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Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them.

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  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-11-03 19:03 -0500
    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-03 21:50 -0500
      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-11-03 22:17 -0500
      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2024-11-04 06:06 +0000
        Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-11-04 01:43 -0500
        Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-04 14:47 +0000
          Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-04 15:50 +0000
            Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-04 17:59 +0000
              Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-04 19:35 +0000
                Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-05 11:00 +0000
                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-05 19:04 +0000
                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-06 17:12 +0000
                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-06 19:04 +0000
                        Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-06 20:50 +0000
                          Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-06 21:02 +0000
                            Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-07 00:23 +0000
                              Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-07 02:48 +0000
                            Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-07 17:02 +0000
                              Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-07 17:35 +0000
                                Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-09 00:08 +0000
                                  Extracting WiFi Passwords - SOLVED AT LAST! Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-09 01:01 +0000
                                    Re: Extracting WiFi Passwords - SOLVED AT LAST! Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-09 01:15 +0000
                                      Re: Extracting WiFi Passwords - SOLVED AT LAST! Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-09 04:54 +0000
                                        Re: Extracting WiFi Passwords - SOLVED AT LAST! Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-09 04:57 +0000
                                          Re: Extracting WiFi Passwords - SOLVED AT LAST! Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-09 05:32 +0000
                                        Re: Extracting WiFi Passwords - SOLVED AT LAST! Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-09 14:02 +0000
                                    Re: Extracting WiFi Passwords - SOLVED AT LAST! Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-09 12:10 +0000
                                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-09 01:33 +0000
                                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-09 01:35 +0000
            Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-05 13:23 +0000
              Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-05 21:36 +0000
                Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-06 10:41 +0000
                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-06 10:51 +0000
                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-06 14:54 +0000
                Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-06 11:13 +0000
                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-11-06 13:05 +0100
                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-06 13:26 +0000
                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-11-06 14:36 +0100
                        Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-06 14:45 +0000
                          Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-06 15:28 +0000
                          Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-11-06 18:57 +0100
                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-06 15:18 +0000
                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-06 13:24 +0000
                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-06 08:37 -0500
                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-06 16:15 +0000
                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-06 13:59 +0000
                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-11-06 19:01 +0100
                        Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-06 19:15 +0000
                          Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-11-07 12:45 +0100
                            Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-07 15:31 +0000
                              Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-07 16:18 +0000
                                Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-11-07 23:34 +0100
                                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-08 09:39 +0000
                                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-11-08 22:27 +0100
                                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-09 16:04 +0000
                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-06 21:11 +0000
                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-07 02:19 +0000
                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-07 00:12 +0000
                      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-07 10:07 +0000
                        Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-07 14:17 +0000
                          Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-07 19:08 +0000
                            Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-07 19:26 +0000
                              Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-07 20:38 +0000
                                Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-11-07 21:01 +0000
                                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2024-11-08 00:20 +0000
                                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-11-08 11:22 +0000
                                  Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-08 10:47 +0000
                                    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-09 00:45 +0000
                                Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-08 10:26 +0000
        Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-04 16:23 +0000
      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Andrews <andrews@spam.net> - 2024-11-04 14:43 +0000
    Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-11-04 15:41 +0000
      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-11-06 11:03 -0500
      Re: Thumbnails, and what creates them. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-11-28 12:54 -0500

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#144003

On 2024-11-06 15:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-06 14:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-11-06 12:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
>>>>>> phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least*they* provide software
>>>>> to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone, while Google doesn't do
>>>>> that for their phones. (Or*does* Google have such software? Your
>>>>> non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)
>>>>
>>>> Android has a generic application to clone phones, from old to new.
>>>
>>>     And *which* application would that be? I.e. specifics please.
>>
>> No idea. It just runs when you buy a new phone, it is automatic. Depends
>> on the brand.
> 
>    I'm not aware of any such generic Android functionality. When I got my
> current Samsung phone (Galaxy A51), it only offered Samsung's 'Smart
> Switch' app.
> 
>    You say "Depends on the brand.", but that's exactly *my* point.
> 
>    Samsung offers such an app, but do others?

Certainly. Motorola, for instance

>    
>    As Java Jive later wrote, Google offers old-to-new transfer
> functionality for transfer to a Google phone, but apparently quite
> limited, because Java Jive couldn't use it for his old Samsung (Android
> 7) device. And Samsung's Smart Switch is a general app, i.e. not just
> for use at initial install/'switch' time, but also for use at any later
> time.
> 
> [...]


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#143995

Frank Slootweg wrote on 6 Nov 2024 13:26:03 GMT :

> [1] For example, it does not backup apps, it backs up the *names* of
> apps, not the apps themselves, and AFAIK for non-Play_Store/Google_Play
> apps, it doesn't backup anything, not even the names.

Since my computers and mobile devices are set up for privacy, I just want
to make one observation, not for Frank per se, but for everyone out there.

Windows automatically backs up the installers simply by virtue of not
deleting the installers after you install. So does Android.

What? Android backs up the installers automatically - by default? 
Yup.

Most people don't know that EVERY installed app is already backed up.
(Of the major 3, only iOS doesn't back up every app installer by default.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#143988

On 2024-11-06 11:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 
>    Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
> *Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
> 
>    The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
> computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
> other 'normal' utilities.  IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
> and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
> 7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
> Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
> 
>    But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
> Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
> page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
> :-) search on "samsung smart switch for windows" shows it's still there:
> 
> 'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
> Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
> <https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>

Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. 
I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi 
settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to 
choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed 
up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is 
encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and 
specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the 
original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was 
encrypted on the phone :-(

 From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using 
the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(

>>>     AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
>>> Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
>>> Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.
>>
>> I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
>> data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
>> of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
>> next.

Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

>>>     Samsung has its 'Smart Switch' Android app to transfer stuff from
>>> Samsung to Samsung and from non-Samsung to Samsung, i.e for
>>> re-installing a new device with the stuff from an old device. So you may
>>> want to check if Google has a similar app to transfer stuff from a
>>> non-Google (i.e. Samsung in your case) device to a Google device.
>>
>> Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
>> phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.
> 
>    Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least *they* provide software
> to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone

Yeahbut, if they can provide the option in one direction, they can 
provide it in the other direction with minimal or no extra effort or 
cost, so why not do it?  Their decision not to do so cripples their 
software unnecessarily, but creates a disincentive to move away from 
Samsung, so, effectively, it's just another shady lock-in mechanism.

> while Google doesn't do
> that for their phones. (Or *does* Google have such software? Your
> non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

I bought my Pixel 8a at the same time as Andy Burns bought his, and at 
the time we conferred and shared notes in uk.telecom.mobile.  His 
experience was very different from mine because his old phone was newer 
than my Samsung, and was running an Android version equal or later than 
10, whereas mine is on 7.  When we first switched on our phones, we were 
both offered a chance to copy everything from an old phone, and this 
worked for him because of his later Android version, but I was sent to a 
website explaining that my device was too old, hence my problems since 
in copying my data.  I tried various copying apps, but they all fucked 
up in some way or another, so in the end I just copied the data via my 
PC, which gave much better results than anything else that I'd tried 
and, AFAIAA so far at least, the WiFi data is the only thing of 
importance that I haven't been able to copy.

>> Thanks for your helpful suggestions.
> 
>    You're very welcome. With Android backup/resstore/transfer, we need
> all the help we can get! :-(

And thanks again for the link above.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#143991

On Wed, 11/6/2024 8:24 AM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2024-11-06 11:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>    Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
>> *Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
>>
>>    The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
>> computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
>> other 'normal' utilities.  IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
>> and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
>> 7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
>> Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
>>
>>    But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
>> Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
>> page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
>> :-) search on "samsung smart switch for windows" shows it's still there:
>>
>> 'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
>> Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
>> <https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>
> 
> Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was encrypted on the phone :-(
> 
> From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(
> 
>>>>     AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
>>>> Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
>>>> Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.
>>>
>>> I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
>>> data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
>>> of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
>>> next.
> 
> Perhaps this is what I should try next ...
> 
>>>>     Samsung has its 'Smart Switch' Android app to transfer stuff from
>>>> Samsung to Samsung and from non-Samsung to Samsung, i.e for
>>>> re-installing a new device with the stuff from an old device. So you may
>>>> want to check if Google has a similar app to transfer stuff from a
>>>> non-Google (i.e. Samsung in your case) device to a Google device.
>>>
>>> Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
>>> phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.
>>
>>    Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least *they* provide software
>> to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone
> 
> Yeahbut, if they can provide the option in one direction, they can provide it in the other direction with minimal or no extra effort or cost, so why not do it?  Their decision not to do so cripples their software unnecessarily, but creates a disincentive to move away from Samsung, so, effectively, it's just another shady lock-in mechanism.
> 
>> while Google doesn't do
>> that for their phones. (Or *does* Google have such software? Your
>> non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)
> 
> I bought my Pixel 8a at the same time as Andy Burns bought his, and at the time we conferred and shared notes in uk.telecom.mobile.  His experience was very different from mine because his old phone was newer than my Samsung, and was running an Android version equal or later than 10, whereas mine is on 7.  When we first switched on our phones, we were both offered a chance to copy everything from an old phone, and this worked for him because of his later Android version, but I was sent to a website explaining that my device was too old, hence my problems since in copying my data.  I tried various copying apps, but they all fucked up in some way or another, so in the end I just copied the data via my PC, which gave much better results than anything else that I'd tried and, AFAIAA so far at least, the WiFi data is the only thing of importance that I haven't been able to copy.
> 
>>> Thanks for your helpful suggestions.
>>
>>    You're very welcome. With Android backup/resstore/transfer, we need
>> all the help we can get! :-(
> 
> And thanks again for the link above.
> 

There is some info here, on crypto philosophy.

https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/249639/can-an-android-device-connect-to-the-internet-before-decrypting-the-storage

   Paul

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#143998

On 2024-11-06 13:37, Paul wrote:
>
> On Wed, 11/6/2024 8:24 AM, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 2024-11-06 11:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>
>>> 'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
>>> Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
>>> <https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>
>>
>> Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was encrypted on the phone :-(
>>
>>  From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(
> 
> There is some info here, on crypto philosophy.
> 
> https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/249639/can-an-android-device-connect-to-the-internet-before-decrypting-the-storage

Interesting ...

"Device Encrypted (DE) storage includes data like WiFi passwords, 
Bluetooth connections, alarms, theme, wallpaper, apps & device settings."

... so, as I presume each device has its own encryption key, how can 
data which is stored as encrypted be copied in a usable form to another 
device, as Smart Switch is supposed to do?

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#143992

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-11-06 11:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > 
> >    Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
> > *Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
> > 
> >    The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
> > computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
> > other 'normal' utilities.  IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
> > and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
> > 7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
> > Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
> > 
> >    But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
> > Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
> > page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
> > :-) search on "samsung smart switch for windows" shows it's still there:
> > 
> > 'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
> > Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
> > <https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>
> 
> Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. 
> I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi 
> settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to 
> choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed 
> up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is 
> encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and 
> specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the 
> original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was 
> encrypted on the phone :-(

  Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.

>  From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using 
> the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(

  Yeah, most likely it's also encrypted. :-(

> >>>     AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
> >>> Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
> >>> Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.
> >>
> >> I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
> >> data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
> >> of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
> >> next.
> 
> Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

[...]

> I bought my Pixel 8a at the same time as Andy Burns bought his, and at 
> the time we conferred and shared notes in uk.telecom.mobile.  His 
> experience was very different from mine because his old phone was newer 
> than my Samsung, and was running an Android version equal or later than 
> 10, whereas mine is on 7.  When we first switched on our phones, we were 
> both offered a chance to copy everything from an old phone, and this 
> worked for him because of his later Android version, but I was sent to a 
> website explaining that my device was too old, hence my problems since 
> in copying my data.  I tried various copying apps, but they all fucked 
> up in some way or another, so in the end I just copied the data via my 
> PC, which gave much better results than anything else that I'd tried 
> and, AFAIAA so far at least, the WiFi data is the only thing of 
> importance that I haven't been able to copy.

  I've done more or less the same. While my new phone was a Samsung (old
phone was a Huawei), I only transferred very few apps with Samsung's
Smart Switch and did most of the work by re-installing apps, copying
data and app-settings, etc.. I did use Samsung's Smart Switch to
transfer the 'simple' stuff like 'Calls and contacts', 'Accounts', (SMS)
'Messages' and 'Bookmarks', but probably could have done most or all of
that with Google's 'Backup data'. (BTW, at the moment, on my Samsung
phone, I can't find a 'Restore' for Google's 'Backup data'! That's not
very useful, is it!? :-))

[...]

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#144004

On 2024-11-06 14:59, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-06 11:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>
>>>     Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
>>> *Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
>>>
>>>     The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
>>> computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
>>> other 'normal' utilities.  IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
>>> and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
>>> 7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
>>> Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
>>>
>>>     But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
>>> Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
>>> page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
>>> :-) search on "samsung smart switch for windows" shows it's still there:
>>>
>>> 'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
>>> Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
>>> <https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>
>>
>> Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site.
>> I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi
>> settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to
>> choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed
>> up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is
>> encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and
>> specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the
>> original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was
>> encrypted on the phone :-(
> 
>    Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
> backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
> Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.


Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not 
backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad 
guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.



-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#144006

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-11-06 14:59, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[...]
> >    Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
> > backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
> > Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.
> 
> 
> Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not 
> backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad 
> guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.

  That would only work if the bad guy has physical access to your phone
*and* can get *into* that phone, i.e. he has to have the password/PIN/
fingerprint/etc.. That's exactly the reason why for example bootloaders
are locked, i.e. physical access is not enough to get into an Android
phone.

  So there's no valid reason for the legit user of the phones not to be
able to transfer the Wi-Fi settings/password (or other passwords).

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#144022

On 2024-11-06 20:15, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-06 14:59, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> [...]
>>>     Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
>>> backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
>>> Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.
>>
>>
>> Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not
>> backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad
>> guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.
> 
>    That would only work if the bad guy has physical access to your phone
> *and* can get *into* that phone, i.e. he has to have the password/PIN/
> fingerprint/etc.. That's exactly the reason why for example bootloaders
> are locked, i.e. physical access is not enough to get into an Android
> phone.
> 
>    So there's no valid reason for the legit user of the phones not to be
> able to transfer the Wi-Fi settings/password (or other passwords).

Nevertheless, that is the reason.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144026

In comp.mobile.android Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-11-06 20:15, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 2024-11-06 14:59, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > [...]
> >>>     Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
> >>> backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
> >>> Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.
> >>
> >>
> >> Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not
> >> backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad
> >> guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.
> > 
> >    That would only work if the bad guy has physical access to your phone
> > *and* can get *into* that phone, i.e. he has to have the password/PIN/
> > fingerprint/etc.. That's exactly the reason why for example bootloaders
> > are locked, i.e. physical access is not enough to get into an Android
> > phone.
> > 
> >    So there's no valid reason for the legit user of the phones not to be
> > able to transfer the Wi-Fi settings/password (or other passwords).
> 
> Nevertheless, that is the reason.

  That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has
been more or less debunked by my response of earlier today:

Message-ID: <vgi714.dkk.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
<quote>
  Hmmmm!? Strange! On my ancient Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 10.1" (SM-T530)
with Android 5.0.2, i.e. even older than yours, Settings says it can
"Back up application data, Wi-Fi passwords and other settings to Google
servers". (Settings -> 'GENERAL' tab -> 'Backup and reset')
</quote>

  But granted, that's about backup (and restore to the same device), not
about transfer to a new device.

  Still, the 'reason' for not transferring Wi-Fi and other passwords is
invalid/silly/<whatever> for the reasons I gave.

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#144027

A little earlier, I wrote:
>   That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
> Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has
> been more or less debunked by my response of earlier today:

  N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.

  On my (Samsung Galaxy A51) Android 13 phone:

  Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->

"Device settings		208 KB
 Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."

  N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
dots, but if I go to the one.google.com webpage on my laptop, it says:

"Device settings
 Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

  So Wi-Fi passwords are backed up by Google Backup. Whether they are
also transferred from an old to a new device is still unanswered (by
official references).

[...]

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#144043

On 2024-11-07 17:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> A little earlier, I wrote:
>>    That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
>> Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has
>> been more or less debunked by my response of earlier today:
> 
>    N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
> Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.

On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing. 
Nor does "backup".

I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One", 
which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I 
disabled (I back them up to Amazon).

> 
>    On my (Samsung Galaxy A51) Android 13 phone:
> 
>    Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
> restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
> YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->

Found it.

> 
> "Device settings		208 KB
>   Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
> 
>    N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
> dots, but if I go to the one.google.com webpage on my laptop, it says:
> 
> "Device settings
>   Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

Does not open.

> 
>    So Wi-Fi passwords are backed up by Google Backup. Whether they are
> also transferred from an old to a new device is still unanswered (by
> official references).
> 
> [...]


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144052

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-11-07 17:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > A little earlier, I wrote:
> >>    That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
> >> Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has
> >> been more or less debunked by my response of earlier today:
> > 
> >    N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
> > Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.
> 
> On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing. 
> Nor does "backup".
> 
> I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One", 
> which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I 
> disabled (I back them up to Amazon).
> 
> > 
> >    On my (Samsung Galaxy A51) Android 13 phone:
> > 
> >    Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
> > restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
> > YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->
> 
> Found it.
> 
> > 
> > "Device settings              208 KB
> >   Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
> > 
> >    N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
> > dots, but if I go to the one.google.com webpage on my laptop, it says:
> > 
> > "Device settings
> >   Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"
> 
> Does not open.

  Exactly. My point was only that the Wi-Fi settings *are* backed up,
not that they are seperately accessible/restorable with other tools.

> >    So Wi-Fi passwords are backed up by Google Backup. Whether they are
> > also transferred from an old to a new device is still unanswered (by
> > official references).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144059

On 2024-11-08 10:39, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-07 17:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> A little earlier, I wrote:
>>>>     That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
>>>> Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has
>>>> been more or less debunked by my response of earlier today:
>>>
>>>     N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
>>> Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.
>>
>> On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing.
>> Nor does "backup".
>>
>> I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One",
>> which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I
>> disabled (I back them up to Amazon).
>>
>>>
>>>     On my (Samsung Galaxy A51) Android 13 phone:
>>>
>>>     Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
>>> restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
>>> YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->
>>
>> Found it.
>>
>>>
>>> "Device settings              208 KB
>>>    Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
>>>
>>>     N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
>>> dots, but if I go to the one.google.com webpage on my laptop, it says:
>>>
>>> "Device settings
>>>    Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"
>>
>> Does not open.
> 
>    Exactly. My point was only that the Wi-Fi settings *are* backed up,
> not that they are seperately accessible/restorable with other tools.

Not "exactly". Mine does not say what it stores. It doesn't say it 
stores wifi passwords. It just says "device settings".



-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144072

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-11-08 10:39, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 2024-11-07 17:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>> A little earlier, I wrote:
> >>>>     That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
> >>>> Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has
> >>>> been more or less debunked by my response of earlier today:
> >>>
> >>>     N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
> >>> Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.
> >>
> >> On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing.
> >> Nor does "backup".
> >>
> >> I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One",
> >> which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I
> >> disabled (I back them up to Amazon).
> >>
> >>>
> >>>     On my (Samsung Galaxy A51) Android 13 phone:
> >>>
> >>>     Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
> >>> restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
> >>> YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->
> >>
> >> Found it.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> "Device settings              208 KB
> >>>    Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
> >>>
> >>>     N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
> >>> dots, but if I go to the one.google.com webpage on my laptop, it says:
> >>>
> >>> "Device settings
> >>>    Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"
> >>
> >> Does not open.
> > 
> >    Exactly. My point was only that the Wi-Fi settings *are* backed up,
> > not that they are seperately accessible/restorable with other tools.
> 
> Not "exactly". Mine does not say what it stores. It doesn't say it 
> stores wifi passwords. It just says "device settings".

  But you said "Does not open.", so did or did you not get the

> >>> "Device settings
> >>>    Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

message?

  Note that this message is on the one.google.com *webpage*, not in the
Settings (sub-)menu itself. I.e. it comes from a the website, not from
your phone itself. So you *see* the message on your *phone*, but it
*comes from* the one.google.com *webserver*.

  To be sure, just go to the one.google.com webpage on your computer and
follow the instructions, which I gave earlier:

  -> Backup -> View -> "YOUR DEVICE BACKUP ..." -> select your device ->
See details ->

"<your device name>

 Last backup: ...
 ...
 Backup details
 ...
 Device settings			NNN KB
 Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more
 ..."

   If you do not get this message (with "Wi-Fi passwords", then please
post what the "Backup details" page on your computer *does* say.

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#144012

On 2024-11-06 13:24, Java Jive wrote:
> 
> Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. I've 
> downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi 
> settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to 
> choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed 
> up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is 
> encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and 
> specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the 
> original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was 
> encrypted on the phone 🙁
> 
> From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using 
> the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening 🙁

Prediction correct: The backups by either method seem to consist of 
metadata files which are unencrypted, and data files which are encrypted 
no matter how the backup is made.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144019

On 2024-11-06 21:11, Java Jive wrote:
>
> On 2024-11-06 13:24, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. 
>> I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the 
>> WiFi settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity 
>> to choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the 
>> backed up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data 
>> itself is encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I 
>> noted and specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted 
>> because the original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and 
>> that was encrypted on the phone 🙁
>>
>> From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted 
>> using the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening 🙁
> 
> Prediction correct: The backups by either method seem to consist of 
> metadata files which are unencrypted, and data files which are encrypted 
> no matter how the backup is made.

But then I thought, perhaps if I load Smart Switch onto the Pixel again, 
plug in the micro SD, and run it, it will allow me to restore the 
backup, but NO!  Again the program has been deliberately crippled not to 
allow any sort of copying to a non-Samsung device, even from a local source.

Fucking bastards!  Guess who'll NEVER be buying another Samsung phone!

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144013

On 2024-11-06 13:24, Java Jive wrote:
>
>>>>     AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
>>>> Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
>>>> Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.
>>>
>>> I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
>>> data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
>>> of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
>>> next.
> 
> Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

No, this doesn't work either.  On the Samsung, the only option presented 
by Google's Backup is to back up contacts, I can't see an option to back 
up settings.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144021

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-11-06 13:24, Java Jive wrote:
> >
> >>>>     AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
> >>>> Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
> >>>> Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.
> >>>
> >>> I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
> >>> data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
> >>> of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
> >>> next.
> > 
> > Perhaps this is what I should try next ...
> 
> No, this doesn't work either.  On the Samsung, the only option presented 
> by Google's Backup is to back up contacts, I can't see an option to back 
> up settings.

  Hmmmm!? Strange! On my ancient Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 10.1" (SM-T530)
with Android 5.0.2, i.e. even older than yours, Settings says it can
"Back up application data, Wi-Fi passwords and other settings to Google
servers". (Settings -> 'GENERAL' tab -> 'Backup and reset')

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#144023

On 2024-11-07 10:07, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-06 13:24, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>      AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
>>>>>> Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
>>>>>> Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
>>>>> data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
>>>>> of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
>>>>> next.
>>>
>>> Perhaps this is what I should try next ...
>>
>> No, this doesn't work either.  On the Samsung, the only option presented
>> by Google's Backup is to back up contacts, I can't see an option to back
>> up settings.
> 
>    Hmmmm!? Strange! On my ancient Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 10.1" (SM-T530)
> with Android 5.0.2, i.e. even older than yours, Settings says it can
> "Back up application data, Wi-Fi passwords and other settings to Google
> servers". (Settings -> 'GENERAL' tab -> 'Backup and reset')

I was going via a different path, which exists on both devices ...

   Settings -> Google -> All services -> Backup and Restore

... which only covers contacts.

On the Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 SM-T719, I don't have your 'General' tab 
under settings.  Searching its settings for 'backup' gives me ...

   1 Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Backup Settings
     (to Samsung cloud)

   2 Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Backup My Data
     (to Google Drive)

   Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Backup Account
     (create spare account, not relevant here)

   Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Automatic restore
     (auto restore backed up settings when an app is reinstalled)

... also ...

   Developer Options -> Desktop backup password

... of which obviously only the first two are relevant:

1 Is the Samsung backup tested yesterday, seemingly can't be restored to 
a non-Samsung phone, and anyway seems to have insufficient granularity 
to restore *ONLY* the WiFi settings, so it would not seem wise to 
restore this en masse to the Pixel, even if I could find out how.

2 I think this might be the same one as you reach by the path you gave 
above.  It is a single switch option which was already enabled, and is 
fully described thus:

"Back up your device data and app data automatically to Google Drive 
(including WiFi passwords, the Phone log, app settings, and related files.

App data may include personal information such as contacts, messages, 
and pictures."

If I could find out how to restore only the WiFi settings from that to a 
different phone, I guess I'd be home and dry, but I can't even find out 
how to use it to restore to the *SAME* phone that it was made from. 
Searching Settings for 'restore' gives me only the first and fourth hits 
above, nothing for restoring any or all of a Google Drive backup.

On the Pixel 8a, searching settings for 'restore' gives me ...

   Google Play Services -> Restore contacts
   Google Play Services -> Google Contacts sync

   1 Apps -> Data Restore Tool

   System -> Erase all data (factory reset)

... of which only the app [1] seems relevant.  Tapping it takes me to 
its App Info, not the app itself, which says that it's running but not 
active, and gives details of its permissions. etc.  There is no icon on 
the home pages for it, and swiping up to get the list of apps gives me 
nothing of that name or similar, so, how do I run it manually?

Thanks for all your and others' attempts to help, it's a lovely sunny 
day here in Sutherland, so going for a walk now, back later.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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