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Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile

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  Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-09 07:31 +0000
    Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 01:37 -0400
      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-10 07:46 +0000
        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 11:24 -0400
          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-10 18:56 +0000
            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 15:38 -0400
              Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-10 20:37 +0000
                Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 16:56 -0400
                Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 18:23 -0700
                  Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 21:31 -0400
                    Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 03:01 +0000
                      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 23:26 -0400
                        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 03:28 +0000
                          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 23:57 -0400
                            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 05:21 +0000
                              Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 01:35 -0400
                                Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-07-11 13:25 +0000
                                  Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 17:38 +0000
                          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 20:58 -0700
                            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 00:09 -0400
                              Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 05:24 +0000
                            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 05:23 +0000
                  Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 02:26 +0000
                    Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 22:37 -0400
                      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 03:06 +0000
                        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 23:26 -0400
                          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 03:33 +0000
                      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-07-11 13:27 +0000
                    Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 02:59 +0000
                      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 23:26 -0400
                        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 03:45 +0000
                          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 23:57 -0400
                            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 05:18 +0000
                              Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 01:35 -0400
                                Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-07-11 06:16 +0000
                                  Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 17:38 +0000
                                Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 17:39 +0000
                                  Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 14:09 -0400
                    Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 20:42 -0700
                      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 23:57 -0400
                        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 05:19 +0000
                          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 01:35 -0400
                            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 17:38 +0000
                              Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 14:09 -0400
                      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 05:32 +0000
                        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 01:35 -0400
                          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 17:37 +0000
                            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 14:09 -0400
                            Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-07-11 19:38 +0100
                      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-07-11 08:38 +0100
                        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 04:02 -0400
                        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 07:59 -0700
                          Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 12:01 -0400
                  Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-07-11 08:32 +0100
      Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-07-10 17:27 +0000
        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-10 13:37 -0400
        Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-10 19:04 +0000

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#31222 — Re: Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:42:28 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> What should a kid do when switching from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6?
> 
> celebrate.

I am happy for her. This kid is not technical, and she has always wanted an 
iPhone. Her sister was the one I had given an iPhone 3 I picked up off of 
Craigslist for many years ago, when it was permanently locked to AT&T so I 
had to jailbreak it just to get it to work with T-Mobile.

I gave this kid the Nexus 5, even though she would have preferred an 
iPhone. I just couldn't justify the cost difference for the compute power. 

Anyway, that's water under the bridge as that was more than two years ago, 
and now the Nexus 5 is giving her battery life problems galore, and, like 
the iPhone, you can't easily replace the battery.

She's ecstatic to finally have an iPhone, after all these years.
Let's hope the battery wasn't left dead for too long a time.
 
> it'd help if you knew more about it, such as with which carrier it was
> originally sold.

She has the phone now, and she went out tonight to see if Target had a 
lightning cable (it was the only store open until 11pm). So, I don't know 
yet if the iPhone6 will boot up as the battery was dead. Once it boots, I 
presume we can tell how much memory it has and what the previous carrier 
was.

>> She's not technical so she asked me for advice (since I gave her the Nexus
>> 5 and set it up for her). 
> 
> mistake #1

Heh heh ... I know a thing or two about organizing a phone, and she pretty 
much kept to the single-screen desktop, and I taught her to be very stingy 
with her personal information - so - she learned a few things.

Still - she can't be as stingy with data as I am, since sometimes giving 
Apple (or Google) your real name or real email has merit in terms of ease 
of use of the communications applications.

She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.

> a 'real' apple cable is not required. numerous third parties make mfi
> certified cables, which can be had for under $10.

Ah. Thanks. Yes. I had forgotten about MiFi or whatever it's called. That's 
the Apple certification process. I don't get good vibes from that process, 
but, I do agree with you that this is all she will actually need. I'll let 
her know this tomorrow. 

Thanks for that insight on the cable.
(I know with the iPad, Apple hates my 10-foot USB extension cables.)
 
> non-certified cables should be avoided, as they can sometimes cause
> problems (not always but she doesn't need to deal with it when it
> does).

Yup. I have had problems with cable extensions which work just fine for 
Android but which the iPads complain about constantly. SO I don't want her 
having to deal with that while she is in the beginning of her learning 
curve.

I'd just mail her one of my lightning cables, but she wanted to get it 
going tonight, so, I will ask tomorrow if she was able to get a cable at 
Target.

>> I also told her that her existing 3rd-party 2.4Amp USB charger should work
>> fine for the iPhone (AFAIK).
> 
> if it's usb charging spec compliant it will. some are and some are't.

Hmmmm.... 5 volts, 2.4 Amps. I gave it to her. I think it's a Belkin. It 
worked fine for the Android devices. 

What more do you need than 5 volts and 2.4 Amps?

>> Googling for the specs, it seems the iPhone uses a nano SIM card while the
>> Nexus 5 uses a micro SIM card, so I called T-Mobile who said they'd ship
>> her one for $15 when we're ready to make the switch.
> 
> go to a t-mobile store and they'll probably swap it for free.
> 
> or, cut it down to size. nano sims are slightly thinner but that
> doesn't matter in an iphone (it does in some other phones).\

Thank you for that advice. 

She actually asked me if I could do that because we had done it once before 
(maybe for the iPhone 3? I don't remember). 

We used a stamp-like cutter which cut the SIM into a micro SIM. We were 
even able to swap back and forth for a while until the opening in the SIM 
started wearing out.

Her original goal was to keep both phones and just switch the SIM card 
between them, which T-Mobile lets you do without question. 

But with one card being half the size of the other, I told her she had to 
pick one phone and stick with it. (She'll give her brother the old Nexus 5 
so it won't go to waste).

>> I already had her save her contacts to a Contacts.vcf on the Nexus 5 and I
>> had her install ES File Explorer on Android so that she could access that
>> file and email it to herself, which has been done.
>>
>> She's going to back up all her media files to her computer, so that's not
>> going to be a problem. 
> 
> as usual, you're doing it the hard way.
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201196>

I have never ported Android to iPhone 6 so I was just answering her 
question on how to save the contacts.

The article you suggest uses an Android App which seems to be robust. The 
only problem it's called "MOVE" to iOS, which I hope is "COPY" to iOS, for 
the sake of the safety of the data.

Note that the data is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier accessed on Android, so, if 
there's a glitch, we don't want to be stuck. I do realize she now must 
install iTunes on Windows (which would be a huge bummer to me but to her it 
probably won't be a big deal).

>> The glass isn't badly cracked, but I told her for about $100 we can
>> probably get that fixed (she probably won't bother as the crack is minor).
> 
> don't worry about it unless it affects day to day use.

The phone was dropped off tonight, and she said that she broke my phone 
glass more so than this one is broken (she had borrowed my phone once while 
skateboarding and cracked my glass).

So, I think we will take that advice to just ignore the broken glass for 
now.
 
>> I'm not sure what carrier was used for the previous phone as the SIM card
>> slot is apparently empty, so it could be T-Mobile or AT&T as far as I know,
>> so I'm not sure if all the frequencies are compatible nowadays.
> 
> that's a very important detail to find out.

I probably will know by tomorrow.

>> I think she will be forced to set up an iCloud account when she inserts her
>> SIM card into the iPhone, so, I told her to use her normal email address
>> for her iCloud account as that will make her communication life easier.
>> (Using a real email on a phone is not something "I" would do, but I would
>> recommend she "follow the rules" because she just wants it to work.)
> 
> it does't matter.

For a kid, I agree. They just punch buttons and don't think all that much 
about it. So, I'm not going to sweat the iCloud thing at all.
 
>> Since I'm familiar with the iPad, I pretty much know what software she'll
>> need, so, that isn't a problem.
> 
> no you don't.

I think I do. But I'm always open to opinions. I will see her in a month 
but until then, I'll tell her to put the same stuff on the phone that I 
have, and I'll help her organize it so that she can find stuff instantly.

In fact, I thought it hilarious that, in another thread, people were 
discussing how to "see" the little icons inside a folder! Ha! They have no 
idea what they're doing if they even *ask* that question.

Each folder is NAMED (so all you need is the name) and each folder is 
*always* in the same location (remember, there is only one screen always by 
design). So, each app is always exactly where you put it. 

The apps *never move*. 

So, if you put all your web browsers in a folder on the top left corner 
called, say, "Web Browsers", why on earth would you need to "see" the 
little tiny icons inside the folder? All your web browsers will always be 
in that spot. And all your web browsers will always be in the folder called 
"Web Browsers". 

It's so simple that anyone who says they need to see the little icons 
inside the folder doesn't get it. 

Anyway, she is well acquainted with a well designed desktop. She knows that 
you never install or save anything until you know ahead of time where you 
are going to put it. And like items always go in the same spot.

It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.
 
>> I'm just wondering if there are any technical gotchas we should be on the
>> lookout for *before* the switcheroo (particularly frequency issues)?
> 
> the only gotchas are the ones you'll manufacture because you do things
> the most convoluted way possible.

I think the main gotcha might be that if the phone is AT&T, then the 
frequencies may be different (I don't know yet) for T-Mobile for the 
highest speed on data.

I don't know of any other gotchas yet, unless the iPhone hasn't been 
factory reset. I don't think the iPhone was factory reset, so I will likely 
have to walk her through that process tomorrow when the phone has charged 
enough to boot up.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#31256

In article <nlq997$1nv7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>  
> > it'd help if you knew more about it, such as with which carrier it was
> > originally sold.
> 
> She has the phone now, and she went out tonight to see if Target had a 
> lightning cable (it was the only store open until 11pm). So, I don't know 
> yet if the iPhone6 will boot up as the battery was dead. Once it boots, I 
> presume we can tell how much memory it has and what the previous carrier 
> was.

why didn't the person who gave it to her include the cable?

> >> She's not technical so she asked me for advice (since I gave her the Nexus
> >> 5 and set it up for her). 
> > 
> > mistake #1
> 
> Heh heh ... I know a thing or two about organizing a phone, and she pretty 
> much kept to the single-screen desktop, and I taught her to be very stingy 
> with her personal information - so - she learned a few things.

mistake #2

> Still - she can't be as stingy with data as I am, since sometimes giving 
> Apple (or Google) your real name or real email has merit in terms of ease 
> of use of the communications applications.
> 
> She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.

itunes gift cards.

> > a 'real' apple cable is not required. numerous third parties make mfi
> > certified cables, which can be had for under $10.
> 
> Ah. Thanks. Yes. I had forgotten about MiFi or whatever it's called. That's 
> the Apple certification process. I don't get good vibes from that process, 
> but, I do agree with you that this is all she will actually need. I'll let 
> her know this tomorrow. 
> 
> Thanks for that insight on the cable.
> (I know with the iPad, Apple hates my 10-foot USB extension cables.)

usb extension cables are unsupported *everywhere*, as it violates the
usb spec.

they *might* work, but that has more to do with luck than anything else.


> >> I also told her that her existing 3rd-party 2.4Amp USB charger should work
> >> fine for the iPhone (AFAIK).
> > 
> > if it's usb charging spec compliant it will. some are and some are't.
> 
> Hmmmm.... 5 volts, 2.4 Amps. I gave it to her. I think it's a Belkin. It 
> worked fine for the Android devices. 
> 
> What more do you need than 5 volts and 2.4 Amps?

you don't need that much current.

the point is that if the charger is not compliant with the usb charging
spec, it won't charge the iphone or any other usb compliant devices.



> 
> >> I already had her save her contacts to a Contacts.vcf on the Nexus 5 and I
> >> had her install ES File Explorer on Android so that she could access that
> >> file and email it to herself, which has been done.
> >>
> >> She's going to back up all her media files to her computer, so that's not
> >> going to be a problem. 
> > 
> > as usual, you're doing it the hard way.
> > <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201196>
> 
> I have never ported Android to iPhone 6 so I was just answering her 
> question on how to save the contacts.
> 
> The article you suggest uses an Android App which seems to be robust. The 
> only problem it's called "MOVE" to iOS, which I hope is "COPY" to iOS, for 
> the sake of the safety of the data.

don't be stupid.

as you were told, it *migrates*. it does not delete the source. that
would be insanely stupid.

> Note that the data is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier accessed on Android, so, if 
> there's a glitch, we don't want to be stuck. I do realize she now must 
> install iTunes on Windows (which would be a huge bummer to me but to her it 
> probably won't be a big deal).

itunes on windows will make things ridiculously simple.


>  
> >> Since I'm familiar with the iPad, I pretty much know what software she'll
> >> need, so, that isn't a problem.
> > 
> > no you don't.
> 
> I think I do. 

you don't.

*she* knows what she needs. not you.

> But I'm always open to opinions. 

no you're not.

> I will see her in a month 
> but until then, I'll tell her to put the same stuff on the phone that I 
> have, and I'll help her organize it so that she can find stuff instantly.

mistake #3

> In fact, I thought it hilarious that, in another thread, people were 
> discussing how to "see" the little icons inside a folder! Ha! They have no 
> idea what they're doing if they even *ask* that question.
> 
> Each folder is NAMED (so all you need is the name) and each folder is 
> *always* in the same location (remember, there is only one screen always by 
> design). So, each app is always exactly where you put it. 

a decision *she* makes not you.

> The apps *never move*. 

nobody said they move on their own.

> So, if you put all your web browsers in a folder on the top left corner 
> called, say, "Web Browsers", why on earth would you need to "see" the 
> little tiny icons inside the folder? All your web browsers will always be 
> in that spot. And all your web browsers will always be in the folder called 
> "Web Browsers". 
> 
> It's so simple that anyone who says they need to see the little icons 
> inside the folder doesn't get it. 

what you don't get is that there's no need for a *folder* of multiple
web browsers. choose one browser, perhaps two, and put them on the
homescreen, not buried in a folder.

> Anyway, she is well acquainted with a well designed desktop. She knows that 
> you never install or save anything until you know ahead of time where you 
> are going to put it. And like items always go in the same spot.

the computer manages that better than humans ever could.

> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.

no. totally different use case.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31268

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:37:45 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> was.
> 
> why didn't the person who gave it to her include the cable?

Dunno. They didn't include the tuning-fork thingy to pull out the SIM card
either. Just the iPhone 6. And the battery was dead.

If someone gave "me" a 64GB iPhone 6 for free, I certainly wouldn't worry
about buying my own cable though, so, we're not worried. 

>> She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.
> itunes gift cards.

Who needs to pay for anything?
I realize I'm philosophically different than most of you, as I frequented
the freeware newsgroups for a decade or more, but, I get done what I need
to get done without spending a dime on anything.

I got my iPads for free (the young kids use them now), and the T-Mobile SIM
cards for them for free, and now she has an iPhone for free and T-Mobile
just today threw in a free SIM card for that (of course the phone service
is not free!).

I have probably 150 apps on my phones and probably 125 or so on the iPads
and they're all free and, in fact, they do what needs to be done, sometimes
far better than the payware or Appleware software does things (certainly
less restrictively).

Most don't have ads, e.g., I've never seen an ad in 90% of the software
that I have. 

> usb extension cables are unsupported *everywhere*, as it violates the
> usb spec.
> 
> they *might* work, but that has more to do with luck than anything else.

Well, they work, and my Android equipment is fine with the 10 foot USB
extensions - but the iPads complain. No big deal.

>> What more do you need than 5 volts and 2.4 Amps?
> 
> you don't need that much current.
> 
> the point is that if the charger is not compliant with the usb charging
> spec, it won't charge the iphone or any other usb compliant devices.

I don't read up on USB specs, so, I'll stay relatively simple with 5 volts
and as many amps as I can get being available. 

That way, the phone gets whatever it asks for.

>> In fact, I thought it hilarious that, in another thread, people were 
>> discussing how to "see" the little icons inside a folder! Ha! They have no 
>> idea what they're doing if they even *ask* that question.
>> 
>> Each folder is NAMED (so all you need is the name) and each folder is 
>> *always* in the same location (remember, there is only one screen always by 
>> design). So, each app is always exactly where you put it. 
> 
> a decision *she* makes not you.

That's a funny statement, when you think about it from the perspective of
the decisions Apple makes *for you*; but I don't wish to argue this point
because she's old enough now to make her own decisions, and I'm fine with
that.

She was even afraid to tell me that she got this iPhone but I was happy for
her. She will learn.

>> The apps *never move*. 
> 
> nobody said they move on their own.

They effectively do, on iOS, because you can't easily control what happens
when a new app is added, especially when you have a single desktop (which,
to me, is the only way to go). 

Anyway, we don't have to belabor the issue because we come from two
different corners of the philosophy of desktop organization.

> what you don't get is that there's no need for a *folder* of multiple
> web browsers. choose one browser, perhaps two, and put them on the
> homescreen, not buried in a folder.

You use the word "buried" but what you miss is that there's nothing
stopping anyone (including me) from putting an icon to an app on the
desktop. (Even I do it - in the dock, for example - for the most-used
apps).

However, I know usability better than anyone you've ever met in your life
(although you'll scoff at that notion), and in fact, I've shown you in the
past how extremely well organized my Linux and Windows desktops are,
including my menus, and my apps folders and my data folders (I never put
ANYTHING in program files, for example, on Windows).

I'm the most well organized person you've ever seen in your entire life.
So, the one thing I know is how to make tradeoffs on desktop setup.

If you're an average person, you make *different* tradeoffs than I do.
You would let the operating system put the icons where it wants and put the
files where it wants and then you'd need crutch after crutch after crutch
just to *find* your stuff.

That's what most people do.
And it's why, IMHO, operating systems resort to all sorts of cruft to try
to "automatically" organize, store, and locate people's data for them.

To you, that's the right paradigm. 
Fine. To each his own.

But to me, that paradigm is the main reason we have abominations in
operating systems such as any windows vintage or Canonical release in the
paste few years.

Android is even worse in many ways, than iOS, but they both suck at
allowing the user to control everything about where things go.
 

> the computer manages that better than humans ever could.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We come from different philosophical corners.
You think the computer should automatically put, save, store, and locate
files for people and I think people should put their own tools where they
want them.

We're philosophically of different mindsets.
I understand yours. You may understand mine.

No program gets to choose where I put "my" data if I can help it.
I don't need no stinking "search engine" just to find my own files.
And, everything on my desktop is in the same spot today as it was two years
ago (assuming it was there two years ago) and on the same spot in all my
devices so I *know* where everything is like I know the back of my hand.

Two different paradigms.
 
>> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.
> 
> no. totally different use case.

I know how to organize a toolbox, and I suspect most men do too.
Screwdrivers go in one area, pliers in another, box wrenches somewhere
else, and socket sets in another. Maybe you even keep metric and SAE
separate, as I do, and maybe you keep 1/4" and 3/8", and 1/2" socket sets
separate also (as I do).

That's how I organize my tool box.
That's how I organize my sock drawers.
And that's how I organize my desktop.

It's called "o-r-g-a-n-i-z-a-t-i-o-n".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31284

In article <nlsugn$19ak$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> >> was.
> > 
> > why didn't the person who gave it to her include the cable?
> 
> Dunno. They didn't include the tuning-fork thingy to pull out the SIM card
> either. Just the iPhone 6. And the battery was dead.

use a paper clip. 

the battery self-discharged, or the previous owner left it on and it
drained in a couple of days.

> If someone gave "me" a 64GB iPhone 6 for free, I certainly wouldn't worry
> about buying my own cable though, so, we're not worried. 
> 
> >> She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.
> > itunes gift cards.
> 
> Who needs to pay for anything?

for apps that cost money.

> I realize I'm philosophically different than most of you, as I frequented
> the freeware newsgroups for a decade or more, but, I get done what I need
> to get done without spending a dime on anything.

and you end up with a shitty experience.

it's not like a buck or two is going to break the bank.




> 
> >> The apps *never move*. 
> > 
> > nobody said they move on their own.
> 
> They effectively do, on iOS, because you can't easily control what happens
> when a new app is added, especially when you have a single desktop (which,
> to me, is the only way to go). 

nonsense.

the user puts apps wherever they want and they stays there.

what you call a single desktop is counterproductive. multiple
homescreens are very useful.


> 
> > what you don't get is that there's no need for a *folder* of multiple
> > web browsers. choose one browser, perhaps two, and put them on the
> > homescreen, not buried in a folder.
> 
> You use the word "buried" but what you miss is that there's nothing
> stopping anyone (including me) from putting an icon to an app on the
> desktop. (Even I do it - in the dock, for example - for the most-used
> apps).

your homescreen is all folders.

> However, I know usability better than anyone you've ever met in your life
> (although you'll scoff at that notion), and in fact, I've shown you in the
> past how extremely well organized my Linux and Windows desktops are,
> including my menus, and my apps folders and my data folders (I never put
> ANYTHING in program files, for example, on Windows).

you know absolutely *nothing* about usability and insist on doing
things in the most difficult way possible

> I'm the most well organized person you've ever seen in your entire life.
> So, the one thing I know is how to make tradeoffs on desktop setup.
> 
> If you're an average person, you make *different* tradeoffs than I do.
> You would let the operating system put the icons where it wants and put the
> files where it wants and then you'd need crutch after crutch after crutch
> just to *find* your stuff.

where the hell did you get that idea?

the user always puts the icons where *they* want.



> >> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.
> > 
> > no. totally different use case.
> 
> I know how to organize a toolbox, and I suspect most men do too.
> Screwdrivers go in one area, pliers in another, box wrenches somewhere
> else, and socket sets in another. Maybe you even keep metric and SAE
> separate, as I do, and maybe you keep 1/4" and 3/8", and 1/2" socket sets
> separate also (as I do).
> 
> That's how I organize my tool box.
> That's how I organize my sock drawers.
> And that's how I organize my desktop.
> 
> It's called "o-r-g-a-n-i-z-a-t-i-o-n".

it's called ocd.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31319

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:24:28 -0400, nospam wrote:

> use a paper clip. 

Yep. But it's a *small* paper clip.
I told her *not* to use a sharp needle.
I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
Can it?

> the battery self-discharged, or the previous owner left it on and it
> drained in a couple of days.

Yeah. My only worry is that the battery is "bad" since she's ditching the
Nexus 5 mainly because it was getting flaky on her with respect to battery
life.

But so far, it's charged up so, time will tell. 
She's ecstatic to get an iPhone 6 for free since it's something she always
wanted. 

The fact she's willing to give me back the Nexus 5 in a heartbeat tells the
whole story right there.


>> Who needs to pay for anything?
> 
> for apps that cost money.

I have taught this child well.
She knows that Apple users pay more than twice as much, on average, on
in-app purchases than do Android users. She knows what a whale is when it
comes to games. And she knows that there is freeware for almost everything
you need.

Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
that they can get for free.

For example, T-Mobile tried to push the $15 for the nanosim on me, so I
just called back a day later and got it for free. 

Same as with a compass app or an offline map app or a host of utilities. 
You can pay for them.
Or you can get them for free.

Since I only choose the best apps, offhand I'd say 90% of my free aps have
zero ads, maybe even more than 90%. 

It takes intelligence and time to get value in a free app.
Any fool can be separated from their money on payware apps.

IMHO, there is *nothing* worth paying for by way of apps for Android or
iOS.

Name one thing, for example, that this kid would want, that is worth paying
for, that I can't get for her for free on either ecosystem?

> and you end up with a shitty experience.
> it's not like a buck or two is going to break the bank.

We've been down that road.

There's *nothing* you have, that I want, that I don't have for free
already.

As you know from the stats, Apple users pay 2.5 times more (on average) on
in-app purchases than do Android users, so, the entire "personality cult"
or whatever you call it of the Apple ecosystem is geared toward nickle and
diming Apple customers forever. 

Heck, you even have to rent your own data back, once you go over the puny
limit they give you, as compared to what you can get for free on the cloud
(not that I'd ever put any data on the cloud myself).

 
> nonsense.
> the user puts apps wherever they want and they stays there.

Then you know absolutely nothing about the average Apple user.

> what you call a single desktop is counterproductive. multiple
> homescreens are very useful.

Then you know absolutely nothing about desktop organization.
 
> your homescreen is all folders.

No it's not. There are the most-used apps in the dock, for example. 
Besides, it's my choice to use folders because they work well.

What I realize is that people don't *understand* the use model.
They *think* (hugely erroneously) that you "read" the app icons inside the
folders. Huh? They're operating under huge misunderstandings.

SO, they compare what they "think" is a use model to theirs, and they end
up making bad comparisons simply because they have no concept of a good use
model.

There is no way I even *look* at the icons on the folder becuase I *know*
every single app which is inside that folder. It's the same on ALL my iOS
devices, and on all the iOS devices that I set up for others (for the most
part) and even the same on Android (only better organized becuase Android
allows better organization than does iOS).

That you don't understand the use model does not make it "counter
productive". It just means you don't understand the use model because
anyone who thinks you have to read the icons inside the folder doesn't
understand the use model.

> you know absolutely *nothing* about usability and insist on doing
> things in the most difficult way possible

I know where *all* my files and apps are, and guess what?
I know where they go even before I put them there. 

And guess what?
I don't need to resort to the kluge of a search engine to find them.

> where the hell did you get that idea?
> the user always puts the icons where *they* want.

Heh heh ... go on thinking that.

> it's called ocd.

It probably is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31327

In article <nlu5o4$vu1$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> > use a paper clip. 
> 
> Yep. But it's a *small* paper clip.

any normal paper clip works

the really huge paper clips won't, nor will plastic ones, for obvious
reasons.

> I told her *not* to use a sharp needle.

that works fine too

> I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
> Can it?

no.

it's just a push lever.

> > the battery self-discharged, or the previous owner left it on and it
> > drained in a couple of days.
> 
> Yeah. My only worry is that the battery is "bad" since she's ditching the
> Nexus 5 mainly because it was getting flaky on her with respect to battery
> life.

lithium ion batteries don't like being fully discharged.


> 
> >> Who needs to pay for anything?
> > 
> > for apps that cost money.
> 
> I have taught this child well.

doubtful

> She knows that Apple users pay more than twice as much, on average, on
> in-app purchases than do Android users. She knows what a whale is when it
> comes to games. And she knows that there is freeware for almost everything
> you need.

don't start that bullshit again.

> Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
> that they can get for free.

not the same functionality, they don't.



> > and you end up with a shitty experience.
> > it's not like a buck or two is going to break the bank.
> 
> We've been down that road.
> 
> There's *nothing* you have, that I want, that I don't have for free
> already.

that's because you are satisfied with shitty products.

as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

> As you know from the stats, Apple users pay 2.5 times more (on average) on
> in-app purchases than do Android users, so, the entire "personality cult"
> or whatever you call it of the Apple ecosystem is geared toward nickle and
> diming Apple customers forever. 

bullshit.

> Heck, you even have to rent your own data back, once you go over the puny
> limit they give you, as compared to what you can get for free on the cloud
> (not that I'd ever put any data on the cloud myself).

more bullshit.

your data is always yours, no rent involved.


> > nonsense.
> > the user puts apps wherever they want and they stays there.
> 
> Then you know absolutely nothing about the average Apple user.

*you* know nothing about how apple products work.

nothing moves on its own.

> > what you call a single desktop is counterproductive. multiple
> > homescreens are very useful.
> 
> Then you know absolutely nothing about desktop organization.

wrong

> > your homescreen is all folders.
> 
> No it's not. 

yes it is.

this is *your* screenshot of *your* homescreen:
<http://i.cubeupload.com/KxXVFt.jpg>

*all* folders.

> There are the most-used apps in the dock, for example. 
> Besides, it's my choice to use folders because they work well.

the dock is not the homescreen. 


> > you know absolutely *nothing* about usability and insist on doing
> > things in the most difficult way possible
> 
> I know where *all* my files and apps are, and guess what?
> I know where they go even before I put them there. 
>

there's no fucking way you can know where all of your files are.

on my hard drive right now, there are well over 1 *million* files. it's
not possible for *anyone* to know all of what's there and where they
are.

the computer can find exactly what i want far faster than any human
ever could.

> And guess what?
> I don't need to resort to the kluge of a search engine to find them.

there's nothing kludgey about a search engine.

a computer can find stuff far faster than humans can.


> > where the hell did you get that idea?
> > the user always puts the icons where *they* want.
> 
> Heh heh ... go on thinking that.

it's a fact

> > it's called ocd.
> 
> It probably is.

it definitely is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31340

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:38:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
>> Can it?
> 
> no.
> 
> it's just a push lever.

Thanks for that information. 
She found a small paper clip and when she pulled out the SIM card, it was
Verizon branded. 
 
 
> lithium ion batteries don't like being fully discharged.

Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6. 

I'm so happy for her, because she *always wanted* an iPhone!
Now she has it.

It will be interesting to talk to her about it in six months to a year,
where she can compare the two ecosystems.

I suspect she will "notice" a few things, but that she'll be happier with
the Apple Ecosystem.
  

>> Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
>> that they can get for free.
> 
> not the same functionality, they don't.

Everything in that statement depends on the details.
I've known people who pay for Windows screenshot programs (instead of
pressing "print screen")
Or for Twain scanners (instead of using IrfanView freeware).
Or for DVD burner software (instead of using ImgBurn freeware).

So, I know of people pay for stuff that they can get for free.
The devil is in the details.


> that's because you are satisfied with shitty products.
> as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

You are welcome to suggest a functionality that I actually need that I
don't already have for free.

Remember, I have USGS topo map breadcrumbing programs for free; I have
wifie graphical scanners for free; I have offline roadmap apps with Navtech
and Google maps for free; I have automatic call recorders for free; I have
VPN apps for free; I even have VPN servers for free; I have Usenet services
entirely for free; I have second-phone line apps for free; I have turned my
iPad into a speakerphone that acts exactly like a real phone for free; I
have fully-customizable keyboards for free (where I can define my own
keys!); I have file system explorers for free; I have file directors for
free; I have wardriving scanners for free; I have network scanners for
free; I have non-cloud app archivers for free; I have pcap and wireshark
network sniffers for free; I have contact list optimizers for free; I have
the ability to turn off app access to whatever I want for free; and I have
any launcher I desire for free.

What do you pay for, that I'd want, that I don't already have, for free?

> this is *your* screenshot of *your* homescreen:
> <http://i.cubeupload.com/KxXVFt.jpg>
> 
> *all* folders.

Except where it's not. :)

Everything is one tap away - such as the voice recorder, or two taps away,
such as the web browser.

And everything is in the same spot on this iPad as every other iPad I own.
And even in the same folder names on Android. 

It's all my choice. Folders or app icons on the desktop.

You'll notice that I can fit on a single desktop screen even folders of
apps I'm testing (such as the artist apps or the dashcam apps), which when
I'm done testing, will simple be an app inside some other folder.

>> There are the most-used apps in the dock, for example. 
>> Besides, it's my choice to use folders because they work well.
> 
> the dock is not the homescreen. 

Which is a mere technicality when you have a single pane in the homescreen.
 
> there's no fucking way you can know where all of your files are.

That means you don't understand the system.

What you just said was akin to saying:
a. There's no fucking way you can know where all your tools are.
b. There's no fucking way you can know where all your office supplies are.
c. There's no fucking way you can know where all your foodstuffs are.
etc.

It just mean you don't understand the file system, which, I guess, is why
you misunderstand everything that has to do with it.
 
> on my hard drive right now, there are well over 1 *million* files. it's
> not possible for *anyone* to know all of what's there and where they
> are.

You're being disingenuous.

If you asked me where my HOSTS file is on Windows or Linux, I knwo where it
is because I use the hosts file.

If you asked me where some temporary file used for DNS cache is, then I
wouldn't know (nor care) where that is because I don't use that DNS cache
temporary file.

If you asked me where a certain memo was, I would tell you it's in 
c:\data\doc\memos\
Just as if you asked for my tax records from five years ago, it would be
in:
c:\data\finance\tax\tax2010

That's on *any* computer in my entire household, mind you, since they *all*
have the same organization (no matter which Windows or Linux version they
may be). 

Same idea with Android and iOS although the limitations are vastly more
severe on iOS and not that much better on Android.
 
> there's nothing kludgey about a search engine.
> a computer can find stuff far faster than humans can.

You missed the entire philosophical point of why I believe operating
systems from Apple/Google/Microsoft/Canonical, etc. provide the user with
kluge after kluge after kluge after kluge just so the user can find their
stuff.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31341

In article <nlubm4$19mq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> >> I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
> >> Can it?
> > 
> > no.
> > 
> > it's just a push lever.
> 
> Thanks for that information. 
> She found a small paper clip and when she pulled out the SIM card, it was
> Verizon branded. 

what did you expect to find? it's a verizon phone so obviously it will
have a verizon sim.

> > lithium ion batteries don't like being fully discharged.
> 
> Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
> SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6. 

it'll probably be a few days. it'll likely ship mon/tue and arrive by
thursday.

> I'm so happy for her, because she *always wanted* an iPhone!
> Now she has it.
> 
> It will be interesting to talk to her about it in six months to a year,
> where she can compare the two ecosystems.
> 
> I suspect she will "notice" a few things, but that she'll be happier with
> the Apple Ecosystem.

probably.

> >> Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
> >> that they can get for free.
> > 
> > not the same functionality, they don't.
> 
> Everything in that statement depends on the details.
> I've known people who pay for Windows screenshot programs (instead of
> pressing "print screen")
> Or for Twain scanners (instead of using IrfanView freeware).
> Or for DVD burner software (instead of using ImgBurn freeware).

those apps do more.

> So, I know of people pay for stuff that they can get for free.
> The devil is in the details.

the details are that free apps generally do much less than paid apps
and are of a lesser quality.

there are a few exceptions but not very many.

> > that's because you are satisfied with shitty products.
> > as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.
> 
> You are welcome to suggest a functionality that I actually need that I
> don't already have for free.

you live in the dark ages, doing things in the most difficult way
possible.



> 
> It's all my choice. Folders or app icons on the desktop.

the problem is you think that's how everyone else should do it.

each person gets to decide what *they* want.

>  
> > there's no fucking way you can know where all of your files are.
> 
> That means you don't understand the system.

much better than you ever will.

> What you just said was akin to saying:
> a. There's no fucking way you can know where all your tools are.
> b. There's no fucking way you can know where all your office supplies are.
> c. There's no fucking way you can know where all your foodstuffs are.
> etc.

no

i don't have 1 million tools, office supplies or foodstuffs.

i do have 1 million files, and that's on *one* hard drive.

> It just mean you don't understand the file system, which, I guess, is why
> you misunderstand everything that has to do with it.

not only do i understand the file system much better than you ever will
but i also understand its limitations, which are numerous.

> > on my hard drive right now, there are well over 1 *million* files. it's
> > not possible for *anyone* to know all of what's there and where they
> > are.
> 
> You're being disingenuous.

nope.

>  
> > there's nothing kludgey about a search engine.
> > a computer can find stuff far faster than humans can.
> 
> You missed the entire philosophical point of why I believe operating
> systems from Apple/Google/Microsoft/Canonical, etc. provide the user with
> kluge after kluge after kluge after kluge just so the user can find their
> stuff.

nope.

they provide ways to go beyond the limitations of the file system.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31346

On 07/10/2016 01:37 PM, Aardvarks wrote:

> Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
> SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6.

The T-Mobile store gave me a choice -- buy a nanoSIM for $15 (they would 
dupe my current full-size one) or let them clip off my full-size one to 
fit for free.  I chose the free option.  They have a tool, but I suspect 
you could do it yourself.

> You'll notice that I can fit on a single desktop screen even folders of
> apps I'm testing (such as the artist apps or the dashcam apps), which when
> I'm done testing, will simple be an app inside some other folder.

How do you get "folders"?  I think I might like that rather than 6 pages 
of home-screen apps which are a nuisance to arrange and remember where I 
put stuff.  Only 4x4 icons/page (plus 4 in the tray along with the 
'apps' button), which is annoying.  Different launcher, perhaps?

I normally hate hierarchies -- I like to see everything at once -- but 
I'd be willing to use folders if *I* designed them.  I really hate 
trying to guess where somebody else put something when I only use the 
device every few months, which is why my windows[95] desktop was quite 
crowded when it was my main computer

> You missed the entire philosophical point of why I believe operating
> systems from Apple/Google/Microsoft/Canonical, etc. provide the user with
> kluge after kluge after kluge after kluge just so the user can find their
> stuff.

Try linux -- The penguin will let you lose or destroy your stuff at will 
and will laugh at your tears!

-- 
Cheers, Bev
      Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31348

In article <nlusfg$s1v$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> > Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
> > SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6.
> 
> The T-Mobile store gave me a choice -- buy a nanoSIM for $15 (they would 
> dupe my current full-size one) or let them clip off my full-size one to 
> fit for free.  I chose the free option.  They have a tool, but I suspect 
> you could do it yourself.

next time, go to a different store.

nano sims are actually slightly thinner, although it may not matter in
some phones. if it doesn't now, it might in a future phone and you'll
need yet another new sim.

they also don't dupe it. sims cannot be duped. they activate a new sim
and the old one gets tossed. it takes less than a minute.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31353

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:31:59 -0400, nospam wrote:

> next time, go to a different store.
> 
> nano sims are actually slightly thinner, although it may not matter in
> some phones. if it doesn't now, it might in a future phone and you'll
> need yet another new sim.
> 
> they also don't dupe it. sims cannot be duped. they activate a new sim
> and the old one gets tossed. it takes less than a minute.

Nospam is right.

Since I found the SIMS are free when I use the phone, they activate them
over the phone (they ask for your IMEI and some numbers on the SIM card
which are too tiny for my eyes to read so I ask the kids to read them out
for me) and then the SIM just works.

I have a jar of old SIM cards somewhere ... 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31357

In article <nlv262$63q$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> I have a jar of old SIM cards somewhere ... 

if they're t-mobile sims, they're likely expired.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31359

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 23:26:33 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> I have a jar of old SIM cards somewhere ... 
> 
> if they're t-mobile sims, they're likely expired.

How'd you know that?

I had a burner phone, where I put the $100 in to be a "Gold" member, and it
expired (I lost all the money) at some point because I found out about
those apps that add a phone line so I don't need the burner phones anymore.

But at one point, I wanted to list something in the paper, and I tried to
add money to the old SIM card in the T-Mobile burner phone, and you are
correct in that they "expired".

Now I argued with them that it was only about a year old - but they said
they can't activate it.

What's special here about a SIM card that it "expires"?
What the heck expires anyway?

And why do you intimate it's just T-mobile?
Why not AT&T?

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#31364

In article <nlv3pi$7jk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> >> I have a jar of old SIM cards somewhere ... 
> > 
> > if they're t-mobile sims, they're likely expired.
> 
> How'd you know that?

because i know a lot about the cellular industry.

> I had a burner phone, where I put the $100 in to be a "Gold" member, and it
> expired (I lost all the money) at some point because I found out about
> those apps that add a phone line so I don't need the burner phones anymore.

i have a gold account that i add $10 every year. 

> But at one point, I wanted to list something in the paper, and I tried to
> add money to the old SIM card in the T-Mobile burner phone, and you are
> correct in that they "expired".
> 
> Now I argued with them that it was only about a year old - but they said
> they can't activate it.
> 
> What's special here about a SIM card that it "expires"?
> What the heck expires anyway?
> 
> And why do you intimate it's just T-mobile?

they're the only carrier i know of where sims expire. same for their
reload cards.

> Why not AT&T?

different carrier. different setup.

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#31372

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 23:57:42 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> I had a burner phone, where I put the $100 in to be a "Gold" member, and it
>> expired (I lost all the money) at some point because I found out about
>> those apps that add a phone line so I don't need the burner phones anymore.
> 
> i have a gold account that i add $10 every year. 

Yeah. The rules were that the one year was from the last update, so that's
what you're doing.

They don't do the "gold" account stuff anymore at T-Mobile, at least for
new accounts, but, maybe you're grandfathered in.

> they're the only carrier i know of where sims expire. same for their
> reload cards.

Interesting. Thanks for that information.
Yeah. The first time my SIM "expired" I was livid.
I mean, what's in a SIM card that can expire.

>> Why not AT&T?
> 
> different carrier. different setup.

I get that - but I don't see the MARKETING advantage of expiring SIM cards.
I mean, what's the commercial advantage that it gives T-Mobile?

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#31377

In article <nlvad6$e95$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> They don't do the "gold" account stuff anymore at T-Mobile, at least for
> new accounts, but, maybe you're grandfathered in.

yes they do

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#31403

In message <110720160135574693%nospam@nospam.invalid> 
  nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <nlvad6$e95$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
> <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>> They don't do the "gold" account stuff anymore at T-Mobile, at least for
>> new accounts, but, maybe you're grandfathered in.

> yes they do

Only if you signed up for PAYGO before 17 Aug 2014.

<https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-2185>

-- 
The reaper does not listen to the harvest. --Reaper Man

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#31434

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 13:25:32 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

>>> They don't do the "gold" account stuff anymore at T-Mobile, at least for
>>> new accounts, but, maybe you're grandfathered in.
> 
>> yes they do
> 
> Only if you signed up for PAYGO before 17 Aug 2014.
> 
> <https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-2185>

Thanks for finding that because I *tried* to start a new Gold account, and
the T-Mobile store told me they don't do it anymore as did the T-Mobile rep
I called.

Too bad. It was too good to be true.
It's smart that both nospam and Bev are grandfathered/grandmothered in!

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#31367

On 07/10/2016 08:28 PM, Aardvarks wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 23:26:33 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>>> I have a jar of old SIM cards somewhere ...
>>
>> if they're t-mobile sims, they're likely expired.
>
> How'd you know that?
>
> I had a burner phone, where I put the $100 in to be a "Gold" member, and it
> expired (I lost all the money) at some point because I found out about
> those apps that add a phone line so I don't need the burner phones anymore.

Ha.  I'm very careful to make sure we pay our $10/year on time, 
especially since they don't offer that plan any more and have 
grandfathered us in.  It's absolutely perfect for the amount of phoning 
I do.  No data plan, but I don't feel the lack thereof very often.  It 
would be nice to have occasionally, but not for what the cheapest one 
charges.

> But at one point, I wanted to list something in the paper, and I tried to
> add money to the old SIM card in the T-Mobile burner phone, and you are
> correct in that they "expired".

I think they stopped offering that plan 2 years ago.  "Expired" may 
refer to that pre-paid plan, not the SIM itself.

> Now I argued with them that it was only about a year old - but they said
> they can't activate it.
>
> What's special here about a SIM card that it "expires"?
> What the heck expires anyway?
>
> And why do you intimate it's just T-mobile?
> Why not AT&T?

Who cares what AT&T does?  Damn crooks!

-- 
Cheers, Bev
   "Look again at that dot.  That's here.  That's home.  That's us.  On it
   everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every
   human being who ever was, lived out their lives."         -- Carl Sagan

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#31368

In article <nlv5gc$g9c$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> > But at one point, I wanted to list something in the paper, and I tried to
> > add money to the old SIM card in the T-Mobile burner phone, and you are
> > correct in that they "expired".
> 
> I think they stopped offering that plan 2 years ago.  "Expired" may 
> refer to that pre-paid plan, not the SIM itself.

it's the sim.

> > What's special here about a SIM card that it "expires"?
> > What the heck expires anyway?
> >
> > And why do you intimate it's just T-mobile?
> > Why not AT&T?
> 
> Who cares what AT&T does?  Damn crooks!

no different than any other carrier.

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