100. >>> Without a card inserted into the terminal, there is no secure way >>> for you to enter the PIN and have it encrypted to send to bank. >> BULLSHIT with an idevice. > Sorry. there is no secure way to enter a PIN and > validate it without a card inserted into the reader. WRONG. > You can't enter a PIN and validate it if there > isn't a card in the reader. NFC doesn't do that. No reason why it can't. >>> And note that with CHIP/PIN, the password >>> is validated locally by the card. >> Just as true of ApplePay. > There is no PIN involved in NFC transactions. There can be for transactions above a specified amount.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f6818$0$1511$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46816 |
On 15-03-22 20:24, Rod Speed wrote: > So there isn't any point in stupidly demanding that the > physical card itself must be used instead of applepay for > transactions over $50 or $100, it makes much more sense > to allow the user to enter the PIN into the iDevice instead. And how is the terminal supposed to know that a PIN was actually entered ? The software on the mobile could be hacked and simply respond "PIN enterred and validated" and the terminal has no way to know if this is true or not. Furthermore, because the phone could be compromised, if it were in constant NFC communications, and the terminal sent it "please check PIN XXXX", the phone could always respond with "PIN OK". And I am not sure the NFC communications allow for PIN checking. If they use the same protocol as when card is inserted, perhaps it would be possible, but you would have to hold phone next to NFC terminal while typing your PIN on the terminal with other hand. Not very convenient.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 12:43 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <cn99g7F80gmU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46824 |
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote > Rod Speed wrote >> So there isn't any point in stupidly demanding that the >> physical card itself must be used instead of applepay for >> transactions over $50 or $100, it makes much more sense >> to allow the user to enter the PIN into the iDevice instead. > And how is the terminal supposed to know that a PIN was actually entered ? Same way its done with the card in the terminal. > The software on the mobile could be hacked Its completely trivial to ensure that that hasn’t happened with iOS. > and simply respond "PIN enterred and validated" and > the terminal has no way to know if this is true or not. Wrong. > Furthermore, because the phone could be compromised, if it were in > constant NFC communications, and the terminal sent it "please check > PIN XXXX", the phone could always respond with "PIN OK". Nope, because its trivial to check if the phone has been hacked. > And I am not sure the NFC communications allow for PIN checking. Corse it does. > If they use the same protocol as when card > is inserted, perhaps it would be possible, No perhaps about it. > but you would have to hold phone next to NFC terminal > while typing your PIN on the terminal with other hand. Nope, just do that after the pin has been entered. > Not very convenient. Wrong.
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 02:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmguut8.v69.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #46799 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like: > On 15-03-22 14:54, Rod Speed wrote: >> Yes. But you wont be writing that PIN on a card in your wallet, >> because you most likely wont even have a wallet with you once >> ApplePay gets going. > NFC transactions are limited to betwene $50 and $100 in Canada. Above > that, you have to insert real card and enter pin. So you still need to > carry a real wallet with real credit card. > The USA is still equipooped to handle signatures, so for high > transactions, they can accept the iPhone AND signature. My "signature" for Apple Pay is a picture of the Apple logo. I've been asked for one once so far. But that will all go away soon enough. A signature is entirely useless on an Apple Pay purchase and does absolutely nothing to increase security. If you are right that purchases over $100 in Canada require chip and pin, I will be unable to pay my hotel bill in June, no purchase anything in Canada over $100. -- http://2blog.kreme.com A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 23:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cn91cuF5ssnU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46797 |
On 2015-03-22, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 15-03-22 14:14, Rod Speed wrote: > >> And clearly Apple isn't going to make Passport demand >> all that information from the customer adding any card >> to ApplePay and few customers would have anything >> to do with ApplePay even if Apple was that stupid. > > Then the system remains insecure and requires bank contact customers to > obtain information that Apple is unwilling to collect on their behalf. The banks and Apple defined which information would be collected initially before launch. The banks and Apple knew ahead of time what rough percentages of cards would fall into green, yellow, and red paths. And the banks individually defined their own methods of handling yellow path fraud and agreed to take full liability for fraud resulting from their processes. > This adds costs to banks for every card activation that could have been > done without human intervention if all the info was supplied by phone > user to authenticate him/herself. Bank sympathizers R us, eh? Such bullshit. It's well documented that banks, as standard procedure, make calculated ($$$) decisions not to close accounts that they know have been compromised to re-issue new accounts to customers, instead waiting for fraud to actually occur before replacing them piecemeal. Banks are creating this work for themselves. > In the case of using the cards stored in Itunes, Apple could simply > present a dialogue with the info already all written in and ask user to > confirm sending it to bank. For all you know Apple already does send sufficient information. You have yet to prove otherwise to back up your empty claims. > For other cards, you enter that info (or > Apple could present the info from Itunes account and give chance to > correct it). > > It can be simple. Though not as flitzy as just taking picture of a card. It is just that simple for the vast majority of people using Apple Pay, because their information matches what banks have on record, and they are placed on the Green Path. >>> Yes it is the bank's fault if it accepts to activate a >>> card with only card number , name ane expiration. >> >> They always get more than just that data. > > Based on the Apple web page on Apple Pay, it isn't obvious any > additional infortion is always sent. Only when the card used in Itunes > account is activated. And despite what is written on Apple's own web site, you're naturally going to just *assume* it's never ever sent otherwise, because: Apple. Got it. Still just a bunch of empty words with nothing to back them up, unfortunately. So you lose. >> They correctly state how much more secure >> ApplePay is than mag stripe cards and chip >> and pin cards too because you don’t need >> to use a pin > > Statistics show otherwise. And that is because of the card activation > process being very weak. The process defined for Yellow Path by banks which is outside of Apple Pay is weak for some banks, but not weak at all for others with low fraud rates. >> That is just plain wrong. The bank is free to tell the >> customer when the card has been added to ApplePay > > You are assuming the bank has means to contact 100% of customers. LOL! Riiiiight. That's the problem! Talk about grasping at straws... > In many cases, they only have phone number at home. Don't assume they > can SMS , email 100% of their customers. "And that is clearly Apple's fault too, you see", he said. You, sir, are full of it. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 20:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f5e1a$0$25083$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46811 |
On 15-03-22 19:26, Jolly Roger wrote: > The banks and Apple defined which information would be collected > initially before launch. Sorry, but you cannot state that. You have stated you are not working for Apple, so in that case, you have no way of knowing what really happened. What we know is that the Apple web site on Apple Pay paints an overly simplistic and inadequate process of just taking picture of a credit card without providing any additional info. It seems to me like Apple told banks "this is all we're gonna provide, if you need more, get customer to phone you to provide more". Not quite "working togerther de decide what would be provided". > The banks and Apple knew ahead of time what > rough percentages of cards would fall into green, yellow, and red paths. Sorry, but with only credit card number, expiration and name on card, there is no way for a bank to gauge authenticity of request. So if they base a decision on some sort of customer profile, this basically means "we'll blindly authorize activation becase this customer is a good customer" without having any information whatsoever on whether the person who requested the activation is actually that customer. A smart bank would put all customers on "yellow" by default to force customer to provide more info before acticating a card since the initial activation request coming through Apple's servers contains insufficient inforamation to make such a decision.
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| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <220320152030051711%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #46817 |
In article <550f5e1a$0$25083$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > What we know is that the Apple web site on Apple Pay paints an overly > simplistic and inadequate process of just taking picture of a credit > card without providing any additional info. other documents go into more detail. however, it's not going to go into specifics because then the thugs would know what info to spoof.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 21:06 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f6718$0$41768$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46818 |
Made a mistake in previous statement. In Chip/PIN, the terminal is given the credit card number by the card. (along with list of transaction protocols supported). However, the actual transaction that is sent to eventually reach card issuer is encrypted by the card. The response is also encrypted and sent to the card which will then send a message to the terminal with decrypted transaction confirmation/denial.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 12:40 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <cn9995F7v2cU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46822 |
"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message news:550f6718$0$41768$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com... > > Made a mistake in previous statement. > > In Chip/PIN, the terminal is given the credit card number by the card. > (along with list of transaction protocols supported). > > However, the actual transaction that is sent to eventually reach card > issuer is encrypted by the card. The response is also encrypted and sent > to the card which will then send a message to the terminal with > decrypted transaction confirmation/denial. So there is no reason why the idevice can't do that and there is no point in requiring the physical card in the terminal.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-23 01:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cn97kpF6nbtU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #46817 |
On 2015-03-23, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 15-03-22 19:26, Jolly Roger wrote: > >> The banks and Apple defined which information would be collected >> initially before launch. > > Sorry, but you cannot state that. You have stated you are not working > for Apple I said if I was I wouldn't tell you. > so in that case, you have no way of knowing what really > happened. You actually think Apple designed Apple Pay with no input from banks? You're pretty silly. > What we know is that the Apple web site on Apple Pay paints an overly > simplistic and inadequate process of just taking picture of a credit > card without providing any additional info. It also states that Apple sends other information, as you have been told repeatedly but choose to conveniently ignore. And it doesn't claim to list all of the information that is used, either. > It seems to me like Apple told banks "this is all we're gonna provide, > if you need more, get customer to phone you to provide more". Not quite > "working togerther de decide what would be provided". According to you for several years now, everything Apple does is insufficient and bound to fail. So we're pretty well used to ignoring your obvious trolls since they are so often wrong. >> The banks and Apple knew ahead of time what >> rough percentages of cards would fall into green, yellow, and red paths. > > Sorry, but with only credit card number, expiration and name on card, Liar. Other information is included. > So if they base a decision on some sort of customer profile, this > basically means "we'll blindly authorize activation becase this customer > is a good customer" without having any information whatsoever on whether > the person who requested the activation is actually that customer. Nobody is forcing them to do so. > since the initial > activation request coming through Apple's servers contains insufficient > inforamation to make such a decision. Bullshit. Troll on, trollboi. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-22 21:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <550f6b18$0$16741$c3e8da3$76a7c58f@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #46825 |
On 15-03-22 21:12, Jolly Roger wrote: > You actually think Apple designed Apple Pay with no input from banks? > You're pretty silly. I never said that didn't accept input from banks. But having a dialogue does not mean that Apple accepts all the bank's requests. > It also states that Apple sends other information, as you have been told > repeatedly but choose to conveniently ignore. And it doesn't claim to > list all of the information that is used, either. I have been told that repeatedly by people who fail to actually provide the information so they won't help "thugs". The problem here is that as a cardholder, I *need* to know what information is being transmitted by Apple to my Bank. I *must* know. In fact when Apple Pay comes to Canada, if Apple does not divulge that information, they'll get a letter from the Privacy Commissioner requiring Apple to comply with PIPEDA. > Liar. Other information is included. Then how come the Apple public web site limits the info to what is on the face of the credit card for cards added that are not in Itunes account ? And how come it doesn't specifically list what iTunes account info is released to the banks. They'll have to update that web page when they expand Apple Pay to countries that have privacy laws.
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