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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #155580 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-09-03 16:30 +0930 |
| Last post | 2026-09-08 22:30 +0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 142 — 19 participants |
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Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-03 16:30 +0930
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-03 08:09 +0000
Apple tracking of WLAN APs (was: Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-03 11:19 +0100
Re: Apple tracking of WLAN APs (was: Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy) Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-04 22:58 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-04 02:27 +0930
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-03 20:46 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 06:15 +0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-05 00:34 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:05 +0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-05 01:47 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:00 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-05 17:49 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 16:14 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-06 00:06 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-06 13:39 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-06 15:37 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-06 20:23 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 02:16 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 13:42 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 21:06 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 19:11 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 21:29 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 05:58 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:57 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 21:28 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 06:38 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:48 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 22:36 +0400
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 10:09 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 15:28 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 00:46 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 06:58 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 07:39 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 08:58 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 10:18 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 12:02 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 02:01 -0400
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-07 01:47 -0500
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-07 10:18 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 13:30 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 21:22 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 22:28 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 01:50 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 07:29 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 07:22 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 07:24 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-08 10:44 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 13:27 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 09:47 -0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 19:51 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-09-08 10:23 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-08 18:12 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 22:18 +0400
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-09-09 19:46 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-10 09:38 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-10 10:21 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 07:45 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-09-11 09:49 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-11 19:29 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 20:26 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-25 23:43 +0800
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-09-25 13:14 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-26 04:41 +0800
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-25 22:17 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-26 07:26 +0800
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 18:59 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 21:20 +0400
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 19:37 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-09-08 17:56 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 20:03 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 11:11 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-08 19:26 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 11:36 -0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 20:05 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-08 20:35 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 19:06 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 10:47 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 13:34 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 18:48 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 18:46 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-07 14:04 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:47 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-09-05 01:11 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:24 +0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-04 23:15 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:18 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 16:40 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 02:40 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:09 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:12 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:13 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:14 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:16 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:18 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 04:23 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 19:03 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-06 11:57 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 11:01 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 15:14 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-06 01:06 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-06 18:10 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-06 20:27 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:31 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 13:52 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-05 06:44 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:35 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-03 15:48 -0700
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2026-09-04 02:02 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:46 +0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-04 10:28 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-04 11:44 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-04 13:44 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 06:55 +0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 20:28 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 21:45 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 21:28 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 07:38 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:54 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-04 22:58 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:13 +0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 07:57 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:48 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-05 12:13 -0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 15:18 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-05 12:25 -0600
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 16:22 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 00:11 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-05 09:17 +0100
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 11:22 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 15:13 -0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 07:55 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 07:50 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 07:10 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:58 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 21:00 +0400
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 21:26 +0000
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-06 20:39 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 08:07 +0300
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 10:04 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-08 13:03 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 13:38 +0200
Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 22:30 +0400
Page 7 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 Next page →
| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 07:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <117gi0p$1b2mm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155630 |
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote: > Chris wrote: >> Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote: >>> This is an update to the WPS scripts that I posted a few months ago. >> >> I was wondering how you got on with your "experiment" only the other day. >> >> You said you had installed two routers in friends' houses downtown, move >> them around and then track the movement in the database. >> >> I'd like to see the results. How often did you move them, how far, and were >> the details tracked in the "apple database"? > > Hi Chris, > > Thanks for remembering that I ran a 3-router experiment early in the year. > > That experiment was run in the first month of the year, which was before > Apple changed their documentation saying that they will track us forever. > <https://support.apple.com/en-ie/102515> > > Those BSSIDs are now in Apple's WPS database, so the experiment worked. That wasn't the experiment. > Now, anywhere in the world I move those routers, anyone can track them. That's not answering my question. Did you move them and what did you see? Remember your claim was that you could track people from California to Florida using only their router. > Instantly. Evidence? > Down to a meter or so resolution. > With no controls whatsoever. What did you test? > Think about that. > What if I were hiding from an ex-wife or disgruntled Apple poster? Just get a different router. > Anyone on the planet can track my router location from anywhere in the > world down to meter-like accuracy, and I simply cannot stop them. No-one knows which, of the billions of entries in the databases, is *your* router. No big deal. > The only thing I can do, once my BSSID is in Apple's WPS database, is throw > that router over the next bridge because I can't change the BSSID on it. > > I can be tracked forever, if my location is associated with that router. > > Just like the research paper said it would be. > I simply reproduced exactly what the research paper said was possible. > > Worse, I proved hiding the BSSID broadcast was a catch-22 situation. > a. It kept the BSSID out of Google/Mozilla hands (they're well behaved) > b. Yet, it's permanently in the Apple WPS database > > Which do you pick to be in, given you can't solve both issues at once? > > HINT: Apple's WPS database has no protection whatsoever, as proved by: > *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* > <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975> > > My research *started* with that paper, and took it to the next level.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 14:48 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <117hklq$ljt$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #155638 |
Chris wrote:
>> What if I were hiding from an ex-wife or disgruntled Apple poster?
>
> Just get a different router.
Chris,
I realize your only goal is to defend Apple's honor to the death, no matter
what, but I only needed to prove two things, both of which are now obvious.
1. Apple's WPS database can be used by anyone in the world to track the
location of a router AP (by BSSID/GPS) without any restrictions.
2. Apple's refuses to honor the documented intent of a hidden-broadcast.
The fact you're desperate to dispute those facts in order to protect the
honor of your religious God is evident in the fact that the researchers
proved the first point, and Apple's *new* documentation proves the second.
Three simple questions for you, Chris:
Q1: What do you dispute about point #1 above, after reading this paper?
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
<https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
Q2: What do you dispute about point #2 above, after reading this new link?
<https://support.apple.com/en-ie/102515>
Only a religious zealot could possibly deny the veracity of those 2 facts.
Want to know what my third question asked of you is, Chris:
Q3: Would you kindly give me the BSSID of your home router AP please?
When/if you do so, not only will I provide the exact location of that
router (to the resolution of GPS) but I can track its movement, forever.
With no restrictions on that tracking (see point #1 above, for proof).
--
Everyone disputing this is doing so only on their religious belief system.
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| From | Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 12:13 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <117hm3u$1ns1p$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155655 |
Maria Sophia wrote: > Chris wrote: >>> What if I were hiding from an ex-wife or disgruntled Apple poster? >> >> Just get a different router. > > Chris, > > I realize your only goal is to defend Apple's honor to the death, no matter > what, but I only needed to prove two things, both of which are now obvious. > > 1. Apple's WPS database can be used by anyone in the world to track the > location of a router AP (by BSSID/GPS) without any restrictions. This is the same as: 5e) A few maggots are going at it eating an apple, and nearby there is a pumpkin in the field. I felt that since everyone was throwing analogies out there I'd try my hand too. There's only so far analogies can take you when you actually believe they are the same without a shred of proof.
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| From | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 15:18 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <117hme7$me2$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #155657 |
Lane W wrote:
>> 1. Apple's WPS database can be used by anyone in the world to track the
>> location of a router AP (by BSSID/GPS) without any restrictions.
>
> This is the same as:
>
> 5e) A few maggots are going at it eating an apple, and nearby there
> is a pumpkin in the field.
While I get your attempt to ridicule all that you can't comprehend, and I
can tell you haven't clicked on a single reference provided in this thread,
all I want to ask you, to prove the absurdity of your ignorance, is this:
*Give me your home router AP BSSID.*
I will return, to you, in seconds, not only the location of your router,
but I will give you the next 400 nearest router AP locations to you.
Then, after that, I can track not only everywhere you take that router,
forever, sans any restrictions, but those of your next 400 neighbors.
Take me up on that before you try to ridicule what you don't comprehend.
Q: What is your home router AP BSSID please?
A: ?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 12:25 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <117hmqc$1o53m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155660 |
Maria Sophia wrote: > Lane W wrote: >>> 1. Apple's WPS database can be used by anyone in the world to track the >>> location of a router AP (by BSSID/GPS) without any restrictions. >> >> This is the same as: >> >> 5e) A few maggots are going at it eating an apple, and nearby there >> is a pumpkin in the field. > > While I get your attempt to ridicule all that you can't comprehend, and I > can tell you haven't clicked on a single reference provided in this thread, > all I want to ask you, to prove the absurdity of your ignorance, is this: > > *Give me your home router AP BSSID.* > > I will return, to you, in seconds, not only the location of your router, > but I will give you the next 400 nearest router AP locations to you. > > Then, after that, I can track not only everywhere you take that router, > forever, sans any restrictions, but those of your next 400 neighbors. > > Take me up on that before you try to ridicule what you don't comprehend. > > Q: What is your home router AP BSSID please? > A: ? > I'm homeless and don't have a home router, so there's something further for you to laugh at me about.
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| From | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 16:22 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <117hq50$265g$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #155661 |
Lane W wrote: >> Q: What is your home router AP BSSID please? >> A: ? >> > I'm homeless and don't have a home router, so there's something further > for you to laugh at me about. I asked for your home router BSSID to prove a point that you won't give it to me, where if you did, I'd instantly know its location at any given time. The fact anyone can do that with simply python scripts running on Windows, shows how flawed Apple's WPS implementation is compared to that of Google. You can't do it with Google's WPS implementation. Nor that of Mozilla location services (now deprecated). Just Apple's. Which is why the Apple engineers had the Apple lawyers contacting me. Apple *knows* what they're doing is wrong.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-06 00:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <117ib47$1utmu$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155655 |
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote: > Chris wrote: >>> What if I were hiding from an ex-wife or disgruntled Apple poster? >> >> Just get a different router. > > Chris, Unfortunately you're being your disingenuous self and refusing to respond to genuine questions. I suspect your experiment at your friends' houses never happened. Which is a shame as it would have been interesting. > > Q3: Would you kindly give me the BSSID of your home router AP please? You already have it. Should be easy to find in your database. > When/if you do so, not only will I provide the exact location of that > router It would be simpler just to ask for my address... > but I can track its movement, forever. Won't be difficult as it never moves. I suspect the only time it'll move is when I throw it out.
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 09:17 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ng21dmFrq4pU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #155630 |
Maria Sophia wrote: > Anyone on the planet can track my router location from anywhere in the > world down to meter-like accuracy, and I simply cannot stop them. > > The only thing I can do, once my BSSID is in Apple's WPS database, is throw > that router over the next bridge because I can't change the BSSID on it. > > I can be tracked forever, if my location is associated with that router. I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone who hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live) discover what the BSSID of your router is?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 11:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <117gu1a$1f6cv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155639 |
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote: > Maria Sophia wrote: > >> Anyone on the planet can track my router location from anywhere in the >> world down to meter-like accuracy, and I simply cannot stop them. >> >> The only thing I can do, once my BSSID is in Apple's WPS database, is throw >> that router over the next bridge because I can't change the BSSID on it. >> >> I can be tracked forever, if my location is associated with that router. > > I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone who > hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live) > discover what the BSSID of your router is? Apparently it's a complete invasion of privacy in the same way google maps having actual pictures of his house and the phone book having his name, address *and* phone number isn't.
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| From | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-05 15:13 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <117hm4q$jdb$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #155642 |
Chris wrote:
>> I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone who
>> hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live)
>> discover what the BSSID of your router is?
>
> Apparently it's a complete invasion of privacy in the same way google maps
> having actual pictures of his house and the phone book having his name,
> address *and* phone number isn't.
Hi Andy and Chris,
I'm going to give you an example of how absurd your attempt at ridiculing
the documented situation is, using your own analogies, by way of impact.
Your questions are good ones, but it's getting tiresome to answer them over
and over and over and over and over and over again, so please think first.
The question is the wrong question, as it's kind of like asking what's so
dangerous about everyone in the world having your social security number.
You're essentially ridiculing privacy because, to you, a social security
number issued to you by the gov'ment, well, it's "just a number" after all.
One third of your argument ridiculing privacy is that you argue your
government-issued ID unique to you should be available to everyone.
To you, it's just a number.
It's not you.
It's just a number: 123.45.6789
How dangerous can a simple number be to your privacy, you argue.
That's the 1st third of your argument, attempting to ridicule privacy in
your desperate attempt to absolve your religious God of any responsibility.
By ridiculing the fact that a social security number is "just a number",
you also forget that in this case, that number is associated with your
exact GPS location (within the accuracy known for GPS, which is meters).
Even that doesn't change your opinion that a social security number, tied
to an exact GPS location, is "just a number" and "just a location on a
map".
So that's the 2nd third of your argument, which is that your location is
"just a map" and everyone in the world should be able to easily locate you.
You go further to ridicule that having a social security number and a GPS
location of where the person who owns that social security number is "just
a number and a map", you then try to ridicule the fact that anyone in the
world can access your social security number and where you are, from
anywhere else in the world.
That's the 3rd third of your argument attempting to absolve Apple of all
responsibility for the design of the Apple WPS system as described here.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
<https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
Did you read that paper?
Of course not.
Otherwise, you couldn't make your absurd accusations that a unique
government id tied to you, along with your exact location, is "just a
number" and "just a map".
To further show the absurdity of your attempt at ridiculing this issue, not
only can anyone in the world track your movements by social security number
and by location, but they can track EVERYONE in the world by their social
security number (or whatever unique government ID) by running a python
script on Windows 10 (assuming, I think we calculated, 2GB of storage).
That's the reason the paper says "mass surveillance".
You missed that point.
Why did you miss that point?
Because you didn't even click on the link.
You ridiculed that paper.
Without even reading it.
Wait, there's more.
In your attempt to ridicule the fact that anyone in the world can track
everyone in the world using a simple Windows 10 PC and a Python script
which we worked on together late last year, but now you're trying to
ridicule the fact that there are absolutely no restrictions on that lookup.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
<https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
But wait. There's more.
Not only are there no restrictions on the lookup of your government ID
number to your GPS location, but it collects the governemtn ID number and
the GPS locations of the closes 400 people to your location at any given
time.
Yes. Not one. Not two. Not ten. Not 100. But 400 of the closest people.
Now anyone in the world can track your exact location by your government ID
without any restrictions, and, they can track the next 400 closest
government IDs and locations, forever, again, with no restrictions.
Oh, there's more. Much more.
What if you do NOT want someone to even collect your government ID and
location and that of the next 400 closest governmetn Id's and locations?
What then?
What if, oh, say, you put black tape over your government ID.
What if you do that?
<https://ichnaea.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api/geosubmit2.html>
"Hidden Wifi networks must not be collected."
Will Google honor that black tape? Yes.
Will Mozilla location services honor that black tape? Yes.
Will Apple?
When I started this Windows10/Python testing in December, we did not know
the answer to that question, officially (as I knew the answer instantly).
Why did I know the answer instantly?
Because I ran the Python code on Windows 10.
I was shocked by what I found.
But I didn't know the "official" answer from Apple until I presented my
next door neighbor with the results, and he filed the RARAR bug report.
The answer came back, so now we know the official answer.
<https://support.apple.com/en-ie/102515>
In summary, until people show an understanding of the problem set, they
should hold off in their attempted ridicule that your unique government
identification number is "just a number" and your unique GPS location at
any given time is "just a map".
--
Most people can't process even simple things that they do not understand.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-06 07:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <117j69n$265iu$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155658 |
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote: > Chris wrote: >>> I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone who >>> hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live) >>> discover what the BSSID of your router is? >> >> Apparently it's a complete invasion of privacy in the same way google maps >> having actual pictures of his house and the phone book having his name, >> address *and* phone number isn't. > > Hi Andy and Chris, > > I'm going to give you an example of how absurd your attempt at ridiculing > the documented situation is, using your own analogies, by way of impact. Lol. The above is not an analogy. > Your questions are good ones, but it's getting tiresome to answer them over > and over and over and over and over and over again, so please think first. The reason why people ask the same questions is because you never answer them. Blaming others for your own limitations isn't going to change that. > The question is the wrong question, as it's kind of like asking what's so > dangerous about everyone in the world having your social security number. That's nothing like the same. Your SSN is specific to you as a person, is not information you broadcast, and should be collected securely. i.e. the opposite of a router MAC address. I reiterate, why is publicly available information like photos of your house and your name, address and phone number *not* an invasion of privacy? Or, worse, trackable information like your car's number plate?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 07:50 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <117o47g$267$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #155669 |
Chris wrote: > Or, worse, trackable information like your car's number plate? Hi Chris, I get it you are desperate to defend Apple to the death, no matter what... But that analogy of the car license plate in a Flock system is absurd. For anyone to claim that, means they didn't read the paper. *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975> Once you read that paper, you'll understand that the only analogy that works is if the Apple Flock system allows anyone in the world to not only track every single one of the billions of license:gps pairs in the world with zero restrictions on that Python code, but if that wasn't bad enough, the Apple flock system outputs the nearest 400 license:GPS pairs every time. Jon and I easily could track the movements of every single license plate in the world, using Apple's Flock camera system, if we felt like it, Chris. But we could NOT do it with Google's or Mozilla's Flock camera system. To understand why that is the case, read this paper before responding: *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 07:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <117oce1$3v1p2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155743 |
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote: > Chris wrote: >> Or, worse, trackable information like your car's number plate? > > Hi Chris, > I get it you are desperate to defend Apple to the death, no matter what... > But that analogy of the car license plate in a Flock system is absurd. It's notable to everyone here that you are consistently and obstinately not answering the core question. Why is the collection of public information that does not relate to an individual a privacy risk? The Flock issue is off topic here so the only thing I'll say is that this a consequence of lack of American's trust in government. That leaves the door open to commercial companies to collect data and sell it to government agencies with little to no oversight. In the UK we have the ANPR system which does the same thing, but is run by and for the law enforcement agencies. It's use is controlled and regulated. There are no issues. > For anyone to claim that, means they didn't read the paper. > *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* > <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975> > > Once you read that paper, I have and have understood it better than you.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 09:58 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <bqr4nmxl5i.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #155748 |
On 2026-09-08 09:10, Chris wrote: > Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote: >> Chris wrote: >>> Or, worse, trackable information like your car's number plate? >> >> Hi Chris, >> I get it you are desperate to defend Apple to the death, no matter what... >> But that analogy of the car license plate in a Flock system is absurd. > > It's notable to everyone here that you are consistently and obstinately not > answering the core question. Why is the collection of public information > that does not relate to an individual a privacy risk? > > The Flock issue is off topic here so the only thing I'll say is that this a > consequence of lack of American's trust in government. That leaves the door > open to commercial companies to collect data and sell it to government > agencies with little to no oversight. And the lack of data protection laws like the GDPR in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation > > In the UK we have the ANPR system which does the same thing, but is run by > and for the law enforcement agencies. It's use is controlled and regulated. > There are no issues. > >> For anyone to claim that, means they didn't read the paper. >> *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* >> <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975> >> >> Once you read that paper, > > I have and have understood it better than you. > -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 21:00 +0400 |
| Message-ID | <117pf03$2c2$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #155755 |
Carlos E.R. wrote: >> The Flock issue is off topic here so the only thing I'll say is that this a >> consequence of lack of American's trust in government. That leaves the door >> open to commercial companies to collect data and sell it to government >> agencies with little to no oversight. > > And the lack of data protection laws like the GDPR in Europe. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation I congratulate the folks in the EU for *forcing* plenty of improvements that the US capitalist system simply won't regulate, if for no other reason that the likes of Apple and Google are too formidable for the US to buck. We've discussed *many* of these improvements, from stating how long devices will be fully supported to correcting advertising lies about battery life. In this case, I'd love to have a government contact who *cares* about this problem, where think about how hard it is to explain to a non-techical person? It took, oh, maybe scores upon scores of posts to get people to even comprehend why their stone-age wifi knowledge doesn't prepare them for this. Even now, I suspect zero people, except me, on this thread, can outline the path of your home router BSSID to Apple's and Google database, and then, from there, to the Python code that both Jon and I proved scrapes Apple's. HINT: The path of the BSSID is *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT* between Apple:Google.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 21:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <117pui8$i49j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155755 |
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-09-08 09:10, Chris wrote: >> Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote: >>> Chris wrote: >>>> Or, worse, trackable information like your car's number plate? >>> >>> Hi Chris, >>> I get it you are desperate to defend Apple to the death, no matter what... >>> But that analogy of the car license plate in a Flock system is absurd. >> >> It's notable to everyone here that you are consistently and obstinately not >> answering the core question. Why is the collection of public information >> that does not relate to an individual a privacy risk? >> >> The Flock issue is off topic here so the only thing I'll say is that this a >> consequence of lack of American's trust in government. That leaves the door >> open to commercial companies to collect data and sell it to government >> agencies with little to no oversight. > > And the lack of data protection laws like the GDPR in Europe. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation Yup. Plus, automatic penalties for breaches. No court cases required. The UK's ICO regulator has the authority to fine up to 4% of *global* revenues!
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| From | "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-06 20:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <117kc2b$2k45e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155639 |
Andy, > I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone > who hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live) > discover what the BSSID of your router is? You forget that you're talking to Arlen here. He ignores everything that does not further his narrative, and than goes full-out on the crumbs that remain. What you mention there has been explained to him in the thread here [Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID] <10h1qmr$2alo$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> Regards, Rudy Wieser
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 08:07 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <117o57d$1mti$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #155682 |
R.Wieser wrote:
>> I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone
>> who hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live)
>> discover what the BSSID of your router is?
>
> What you mention there has been explained to him in the thread here
>
> [Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID]
> <10h1qmr$2alo$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
First, let's address Andy's point because Andy didn't read the paper,
so Andy thinks it's about individuals, and not about the masses.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
<https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
Let's simply apply Flock license-plate readers to that paper by
way of an analogy, but we have to modify the protections, which,
let's be clear, is the entire point of that paper.
A. Flock has protection
B. Google has protection
C. Apple has no protection
With that in mind, let's answer Andy's question using a Flock database.
Does a FLOCK camera need to know who the driver of the vehicle is?
Yes? or No?
What matters is the vehicle is in that spot, at that time, right?
Worse, what matters is ANYONE in the world can run the python script.
So anyone in the world knows all vehicle's locations at that time, right?
Oh, it gets worse.
Not only do they know all vehicle's location, but they get the nearest 400 vehicles every time they query just one vehicle. Google doesn't do that.
Only Apple does that.
But wait, it gets worse.
I wrote the Python code that gets the farthest away BSSID, and then gets the next 400 nearest vehicles. And the next. And the next, And the next.
Just like the researchers said, I could collect the location of every
single vehicle in the world, which is why it's *mass* surveillance.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
<https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
Andy... it's not "individual" surveillance in that title.
It's "mass" surveillance.
Big difference.
Now back to Rudy's offer of providing the message ID.
1. https://olduse.net/
2. https://article.olduse.net
3. Drat.
Message-ID: <10h1qmr$2alo$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
NOT FOUND
Let's try https://usenetarchives.com/
Drat. Failed.
Let's try https://www.ardent-tool.com/other/Links.html
https://csiph.com/search
Bingo!
https://csiph.com/group/alt.comp.os.windows-10/a/10h1qmr%242alo%241@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com
All my tutorials use freeware so that EVERYONE can use them, but I
wrote this tutorial before I found out about this Apple WPS query:
<https://wavedigger.networksurvey.app/?tab=bssid>
Hence, this tutorial is only useful if you want to control the query
of Apple's highly insecure WPS database, which has no privacy controls.
For example, you can query thousands of BSSID's in a single command.
I'm not promoting that action, but I'm making the point it can be done.
See also:
From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.internet.wireless
Subject: How to test if your access point BSSID is in the highly insecure Apple WPS database
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 05:08:08 -0700
Message-ID: <10guhv8$ig7$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Tutorial: *Query the Apple database for your access point BSSID*
<https://github.com/darkosancanin/apple_bssid_locator>
0. Download & install 7zip if you don't already have it on Windows.
<https://www.7-zip.org/>
1. Download & install Python 3.14.1 on Windows & create site-packages
<https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/>
<https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.14.1/python-3.14.1-amd64.exe>
Name: python-3.14.1-amd64.exe
Size: 29883656 bytes (28 MiB)
SHA256: 74E1516408744190FCC12307C150DE30902898444F77F85F4C2AC18F36788A80
I installed into C:\app\os\python\python.exe
REM Create site-packages if missing
mkdir C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages
2. Download the requests package & copy into your Python environment
<https://pypi.org/project/requests/#files>
<https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/source/r/requests/requests-2.32.5.tar.gz>
Name: requests-2.32.5.tar.gz
Size: 134517 bytes (131 KiB)
SHA256: DBBA0BAC56E100853DB0EA71B82B4DFD5FE2BF6D3754A8893C3AF500CEC7D7CF
When 7-Zip asks Would you like to replace the existing file
@PaxHeader, Press A (Always) to overwrite all such header files.
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar.gz
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar
xcopy /E /I requests-2.32.5\src\requests C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\requests
3. Do the same for urllib3 -> handles HTTP connections
<https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/source/u/urllib3/urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz>
Name: urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz
Size: 393185 bytes (383 KiB)
SHA256: 3FC47733C7E419D4BC3F6B3DC2B4F890BB743906A30D56BA4A5BFA4BBFF92760
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar
xcopy /E /I urllib3-2.5.0\src\urllib3 C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\urllib3
4. Do the same for certifi -> provides SSL certificates
<https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/source/c/certifi/certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz>
Name: certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz
Size: 160538 bytes (156 KiB)
SHA256: D8AB5478F2ECD78AF242878415AFFCE761CA6BC54A22A27E026D7C25357C3316
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar
xcopy /E /I certifi-2025.11.12\certifi C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\certifi
5. Do the same for idna -> supports international domain names
<https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/source/i/idna/idna-3.11.tar.gz
>
Name: idna-3.11.tar.gz
Size: 194582 bytes (190 KiB)
SHA256: 795DAFCC9C04ED0C1FB032C2AA73654D8E8C5023A7DF64A53F39190ADA629902
xcopy /E /I idna-3.11\idna C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\idna
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x idna-3.11.tar.gz
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x idna-3.11.tar
xcopy /E /I idna-3.11\idna C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\idna
6. Do the same for charset'normalizer -> handles text encoding
<https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/source/c/charset-normalizer/charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz>
Name: charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz
Size: 129418 bytes (126 KiB)
SHA256: 94537985111C35F28720E43603B8E7B43A6ECFB2CE1D3058BBE955B73404E21A
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar
xcopy /E /I charset_normalizer-3.4.4\src\charset_normalizer C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\charset_normalizer
7. Test for the expected outcome of "2.32.5"
C:\app\os\python\python.exe -c "import requests; print(requests.__version__)"
8. Now we have to add the protobuf 5.29.4 archive
https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/source/p/protobuf/protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz
Name: protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz
Size: 424902 bytes (414 KiB)
SHA256: 4F1DFCD7997B31EF8F53EC82781FF434A28BF71D9102DDDE14D076ADCFC78C99
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x protobuf-5.29.4.tar
xcopy /E /I protobuf-5.29.4\google C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\google
Note that protobuf has a version compatibility rule which only
shows up once you actually try to load a generated .proto file.
When you run the apple_bssid_locator.py, it will complain if the
version of protoc you installed is different than what had been
used to generate AppleWLoc_pb2.py.
9. Test for expected outcome of "5.29.4"
C:\app\os\python\python.exe -c "from google import protobuf; print(protobuf.__version__)"
10. Download & extract the Apple_bssid_locator project
<https://github.com/darkosancanin/apple_bssid_locator/archive/refs/heads/master.zip>
Name: apple_bssid_locator-master.zip
Size: 509563 bytes (497 KiB)
SHA256: 59A89D3AF89E70012493668BD71DD640C8EF39F15A88955E25B7AE242FCFC7BF
I extracted to C:\tmp\apple_bssid_locator-master\apple_bssid_locator.py
11. Obtain your own BSSID of your hidden SSID access point
<http://192.168.0.1/start.htm>
AA:BB:CC:11:22:33
Or scan your local network for BSSIDs:
netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid
12. Run the script
cd C:\tmp\apple_bssid_locator-master
C:\app\os\python\python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py AA:BB:CC:11:22:33
If the BSSID is in the Apple database, you'll get something like this:
{
"bssid": "AA:BB:CC:11:22:33",
"latitude": 40.12345678,
"longitude": -120.12345678
"ssid": null
}
Convert that to a location using the Google Maps URI:
<https://maps.google.com/?q=40.12345678,-120.12345678
If the BSSID is NOT in the Apple database, you'll get this:
C:\app\os\python\python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py AA:BB:CC:11:22:33
Searching for location of bssid: AA:BB:CC:11:22:33
The bssid was not found.
See also:
<https://github.com/acheong08/apple-corelocation-experiments>
--
<https://www.cs.umd.edu/~dml/papers/wifi-surveillance-sp24.pdf>
"In this work, we show that Apples WPS implementation
can easily be abused to create a serious privacy threat
on a global scale."
<https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
"In this work, we show that Apple's flawed WPS can too easily be abused"
<https://www.govinfosecurity.com/surveillance-risk-apples-wifi-based-positioning-system-a-25330>
"The attack risk stems from Apple's WiFi-based Positioning System, or WPS"
<https://securityboulevard.com/2024/05/apple-wi-fi-location-privacy-richixbw/>
"An unrestricted Apple API endpoint allows for easy tracking."
<https://cybernews.com/privacy/apple-beams-wifi-location-data-privacy-risk/>
"Anyone can exploit Apple's flawed WiFi-based positioning system (WPS)*
<https://www.macworld.com/article/2343297/apple-wi-fi-network-wps-vulnerability-location-services-leak.html>
"Researchers have discovered a crucial vulnerability
in the way only Apple's location services work"
<https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/23/apple_wifi_positioning_system/>
"The threat applies even to users that do not own devices
for which the WPSes are designed - individuals who own no Apple
products, for instance, can have their AP in Apple's WPS merely
by having Apple devices come within Wi-Fi transmission range."
<https://9to5mac.com/2024/05/24/apple-location-services-vulnerability/>
"There is one crucial difference between the way in which
Apple and Google devices carry out this task
and that's exactly where the privacy issue arises."
"We need to understand Apple devices figure out locations differently"
<https://www.bizcommunity.com/article/apple-may-have-turned-wi-fi-routers-into-a-privacy-threat-239637a>
"Researchers from the University of Maryland have uncovered a
significant privacy vulnerability in Apple's Wi-Fi-based
Positioning System (WPS). This vulnerability enables attackers
to track devices globally by exploiting the way Apple's WPS
operates, raising serious privacy concerns."
<https://cyberinsider.com/apples-wi-fi-based-positioning-system-is-a-privacy-nightmare/>
*Apple's Wi-Fi-Based Positioning System is a Privacy Nightmare*
"Researchers from the University of Maryland have uncovered a
significant privacy vulnerability in Apple's Wi-Fi-based Positioning
System (WPS). This vulnerability enables attackers to track devices
globally by exploiting the way Apple's WPS operates, raising
serious privacy concerns."
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Thread
Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-06 10:55 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Mario Tomasella <juhgtyui@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-06 20:08 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-06 14:00 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-07 01:45 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-08 20:47 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-14 02:05 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-14 02:52 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-15 05:21 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-15 12:48 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-17 02:34 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-17 02:52 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-17 03:29 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-18 14:29 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2025-12-18 16:43 -0500
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-19 00:01 -0500
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-21 17:55 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2025-12-21 20:25 -0800
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-21 21:49 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 15:08 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-22 09:30 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-22 10:39 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-19 04:06 -0500
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-22 10:20 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-19 10:14 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-19 12:01 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-21 21:32 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-22 09:12 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-22 10:52 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-22 19:34 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-24 11:00 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-24 21:38 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-26 19:23 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-27 19:27 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-27 19:44 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-28 10:11 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-28 10:41 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-28 22:10 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-28 17:12 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-12-28 19:03 -0600
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-29 08:09 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-29 01:16 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-29 11:32 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-29 04:14 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-29 13:43 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-30 12:07 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-29 07:32 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-29 01:23 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-29 11:46 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-29 04:26 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-29 14:11 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-21 20:35 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-22 06:28 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-22 10:44 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-22 06:41 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 09:27 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-22 10:48 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-22 18:00 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-12-22 15:42 -0600
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-12-22 19:40 -0600
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 10:00 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-12-24 00:43 -0600
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-24 06:38 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-01-01 15:34 -0500
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-29 01:31 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-12-30 17:11 +0000
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-31 12:47 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-30 22:24 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-12-30 17:18 -0600
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-31 08:03 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-31 00:51 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-12-31 20:24 -0600
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-31 20:30 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-01-01 07:57 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-01-01 18:37 -0500
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-01-01 08:21 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-12-31 08:17 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-31 00:57 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> - 2025-12-31 01:17 -0700
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-01-01 11:07 -0800
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-01-01 21:05 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-01-01 21:12 +0100
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-01-01 14:09 -0800
Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-01-02 09:13 +0100
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 10:04 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <l5s4nmxstl.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #155745 |
On 2026-09-08 07:07, Maria Sophia wrote: > R.Wieser wrote: >>> I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone >>> who hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live) >>> discover what the BSSID of your router is? >> >> What you mention there has been explained to him in the thread here >> >> [Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID] >> <10h1qmr$2alo$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> > > First, let's address Andy's point because Andy didn't read the paper, > so Andy thinks it's about individuals, and not about the masses. > *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* > <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975> Arlen, in this long post of yours you did not address the point R.Wieser made. Ok, suppose I run the scripts, and have in my power the BSSIDs and SSIDs of the entire world. I still do not know which one is yours, Arlen. I can not track you. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-08 13:03 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <117oq3k$3vlh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #155756 |
Carlos, > Ok, suppose I run the scripts, and have in my power the BSSIDs and SSIDs > of the entire world. And thats another of Arlens problems : You can't just retrieve records from that database. You could plug your own BSSID into the database and get a number of other, near BSSIDs which you than also query (rinse and repeat), hoping to spread it like a water-ripple, any kind of "dead space" stops that ripple. IOW, if there is any distance between the town you're in and the next town over you won't see that one in your results. And as good-old 'Murrica has a LOT of "dead space" (neighbours lliving miles apart) the chance that Arlens "the entire world" is nothing more than *very* wishfull thinking. I had intended, in that other thread, to put that forward to Arlen. But seeing that he could not even grasp that the translation from a persons name to that persons (routers) BSSID was already wrought with problems I thought better of it. Regards, Rudy Wieser
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