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Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron

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  Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-21 00:41 +0000
    Re: Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2018-08-21 12:01 -0700
      Re: Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-22 15:02 +0000
        Re: Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron Alek <alek.trishan@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 12:32 -0400
          Re: Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-22 20:47 +0000
          Re: Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-24 18:54 +0000
            Re: Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-24 22:59 +0000
              Re: Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-26 19:04 +0000

#54993 — Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron

Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of
adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron.

He *thinks* he's a genius.
Because he can finally see what everyone else already knows.
Becuase it's not even hidden - its in plain sight.

And yet, Joerg Lorenz claims he's an utter genius for "figuring out" the
obvious. 

Jesus. 
People like Joerg Lorenz are truly _that_ stupid!

Proof here:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/IzaJ4qy2r5k/HUUlQqNQCwAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/IzaJ4qy2r5k/3FsHD73XCwAJ>

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#55001

On 8/20/2018 5:41 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz proves, yet again, not only that he's utterly incapable of
> adding technical value, but that he's a confirmed moron.

Good thing we have the likes of  you to pass judgment and post it
for all to see.

> He *thinks* he's a genius.
> Because he can finally see what everyone else already knows.
> Becuase it's not even hidden - its in plain sight.

Exactly what contribution does your post make  in plain sight?
>
> And yet, Joerg Lorenz claims he's an utter genius for "figuring out" the
> obvious.
>
> Jesus.

Excellent point.  What would Jesus do?   Talk to him instead
of exposing your...

> People like Joerg Lorenz are truly _that_ stupid!
>
> Proof here:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/IzaJ4qy2r5k/HUUlQqNQCwAJ>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/IzaJ4qy2r5k/3FsHD73XCwAJ>
>

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#55008

On 21 Aug 2018 12:01:17 GMT, mike wrote:

> Good thing we have the likes of  you to pass judgment and post it
> for all to see.

A cowardly bully like Joerg Lorenz shows himself to be the moron he is. 
I merely refer to his own posts where he proves it himself.

> Exactly what contribution does your post make  in plain sight?

I have thousands upon thousands of useful threads on Usenet.
Hence, bear in mind, that nothing I do on Usenet is by accident. 

I've been on Usenet as long as anyone else here.
We're (almost) all old men, very skilled in this process.

And, unlike Joerg Lorenz, I try to be helpful in every thread.
Yes, even this thread.

Joerz Lorenz is *never* purposefully helpful.
In any thread. Any topic. Just like nospam & Jolly Roger.

They're all childish cowardly bullies.

There is a strategic reason I confront bullies, and it's the same reason
you and everyone here was taught decades ago to confront cowardly bullies
like Joerg Lorenz proves himself to be in every worthless post of his.

> Excellent point.  What would Jesus do?   Talk to him instead
> of exposing your...

If this thread causes Joerg Lorenz to "just go away", then it will have
been worth the incursion into your day, and everyone's day, as *nothing*
Joerg Lorenz ever posted on Usenet has *ever* added on-topic value.

Just watch what Joerg Lorenz posts - where he proves me right.

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#55009

Arlen Holder wrote on 8/22/2018 11:02 AM:
> 
> If this thread causes Joerg Lorenz to "just go away", then it will have
> been worth the incursion into your day, and everyone's day, as *nothing*
> Joerg Lorenz ever posted on Usenet has *ever* added on-topic value.
> 

I think that "Usenet wisdom" says that if you do not confront
bullies/trolls, they will go away and seek another venue for getting
responses. They are really only after attention which they get with
every response to a message in one of their threads.

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#55013

On 22 Aug 2018 09:32:00 GMT, Alek wrote:

> I think that "Usenet wisdom" says that if you do not confront
> bullies/trolls, they will go away and seek another venue for getting
> responses. They are really only after attention which they get with
> every response to a message in one of their threads.

I'm well acquainted with _all_ the typical Usenet wisdom of not feeding the
trolls, not arguing with an idiot, plonking rules, etc.

I've seen entire newsgroups ruined by the worthless trolls such as Joerg
Lorenz proves himself to be, where you should take a look at, for example
 http://tinyurl.com/alt-free-newsservers
to see an example of how they have basically rendered an entire newsgroup
unusable (or nearly so, as in this next newsgroup)
 http://tinyurl.com/alt-home-repair

There are basically only two ways to deal with the worthless posts from the
likes of Joerg Lorenz, where how you deal with them depends greatly on your
strategy, intent, and any semblance of self respect left in the people like
Joerg Lorenz. 

Hence, the "best" answer isn't as simple as the well-known platitudes of
a. Don't feed the trolls, or, 
b. Never argue with an idiot, because ... 

While there are trolls (e.g., Snit, nospam, Jolly Roger, Alan Baker, etc.)
who have absolutely zero self respect, there are others, e.g., Frank
Slootweg is the classic on the Android newsgroup) who have "some" remnants
of self respect remaining. 

For _those_ with a vestige of self respect, calling out their trolling
activities, I've found, tends to reduce them, whereas for those who lack
all semblance of self respect, e.g., Snit, calling them out only encourages
them.

Each troll has to be handled differently.

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#55076

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:32:00 -0400,
Alek <alek.trishan@gmail.com>, in
<plk35r$uul$1@dont-email.me> wrote:

>  I think that "Usenet wisdom" says that if you do not confront
>  bullies/trolls, they will go away and seek another venue for getting
>  responses. They are really only after attention which they get with
>  every response to a message in one of their threads.

You feed the troll, you take 'em home. Or simply shake the dust from
your feet and let that stand as a testament.

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

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#55098

On 24 Aug 2018 18:54:00 GMT, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

> You feed the troll, you take 'em home. Or simply shake the dust from
> your feet and let that stand as a testament.

That's pretty good wisdom, with wit included for free.

However, while most (all?) of us are old men, very skilled at the potluck
picnic that is Usenet, with decades of experience bringing our potluck
wisdom, tens of thousands of threads, etc., most Usenet posters, IMHO,
don't seem to comprehend that there are two types of sincere posters on
Usenet.

a. Chit chatters
b. FAQ hit and run

The chit chatters comprise the bulk of the Usenet posters, by far.
Hence, most advice is aimed at the chit chatters.
That advice is perfectly valid for chit chatters. 

A chit chatter treats Usenet as something he does to talk to mostly the
same people each day, like he would if he want to a local coffee shop. 

Hence, the chit chatter posts, oh, something like 95% to 99% to other
people's threads, where everyone knows who he is, and it's not his thread,
so, he imparts his few sentences of wisdom, and then he's gone from that
thread forever (for the most part).

The chit chatter is not invested in that thread coming to a fruitful
factual outcome. He's just not. It's the nature of the use model.

*The FAQ model is completely different!*

It's far more rare, but it exists, where in the FAQ model, the poster posts
95% to 99% to threads he initiated, and only a tiny percentage to the
chit-chat threads.  

In the FAQ model, the OP is vested in the thread coming to a fruitful
factual outcome.

Then there are the trolls ... who are not "sincere" posters. 

The trolls are like people who come to the public potluck picnic just to
shit on the table as their "contribution". They shit on the table for the
reaction they get out of the sincere people.

Once a troll infests any thread, whether it's a chit chat thread or a FAQ
thread, the thread is already ruined. 

So what do you do?

If it's the chit-chat model, you don't feed the troll, which is easy peasy
to do since nobody is vested in the chit chat thread, so if it falls apart
without coming to a fruitful answer, who cares. 

But in the sincere FAQ thread, the trolls ruin any chance of that FAQ
thread of coming to a fruitful conclusion.

Strategically, the cowardly bully trolls like Joerg Lorenz ruin the thread,
and that's what they enjoy. 

But think about the OP's original question. It's dead, right?
So what *can* the OP do?

One thing, which I understand is not what most do (but most are chit
chatters, and please do not forget that key distinction) - is to confront
the cowardly bullies frontally.

BTW, that's not so far fetched, since it's common advice for cowardly
bullies because if you don't confront them, they'll be emboldened even more
so.

Does it work?
Meh.

There are two types (at least) of trolls (IMHO):
a. Those with a semblance of decency (e.g., nospam & Frank Slootweg), 
b. Those with no semblance of decency (e.g., Snit & Goodguy).

The method works very well on people like Frank Slootweg, who soon learn
that you're not going to take his bullshit - and then he turns into a
decent guy - but not until he realizes that all his bullshit will be
confronted frontally.

With nospam, it only kind of sort of works - since nospam is an inveterate
bullshitter - but it still works in that it tames his outrageous claims,
which indicates he still has a semblance of decency left.

With someone like Snit, it will never work. 

Q: Will confronting Joerg Lorenz' trolls frontally work?
A: It depends on whether he has any semblance of decency left.

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#55160

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 22:59:19 -0000 (UTC),
Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net>, in
<plq2k6$in$1@news.mixmin.net> wrote:

>  Q: Will confronting Joerg Lorenz' trolls frontally work?
>  A: It depends on whether he has any semblance of decency left.

Never appeal to a man's better nature. He may not have one. Always
appeal to his enlightend self-interest. Unless he's a nihilist, in
which case just nuke it from orbit.

That all said, the only leverage any of us have is the ye olde kill
file.

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

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