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Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies

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  Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 17:03 -0700
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-20 20:28 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:38 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 13:55 +1100
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 20:59 -0700
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 16:51 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 07:53 -0700
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:19 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:57 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:06 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:11 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:51 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 15:10 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 06:24 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:49 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 21:10 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:18 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 10:57 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 15:01 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 16:20 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 12:38 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 17:18 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:55 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:04 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:11 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:16 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:29 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:40 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:32 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 15:08 -0700
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:02 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:46 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:19 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 09:52 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:12 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:00 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 18:58 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:32 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:20 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:47 -0500
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:48 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:50 +0000
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:54 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:31 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:20 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:53 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 19:05 +0000
                          Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-03-24 10:20 -0700
                            Re: Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-24 19:06 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:35 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:22 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 12:17 +1100
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:03 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:44 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 21:57 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:14 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 13:54 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:14 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:38 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:54 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 15:09 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 06:24 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 17:15 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:00 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:06 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 11:24 +1100
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:43 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:33 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:26 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:28 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:06 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:40 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:12 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:23 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 21:26 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:46 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:52 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:22 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:49 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:25 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:33 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 14:08 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 14:09 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 18:33 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:49 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:37 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:15 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:43 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:18 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:30 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:44 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:04 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:16 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:33 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:51 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:59 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:07 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 16:36 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 08:37 +1100
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 21:45 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-24 10:51 +1300
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 18:43 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 22:56 +0000
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 10:29 +1100
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:36 +0000
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-24 01:47 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 19:44 +1100
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-24 15:04 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:35 +0000
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:02 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:05 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:19 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 00:36 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:18 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:36 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:12 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:30 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:24 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:39 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-22 20:05 -0700
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 23:46 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:00 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:52 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 00:10 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:58 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:41 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:52 +0000
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:48 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:33 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:13 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:59 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies News <News@Group.Post> - 2015-03-23 13:14 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 01:39 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 00:52 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:11 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:44 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 06:22 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:40 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:17 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:28 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:47 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:56 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:09 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 19:14 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:47 -0400
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 20:40 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:49 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:38 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:13 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:30 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:11 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:43 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:36 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:31 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:24 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:04 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:25 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:15 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:40 +0000
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:02 -0400
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-21 11:43 -0500
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:10 +0000

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#46692 — Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies

<http://tidbits.com/article/15504>

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#46693

On 15-03-20 20:03, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>


There is an error in it.

The merchant is protected fron fraud if he has followed process and had
his tranactiosn authorized (which, with POS terminals, ends up being
every transation). In those cases, the banks eat the loss.

Charge backs are when merchanst did not follow procedure or are
themselves fraudulent, refuse to refund the customer etc.

I do not know of any country where the cardholder is reponsible for the
fraud for Visa or Mastercard.   Even with chip/pin, the bank limit the
cardholder's liability to $50.

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#46697

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Michelle Steiner wrote

>> <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>

> There is an error in it.

There is a lot more than one error in it.

It’s a pig ignorant lie that only the US limits the
liability of the card holder in the case of fraud.

And he stupidly ignores the fact that even when that isn't
required by law, it is in fact provided by the bank almost always.

> The merchant is protected fron fraud if he has followed process
> and had his tranactiosn authorized (which, with POS terminals, ends
> up being every transation). In those cases, the banks eat the loss.

Its more complicated than that in the US.
Who is liable is about to change there.

> Charge backs are when merchanst did not follow procedure or
> are themselves fraudulent, refuse to refund the customer etc.

Or when what they supply is defective etc.

> I do not know of any country where the cardholder
> is reponsible for the fraud for Visa or Mastercard.
> Even with chip/pin, the bank limit the
> cardholder's liability to $50.

Mine has no limit at all, you don’t lose cent, just
your time that you used to tell them about the fraud. 

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#46694

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 

> <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>

Doesn't add anything new except the fact that
some in the banking industry do believe that
Apple monstered them into accepting what
information Apple chose to provide them
with when registering a card with Apple Pay. 

And since Apple has not denied that they
now provide more information to the banks,
it seems likely that their claim is a valid one.  

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#46699

In article <cn44usFsmrvU1@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 
> 
> > <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>
> 
> Doesn't add anything new except the fact that some in the banking
> industry do believe that Apple monstered them into accepting what
> information Apple chose to provide them with when registering a card
> with Apple Pay. 
> 
> And since Apple has not denied that they now provide more information
> to the banks, it seems likely that their claim is a valid one.  

Apple has no reason to comment on it at all, neither to deny it nor to
acknowledge it.

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#46701

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 

>> > <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>

>> Doesn't add anything new except the fact that some in 
>> the banking industry do believe that Apple monstered 
>> them into accepting what information Apple chose to 
>> provide them with when registering a card with Apple Pay. 
 
>> And since Apple has not denied that they now provide more information
>> to the banks, it seems likely that their claim is a valid one.  
 
> Apple has no reason to comment on it at all, 
> neither to deny it nor to acknowledge it.

BULLSHIT.  

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#46714

In article <cn4f7iFcnqU1@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 
> 
> >> > <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>
> 
> >> Doesn't add anything new except the fact that some in 
> >> the banking industry do believe that Apple monstered 
> >> them into accepting what information Apple chose to 
> >> provide them with when registering a card with Apple Pay. 
>  
> >> And since Apple has not denied that they now provide more information
> >> to the banks, it seems likely that their claim is a valid one.  
>  
> > Apple has no reason to comment on it at all, 
> > neither to deny it nor to acknowledge it.
> 
> BULLSHIT.  

You're the expert on bullshit, considering that you can't bullshit your
way out of a wet paper bag.

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#46726

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote 

>>>>> <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>

>>>> Doesn't add anything new except the fact that some in 
>>>> the banking industry do believe that Apple monstered 
>>>> them into accepting what information Apple chose to 
>>>> provide them with when registering a card with Apple Pay. 
  
>>>> And since Apple has not denied that they now provide more information
>>>> to the banks, it seems likely that their claim is a valid one.  

>>> Apple has no reason to comment on it at all, 
>>> neither to deny it nor to acknowledge it.
 
>> BULLSHIT.  
 
> You're the expert on bullshit, considering that you 
> can't bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

Can't even manage its own lines, or anything else at all either.  

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#46708

On 2015-03-21, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
><http://tidbits.com/article/15504>

Given that fraud via Apple Pay is approx 100 times as prevalent as fraud
via other channels from the same banks, it seems not unreasonable to assign
the fault to Apple.

-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 7th day of Discord in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.  If you have a problem with my attitude,
                    that's your problem.

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#46710

On 2015-03-21 05:57, Huge wrote:
> On 2015-03-21, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> <http://tidbits.com/article/15504>
>
> Given that fraud via Apple Pay is approx 100 times as prevalent as fraud
> via other channels from the same banks, it seems not unreasonable to assign
> the fault to Apple.

Not at all.  It's shared.  More to the banks.  But the use of the Apple 
Pay setup as an opportunity to push stolen card numbers should have been 
flagged by the banks (and to a lesser degree Apple) and a more stringent 
onboarding process provided by Apple and demanded by the banks.

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#46723

On 15-03-21 09:06, Alan Browne wrote:

> Not at all.  It's shared.  More to the banks.  But the use of the Apple 
> Pay setup as an opportunity to push stolen card numbers should have been 
> flagged by the banks (and to a lesser degree Apple) and a more stringent 
> onboarding process provided by Apple and demanded by the banks.


You are assuming that credit card company staff think about database
theft. A lot of the credit card security heads are ex cops as they
understand the "street" where cards are stolen, traded/sold and then
used with colluding merchants. (the "analog" stolen credit card market).

They don't necessarily understand all this newfangled thing like buying
on the internet and stores (for what reason?) who store valid credit
card numbers in microsoft databases ripe for the picking.

It is entirely possible that they have not yet truly embedded the theft
of whole databases in their thinking when they consider practices.

The fact that some merchants are allowed to store a database full of
valid credit card numbers boggles the mind. After the transaction has
been processed, the company should zap that number since it becomes a
huge liability/target for thieves.

It is like displaying an open safe full of cash in your store window.

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#46730

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Alan Browne wrote

>> Not at all.  It's shared.  More to the banks.  But the use of the Apple 
>> Pay
>> setup as an opportunity to push stolen card numbers should have been
>> flagged by the banks (and to a lesser degree Apple) and a more stringent
>> onboarding process provided by Apple and demanded by the banks.

> You are assuming that credit card company staff think about database 
> theft.

Of course they do.

> A lot of the credit card security heads are ex cops as they understand
> the "street" where cards are stolen, traded/sold and then used with
> colluding merchants. (the "analog" stolen credit card market).

Those won't be the ones making policy choices on
security or the ones having any say at all about how
stuff like adding a card to apple pay is done either.

> They don't necessarily understand all this newfangled thing like
> buying on the internet and stores (for what reason?) who store valid
> credit card numbers in microsoft databases ripe for the picking.

BULLSHIT.

> It is entirely possible that they have not yet truly embedded the theft
> of whole databases in their thinking when they consider practices.

BULLSHIT.

> The fact that some merchants are allowed to store a database
> full of valid credit card numbers boggles the mind.

Have fun spelling out how to avoid that.

> After the transaction has been processed, the company should zap
> that number since it becomes a huge liability/target for thieves.

Now try explaining how PayPal can even operate without such a database.

And don’t try claiming that the customer should be supplying
the card number and CVV for every transaction either. That would
make it MUCH easier to grab that as it is supplied every time. Its
MUCH more secure if I don’t have to supply that on every transaction.

> It is like displaying an open safe full of cash in your store window.

Nothing like, actually. 

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#46732

On 15-03-21 14:51, Rod Speed wrote:

> And don’t try claiming that the customer should be supplying
> the card number and CVV for every transaction either. That would
> make it MUCH easier to grab that as it is supplied every time. Its
> MUCH more secure if I don’t have to supply that on every transaction.

Statistics may show that database theft leads to far greater fraud
losses (and cost of replacing thousands of cards) than people spying on
HTTPS transactions to obtain credit cards. Only the NSA and friends
bother with those.

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#46733

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> And don’t try claiming that the customer should be supplying
>> the card number and CVV for every transaction either. That would
>> make it MUCH easier to grab that as it is supplied every time. Its
>> MUCH more secure if I don’t have to supply that on every transaction.

> Statistics may show that database theft leads to far greater fraud
> losses (and cost of replacing thousands of cards) than people spying on
> HTTPS transactions to obtain credit cards. Only the NSA and friends
> bother with those.

That last is just plain wrong. 

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#46741

On 2015-03-21 13:11, JF Mezei wrote:
> On 15-03-21 09:06, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Not at all.  It's shared.  More to the banks.  But the use of the Apple
>> Pay setup as an opportunity to push stolen card numbers should have been
>> flagged by the banks (and to a lesser degree Apple) and a more stringent
>> onboarding process provided by Apple and demanded by the banks.
>
>
> You are assuming that credit card company staff think about database
> theft. A lot of the credit card security heads are ex cops as they
> understand the "street" where cards are stolen, traded/sold and then
> used with colluding merchants. (the "analog" stolen credit card market).

Go read (actually read) the article I posted from the NYT.  A major 
problem is how the banks routed "yellow lane" issues to customer service 
for attention (they help people get their cards to work) rather than to 
the fraud prevention specialists.  Score a negative for the banks.

Apple are the lesser issue, but still an important part of the issue. 
Still they have increased the quantity/quality of information sent to 
the banks for each card being onboarded.

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#46745

On 15-03-21 17:49, Alan Browne wrote:
> A major
> problem is how the banks routed "yellow lane" issues to customer service 
> for attention (they help people get their cards to work) rather than to 
> the fraud prevention specialists.  Score a negative for the banks.



In Canada, banks have special card activation telephone numbers staff by
people trained and with tools to authenticate the customer before
activating the card.

No reason the USA banks couldn't have done the same. The problem here is
that the focus on customer support may have been to explain how Apple
Pay works with no focus/training and maybe toold to authenticate the
customer. May not have been clear to the staff that the alleged customer
was routed to them because automated card activation flagged the person
as high risk.


Once the customer is handed over to the bank to activate the card, it is
100% the bank's fault for activating it.

What we don't know is the percentage of fraudulently used cards
activated without requiring the person contact the bank to authenticate
themselves.

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#46776

On 2015-03-22, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> The problem here is that the focus on customer support may have been
> to explain how Apple Pay works with no focus/training and maybe toold
> to authenticate the customer.

Based on what? Or are you just wildly speculating with no evidence at
all again?

> May not have been clear to the staff that the alleged customer
> was routed to them because automated card activation flagged the person
> as high risk.

Again, based on what? Nothing?

> Once the customer is handed over to the bank to activate the card, it is
> 100% the bank's fault for activating it.

Absolutely. The bank is also at fault for not disabling these accounts
after they were initially stolen.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#46715

In article <cn4tk1F3eloU2@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> Given that fraud via Apple Pay is approx 100 times as prevalent as fraud
> via other channels from the same banks, it seems not unreasonable to assign
> the fault to Apple.

it's up to the bank, not apple, to approve or decline a card to be used
with applepay.

if the thug provides the appropriate information and the bank is
satisfied, then there's not much apple can do.

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#46718

On 2015-03-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <cn4tk1F3eloU2@mid.individual.net>, Huge
><Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Given that fraud via Apple Pay is approx 100 times as prevalent as fraud
>> via other channels from the same banks, it seems not unreasonable to assign
>> the fault to Apple.
>
> it's up to the bank, not apple, to approve or decline a card to be used
> with applepay.
>
> if the thug provides the appropriate information and the bank is
> satisfied, then there's not much apple can do.

Yeah, but that doesn't help the haters blame Apple. Logic be damned.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#46719

In comp.sys.mac.system Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> Yeah, but that doesn't help the haters blame Apple. Logic be damned.

Apple's fault or the banks' fault- who cares whose fault it is? 

I have rediscovered cash for making purchases - it's quick, convenient, 
secure, accepted everywhere, and it works when the power goes out or 
the network goes down. I got to go to the front of the line at the 
grocery store because I had cash during a network outage. Almost nobody 
else in the store could buy their food. They all had dumbfounded, 
panicked looks on their faces. The network outage, which lasted for more 
than an hour all over the city, was the top story on the local news that 
night.

I don't understand people who won't carry any cash with them because 
they're afraid of losing it or being mugged of it. So instead they flash 
around their $700 iPhone everywhere they go...? Huh?

Rediscover cash - you'll be glad you did.

-- 
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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