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4G or 5G?

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  4G or 5G? Jim the Geordie <jim@jimsXscott.co.uk> - 2025-03-06 00:48 +0000
    Re: 4G or 5G? Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2025-03-06 07:17 +0000
      Re: 4G or 5G? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-06 10:32 +0000
        Re: 4G or 5G? Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2025-03-06 11:41 +0000
          Re: 4G or 5G? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-03-06 16:37 +0000
        Re: 4G or 5G? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-03-06 17:18 +0000
          Re: 4G or 5G? Jim the Geordie <jim@jimsXscott.co.uk> - 2025-03-06 17:28 +0000
          Re: 4G or 5G? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-03-07 11:25 +0100
    Re: 4G or 5G? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-06 07:44 +0000
      Re: 4G or 5G? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-03-06 08:57 +0000
        Re: 4G or 5G? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-06 09:05 +0000
          Re: 4G or 5G? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-03-06 17:08 +0000
            Re: 4G or 5G? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-06 17:57 +0000
              Re: 4G or 5G? Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-03-06 18:04 +0000
                Re: 4G or 5G? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-06 18:47 +0000
      Re: 4G or 5G? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-06 16:06 +0000
        Re: 4G or 5G? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-03-06 17:10 +0000

#147012 — 4G or 5G?

I've just spent the best part of a day transferring my data from a 4G 
phone to what I bought as a 5G model.
I thought I'd better check it out, and I think I have accidentally or 
deliberately been sent a 4 model.

Just so I don't feel a fool in getting in touch with the seller -
When I disconnect from Wi-Fi a little 4G appears with two arrows and 
Network mode also only shows LTE/3G/2G

Am I correct?

-- 
Jim the Geordie


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

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#147015

Jim the Geordie <jim@jimsXscott.co.uk> Wrote in message:

> I've just spent the best part of a day transferring my data from a 4G 
> phone to what I bought as a 5G model.
> I thought I'd better check it out, and I think I have accidentally or 
> deliberately been sent a 4 model.
> 
> Just so I don't feel a fool in getting in touch with the seller -
> When I disconnect from Wi-Fi a little 4G appears with two arrows and 
> Network mode also only shows LTE/3G/2G
> 
> Am I correct?

Perhaps your mobile operator doesn't support 5g onthe contract you
 have with them. Maybe there's no 5g service in your current
 location.

What's the phone make and model?
What operator and contract (or payg) service (name)?
-- 
Remove numerics from my email address.

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#147022

Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:
> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimsXscott.co.uk> Wrote in message:
> 
> > I've just spent the best part of a day transferring my data from a 4G 
> > phone to what I bought as a 5G model.
> > I thought I'd better check it out, and I think I have accidentally or 
> > deliberately been sent a 4 model.
> > 
> > Just so I don't feel a fool in getting in touch with the seller -
> > When I disconnect from Wi-Fi a little 4G appears with two arrows and 
> > Network mode also only shows LTE/3G/2G
> > 
> > Am I correct?
> 
> Perhaps your mobile operator doesn't support 5g onthe contract you
>  have with them. Maybe there's no 5g service in your current
>  location.
> 
> What's the phone make and model?
> What operator and contract (or payg) service (name)?

It would help to know the exact part number of the phone.  eg for iPhones
it's written on the back as A1234, for Samsungs it's often something like
SM-A123BC.  Usually engraved or on a label somewhere - on phones with
removable backs/batteries it can be under the battery.

Many phones come in different versions and the version for, say, China may
support different bands from the one for Europe or the US.

Theo

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#147026

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Wrote in message:

> Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:
>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimsXscott.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>> 
>> > <snip>
>> 
>> Perhaps your mobile operator doesn't support 5g onthe contract you
>>  have with them. Maybe there's no 5g service in your current
>>  location.
>> 
>> What's the phone make and model?
>> What operator and contract (or payg) service (name)?
> 
> It would help to know the exact part number of the phone.  eg for iPhones
> it's written on the back as A1234,

It used to be. It can be tricky to workout the model number of an
 iPhone if you can't open it and look in 'About phone'. I've had
 to compare the pictures on wikipedia.

> ... for Samsungs it's often something like
> SM-A123BC.  Usually engraved or on a label somewhere - on phones with
> removable backs/batteries it can be under the battery.
> 
> Many phones come in different versions and the version for, say, China may
> support different bands from the one for Europe or the US.
> 
> Theo
> 


-- 
Remove numerics from my email address.

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#147034

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 11:41:47 +0000 (GMT), Dave Royal wrote :


>> It would help to know the exact part number of the phone.  eg for iPhones
>> it's written on the back as A1234,
> 
> It used to be. It can be tricky to workout the model number of an
>  iPhone if you can't open it and look in 'About phone'. I've had
>  to compare the pictures on wikipedia.

This is an Android newsgroup but I see that the OP is talking about an
iPhone, which completely changes the picture if that's his problem device.

While every iPhone & iPad that I own has a clear "model number" both on the
outside of the device (at least originally), on the original box, and,
luckily for the OP, inside the device in the general iOS settings.

However, since Apple doesn't provide access to about 50% of the API's,
there's no way an iPhone can run any of the cellular debuggers I noted.

There's still field test mode though, but it comes and goes, as FTM is a
perennial issue with iPhone users (Apple adds it, removes it, adds it).

However, back to the OP's objection to the model number, I've had iPhones
for many years and I've never had a problem obtaining the model number.

I do agree though, with Theo's point that sometimes, for Android, the
"true" model number may depend on the carrier's software.

An example, similar to Theo's, is my Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, which I
received free from T-Mobile USA 4 years ago, has a "sub" model SM-A326U.  

As Theo correctly noted, European versions of that same main model number
could be and are different. I'm curious what we call these two models?

Main model?  Samsung Galaxy A32-5G
Sub model?   SM-A326U <== I think the "U" is for the USA

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#147038

On 06 Mar 2025 10:32:41 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote :


> Many phones come in different versions and the version for, say, China may
> support different bands from the one for Europe or the US.

Even if a phone doesn't support any particular band, there are public
databases that tell you what towers are in any given area.
 <https://www.cellmapper.net/>

Also, there's roaming, which enables data on multiple carriers I think:
 <https://i.postimg.cc/7hFSk55g/roaming01.jpg> Turn on data roaming
 <https://i.postimg.cc/YCG9NHzT/roaming02.jpg> Check tower frequencies

Anyone can also ask their phone what bands it supports like I did here:
 <https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
 <https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity
 <https://i.postimg.cc/L5CZHt2k/bands03.jpg> Band selection options
 <https://i.postimg.cc/dVQJkL02/bands05.jpg> T-Mo LTE bands San Jose

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#147039

On 06/03/2025 17:18, Marion wrote:
> On 06 Mar 2025 10:32:41 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote :
> 
> 
>> Many phones come in different versions and the version for, say, China 
>> may
>> support different bands from the one for Europe or the US.
> 
> Even if a phone doesn't support any particular band, there are public
> databases that tell you what towers are in any given area.
> <https://www.cellmapper.net/>
> 
> Also, there's roaming, which enables data on multiple carriers I think:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/7hFSk55g/roaming01.jpg> Turn on data roaming
> <https://i.postimg.cc/YCG9NHzT/roaming02.jpg> Check tower frequencies
> 
> Anyone can also ask their phone what bands it supports like I did here:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L5CZHt2k/bands03.jpg> Band selection options
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dVQJkL02/bands05.jpg> T-Mo LTE bands San Jose

It turns out that the phone I bought was badly advertised and was NOT a 
5G model.
I have returned it to the seller, which BTW is very easy on eBay.

-- 
Jim the Geordie

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

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#147070

Marion, 2025-03-06 18:18:

> On 06 Mar 2025 10:32:41 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote :
> 
> 
>> Many phones come in different versions and the version for, say, China may
>> support different bands from the one for Europe or the US.
> 
> Even if a phone doesn't support any particular band, there are public
> databases that tell you what towers are in any given area.
>  <https://www.cellmapper.net/>

Keep in mind, that cellmapper.net does not acquire the data on their
own. They rely on data provided by users of the app - and it can take a
couple of weeks or even months, until data provided by the app is
visible on the map as well:

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cellmapper.net.cellmapper>

So if cellmapper may not report 5G for a specific area because nobody
reported 5G yet even if it is available.

-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#147016

Jim the Geordie wrote:

> When I disconnect from Wi-Fi a little 4G appears with two arrows and 
> Network mode also only shows LTE/3G/2G
You could be in a location without 5G coverage.

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#147019

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 07:44:20 +0000, Andy Burns wrote :


> You could be in a location without 5G coverage.

As others said, the make & model will tell us whether or not the phone is
capable of 5G radio frequencies, and then any cellular debugger will tell
you the signal strength of the 5G frequencies in any given area.

I ran Skyica to find something that might help the OP debug & found this:
 <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.github.takusan23.newradiosupporter>
Which says it allows you to check whether the 5G is Sub-6, millimeter wave,
diverted 5G, or anchor band (but I'm not even sure what anchor band is).

Some phones can be set to 4G only or 5G only mode, where, if desired, these
kinds of apps can be used to manage which mode the phone is locked to:
 <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hunteralex.fivegonly>

And, of course, the very many cellular signal strength debuggers we've
discussed umpteen times on this newsgroup in the past would also tell the
OP if there's 5G in his area (if his phone has a 5G radio, that is).

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#147020

Marion wrote:

> then any cellular debugger will tell
> you the signal strength of the 5G frequencies in any given area.

You need a pinch of salt for those.  My network at my house claims it 
has outdoor 5G coverage, but no indoor coverage.

I've never seen a 5G connection here while outdoors, and I've literally 
only once seen a 5G connection while indoors on the first floor.  It's 
not a issue for me since it gets a good 4G signal, plus while at home it 
uses my wifi for data and voice.

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#147036

On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 09:05:21 +0000, Andy Burns wrote :


>> then any cellular debugger will tell
>> you the signal strength of the 5G frequencies in any given area.
> 
> You need a pinch of salt for those. 

One thing you do need, besides the sodium chloride crystals, is that the
phone has to be Android (where there's an indication the OP is on iOS).

What else is definitely needed is you can only check the signal strength of
your own carrier. I'm not really sure WHY that's the case though.

By way of contrast, for Wi-Fi, you can check the signal strength of *any*
signal you can pick up with your antenna - but not for cellular debuggers.

Any idea why?

> My network at my house claims it 
> has outdoor 5G coverage, but no indoor coverage.

Hmm... I have the opposite problem, but I get your point that the signal
strength of 5G may or may not penetrate into the middle of a solid home.

For me, since I have a cellular repeater and a femtocell, the signal inside
the house is better than that of outside - but both of my indoor towers are
old so I think they only radiate T-Mobile's 4G frequencies in the house.

I've found, at least for my extensive 4G signal strength tests, that about
-105 Decibels (or so) is where a phone call no longer can reliably connect. 

> I've never seen a 5G connection here while outdoors, and I've literally 
> only once seen a 5G connection while indoors on the first floor. 

Hmm... that's too bad. Four years ago when I got this phone from T-Mobile, 
I ran a few tests, and the 5G signal has just been getting better'n better!
 <https://i.postimg.cc/4dDhFK5F/speedtest01.jpg> *125Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/vT68k3BW/speedtest02.jpg> *181Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/pdXF4Mtz/speedtest03.jpg> *125Mbps* to *181Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/gcsyc4Vn/speedtest04.jpg> *82Mbps* & -88dBM
 <https://i.postimg.cc/mggy315q/speedtest05.jpg> *254Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/43KvqkZQ/speedtest06.jpg> *255Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg> *255Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/Bb3xjjFm/speedtest08.jpg> *255Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/GhZKX0vZ/speedtest09.jpg> *130Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/28yZdQJR/speedtest10.jpg> *81Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/ydnDcxy8/speedtest11.jpg> *79Mbps* to *81Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/5y063Jsq/speedtest12.jpg> *96Mbps* to *109Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/fbNyPmHb/speedtest13.jpg> *109Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/5tSyWyGS/speedtest14.jpg> *88Mbps* to *102Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/C5vgmtRd/speedtest15.jpg> *130Mbps* to *255Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/W3GgYJtZ/speedtest16.jpg> *125Mbps* to *181Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/nVs0Smw8/speedtest17.jpg> *54Mbps*
 <https://i.postimg.cc/N0fx62rz/speedtest18.jpg> *60Mbps* & -85dBm
 <https://i.postimg.cc/qR4BcjfM/speedtest19.jpg> Ookla test log results
 <https://i.postimg.cc/66L724vh/speedtest20.jpg> Meteor test log results
 <https://i.postimg.cc/vTfn0HB6/speedtest21.jpg> Speed tests over time
 <https://i.postimg.cc/SsXCzGbd/speedtest22.jpg> T-mo 377, 414, 443 Mbps
 <https://i.postimg.cc/tTLPdVXj/speedtest23.jpg> T-mo 419 & 390 Mbps 5G UC
 <https://i.postimg.cc/BvnxJ0hd/speedtest24.jpg> T-mo RSRP -91 to -96 dBm
 <https://i.postimg.cc/x17ChVzf/speedtest25.jpg> Verizon femtocell setup
 <https://i.postimg.cc/dtFnFCrX/speedtest26.jpg> WISP AC PRISM uses GPS

Since I've had such good experience with 5G signal, I haven't even bothered
to check the signal strength at home in a long time. I'm sorry for you
since I'm very happy with T-Mobile (who fleshed out 5G quite nicely here).

> It's 
> not a issue for me since it gets a good 4G signal, plus while at home it 
> uses my wifi for data and voice.

I saw what you said about no signal but I'd run one of these debuggers 1st.
<https://i.postimg.cc/GhJg447S/celldebug.jpg>

These free apps graphically provide accurate signal strength and tower
antenna frequency measurements of your cellular connection (even down to
not only the exact cell tower but also to the sector antenna you're
connecting to - and all the neighboring antennae & cellular towers).

Below are the tools I often use, in the order you see them in that
screenshot (as I order my homescreen how I like them) for cellular signal.

NetMonster
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.mroczis.netmonster>

RF Mobile Trace
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tts.imnos_mobile>

Signal Spy
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.novvia.fispy>

LTE Discovery
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.simplyadvanced.ltediscovery>

Cellular-Z
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z">Cellular-Z>

Network Signal Guru
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.qtrun.QuickTest>

Signal Check Lite
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blueline.signalchecklite>

Note: This is more for everyone than just for you, as it's imperative for
anyone to know what sector antennas are nearby.

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#147040

Marion wrote:

> for Wi-Fi, you can check the signal strength of any
> signal you can pick up with your antenna - but not for cellular debuggers.
> 
> Any idea why?

The "secret" Phone Info screen shows signal strength (in ASU rather than 
dBm)

I've never seen a phone which can't get into that screen by dialling 
*#*#4636#*#*

some people tell me they can't, I'm not sure if they're doing something 
wrong though ... should be simple.

An Intent/Activity Launcher would be anther way to get into the screen 
via "com.android.phone.settings.RadioInfo"

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#147041

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:


> I've never seen a phone which can't get into that screen by dialling
> *#*#4636#*#*
>

How many phones have you seen?

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#147047

Richmond wrote:

> Andy Burns writes:
> 
>> I've never seen a phone which can't get into that screen by dialling
>> *#*#4636#*#*
> 
> How many phones have you seen?

<accent='russian'>literally dozens of them</spittingimage>

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#147031

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Jim the Geordie wrote:
> 
> > When I disconnect from Wi-Fi a little 4G appears with two arrows and 
> > Network mode also only shows LTE/3G/2G
>
> You could be in a location without 5G coverage.

  If it's a drop-down 'Network mode' menu in Settings, then one of the
choices should say '5G/...' or something. I.e. the choice does not
specify what is actually available coverage-wise, but what you want.

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#147037

On 6 Mar 2025 16:06:09 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :


>>> When I disconnect from Wi-Fi a little 4G appears with two arrows and 
>>> Network mode also only shows LTE/3G/2G
>>
>> You could be in a location without 5G coverage.
> 
>   If it's a drop-down 'Network mode' menu in Settings, then one of the
> choices should say '5G/...' or something. I.e. the choice does not
> specify what is actually available coverage-wise, but what you want.

I agree with anyone who says something sensible, no matter who they are,
and no matter the history of how they post, where I agree with Frank here.

There are *many* ways to find out what the phone supports; here's just one:
 <https://i.postimg.cc/jj0wcy8f/servicemode01.jpg> Samsung Service Mode

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