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What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?

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  What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-01 02:08 +0000
    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 08:11 +0100
      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-01 09:24 -0600
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-01 15:46 +0000
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 04:36 +0000
    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-01 10:13 +0000
      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-01-01 10:50 +0000
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 12:05 +0100
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-01 07:48 -0500
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 15:33 +0100
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 15:36 +0000
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-01 13:24 -0500
                Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 20:36 +0100
                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 05:04 +0000
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 08:47 +0100
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:40 +0000
                Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 21:16 +0100
                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-02 08:47 +0000
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 11:46 +0100
                      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:04 +0000
                        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-02 18:40 -0600
                          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:10 +0000
                            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-03 11:24 -0600
                        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 07:32 +0100
                          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:28 +0000
                            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-03 11:40 -0600
                              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 18:36 +0000
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 18:25 +0000
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 20:46 +0000
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 15:23 +0000
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-01 10:08 -0600
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-01-01 17:07 +0000
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-01 11:55 -0600
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 18:59 +0000
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-01 20:31 +0100
                Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 20:57 +0000
                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:55 +0100
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 16:34 +0000
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 18:31 +0000
                      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:24 +0100
                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-02 02:02 -0600
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-02 15:26 +0100
                      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 18:42 +0000
                        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:25 +0100
                          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-03 04:42 +0000
                            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:48 +0100
                              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 16:23 +0000
                              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 19:58 +0100
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-02 01:56 -0600
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 11:59 +0000
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-01-01 16:57 +0000
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 21:32 +0000
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-01-01 22:33 +0000
                Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 05:31 +0000
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-01 09:29 -0600
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 16:14 +0000
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 05:17 +0000
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 01:14 +0000
    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:52 +0100
      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 21:05 +0100
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 20:49 +0000
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 05:50 +0000
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 06:00 +0000
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 11:35 +0100
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-02 15:55 +0100
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 17:26 +0100
                Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 18:51 +0000
                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:17 +0100
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-03 04:51 +0000
                      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:49 +0100
    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-01 23:19 +0100
      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 01:28 +0000
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-02 02:08 -0600
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-02 18:58 +0000
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-03 23:29 +0100
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0100
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-04 00:30 -0600
    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Siard <xx@xx.invalid> - 2025-01-04 13:24 +0100
      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-04 13:39 +0100
        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 18:25 +0000
          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-04 15:10 -0600
            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-04 23:15 +0100
              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 11:07 +0100
                Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-05 11:34 -0600
                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 10:00 +0100
                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-10 18:14 +0100
                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-10 17:33 +0000
                      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-11 12:52 +0100
                        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-11 14:01 -0600
                          Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-12 16:39 +0100
                            Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-12 17:53 -0600
                              Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-13 17:29 +0100
                                Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-13 15:39 -0600
                                  Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-14 09:57 +0100
                                    Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-14 13:24 +0100
                                      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-14 20:51 +0100
                                        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-14 22:59 +0100
                        Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-13 09:20 +0000
      Re: What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-11 08:58 -0500

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#145969 — What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?

What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?

For example, YouTube app functionality can be replaced by the open-source
NewPipe app, which does NOT need a Google Account set up on the phone.

Likewise, Google Play Store APK installation from the Google Play repo can
be replaced by the open-source Aurora app, which does NOT need a Google
Account set up on the phone.

Similarly, GMail app functionality can be replaced by the FairEmail app,
which does NOT need a Google Account set up on the phone.

What app functionality from Google can NOT be replaced with an app that
does the same functionality but WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#145980

Andrew,

> What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?
>
> For example, YouTube app functionality can be replaced by the open-source
> NewPipe app, which does NOT need a Google Account set up on the phone.
...

That fully depends on when you call a non-Google app a replacement for the 
Google one.

Example: On Windows there are several open-source replacements for Word and 
Excel.   Some people reject them because they are not one-on-one 
replacements.

Also, do realize that as long as you are using Googles Android you are still 
part of their ecosystem (search for "google android advertising framework"). 
Perhaps start with replacing the OS with one which gives you the tools to 
tame badly-behaving apps ?

As for your question for us to deliver replacement apps for everything thats 
already on you phone and/or available in Googles "walled garden" : why don't 
you just take the name of the Google app you're interrested in, pre/append 
"open source" or perhaps "replacement" to it, drop it in your favorite 
search-engine (Google ? :-) ) and see what you get ?

Perhaps make a list of apps in order of importance to you first ?

Personally I would start with a sand-boxed non-google webbrowser with an 
adblocker (and plugin capabilities) and use that to access YouTube e.a.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#145989

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> wrote:

> Andrew,
> 
>> What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?
>>
>> For example, YouTube app functionality can be replaced by the open-source
>> NewPipe app, which does NOT need a Google Account set up on the phone.
> ...
> 
> That fully depends on when you call a non-Google app a replacement for the 
> Google one.
> 
> Example: On Windows there are several open-source replacements for Word and 
> Excel.   Some people reject them because they are not one-on-one 
> replacements.

I tried LibreOffice for over a year.  Too many functions missing, or
having to hunt for where they were buried, or goofy and often incomplete
workarounds.  LibreOffice didn't even have a handle at the corner of a
table to expand it to add a new row with the same attributes while also
changing the data ranges in a linked chart.  Had to go back to MS Office
for both Word and Excel.  

I had not built any custom apps using VBA with any Office component, but
those who do can't migrate to other office suites.  I've seen entire
corporate applications built on Office and scripts that don't look
anything like the Office apps.  Conversion away from MS Office would
take a lot of time and money.  Similarly, if someone built a custom
program upon LibreOffice's scripting then a whole new project would be
needed to migrate to MS Office scripting.

I know some users want to eradicate all of Edge from Windows, except
WebView2 is also used by other software.

However, I suspect the OP's viewpoint is sufficient non-Google
alternatives need not be one-on-one substitutes, just good enough for
his consideration.

> Also, do realize that as long as you are using Googles Android you are still 
> part of their ecosystem (search for "google android advertising framework"). 
> Perhaps start with replacing the OS with one which gives you the tools to 
> tame badly-behaving apps ?
> 
> As for your question for us to deliver replacement apps for everything thats 
> already on you phone and/or available in Googles "walled garden" : why don't 
> you just take the name of the Google app you're interrested in, pre/append 
> "open source" or perhaps "replacement" to it, drop it in your favorite 
> search-engine (Google ? :-) ) and see what you get ?
> 
> Perhaps make a list of apps in order of importance to you first ?
> 
> Personally I would start with a sand-boxed non-google webbrowser with an 
> adblocker (and plugin capabilities) and use that to access YouTube e.a.

As for the OP's inquiry, I use Google Maps.  I've tried Here [WeGo] and
OSM as alternatives, but they weren't as useful.  Here was good,
especially for offline maps.  It's also used in car navigation systems.
OSM is crowd-sourced, so areas with few or no OSM users are poorly
mapped.  OSM also uses public record information, like city plats, which
show planned roads that don't yet exist, and may never exist.  I have
not heard of any car maker touching OSM for nav data.  Is there a
non-Google replacement for Google Maps that is as robust, and updated a
lot, and not by happenstance with erratic voluntary input?  

While there are non-Google alternatives, they don't seem equal.  Being
good enough does not mandate an alternative is a sufficient replacement.
Few users need that warm comfy feeling of disconnecting from Google.

I'm sure Andrew really is not interested in discovering what Google-ized
apps have no "sufficient" non-Google alternatives.  Seems more like he
wants to start another flame thread.

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#145992

VanguardLH wrote:

> I tried LibreOffice for over a year.  Too many functions missing, or
> having to hunt for where they were buried, or goofy and often incomplete
> workarounds.  LibreOffice didn't even have a handle at the corner of a
> table to expand it to add a new row with the same attributes while also
> changing the data ranges in a linked chart.  Had to go back to MS Office
> for both Word and Excel.

The last version of MS Office I installed on any of my machines was 
Office97, since then only OpenOffice or more recently LibreOffice.

> I had not built any custom apps using VBA with any Office component, but
> those who do can't migrate to other office suites. 

If I end-up using a desktop of a customer it will have Office365 
installed.  I hadn't done much Word/VBA programming until this year when 
someone wanted a system to generate and maintain risk assessment 
documents based on numerous partial boilerplates.

I tried to do it using the "modern" Word javascript API, but found it 
was far from good enough for the task, so scrapped it and started again 
using VBA and that wasn't bad.

> I've seen entire corporate applications built on Office and scripts
> that don't look anything like the Office apps.  Conversion away from
> MS Office would take a lot of time and money.  Similarly, if someone
> built a custom program upon LibreOffice's scripting then a whole new
> project would be needed to migrate to MS Office scripting.

Agreed, you're making a one-off choice there.

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#146035

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 1 Jan 2025 15:46:19 +0000 :

> Agreed, you're making a one-off choice there.

Theo seems to be the only person who UNDERSTOOD the question, since most
people have no clue how Android works - they don't know how Google works.

They think this question is about a Google Account on the Internet.
It's not about that at all.

It's about how Android works with Google apps - which only Theo understood.
And specifically, which Google apps need to have a non-Google replacement.

One key reason for that non-Google replacement is the fact that... 
1. Most Google apps do not infest Android with an integral account
2. But some do

Almost nobody but Theo and I (so far) are aware of that obvious fact.

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#145981

Andrew wrote:

> What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?
> 
> For example, YouTube app functionality can be replaced by the open-source
> NewPipe app, which does NOT need a Google Account set up on the phone.

Just using https://m.youtube.com/ would likely be good enough for most 
people

> Similarly, GMail app functionality can be replaced by the FairEmail app,
> which does NOT need a Google Account set up on the phone.

You can use the gmail website, but you won't get far without a login ...

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#145982

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
> 
> > What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?
> > 
> > For example, YouTube app functionality can be replaced by the open-source
> > NewPipe app, which does NOT need a Google Account set up on the phone.
> 
> Just using https://m.youtube.com/ would likely be good enough for most 
> people

To use a Fitbit, you need a Google account (unless you have a legacy Fitbit
account from years ago).  To use the Fitbit app you need to sign in with the
Google account, which installs the Google account centrally on the phone,
which means that account infests the rest of the OS and gets used for other
stuff (eg Play Services/Store).

If your phone vendor supports 'user profiles' you can make a new profile,
add the Google account there. Then it won't interfere with other profiles
and you can terminate the session by logging out after you're done.

Theo

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#145983

Theo,

> To use a Fitbit, you need a Google account

Which is a good reason no to use it.

I could imagine using an open-source or freeware map app in which you can 
locally(!) record the path you've walked (and calculate/estimate the total 
length of that path) ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#145986

On 1/1/2025 6:05 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
> Theo,
> 
>> To use a Fitbit, you need a Google account
> 
> Which is a good reason no to use it.
> 
> I could imagine using an open-source or freeware map app in which you can
> locally(!) record the path you've walked (and calculate/estimate the total
> length of that path) ?
> 

   Or people could go back to just taking a walk and stop trying
to document "ptogress" in all things. Tracking steps is about as
pitiful as it gets.

   I have a TracFone with no Google account, APKPure for
apps, something (Netguard?) to give me more control, and
all Google apps removed or disabled. But I accidentally let
it update awhile back and now I get popups telling me the
sky will fall if I don't enable Google this or that. It's really
obnoxious. I'm amazed that these companies are allowed,
legally, to exert such control over a device I paid for.

    But I think Arlen is missing the point, anyway. Cellphone
under surveillance is a lifestyle. If people use apps, gmail,
maps, Waze, dating, Fitbit, DoorDash, Uber, shopping apps....
That's all spyware. Most of it is tracking location. Even just
leaving the cellphone turned on means you're being tracked.
If you care about that then you don't live on a cellphone... It's
a choice. So many people want to know the best method for
maintaining privacy while telling 6 dozen corporations their
every move.

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#145987

Newyana2,

>> I could imagine using an open-source or freeware map app in which you can 
>> locally(!) record the path you've walked (and calculate/estimate the 
>> total length of that path) ?
>
>   Or people could go back to just taking a walk and stop trying
> to document "ptogress" in all things. Tracking steps is about as
> pitiful as it gets.

Although I agree with you, dropping all the measurement taking is probaly a 
step too far for FitBit users.   You'll hve to wean them off of it one step 
at a time.

Than again, all our sports (and often working lives too) are based on being 
the better/faster/etc. one than all the others, so I can understand the 
competitive part of it.

> I have a TracFone with no Google account,
[snip]

I replaced android with graphene OS.  The phone is switched off unless I 
need it (when traveling).  Its main app is OsmAND, a map program.

> I'm amazed that these companies are allowed, legally, to exert such 
> control over a device I paid for.

I hope you're not running Win10/11, which has become nothing more than a 
thick ethernet client and doubling as an advertising platform. :-)

> But I think Arlen is missing the point, anyway.

That sounds like Arlen alright.

> Cellphone under surveillance is a lifestyle. If people use apps, gmail, 
> maps, Waze, dating, Fitbit, DoorDash, Uber, shopping apps....
> That's all spyware. Most of it is tracking location.

Yup.  And we have next to zero control about what those apps are allowed to 
do - nor any way to even look at what they are doing.   IOW, a smartphone 
(running googles android) is, in regard to spamming and tracking, a big 
companies wet dream.

> Even just leaving the cellphone turned on means you're being tracked.

True, but thats by a local phone company, not some faceless conglomerate 
thats located outside the country, and as such almost untouchable.   Being 
able to use the internet to connect to servers all over the world has its up 
sides, but this is one of its down sides.

> If you care about that then you don't live on a cellphone...

Ageed.

> It's a choice. So many people want to know the best method for
> maintaining privacy while telling 6 dozen corporations their
> every move.

I don't think that most people know about that, or, as they have not yet 
bumped into problems with it, they don't care that it happens.

Funny though that my country has laws forbidding stalking and that people 
will blow their casket when discovering when it happens to them - including 
involvement of police - but have zero problems when their phone is doing it. 
Weird, if you think about it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#145991

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
> Newyana2,
[...]
> > I have a TracFone with no Google account,
> [snip]
> 
> I replaced android with graphene OS.  The phone is switched off unless I 
> need it (when traveling).  Its main app is OsmAND, a map program.

  You might want to post which phone (brand, model, etc.) you have and
what you needed to do to put graphene OS on it (i.e. unlock the boot
loader, fastboot, TWRP, etc.).

  Probably other privacy-concious will be interested in learning whether
or not a non-Android OS is something they would be willing to try and
how hard/easy it is to accomplish it.

  Just a thought.

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#146002

On 1/1/2025 9:33 AM, R.Wieser wrote:

>> I have a TracFone with no Google account,
> [snip]
> 
> I replaced android with graphene OS.  The phone is switched off unless I
> need it (when traveling).  Its main app is OsmAND, a map program.
> 
   I don't think I can do that with TacFone, but it's OK. I only
use the phone on an occasional basis, and pretty much only for phone calls.

>> I'm amazed that these companies are allowed, legally, to exert such
>> control over a device I paid for.
> 
> I hope you're not running Win10/11, which has become nothing more than a
> thick ethernet client and doubling as an advertising platform. :-)
> 
   I have Win11 installed for testing software. I haven't allowed it
online and haven't done much with it. About a year ago I built a new
computer and decided to try Win10. It took about 2 weeks, but I'm
happy. It's fast, lean, free of all the crap, with updates blocked. The
last thing I managed to accomplish was to stop ALL notification
popups. So now it works as well as XP, but with support for newer
hardware/software/64-bit, etc.

   It was very complicated, but not impossible. Though after getting
it mostly set up it wouldn't activate. I had to start over from scratch and
activate first, before the tweaking. That worked. I tried to install a
security update in Auguest. One problem led to another. I finally gave up.
The upddate messed up my system big time, despite not actually
installing! Luckily I had made a disk image just before updating.

   Moral of the story, to my mind: Win10 is mostly OK but very brittle and
very bloated. Win10 doesn't like tweaks. Microsoft are increasingly trying
to control everything. I've had no surprises, no ads, no Copilot showing
up, etc. But I'm not allowing any updates and have disabled as much
calling home as I can find.

    I don't expect to try any updates again. The August experience was
a ridiculous fiasco that shouldn't have happened for mere security
updates. I ended up on a wild goose chase enlarging WinRE. (Which
shouldn't even be required.) And it still just screwed everything up.
BUT, the same update went without a hitch on my laptop that's
less tweaked. So that seems to be further evidence that MS are
punishing tweaks.

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#146006

Newyana2,

>> I replaced android with graphene OS.  The phone is switched off unless
>> I need it (when traveling).  Its main app is OsmAND, a map program.
>>
>   I don't think I can do that with TacFone,

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that my phone is a pixel 6.  The replacing with 
graphene OS was done online, using a webbrowser.  Rather painless.

>  I have Win11 installed for testing software. I haven't allowed it
> online and haven't done much with it.

:-)  As long as you do not connect it to the internet than you are, 
ofcourse, shielded from most of the shennigans MS could try to pull.

>   Moral of the story, to my mind: Win10 is mostly OK but very brittle
> and very bloated.

I would have the same problem(s) with it as you: I tweak the sh*t outof what 
I've got running.

> So that seems to be further evidence that MS are punishing tweaks.

Think of occams razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately 
explained by stupidity."

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#146037

R.Wieser wrote on Wed, 1 Jan 2025 20:36:19 +0100 :

> Think of occams razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately 
> explained by stupidity."

Rudy is correct that nobody but Theo understood the question asked here.

The fact remains that if anyone has a Google Account set up on Android,
then they have already forfeited their right to privacy as it's impossible
to maintain privacy when a Google Account is integral to Android Settings.

The only people who stand a chance of privacy, are those who don't do that.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/x1NZwj5G/account02.jpg>

Theo is the only one, so far, who understood the question, where, Fitbit on
Android requires a Google Account (because Google acquired Fitbit in 2021).

To test out Theo's FitBit observation, without a Google Account set up on
my Android phone, moments ago I anonymously downloaded the latest FitBit
app from the Google Play Store repository <com.fitbit.FitbitMobile>.

It asked me to "Sign in with Google" or "Sign in with Fitbit".

Clicking "Sign in with Fitbit" doesn't seem to allow me to *create* a
FitBit account, and "Sign in with Google" says, very clearly this:
 <https://i.postimg.cc/7ZRtbdHN/fitbit01.jpg>

 *The account will be added to this device*

So that makes THREE Google apps which are known to infest Android with an
unwanted integral account just by the mere act of logging into them.

1. The Google Gmail app (easily replaced with an open-source MUA)
2. The Google Voice app (less easily replaced with an open-source VOIP)
3. The Google FitBit app (is it easily replaced with an alternative app?)

To find out what that alternative app might be, I opened this thread today:
 *For privacy, what is a suitable alternative to the Google FitBit app on Android?*
 <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=56645&group=comp.mobile.android#56645>

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#146049

Andrew,

>> Think of occams razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is 
>> adequately explained by stupidity."
>
> Rudy is correct that nobody but Theo understood the question asked here.

Lol.  You're up to your old tricks I see, trying to warp what I said about 
something completely else into some wonkey "conclusion" furthering your own 
narrative - and than claiming that someone who didn't even come /near/ to 
answering your question was 'the only one' who understood what you actually 
wanted to know.

Arlen, I don't like you and I never have.  However, I gave you benefit of 
the doubt and provided you with a reply you could use to actually gain some 
kind of an answer to your stated problem.   Your above reply shows me that 
that was, again, a wasted effort.

> Fitbit on Android requires a Google Account (because Google acquired 
> Fitbit in 2021).

And you're /behave/ like you rather stupid.   Most everyone else would 
understand the implications of wanting to have replacements for Googles apps 
also means that hardware only working with Googles apps also need to be 
replaced.    Heck, my initial reply already precluded that it all depends on 
what people, you, would call a replacement.   You (make it sound like you) 
do not want to find a replacement for that bit of hardware*, and with it 
sabotage your own question - which you have just shown to consider to be our 
fault/problem.  Way to go kid.

* /assuming/ that there are no replacement apps for it, something you have 
not even tried to figure out ...

Also, you are again trying to gaslight us into believing that this is what 
you actually asked - even though any kind reference to any kind of hardware 
is absent from your initial question.

Did I already say that I don't like you ?   Contortions like the above do 
cause that resentment.  You have zero problem with warping whatever is (not) 
said into stuff with which you try to make it sound as if everyone else is 
just too stupid to even look at you.

And by the way, I already mentioned that you don't *need* a FitBit to keep 
track of your daily(?) excersise.

Bottom line: this nym of yours also goes in my killfile.   Enjoy. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#146007

On 01/01/2025 14:33, R.Wieser wrote:

> I replaced android with graphene OS.  The phone is switched off unless I
> need it (when traveling).  Its main app is OsmAND, a map program.

I've always understood that GrapheneOS is Android that's been 
"degoogled". You may have replaced the original Android OS in whatever 
Pixel you're using with GrapheneOS, but it's still Android.

-- 
Jeff

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#146010

Jeff,

> You may have replaced the original Android OS in whatever Pixel you're 
> using with GrapheneOS, but it's still Android.

Absolutily.  Just like Googles tracking and adware-infested version of 
android is just android. :-)

> I've always understood that GrapheneOS is Android that's been "degoogled"

What about the possibility that some nitwit has come up with that 
explanation, and instead GrapheneOS is a clean version of Android plus some 
privacy and security stuff added to it ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#146046

On 01/01/2025 20:16, R.Wieser wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
>> You may have replaced the original Android OS in whatever Pixel you're
>> using with GrapheneOS, but it's still Android.
> 
> Absolutily.  Just like Googles tracking and adware-infested version of
> android is just android. :-)
> 
>> I've always understood that GrapheneOS is Android that's been "degoogled"
> 
> What about the possibility that some nitwit has come up with that
> explanation, and instead GrapheneOS is a clean version of Android plus some
> privacy and security stuff added to it ?

Well, you might like to bet on that possibility but I most certainly 
would not! Android is Google's baby and they spent a lot of time, money, 
and effort bringing it up. I know that GrapheneOS has been reviewed and 
the general view is that it is pretty good at what it does (interesting 
discussion here: 
<https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/i-dont-trust-pixel-graphene-where-are-the-authoritative-claims-of-its-credibility/17503/1>). 
However, Android is said to have 12 million lines of code. Is it really 
known to anyone outside Google what all of them do?

-- 
Jeff

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#146051

Jeff,

> However, Android is said to have 12 million lines of code. Is it really 
> known to anyone outside Google what all of them do?

Which is exactly why a sane person would not want to go and try to 
de-google-ify it, and starting with a clean version would be a better idea. 
Yes, I applied logic there.

Also, the parent spoke of "android" after which I tried to make him aware 
that Googles android is something different than android.   Yet, you speak 
of "android" as if googles version of it is the base one.   Do you have any 
support for that ?

And by the way, I do not even think that the people inside Google know what 
all of it does. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#146072

On 02/01/2025 10:46, R.Wieser wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
>> However, Android is said to have 12 million lines of code. Is it really
>> known to anyone outside Google what all of them do?
> 
> Which is exactly why a sane person would not want to go and try to
> de-google-ify it, and starting with a clean version would be a better idea.
> Yes, I applied logic there.
> 
> Also, the parent spoke of "android" after which I tried to make him aware
> that Googles android is something different than android.   Yet, you speak
> of "android" as if googles version of it is the base one.   Do you have any
> support for that ?

Well, Google didn't invent Android, but if you look at 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#History> 
you'll see that Android Inc started in 2000 and was going in the wrong 
direction for 4 years (being developed as  an OS for digital cameras). 
They changed for a year to try to develop it as a mobile OS, but had 
almost gone bust at one time. Google bought them out in 2005. The rest 
is history.
(There is a slightly different account for the earliest years at 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history#Overview>, but it 
is not significantly different).

Effectively, unless you're going to suggest that the 20-years old 
pre-Google Android is what Graphene and others developed their OS from, 
it can /only/ have come from stripping down Google's Android.

> And by the way, I do not even think that the people inside Google know what
> all of it does. :-)

I don't disagree, but that's what happens over a long development time. 
However, nobody else is better placed than those inside Google to know 
what Android does. And that's what  concerns me - who knows what 
"innocent" code they've included that nobody else knows about? Have 
Graphene and others /really/ looked through all the code and know what 
it does?

On an unrelated point, I was surprised to see that GrapheneOS uses 
automatic updates only. There's no choice - their OS is updated whether 
you want it or not. That's not what I would have expected.

-- 
Jeff

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