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Google's "Find My Debvice Network"

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  Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-29 07:54 -0700
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 16:02 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 19:01 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 18:08 +0100
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 22:33 +0200
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:16 +0200
              Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 20:20 +0100
                Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:31 +0200
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-31 15:15 +0000
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-06-03 17:38 +0200
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-01 07:31 -0700
                Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 11:38 -0400
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-31 16:50 +0100
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 21:56 -0400
                  Re: Google's "Find My Device Network" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2024-05-31 16:42 +0000
                    Re: Google's "Find My Device Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-31 17:46 +0100
                      Re: Google's "Find My Device Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 21:55 -0400
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-31 18:59 +0000
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 21:55 -0400
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-29 18:01 +0000
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> - 2024-05-29 18:23 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-29 18:32 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 19:00 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 18:59 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 18:00 +0100
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 22:34 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-30 07:06 -0700
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-30 15:48 +0000
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-30 17:34 +0000
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 19:43 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:13 +0200
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-29 17:55 +0000
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 20:30 +0000
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 21:46 +0100
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 21:03 +0000
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 22:19 +0100
              Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 21:51 +0000
                Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 00:00 +0100
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2024-05-30 17:12 +0100
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 19:49 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-30 07:02 -0700
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 19:39 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:12 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:28 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-06-01 19:10 +0000
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 19:47 +0000
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 20:22 +0000
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 21:37 +0100
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 20:51 +0000
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 22:13 +0100
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 21:23 +0000
              Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 22:28 +0100
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-04 14:08 +0100

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#141559

On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been 
>googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my 
>battery to be part of this network.

In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
-- 
RoRo

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#141561

On 2024-05-29 18:23, Robert Roland wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
>> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>> battery to be part of this network.
> 
> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.

Right.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#141565

Am 29.05.24 um 18:32 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2024-05-29 18:23, Robert Roland wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
>> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>>> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>>> battery to be part of this network.
>>
>> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
>> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
> 
> Right.

*Nonsense*
It is quite easy to turn it off!

-- 
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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#141564

Am 29.05.24 um 18:23 schrieb Robert Roland:
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
>> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>> battery to be part of this network.
> 
> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.

The privacy implications are much more important than the number of 
participating devices. I question your assumptions.

If you speak a little bit of German than you can see how easy it is to 
turn it on and to turn it off again:

https://www.heise.de/tipps-tricks/Google-Find-my-Device-so-funktioniert-s-6202798.html

or open settings. Go to search function and enter "find my" and enter.
There you are! Deactivate it!

-- 
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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#141566

Robert Roland wrote:

> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.

According to 9to5google, it has three states

	Without network:
	With network in high-traffic areas only:
	With the network in all areas:

<https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>

under
Settings > Security & privacy > Device finders > Find My Device

I don't see those choices, but i can do a manual scan for trackers near me,

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#141584

Am 29.05.24 um 19:00 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Robert Roland wrote:
> 
>> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
>> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
> 
> According to 9to5google, it has three states
> 
> 	Without network:
> 	With network in high-traffic areas only:
> 	With the network in all areas:
> 
> <https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>
> 
> under
> Settings > Security & privacy > Device finders > Find My Device
> 
> I don't see those choices, but i can do a manual scan for trackers near me,

Opting out is possible. I have just done it.

-- 
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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#141624

On Wed, 29 May 2024 18:00:19 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
> 
> Robert Roland wrote:
> 
> > In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> > critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
> 
> According to 9to5google, it has three states
> 
> 	Without network:
> 	With network in high-traffic areas only:
> 	With the network in all areas:
> 
> <https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>
> 
> under
> Settings > Security & privacy > Device finders > Find My Device
> 
> I don't see those choices, but i can do a manual scan for trackers near me,
[end of article missing?]


On my Samsung A54, Android 14, OneUI 6.1, I have

Settings » Security and privacy »  Lost device protection: Allow this 
phone to be found in case it gets lost

Tapping that leads to a complaint "not signed in to Samsung 
account," which is true. I wouldn't create a Microsoft account; why 
would I create a Samsung one?

But I wonder: is Samsung maybe hiding Google's Find to push people 
toward Samsung's? Samsung updates have been coming about once a week 
lately, and who knows what's in them?

BTW, Frank Slootweg posted the answer that fits my phone exactly:
https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn

-- 
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA         https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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#141628

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 18:00:19 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
> > 
> > Robert Roland wrote:
> > 
> > > In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> > > critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
> > 
> > According to 9to5google, it has three states
> > 
> >       Without network:
> >       With network in high-traffic areas only:
> >       With the network in all areas:
> > 
> > <https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>
> > 
> > under
> > Settings > Security & privacy > Device finders > Find My Device
> > 
> > I don't see those choices, but i can do a manual scan for trackers near me,
> [end of article missing?]
> 
> 
> On my Samsung A54, Android 14, OneUI 6.1, I have
> 
> Settings   Security and privacy    Lost device protection: Allow this 
> phone to be found in case it gets lost
> 
> Tapping that leads to a complaint "not signed in to Samsung 
> account," which is true. I wouldn't create a Microsoft account; why 
> would I create a Samsung one?

  You get that error, because you're in the *Samsung* 'Find My Mobile'
settings.

  There is also the *Google* 'Find My Device' function. Note Samsung
"Mobile" versus Google "Device". Confusing, isn't it!? :-(

  To get to the *Google* 'Find My Device' function (instructions for my
Samsung Galaxy A51 Android 13):

Settings -> Google / Google services -> 'All services' tab -> Find My
Device

> But I wonder: is Samsung maybe hiding Google's Find to push people 
> toward Samsung's? Samsung updates have been coming about once a week 
> lately, and who knows what's in them?
> 
> BTW, Frank Slootweg posted the answer that fits my phone exactly:
> https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn

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#141634

Frank Slootweg wrote on 30 May 2024 15:48:12 GMT :

>> Tapping that leads to a complaint "not signed in to Samsung 
>> account," which is true. I wouldn't create a Microsoft account; why 
>> would I create a Samsung one?
> 
>   You get that error, because you're in the *Samsung* 'Find My Mobile'
> settings.

I already explained that in detail so it's disconcerting Stan said what he
did as it means Stan likely hasn't been reading anyone's responses about
this topic - and yet we all responded with great detail to assist him.

https://i.postimg.cc/25C1Jppb/findmy.jpg

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#141639

Stan Brown wrote:

> Settings » Security and privacy »  Lost device protection: Allow this
> phone to be found in case it gets lost

Although I have the new enough version of Play Services required by 
FindMyDevice, I think it's not yet been enabled in the UK.

> Tapping that leads to a complaint "not signed in to Samsung
> account," which is true. I wouldn't create a Microsoft account; why
> would I create a Samsung one?

I don't have a Samsung device, but haven't seen anything that says this 
new feature requires a MySamsung account, maybe it can work as an 
alternative to a Google account?

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#141642

On Wed, 29 May 2024 18:23:54 +0200, Robert Roland wrote:

> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.

Sorry, but that's BS.

-- 
s|b

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#141572

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been 
> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my 
> battery to be part of this network.
> 
> Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find 
> My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part 
> of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to 
> opt out of a network I don't want?

  I got an e-mail (today) from Google, saying the 'feature' will be
turned on in three days and with instructions how to opt out of the
network:

<https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>

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#141582

Frank Slootweg wrote on 29 May 2024 17:55:05 GMT :

>   I got an e-mail (today) from Google, saying the 'feature' will be
> turned on in three days and with instructions how to opt out of the
> network:
> 
> <https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>

I'd never get that email from Google, I would think, simply because there
is no Google account set up on my Android phone (although I do have plenty
of Google Accounts - just none are set up explicitly on the Android phone).

However, I did go to the link Frank kindly posted to see what it tells me:
 <https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>
 "No active devices
  Before you can use Find My Device, 
  you must have an active Android device."

Hence, apparently, one way for the OP to opt out of this new bluetooth
feature is, perhaps, to simply not set up an account on their device.

Moving forward toward a better understanding of this new feature, and
thanks to Frank & Andy (and thanks to the OP, Stan), I read their links to
better understand this new find-my feature released, apparently, in the
Google Play Services <com.google.android.gms> beta version (v24.12.14).

When I look in Muntashirakon App Manager, my Google Play Services is
 Version 23.33.16 (190400-560149061) (233316044)

I'm curious what version people are on who got the email from Google.

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#141588

Andrew wrote:

> I'm curious what version people are on who got the email from Google.

I didn't get the email, most likely because the new feature isn't 
enabled in the UK yet, but I do have Play Services 24.20.13, which is 
higher than the beta.

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#141590

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 21:46:50 +0100 :

>> I'm curious what version people are on who got the email from Google.
> 
> I didn't get the email, most likely because the new feature isn't 
> enabled in the UK yet, but I do have Play Services 24.20.13, which is 
> higher than the beta.

Thanks for confirmation that the rollout is (as I think I saw in one of the
previous links) mainly to the USA & Canada at the moment, even as the beta
is in Google Play Services <com.google.android.gms> v24.12.14 beta & above.

Obviously I'll opt out even as the default is to opt in when I do get
updated to that level; but one question I have that hasn't been answered is
whether or not the bluetooth radio needs to "show" that it's turned on.

That is, does anyone know if you simply turn off your bluetooth radio, will
that prevent the related communications with other devices from occurring?

... uh oh... bad news... I googled before sending this... and found out... 

Oh my! Google is rather clever, as can be inferred from this, which implies
you can turn Bluetooth off only temporarily in Android 15. It's pause only!

 *Android 15 really doesn't want you to turn off Bluetooth*
 <https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-bluetooth-auto-on-3431445/>
 "Android 15 will add a new feature that can automatically turn 
  on Bluetooth the day after you've disabled it.
  Your phone's Bluetooth radio is used for several key Android features, 
  such as Quick Share and Find My Device.
  Disabling Bluetooth will slightly improve battery, but the trade-off 
  is that your device won't be able to contribute to Google's Find My
  Device network."

Does anyone have Android 15 who can confirm that Bluetooth is pause only?

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#141594

Andrew wrote:

> Does anyone have Android 15 who can confirm that Bluetooth is pause only?

No, my Pixel5a is too old to get the beta of 15 (not that I'm tempted to 
run betas on my main phone).  I'm still deciding whether to buy a 
Pixel8, an 8a or hold on a few months for a 9Pro.

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#141599

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 22:19:29 +0100 :

>> Does anyone have Android 15 who can confirm that Bluetooth is pause only?
> 
> No, my Pixel5a is too old to get the beta of 15 (not that I'm tempted to 
> run betas on my main phone).  I'm still deciding whether to buy a 
> Pixel8, an 8a or hold on a few months for a 9Pro.

Like you, my Android update is probably topped out (mine is at Android 13).
However, the new bluetooth find my device works on most Androids.
  "The new Find My Device works with devices running Android 9+."

I'm glad Stan asked this question as I was unaware that this existed,
where, googling a bit, I find this description a bit disconcerting... 

  "thanks to specialized Pixel hardware, Pixel 8 and 8 Pro owners 
   will also be able to find their devices if they're powered off 
   or the battery is dead"
   <https://blog.google/products/android/android-find-my-device/>

That means, I guess, what we discussed in the past, is that a phone which
is simply indicating that it's off, isn't necessarily off after all.

Likewise, based on your own PNG screenshot, a bluetooth radio which
indicates that it's off many not, in reality, be "really" off...
 <http://andyburns.uk/misc/findmy-helppage.png>
(although I saw your response that it may mean it already happened
when the bluetooth radio was on prior and you're just too late turning it
off).

That's going to be the most important question to answer, especially as a
"dead" or "off" phone is still doing the tracking according to the blog.

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#141602

Andrew wrote:

>    "thanks to specialized Pixel hardware, Pixel 8 and 8 Pro owners
>     will also be able to find their devices if they're powered off
>     or the battery is dead"
> 
> That means, I guess, what we discussed in the past, is that a phone which
> is simply indicating that it's off, isn't necessarily off after all.

I think the CPU, wifi and 4G/5G radios will be off, but the last thing 
the CPU will do is pre-compute the "I'm lost" beacon packets and put the 
bluetooth radio into a special mode where it repeatedly transmits them 
(maybe at decreasing frequency?)

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#141629

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
> 
> >    "thanks to specialized Pixel hardware, Pixel 8 and 8 Pro owners
> >     will also be able to find their devices if they're powered off
> >     or the battery is dead"
> > 
> > That means, I guess, what we discussed in the past, is that a phone which
> > is simply indicating that it's off, isn't necessarily off after all.
> 
> I think the CPU, wifi and 4G/5G radios will be off, but the last thing 
> the CPU will do is pre-compute the "I'm lost" beacon packets and put the 
> bluetooth radio into a special mode where it repeatedly transmits them 
> (maybe at decreasing frequency?)

How does Bluetooth help?  I'm much more likely to lose my phone in the
middle of an empty field than somewhere at home in range of other
Bluetooth devices.

-- 
Chris Green
·

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#141640

Chris Green wrote:

> How does Bluetooth help? 

BLE can have quite a range, hundreds of feet, but they system is 
designed around having other people around to do the finding,

> I'm much more likely to lose my phone in the
> middle of an empty field than somewhere at home in range of other
> Bluetooth devices.

bluetooth is your only realistic choice though, it has to be something 
the lost device can transmit, you can receive, and not too much of a 
burden on the batteries ... yo could always go into your field with 
another phone to search for the lost one?

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