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Google's "Find My Debvice Network"

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  Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-29 07:54 -0700
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 16:02 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 19:01 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 18:08 +0100
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 22:33 +0200
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:16 +0200
              Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 20:20 +0100
                Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:31 +0200
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-31 15:15 +0000
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-06-03 17:38 +0200
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-01 07:31 -0700
                Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 11:38 -0400
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-31 16:50 +0100
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 21:56 -0400
                  Re: Google's "Find My Device Network" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2024-05-31 16:42 +0000
                    Re: Google's "Find My Device Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-31 17:46 +0100
                      Re: Google's "Find My Device Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 21:55 -0400
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-31 18:59 +0000
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-05-31 21:55 -0400
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-29 18:01 +0000
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> - 2024-05-29 18:23 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-05-29 18:32 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 19:00 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 18:59 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 18:00 +0100
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-29 22:34 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-30 07:06 -0700
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-30 15:48 +0000
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-30 17:34 +0000
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 19:43 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:13 +0200
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-29 17:55 +0000
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 20:30 +0000
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 21:46 +0100
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 21:03 +0000
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 22:19 +0100
              Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 21:51 +0000
                Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 00:00 +0100
                  Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2024-05-30 17:12 +0100
                    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 19:49 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-30 07:02 -0700
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-30 19:39 +0100
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:12 +0200
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-05-30 21:28 +0200
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-06-01 19:10 +0000
    Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 19:47 +0000
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 20:22 +0000
      Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 21:37 +0100
        Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 20:51 +0000
          Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 22:13 +0100
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-29 21:23 +0000
              Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-29 22:28 +0100
            Re: Google's "Find My Debvice Network" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-06-04 14:08 +0100

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#141623

On 29 May 2024 17:55:05 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been 
> > googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my 
> > battery to be part of this network.
> > 
> > Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find 
> > My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part 
> > of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to 
> > opt out of a network I don't want?
> 
>   I got an e-mail (today) from Google, saying the 'feature' will be
> turned on in three days and with instructions how to opt out of the
> network:
> 
> <https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>

Thanks for that, Frank: it exactly solves my problem.

I haven't received emails, I don't think, but definitely multiple 
notifications on the phone for about the last week. The settings 
mentioned in your article do exist on my phone. It was set to "with 
network in high-traffic areas only" and I changed it to "without 
network."

I'm not so much concerned about privacy--that ship has sailed with 
Google--but about battery use from being constantly on line. I have 
Power Saver selected, but still I'm lucky to go 48 hours without 
recharging.

I've bookmarked that link -- it can be handy to find the phone when I 
can't remember where in the house I set it down. :-) While I'm moving 
house, everything is topsy turvy, and it's easy to lose track of 
almost anything temporarily.

-- 
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA         https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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#141638

Stan Brown wrote:

> I'm not so much concerned about privacy--that ship has sailed with 
> Google--but about battery use from being constantly on line. I have 
> Power Saver selected, but still I'm lucky to go 48 hours without 
> recharging.

I wouldn't think data usage would be very high, after all it only has t 
report the location of a 'lost' device if it finds one.  We'll have to 
see whether listening for lost beacons over bluetooth is battery 
intensive, or not.

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#141641

On 29 May 2024 17:55:05 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>   I got an e-mail (today) from Google, saying the 'feature' will be
> turned on in three days and with instructions how to opt out of the
> network:
> 
> <https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>

Same here. I got the e-mail on May 22, but so far no notification and no
option to opt out (because it isn't active yet?).

-- 
s|b

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#141645

On Thu, 30 May 2024 21:12:46 +0200, s|b wrote:

> Same here. I got the e-mail on May 22, but so far no notification and no
> option to opt out (because it isn't active yet?).

The e-mail refers to
<https://support.google.com/android/?p=find_offline_devices>

I checked again on my Pixel and it has the option 'Find your offline
devices' as shown in the screenshot. It's set to OFF (not by my doing,
maybe Google choose 'opt in' instead of 'opt out', for European users?)

-- 
s|b

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#141690

On May 29, I wrote:
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been 
> > googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my 
> > battery to be part of this network.
> > 
> > Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find 
> > My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part 
> > of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to 
> > opt out of a network I don't want?
> 
>   I got an e-mail (today) from Google, saying the 'feature' will be
> turned on in three days and with instructions how to opt out of the
> network:
> 
> <https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>

  And indeed today, I got a notification on my phone that the
functionality is live and enabled (and with a pointer to the settings,
so you can check/change them).

  For now, I've kept the 'Find your offline devices' setting set to
'With network in high-traffic areas only'.

(Other settings are 'Off', 'Without network' and 'With network in all
areas'. All with panels which can be opened to see explanations of each
choice.)

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#141579

Stan Brown wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700 :

> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been 
> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my 
> battery to be part of this network.
> 
> Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find 
> My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part 
> of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to 
> opt out of a network I don't want?

Andy Burns is helping you, and he knows more than I do, but I don't
understand fully what you're asking - but I think I do the same thing???

I've long ago opted out of any find-my-device mechanism on my Android 13
Galaxy simply because I'm worried about possible privacy implications.

What did I do?
I simply never opted in (as far as I can recall)...

Searching the Samsung Android settings for "Find My" locates a couple of
activities, one is Samsung specific and the other appears to be Android.

Samsung: Find my mobile
Android: Find my device

Neither one of which works on my device.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/25C1Jppb/findmy.jpg>

Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...
      
   *Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*

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#141581

Andrew wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 19:47:10 -0000 (UTC) :

> Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...
>       
>    *Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*

Ah, I see you're asking about a brand new feature, based on what both Andy
& Frank apprised Joerg of... <https://i.postimg.cc/25C1Jppb/findmy.jpg>

<https://9to5google.com/guides/find-my-device/>
<https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>
<https://support.google.com/android/answer/14796936?&p=find_offline_devices&rd=1#finding_offline_devices>

Note my "Google Play Services" <com.google.android.gms> is currently
below the beta version (v24.12.14) said to contain the new features.
 Version 23.33.16 (190400-560149061) (233316044)

Let's see what this new thing is all about... 

 "The Find My Device network piggybacks off of all Android phones
  with Google Play Services to help users find lost items..."

 "In the latest beta version of Google Play Services, v24.12.14,
  a new Find your offline devices is appearing in the Settings 
  menu for some users."

 "This leads to another page with options to find devices without 
  the network, with the network in high-traffic areas, and with 
  the network all of the time. Users can also turn the feature 
  off entirely. By default, the option is turned on & to all areas."

 "Google's Find My Device network has been slow to come to all 
  Android devices, but if you buy a supported tracker, it will be 
  activated during the initial setup phase on your device."

 "You can check if you have the network on your device. Open the 
  Find Device app, tap on your profile picture, and then tap 
  Find My Device settings. From there, you'll know if you have 
  the network live if you see Find your offline devices and
  the menu it brings"

 "If you don't yet have the network, be sure to accept any app 
  or system updates. Google is rolling this out as a server-side 
  update, so you shouldn't need any other updates, but it 
  generally helps to be on the latest available version."

 "Android devices participating in the Find My Device network 
  use Bluetooth to scan for nearby items. If they detect your items,
  they securely send the location where they detected the items 
  to Find My Device. Your Android device does the same to help 
  others find their lost items when it detects them nearby."

 "You can control how your Android device participates in the
  network at any time by visiting Find your offline devices
  in the Find My Device settings.

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#141586

Andrew wrote:

> Samsung: Find my mobile
> Android: Find my device
> 
> Neither one of which works on my device.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/25C1Jppb/findmy.jpg>

That version relies on the device having geolocation enabled, so it 
knows where it is, reports that to google so that later you can ask 
google where it was when it last reported its own location.

The new version, doesn't rely on that;  it relies on other people 
constantly listening for your phone saying "help my owner has lost me, 
do you know where I am?"  Then other people report your phone's location 
to google.  Even the latest phones will have this 'beacon' running when 
they're switched off and a battery that's not even got enough charge to 
turn on (but *just* enough to run the bluetooth by itself).

> Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...
>     *Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*

Stan doesn't want to use-up his battery/bandwidth, listening out for 
other people's lost devices.  Seems like he will be able to opt out.

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#141589

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 21:37:04 +0100 :

>> Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...
>>     *Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*
> 
> Stan doesn't want to use-up his battery/bandwidth, listening out for 
> other people's lost devices.  Seems like he will be able to opt out.

Thanks for patiently explaining what, at first, I had not understood.
Much appreciated, as there are only a handful of people I can learn from on
this newsgroup, you being one of them (Frank was also helpful in this too).

Seeking to answer Stan's question, the first issue is it apparently uses
bluetooth, so, I would think (hope?) that the bluetooth radio can simply be
turned off. 

Yet, maybe not, as the "default" will be for this feature to be turned on,
so, maybe (I don't know yet), the bluetooth radio will be on, but hidden?

Question 1: Does turning off the bluetooth radio disable this feature?

Moving on, a second way to disable this feature, at least from the
perspective of finding your own devices, might be to simply opt out.

Question 2: Does opting out only prevent you from finding your own devices?
            (or does opting out also prevent you from finding others' too?)

Moving on further into the realm of opting out, I noticed the feature
requires two things that I don't have (but which most people do have).
a. It (apparently) requires a lock on the device
b. It (apparently) requires an account on the device
I have neither; but I don't dispute that most people have both.

This really brings up question 2 above again, with the difference being if
you can't use this feature (because of lack of an account set up on the
phone, or lack of a password set up on that account set up on the phone), 
does that prevent the bluetooth bandwidth of the phone from being used?

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#141592

Andrew wrote:

> Seeking to answer Stan's question, the first issue is it apparently uses
> bluetooth, so, I would think (hope?) that the bluetooth radio can simply be
> turned off.

That was my first answer here, but maybe not ...

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/findmy-helppage.png>

it could be that when you get an alert, it's too late to turn off 
bluetooth as the lost phone has already been locate by yours, or it 
could be be that even when bluetooth is "off" it's still listening for 
findmydevice beacons ... similar to how wifi being "off" it can still be 
used for BSSID location (unless you turn it *really* off).

> Yet, maybe not, as the "default" will be for this feature to be turned on,
> so, maybe (I don't know yet), the bluetooth radio will be on, but hidden?

Suppose we'll have to wait and see ...

This new feature is intended to work with Apple Airtags and those "Tile" 
trackers you can put on your keyring  or in your wallet.

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#141595

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 22:13:45 +0100 :

> That was my first answer here, but maybe not ...
> 
> <http://andyburns.uk/misc/findmy-helppage.png>

Thanks for that PNG:
 "What to do if you get an unknown tracker alert.
  If you turn off Bluetooth or Location Services or turn on aeroplane 
  mode your phone won't prevent the owner of the tracker or device 
  from finding the location of the tracker."

Yikes!

That implies that the Bluetooth radio is lying when it says it's off. 
Does it not?

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#141596

Andrew wrote:

>   "What to do if you get an unknown tracker alert.
>    If you turn off Bluetooth or Location Services or turn on aeroplane
>    mode your phone won't prevent the owner of the tracker or device
>    from finding the location of the tracker."
> 
> Yikes!
> 
> That implies that the Bluetooth radio is lying when it says it's off.
> Does it not?

Either that, or by the time you've got an alert it's too late to turn 
off bluetooth as it's already been detected.

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#141792

Andy Burns wrote:

> This new feature is intended to work with Apple Airtags and those "Tile" 
> trackers you can put on your keyring  or in your wallet.

It seems the apple/android interoperability is much less than I'd 
thought, the two companies have only co-operated as far as "stalking" 
detection is concerned, it won't allow apple things to locate android 
things or vice-versa.

Also FMDN won't work with existing Tile devices, they only use other 
phones with the Tile app installed.

There are new Chipolo Point devices, and PebbleBee for Android devices 
available (be careful to buy the correct models)

<https://chipolo.net/en/products/chipolo-point-bundle>
<https://pebblebee.com/pages/google-find-my-device>

Other manufacturers (Eufy, JioTag) are expected very soon (again, don't 
buy current models, they are not compatible) I presume Tile will have 
new models too, or they'll die out.

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