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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #140781 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-05-04 00:29 +0100 |
| Last post | 2024-05-12 09:31 +0200 |
| Articles | 13 on this page of 73 — 15 participants |
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Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2024-05-04 00:29 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 21:01 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-05-04 02:05 -0500
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-04 16:49 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-04 10:22 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 12:49 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-05 16:15 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-04 11:03 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> - 2024-05-04 11:16 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2024-05-04 11:31 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 13:01 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay tony@mountifield.org (Tony Mountifield) - 2024-05-07 17:06 +0000
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2024-05-08 13:26 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Newyana2 <Newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-05-04 09:31 -0400
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 13:06 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-05-04 17:23 -0500
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-05 16:17 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-08 08:25 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-08 08:59 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-08 23:19 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-09 07:40 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-12 11:21 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-12 12:00 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-12 11:24 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-05-04 01:59 -0500
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-04 10:22 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-04 11:06 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> - 2024-05-04 11:20 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-04 12:31 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 13:03 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 13:44 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-05 14:15 +0000
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-05 16:23 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-05-04 15:51 -0500
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2024-05-04 23:54 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-05-04 21:54 -0500
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-04 20:35 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> - 2024-05-05 10:45 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2024-05-05 13:14 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 11:00 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2024-05-05 09:56 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-05 11:12 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> - 2024-05-05 10:37 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-05 14:13 +0000
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-06 15:12 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> - 2024-05-05 10:28 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 15:50 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 10:06 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-05 16:22 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-05-05 11:06 -0700
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-05 20:10 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-06 08:07 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-06 09:34 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> - 2024-05-06 08:35 +0100
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 10:09 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-05 14:33 +0000
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-05 16:24 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-05-08 15:12 +0300
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-04 16:46 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-05 15:53 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-05 16:32 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-06 10:19 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-07 08:51 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-05-06 07:45 -0400
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-07 09:45 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-07 16:01 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-07 17:41 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-09 16:48 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-05-09 17:43 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-05-07 12:00 -0400
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-09 17:03 +0200
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay bad💽sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-05-10 08:04 -0400
Re: Samsung Wallet vs Google Pay Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-12 09:31 +0200
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| From | Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-05 16:32 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v185ae$1pjh$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #140825 |
On 05.05.24 15:53, Arno Welzel wrote: > Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-04 16:46: > >> On 04.05.24 01:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>> Any preferences here - and why? >> >> I do not use any of them and I also do not use Apple Pay. > > Apple is off-topic here. It is very much on topic in this context. Are you trying to be destructive at any price? >> 1) I do not see any added value >> 2) I do not want tech companies in the financial sector in any way > > Why do you use a payment app then at all? You are not able to reflect on what I wrote. Credit Card and Debit Card companies as well as banks and other institutions are regulated and watched. Tech companies are not. They are just an additional risk to the system. But these are categories that are beyond your knowledge as you proved in the German-speaking groups to a great extent and your question proves it as well. -- "Manus manum lavat."
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-06 10:19 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <l9ri53F7d7iU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #140833 |
Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-05 16:32: > On 05.05.24 15:53, Arno Welzel wrote: >> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-04 16:46: >> >>> On 04.05.24 01:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>>> Any preferences here - and why? >>> >>> I do not use any of them and I also do not use Apple Pay. >> >> Apple is off-topic here. > > It is very much on topic in this context. Are you trying to be > destructive at any price? No, this newsgroup is "comp.mobile.android". So it is about *Android*. And if some asks if people use one of two payment apps for *Android* the reply that you use Apple Pay is completely off-topic here. It's like if someone asks about programs in Windows in a windows newsgroup and you would then explain what programs you use in your mac instead because you don't use Windows at all. >>> 1) I do not see any added value >>> 2) I do not want tech companies in the financial sector in any way >> >> Why do you use a payment app then at all? > > You are not able to reflect on what I wrote. Credit Card and Debit Card > companies as well as banks and other institutions are regulated and > watched. Tech companies are not. They are just an additional risk to the > system. You wrote that you use Apple pay and that you don't want tech companies financial sector in any way. Well - Apple *is* a tech company and Apple Pay *is* an involvement in the financial sector. > But these are categories that are beyond your knowledge as you proved in > the German-speaking groups to a great extent and your question proves it > as well. Look in the mirror! -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-07 08:51 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <l9u1b1Fj4iiU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #140860 |
Arno Welzel, 2024-05-06 10:19: > Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-05 16:32: > >> On 05.05.24 15:53, Arno Welzel wrote: >>> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-04 16:46: >>> >>>> On 04.05.24 01:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>>>> Any preferences here - and why? >>>> >>>> I do not use any of them and I also do not use Apple Pay. >>> >>> Apple is off-topic here. >> >> It is very much on topic in this context. Are you trying to be >> destructive at any price? > > No, this newsgroup is "comp.mobile.android". So it is about *Android*. > And if some asks if people use one of two payment apps for *Android* the > reply that you use Apple Pay is completely off-topic here. > > It's like if someone asks about programs in Windows in a windows > newsgroup and you would then explain what programs you use in your mac > instead because you don't use Windows at all. > >>>> 1) I do not see any added value >>>> 2) I do not want tech companies in the financial sector in any way >>> >>> Why do you use a payment app then at all? >> >> You are not able to reflect on what I wrote. Credit Card and Debit Card >> companies as well as banks and other institutions are regulated and >> watched. Tech companies are not. They are just an additional risk to the >> system. > > You wrote that you use Apple pay and that you don't want tech companies > financial sector in any way. > > Well - Apple *is* a tech company and Apple Pay *is* an involvement in > the financial sector. > >> But these are categories that are beyond your knowledge as you proved in >> the German-speaking groups to a great extent and your question proves it >> as well. > > Look in the mirror! In addition: I did not see the "not" in "I also do not use Apple Pay." since your usual responses to such questions are that Apple is better and therefore you use Apple products. So just a misunderstanding - mea culpa. -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-06 07:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <tticnVK-qLx9X6X7nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #140781 |
On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: > Any preferences here - and why? Cash?
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-07 09:45 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <hq2pgkxl1a.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #140866 |
On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: > On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >> Any preferences here - and why? > > Cash? Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-07 16:01 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v1dc7t$39i7c$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140913 |
On 07.05.24 09:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: >> On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>> Any preferences here - and why? >> >> Cash? > > Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. Deep State? *ROTFLSTC* -- "Alea iacta est." (Julius Caesar)
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-07 17:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <l9v0ckFmqjmU11@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #140920 |
Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-07 16:01: > On 07.05.24 09:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: >>> On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>>> Any preferences here - and why? >>> >>> Cash? >> >> Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. > > Deep State? *ROTFLSTC* Well - even in Switzerland there is a limit for anonymous cash transactions, not as low as 1000 EUR, but a limit exists and this will even be lowered soon: <https://www.thebanker.com/Banks-under-increased-scrutiny-as-Switzerland-proposes-AML-reform-1699263768> -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-09 16:48 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v1innv$mnd4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140925 |
On 07.05.24 17:41, Arno Welzel wrote: > Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-07 16:01: > >> On 07.05.24 09:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: >>>> On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>>>> Any preferences here - and why? >>>> >>>> Cash? >>> >>> Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. >> >> Deep State? *ROTFLSTC* > > Well - even in Switzerland there is a limit for anonymous cash > transactions, not as low as 1000 EUR, but a limit exists and this will > even be lowered soon: > > <https://www.thebanker.com/Banks-under-increased-scrutiny-as-Switzerland-proposes-AML-reform-1699263768> Not surprising you have no clue like always. You did not read the full article, did you? It is behind a paywall. -- "Alea iacta est." (Julius Caesar)
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-09 17:43 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <la498oFgv97U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #140969 |
Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-09 16:48: > On 07.05.24 17:41, Arno Welzel wrote: >> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-05-07 16:01: >> >>> On 07.05.24 09:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: >>>>> On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>>>>> Any preferences here - and why? >>>>> >>>>> Cash? >>>> >>>> Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. >>> >>> Deep State? *ROTFLSTC* >> >> Well - even in Switzerland there is a limit for anonymous cash >> transactions, not as low as 1000 EUR, but a limit exists and this will >> even be lowered soon: >> >> <https://www.thebanker.com/Banks-under-increased-scrutiny-as-Switzerland-proposes-AML-reform-1699263768> > > Not surprising you have no clue like always. You did not read the full > article, did you? It is behind a paywall. As usual... instead of a helpful comment at least one single pointer to the relevant information just a "you are dumb" response. First of all: how much money you give someone else in cash is *never* regulated as long as you are not taking the money as part of any legal transaction like selling goods or services. A drug dealer paying someone else to get his delivery will of course not do this using a regulated bank account. <https://lenews.ch/2022/07/01/swiss-debt-enforcement-offices-aiding-money-laundering/> Quote: "In Switzerland, banks must verify the provenance of any cash sums of more than CHF 15,000." So this means - as in many Euopean countries as well - you can accept more than CH 15,000 in cash from anyone, but when you want to transfer this money to your bank account you need to verify the provenance. And telling the bank "I got this as a gift from a person whose name I forgot" will not work. -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-07 12:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <GCCdnf1i0MKdzaf7nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #140913 |
On 5/7/24 03:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: >> On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>> Any preferences here - and why? >> >> Cash? > > Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. It's only a start, the neonobility will do away with cash altogether, tightening the screws one at a time until everyone rents even the air they breathe, no capital payments either, just perpetual interest. Canada did away with $1000 bills supposedly to fence-in the drug dealers but concurrently we're legalizing just about all hard drugs. It's all a farce and an insult, now all the politicians getting paid off by blackrock are geting suitcases full of US 1000 bills instead. But if I want to buy a few 10 gal cans of survival food it will not be sold for cash or anon but be logged so that the minute I need it someone will be at my door to shoot us for it. Data denial is the name of the game or should be, too bad that the plebs is mortally stupid, I agree that cash *is* doomed.
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| From | Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-09 17:03 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v1iojm$mnd3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140926 |
On 07.05.24 18:00, bad sector wrote: > On 5/7/24 03:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: >>> On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>>> Any preferences here - and why? >>> >>> Cash? >> >> Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. > > It's only a start, the neonobility will do away with cash altogether, > tightening the screws one at a time until everyone rents even the air > they breathe, no capital payments either, just perpetual interest. > Canada did away with $1000 bills supposedly to fence-in the drug dealers > but concurrently we're legalizing just about all hard drugs. It's all a > farce and an insult, now all the politicians getting paid off by > blackrock are geting suitcases full of US 1000 bills instead. > > But if I want to buy a few 10 gal cans of survival food it will not be > sold for cash or anon but be logged so that the minute I need it someone > will be at my door to shoot us for it. > > Data denial is the name of the game or should be, too bad that the plebs > is mortally stupid, I agree that cash *is* doomed. Nice subject for conspiracy theories. Elect another government, idiot. -- "Alea iacta est." (Julius Caesar)
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| From | bad💽sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-10 08:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <uw6dnbmGnLHYkKP7nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #140970 |
On 5/9/24 11:03, Jörg Lorenz wrote: > On 07.05.24 18:00, bad sector wrote: >> On 5/7/24 03:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> On 2024-05-06 13:45, bad sector wrote: >>>> On 5/3/24 19:29, Jim the Geordie wrote: >>>>> Any preferences here - and why? >>>> >>>> Cash? >>> >>> Cash transactions above 1000 euros are prohibited here. >> >> It's only a start, the neonobility will do away with cash altogether, >> tightening the screws one at a time until everyone rents even the air >> they breathe, no capital payments either, just perpetual interest. >> Canada did away with $1000 bills supposedly to fence-in the drug dealers >> but concurrently we're legalizing just about all hard drugs. It's all a >> farce and an insult, now all the politicians getting paid off by >> blackrock are geting suitcases full of US 1000 bills instead. >> >> But if I want to buy a few 10 gal cans of survival food it will not be >> sold for cash or anon but be logged so that the minute I need it someone >> will be at my door to shoot us for it. >> >> Data denial is the name of the game or should be, too bad that the plebs >> is mortally stupid, I agree that cash *is* doomed. > > Nice subject for conspiracy theories. > Elect another government, idiot. Same to you with knobs on it. If conspiracy theories will be the subject then googling George Soros might help (re: perpetual interest payments).
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| From | Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-12 09:31 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v1pr9c$2jddm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140996 |
On 10.05.24 14:04, bad💽sector wrote: > On 5/9/24 11:03, Jörg Lorenz wrote: >> On 07.05.24 18:00, bad sector wrote: >>> Data denial is the name of the game or should be, too bad that the plebs >>> is mortally stupid, I agree that cash *is* doomed. >> >> Nice subject for conspiracy theories. >> Elect another government, idiot. > > Same to you with knobs on it. If conspiracy theories will be the subject > then googling George Soros might help (re: perpetual interest payments). QED: You are a Troll. -- "Mille viae ducunt hominem per saecula Romam." (Alanus ab Insulis 1120-1202)
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