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Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls?

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  Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-09 03:28 +0000
    Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Yakker <NoMail@IsGoodMail.com> - 2021-01-09 21:06 +0000
      Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-09 21:11 +0000
        Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Kees Nuyt <k.nuyt@nospam.demon.nl> - 2021-01-10 04:49 +0100
          Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? KenW                                        <ken1943@invalid.net> - 2021-01-10 06:25 -0700
            Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-10 15:58 +0000
          Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-10 13:53 +0000
      Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-09 17:37 -0800
        Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-10 13:48 +0000
    Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2021-01-17 11:09 +0100
      Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2021-01-17 11:15 +0000
        Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-17 15:26 -0800
          Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-17 22:21 -0800
            Re: Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls? Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-18 06:39 -0700

#73216 — Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls?

Why don't the adults on this newsgroup stand up to the trolls?

For example, Steve Scharf claimed I'm 80% wrong on facts
o And yet, nobody has _ever_ found my facts to be wrong

Never.
o In, oh, who can count the posts - the facts are always correct.

Not even one fact can Steve cite that he claims is wrong.
o Not a single one.

And yet, _nobody_ on this ng stood up to Steve's utter bullshit.
o None of you did.

I'm hurt.

Not Vanguard, not piet, not The Real Bev, not s|b...
o Not anyone.

Not even all the people I've helped over the years....
o And those who have helped me.

Not a single one stood up to the bullshitters.

Is everyone a coward here?
o Or, worse, is everyone a troll?

I looked at the list of posters, most are trolls, e.g., 
o Alan Baker, micky, philo, Bob F., Ken Blake, et al. 

I don't expect the trolls to support those who speak facts
o But I'm hurt that not a single adult stood up to Steve's bullshit.

Not even one.
o Do _none_ of the adults appreciate the value adults add to this ng?
-- 
Note: Facts are different from opinions.

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#73254

Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote in
news:rtb7s8$bv9$1@gioia.aioe.org: 


Some of us do. We simply don't respond. Only Bozos feed the trolls. 
Your name just passed its 100 days on my Bozo list. Back it goes 
again.

 

-- 
Steve (--) 

I filter using XNEWS. 
If you expect a response and don't see it,
don't take it personally. 

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#73255

On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 21:06:20 +0000 (UTC), Yakker wrote:

> Some of us do. We simply don't respond. Only Bozos feed the trolls. 
> Your name just passed its 100 days on my Bozo list. Back it goes 
> again.

I have to ask this "Yakker" troll, when it ever added value to this ng?
o I've never even once seen a thread from this troll that is of any value.
-- 
I stand up to the trolls by pointing out the facts, where I post out of the
goodness of my heart, and where trolls, like this Yakker troll, post out of
pure malice in their souls.

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#73260

On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 21:11:57 +0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:

>> Some of us do. We simply don't respond. Only Bozos feed the trolls. 
>> Your name just passed its 100 days on my Bozo list. Back it goes 
>> again.
>
> I have to ask this "Yakker" troll, when it ever added value to this ng?
> o I've never even once seen a thread from this troll that is of any value.
> -- 
> I stand up to the trolls by pointing out the facts, where I post out of the
> goodness of my heart, and where trolls, like this Yakker troll, post out of
> pure malice in their souls.

I have to disagree with you Arlen,
the best advice is:

"Don't feed the troll(s)".

That has been a good and effective habit in usenet for decades.
As you have seen, feeding them doesn't get you anywhere and 
just increases the noise.

Question: Does anyone have a kill filter that kills Arlen's 
response to trolls, but retains his useful posts?
I would certainly read more of Arlen's posts if I could 
remove the noise and the useless profiling (TYPE N) he is
so fond of.
-- 
Kees Nuyt

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#73269

Only people that have ONLY usenet interest and nothing else know the
trolls


KenW

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#73276

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 06:25:45 -0700, KenW wrote:

> Only people that have ONLY usenet interest and nothing else know the
> trolls

Actually, that may be true, as this "micky" troll got booted off its
Eternal September server by Wolfgang (aka Ray BAnana) after I forwarded the
following 21 requests to the abuse admin at Eternal September.
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/ZqfJDrckXlQ> 1st request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/OqmfDmv-rEE> 2nd request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/TImHM2egkaY> 3rd request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/XphN4AkKzFA> 4th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/aPnh6Okku8k> 5th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/vO2WvHzFIVU> 6th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/uP5dZ6Nkbzo> 7th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/ZqfJDrckXlQ> 8th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/XphN4AkKzFA> 9th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/aPnh6Okku8k> 10th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/vO2WvHzFIVU> 11th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/uP5dZ6Nkbzo> 12th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/mvt8sFNsL4A> 13th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/s-wHIpd1Y_A> 14th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/y7kHl6T1ou8> 15th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/owzGhUTzVy8> 16th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/biJijnd396U> 17th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/jBbcZbz1QAc> 18th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/1GseU5suCrU> 19th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/CAqIPuUurCM> 20th request
o <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/oYI2T7K7vzc> 21st request

There will be no 22nd request, at least under the NNTP posting account:
o "micky" posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19oDjjfsplxUMVBIKIrml92"

It seems to have taken this "micky" troll a week or two to figure out he
was booted off of Eternal September as he then started using Paolo's server
(aioe) but Paolo may have caught on to this "micky" troll as the "micky"
troll then started posting his infantile politics using "Usenet Farm".

Rest assured, each and every infantile troll from "micky" is being
forwarded to his Usenet server, where I wish every _adult_ did this to save
the newsgroup from the trolls.
1st request for this "usenet farm" NNTP server:
o Subject: DoD, OMB, still not cooperating.
o URL <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/aSPCi9kDFms>
o Date: Tue, 29 Dec 20 11:16:01 UTC
o From: micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
o PATH > usenet.farm > highwinds
o Message-Id: <2j3mufh965ice77ep4fpio50vn6qqhcir6@4ax.com>

2nd request for this "usenet farm" NNTP server:
o Subject: trump still at it.
o URL <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/PE2vt6TTBK4>
o Date: Sun, 03 Jan 21 23:07:26 UTC
o From: micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
o PATH > usenet.farm > news.xs4all.nl
o Message-Id: <q9j4vf5223sqb59l18s64uv2j28jev01th@4ax.com>

3rd request for this "usenet farm" NNTP server:
o Subject: more goings on in Congress
o URL <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.repair/c/V8DuHR81y64>
o Date: Sun, 03 Jan 21 14:12:39 UTC
o From: micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
o PATH > usenet.farm > news.uzoreto.com
o Message-Id: <llg3vf9bag20n2s68av0k68eiphg0r1fuu@4ax.com>
etc.

Notice that while the home repair newsgroup is already a cesspool, 
what I'm trying to do, as a purposefully helpful adult, is _save_ this
newsgroup from the very same trolls who turned other ngs into cesspools.

I just wish there were other adults who weren't so cowardly that they 
don't do the same, as I, alone, all by myself, can't save this ng.
-- 
Posted, as always, because I care about the topic and about this ng.

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#73271

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 04:49:02 +0100, Kees Nuyt wrote:

> I have to disagree with you Arlen,
> the best advice is:
> "Don't feed the troll(s)".
> That has been a good and effective habit in usenet for decades.
> As you have seen, feeding them doesn't get you anywhere and 
> just increases the noise.
> Question: Does anyone have a kill filter that kills Arlen's 
> response to trolls, but retains his useful posts?
> I would certainly read more of Arlen's posts if I could 
> remove the noise and the useless profiling (TYPE N) he is
> so fond of.

Hi Kees Nuyt,

Wow. Just wow. I didn't think there were many adults on this newsgroup.
o But you are definitely an adult with an excellent point of view.

You hit my dilemma on the head, which is exactly as you stated.
1. I'm so good hearted, that it bothers me more than most the trolls
2. I'm trying to _help_ people - where I've never met such horrid people

In all my life, in years of higher education at the finest schools in this
country, and in decades of Silicon Valley startups, I have never met people
like those who frequent Usenet, where a huge percentage are worthless
pieces of shit, devoid of any redeeming value whatsoever.

So I try to make them "go away", which, I do by confronting them.
o I point out what they do (e.g., nospam always bullshits us)

It has been effective in some ways (e.g., I recently got a few of the
trolls kicked off their Usenet servers, e.g., the "micky" & "highwinds"
trolls).

But, they just seem to spawn new troll socks by the minute.
o Sigh.

The old adage has two components, as you're well aware:
a. Don't feed the trolls by not responding to their bullshit, 
   (where others will perceive it as dropping down to their level)
b. If you do, most people are too stupid to tell the difference.
   (and where the trolls win, in the end, due to their experience)

You'll notice I do not feed the trolls when they infest other threads.
o I only confront them when they infest threads I'm trying to add value.

I realize you can tell the difference, which means you're intelligent.
o Most people, I agree, are too stupid to discern what you've discerned.

Or, worse, most people are cowards.
o They won't even stand up for the people who add value

That the good people don't stand up to the trolls when they attack good
people is what hurts - as that means they're cowards, in my mind.

I understand fully, a priori, you might respond by saying they don't feed
the trolls, but if you look at this thread, you find those supposedly good
people feeding the trolls left and right:
o Endless wrangling, by The Real Bev, January 7th, 2021
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/p0dvgrTp0FA>

So it's not that good people don't want to feed the trolls (as they do);
o It's simply that they're cowards - they won't defend other good people.

Yet, most people are too stupid to realize that I confront the trolls
in the threads they infest and they're too stupid to realize the value I
add. Even if they're good people - they're just plain stupid.

I'd estimate this newsgroup has fewer than a half dozen intelligent people.
o The rest are stupid or trolls, IMHO, which, to me, is almost the same.

And yet, given they're stupid, the vast majority can't tell the difference
between me and the trolls, and they only keep me out of their killfiles
because of the tremendous value I add to the technical knowledge of the ng.

Sigh.
o Such is my dilemma.

Even Carlos, to his credit, has said somewhat of the same thing
a. My response to the trolls doesn't help the thread topic
b. And yet, if you plonk me, you lose all the value
   (and, IMHO, I provide a shit ton of added value)
c. And yet, even he is likely unaware I leave the trolls alone elsewhere
   (any thread by "micky" or "philo" or "T" or "Bob F" et al., is a troll)

The trolls don't _care_ about the added value I always strive to add
o And anyone who plonks me doesn't care about any added value either

But that's OK. 
o If they plonk me, they were too stupid to add any value anyway
  (e.g., how much added value does "Yousef" add, as an example.)

Having said all that, you are _still_ correct.
o The trolls like Alan Baker feed off of the responses to them.

I've plonked him, where to plonk for me is a PITA since I don't use a
newsreader per se (I use telnet & vi and vpn scripts written by Marek long
ago). So to plonk means I have to change a few scripts (not hard, just a
PITA).

Maybe I will modify the scripts so that I plonk people after 3 strikes?
o Let's try that Kees Nuyt, shall we?

I will run an experiment from now until the end of January I think.
o I'll plonk each worthless piece of shit on this Android newsgroup

Bear in mind, that will leave fewer than a half dozen people left
o But those half dozen will all be good intelligent helpful people

Let's try it, shall we?

Note: But how do we handle the bullshitters like Steve, who, for example,
claim Qualcomm royalties went down, when they went up 113%? They bullshit
and then run away, like cowards. Steve is a professonal politician, so I 
understand that he's so used to bullshit that it's natural for him. But I
am the furthest thing from a politician - I have no social skills for 
bullshit or for people being wrong. I didn't thrive in Silicon Valley 
startups and Ivy League schools by being wrong, that's for sure. Nobody 
who is wrong so often as people like nospam & sms could survive a week.

The difference between sms (a politician) and nospam (he defends MARKETING
at all costs) is that both bullshit like there is no tomorrow, but for
different purposes (Steve always shills for Apple & Verizon for some
reason, although he being the Mayor of Cupertino may be that reason).

What do we do about these consummate bullshitters like sms & nospam?
-- 
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, as always to try to add value to
this newsgroup.

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#73259

On 1/9/2021 1:06 PM, Yakker wrote:
> Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote in
> news:rtb7s8$bv9$1@gioia.aioe.org:
> 
> 
> Some of us do. We simply don't respond. Only Bozos feed the trolls.
> Your name just passed its 100 days on my Bozo list. Back it goes
> again.

Exactly.

I think that most of us would be thrilled if Arlen would begin to behave 
like an adult.

If he chose to take that step he could rehabilitate himself and be 
removed from people's filter list.

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#73270

On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 17:37:38 -0800, sms wrote:

> I think that most of us would be thrilled if Arlen would begin to behave 
> like an adult.

Steve,
What's your definition of adult?

a. You bullshit like there is no tomorrow - is that behavior of an adult?
   (Note: I don't bullshit - my credibility on facts is 100%)
   Nobody has _ever_ found my facts to be wrong on this newsgroup.

b. I stand up to the trolls - they're all cowards.
   But I mainly stand up to the trolls in threads that I author.
   If they leave me alone, I leave them alone (for the most part).

c. I post out of the goodness of my heart.
   (the trolls post out of malice in their souls)

What's your definition, Steve?

Note: You, Steve Scharf, bullshit and then run away.
o You never stand up, like a man, to your bullshit.

An example is you claimed, sans a single fact, the Qualcomm royalties went
down, and yet, when it was proven the Qualcomm royalties went up 113%, you
simply slinked away. 

You never said what an _adult_ would have said, Steve:
o You never said, That's correct and you were wrong.

As far as we know, you _still_ believe Qualcomm royalties went down.
o What adult holds on to completely incorrect assessments, Steve?

That's either not an adult, or a very stupid one, wouldn't you agree?

You couldn't last a week in a Silicon Valley startup being that wrong. 
o You just can't. 
-- 
Posted as an adult to a bullshitter - which Steve is, as he won't respond.
(Steve is a coward - he throws his bullshit - and then runs away.)

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#73711

On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 03:28:09 +0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Not Vanguard, not piet, not The Real Bev, not s|b...
> o Not anyone.

I don't read everything, but my first instinct when it comes to trolls
is not react to them. That's what I was taught. And if they're not in my
kill filter I yet I will create a kill filter which also kills
follow-ups to the troll. I use an ignore filter and my view is set to
not show ignored postings, so I don't even see those postings.

-- 
s|b

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#73712

In article <i6igmvFq0aqU1@mid.individual.net>, me@privacy.invalid 
says...
> 
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 03:28:09 +0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
> 
> > Not Vanguard, not piet, not The Real Bev, not s|b...
> > o Not anyone.
> 
> I don't read everything, but my first instinct when it comes to trolls
> is not react to them. That's what I was taught. And if they're not in my
> kill filter I yet I will create a kill filter which also kills
> follow-ups to the troll. I use an ignore filter and my view is set to
> not show ignored postings, so I don't even see those postings.

+1

-- 
Jim S

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#73716

On 1/17/2021 3:15 AM, Jim S wrote:
> In article <i6igmvFq0aqU1@mid.individual.net>, me@privacy.invalid
> says...

<snip>

>> I don't read everything, but my first instinct when it comes to trolls
>> is not react to them. That's what I was taught. And if they're not in my
>> kill filter I yet I will create a kill filter which also kills
>> follow-ups to the troll. I use an ignore filter and my view is set to
>> not show ignored postings, so I don't even see those postings.
> 
> +1

If someone constantly responds to the trolls then I will filter them out 
as well. If it's only once or twice then I let it slide. Sometimes just 
filtering on Subject is sufficient. While it would be nice if no one 
responded to the trolls, sometimes people can't control themselves.

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#73725

On 01/17/2021 03:26 PM, sms wrote:

> If someone constantly responds to the trolls then I will filter them out
> as well. If it's only once or twice then I let it slide. Sometimes just
> filtering on Subject is sufficient. While it would be nice if no one
> responded to the trolls, sometimes people can't control themselves.

I'm ashamed to say that sometimes the bait is just too tasty to resist. 
I'm getting a lot better now, though.  Honest.

-- 
Cheers, Bev
    Subscribe today to "Fire in the Hole - the Quarterly Journal
    for Incinerator Toilet Enthusiasts"                -- Andrew

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#73727

On 1/17/2021 11:21 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 01/17/2021 03:26 PM, sms wrote:
> 
>> If someone constantly responds to the trolls then I will filter them out
>> as well. If it's only once or twice then I let it slide. Sometimes just
>> filtering on Subject is sufficient. While it would be nice if no one
>> responded to the trolls, sometimes people can't control themselves.
> 
> I'm ashamed to say that sometimes the bait is just too tasty to resist.


Yes, that's true for may people. That's why trolls should be killfiled. 
It's too  difficult for most people to just ignnore their posts.


-- 
Ken

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