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Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer?

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  Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-16 20:39 +0000
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-11-16 13:55 -0800
      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-17 05:52 +0000
        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Stephen H. Fischer" <a_nani_mouse@mindspring.com> - 2016-11-16 22:16 -0800
          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-11-16 23:20 -0800
            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-23 03:49 +0000
      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-18 01:05 +0000
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2016-11-17 09:45 -0900
      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-17 20:26 +0000
        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-11-17 21:18 -0500
          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 02:26 +0000
        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2016-11-19 09:30 -0900
          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 20:28 +0000
            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 20:37 +0000
              Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2016-11-20 09:24 -0900
                Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 01:46 +0000
                  Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2016-11-22 08:26 -0900
                    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 20:29 +0000
                      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2016-11-23 09:00 -0900
                        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-24 02:48 +0000
                        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-12-01 23:44 +0000
                          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> - 2016-12-02 10:26 +0000
                            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? dg1261 <dgREMOVE-THIS1261@cs.com> - 2016-12-03 02:05 +0000
                              Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2016-12-03 09:20 +0000
                            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-12-03 08:26 -0500
                Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 04:46 +0000
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-17 21:01 +0000
      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "NY" <me@privacy.net> - 2016-11-17 22:12 +0000
        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-18 00:39 +0000
          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "NY" <me@privacy.net> - 2016-11-18 16:36 +0000
            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 00:21 +0000
              Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Reinhard Zwirner <reinhard.zwirner@t-online.de> - 2016-11-19 22:03 +0100
                Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 22:08 +0000
                  Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 22:54 +0000
                    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-20 02:31 +0000
                  Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Reinhard Zwirner <reinhard.zwirner@t-online.de> - 2016-11-20 02:26 +0100
                    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-20 02:34 +0000
                      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-11-20 03:15 -0500
                        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-20 08:24 -0500
                          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-11-21 01:40 -0500
                            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-21 10:23 -0500
                              Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? FromTheRafters <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> - 2016-11-21 16:44 -0500
                        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-20 16:54 +0000
                          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-11-21 01:51 -0500
                            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 00:21 +0000
                              Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 04:46 +0000
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "MJP" <KKK@KKK.NET> - 2016-11-18 21:19 +0000
      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 02:26 +0000
        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 02:38 +0000
        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Stephen H. Fischer" <a_nani_mouse@mindspring.com> - 2016-11-18 19:14 -0800
          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 06:15 +0000
            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Stephen H. Fischer" <a_nani_mouse@mindspring.com> - 2016-11-22 00:19 -0800
              Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 15:15 +0000
                Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Stephen H. Fischer" <a_nani_mouse@mindspring.com> - 2016-11-22 10:40 -0800
                  Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-11-22 11:26 -0800
                    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-22 14:34 -0500
                    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? "Stephen H. Fischer" <a_nani_mouse@mindspring.com> - 2016-11-22 13:03 -0800
                  Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 20:29 +0000
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 00:08 +0000
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-19 20:46 +0000
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-22 06:15 +0000
      Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-23 04:25 +0000
        Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-11-23 17:18 +0000
          Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-23 13:00 -0500
            Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-11-23 15:13 -0500
              Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-23 16:17 -0500
    Re: Best way to view Android GPX track offline on a Windows USGS topo map & elevation chart GPS viewer? Raymond Spruance III <spruancerayIII@example.com> - 2016-12-01 23:44 +0000

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#36387

On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 09:00:48 -0900, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

> That is what I do.  I use a pay program called Panavue and sometimes stitch 
> as many as 9 maps together.  You just crop the borders off the sides you are 
> going to stitch together and go for it.

The stitching worked perfectly!

I went on a cross-quadrangle hike today, where I needed to stitch two
quadrangles together because the track crossed the edges.

The process was pretty straightforward as you had suggested.

All you do is create the two TIF maps (as previously described) and then you
use any editor to crop the two TIF maps (I used Irfanview) and then you
simply stitch them together(I used Irfanview Panaorma).

After you stitch them together, you have an easy 6 points (the corners of
each of the two maps) to put into oziExplorerTrial.

Note that the USGS topo maps are in degrees,minute,seconds (DMS) format.
   40d 15m              40d 15m                 40d 15m
   119d 08m 30s         119d 00m                118d 50m 30s
   +----------------------++----------------------+
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |     QUADRANGLE 1     ||    QUADRANGLE 2      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   +----------------------++----------------------+
   40d 08m 30"          40d 08m 30"             40d 08m 30"
   119d 08m 30s         119d 00m                118d 50m 30s

   Unfortunately OziExplorer expects degrees and decimal minutes. 
   Here is a web site that will convert from DMS to DDM.
   http://jeeep.com/details/coord

   40 15.0000           40 15.0000              40 15.0000
   119 8.5000           119 0.0000              118 50.5000
   +----------------------++----------------------+
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |    QUADRANGLE 1      ||    QUADRANGLE 2      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   |                      ||                      |
   +----------------------++----------------------+
   40 8.5000            40 8.5000               40 8.5000
   119 8.5000           119 0.0000              118 50.5000

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#36393

In message <o1qck4$f81$2@news.mixmin.net>, Raymond Spruance III 
<spruancerayIII@example.com> writes:
[]
>   Unfortunately OziExplorer expects degrees and decimal minutes.
>   Here is a web site that will convert from DMS to DDM.
>   http://jeeep.com/details/coord
[]
There's a "dms" button in the standard Windows calculator (Scientific 
view), though I can't figure out how to use it!
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The squeamish will squeam a lot.
(Barry Norman on the film "300", in Radio Times 30 March-5 April 2013.)

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#36405

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in 
news:0bZtUJZZxUQYFw9B@soft255.demon.co.uk:

> There's a "dms" button in the standard Windows calculator (Scientific 
> view), though I can't figure out how to use it!


I think it's really designed for decimal degrees, not DDM (degrees with 
decimal minutes). For instance:

Convert D:M:S to decimal degrees:
Enter degrees/minutes/seconds in the format deg.mmss, then press the 
[Inv][deg] keys. The display will be decimal degrees.

Convert decimal degrees to D:M:S :
Enter decimal degrees, then press the [dms] key. The diplay will be in 
the format deg.mmss (and decimal seconds if result isn't an exact number 
of seconds).

You can make it work for DDM, though, by leaving off the degrees and just 
converting M:S to decimal minutes:
Enter minutes/seconds in the format mm.ss, then press the [Inv][deg] 
keys. The display will be decimal minutes. Append that to your degrees 
and you'll have DDM.

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#36408

On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 02:05:35 -0000 (UTC), dg1261
<dgREMOVE-THIS1261@cs.com> wrote:

> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in 
> news:0bZtUJZZxUQYFw9B@soft255.demon.co.uk:
> 
> > There's a "dms" button in the standard Windows calculator (Scientific 
> > view), though I can't figure out how to use it!
> 
> I think it's really designed for decimal degrees, not DDM (degrees with 
> decimal minutes). For instance:

Yes, in both XP & W7 versions it's just marked degrees, not dms.

> Convert D:M:S to decimal degrees:
> Enter degrees/minutes/seconds in the format deg.mmss, then press the 
> [Inv][deg] keys. The display will be decimal degrees.
> 
> Convert decimal degrees to D:M:S :

[snip]

Or just use one of the Latitude or Longitude fields in my Satellite or
Terrestrial Calculator pages:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/SatelliteTV/SatelliteCalculator.php
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/TerrestrialTV/TerrestrialCalculator.php

The fields can accept input as signed decimal degrees or either D:M:S
or D<degree symbol>M'M" followed by [NS or WE].  So input as the one
you want to convert, and then change the DMS checkbox for the desired
output, and the field display will automatically update  -  probably
best to input a zero in the other field to stop the rest of the
calculator throwing a wobbly  -  after all, they were both designed to
do something rather different!

Incidentally, I kept out of the OP discussion because it became
obvious that it concerned US maps, but if anybody wants to convert
English tracks, paths, etc between different formats or coordinate
system, or just see them on an Ordnance Survey map, this page might
prove useful:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/ProgScriptWeb/UKOSFeatures.php

I've just been using it intensively for the first time in quite a
while to work out road distances for a local project I'm involved in,
and although I'd like to make some improvements as a result of all
that use, it was plenty good enough to get the job done.  FTR, the
improvements are:

	+	In the single feature select and edit mode, I'd like the
cursor to change when you're exactly over a feature, so that you know
when to click to select it;

	+	Implement an undo for all of the drawing modes, instead of
just the polygon.

	+	Have the dimensions update in real time, so that you don't
have to unselect and reselect an object to read off its dimensions
accurately.

There are also other pages in the same ProgScriptWeb section of my
site that show how to create web pages with interactive maps, etc:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/ProgScriptWeb/ProgScriptWeb.html
-- 
========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist.  Or use a contact address at:
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

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#36414

J. P. Gilliver (John) pretended :
> In message <o1qck4$f81$2@news.mixmin.net>, Raymond Spruance III 
> <spruancerayIII@example.com> writes:
> []
>>   Unfortunately OziExplorer expects degrees and decimal minutes.
>>   Here is a web site that will convert from DMS to DDM.
>>   http://jeeep.com/details/coord
> []
> There's a "dms" button in the standard Windows calculator (Scientific view), 
> though I can't figure out how to use it!

Right click and click on "What's this".

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#36132

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:24:30 -0900, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

> I am going to let you figure the rest out from Ozi help.  Search help for 
> "calibrate" and it should be first item that will explain how to calibrate 
> the map.
> 
> Let me know how it goes.

Hi Bill Bradshaw,

You're a genius!
You solved the original question!

Everything I wanted is in your suggestion above!
a. I now have free offline USGS maps on Windows 
b. I can view a track on those calibrated USGS maps
b. And I have a track elevation profile on Windows

I haven't yet figured out how to stitch two different USGS quadrangles
(since my track spans quadrangles) but on one quadrangle, I've been able to
view the track offline on the USGS map after calibrating the map!

Here is how I calibrated the USGS 1:24 map in OziExplorer:
1. Copy the USGS TIF conversed map to .\OziExplorer\Maps\usgs_01.tif
   Note that USGS topographic maps are easy to calibrate because each 
   corner is marked with the latitude and longitude, so write down the
   coordinates for each corner below for your USGS map.
2. Convert the four USGS corner degrees, minutes, seconds if necessary:
   http://www.directionsmag.com/site/latlong-converter/
   TopLeft = (write it down)
   BotRight = (write it down)
   TopRight = (write it down)
   BotLeft = (write it down)
3. Start the trial version (OziExpTrial.exe).
4. Click OziExpTrial: File > Load & Calibrate Map Image
5. Left click on the top left corner of the USGS map to mark "Point 1".
6. Manually type the top left coordinates into the Point 1 box.
7. Do the same for the other 3 corners of the USGS map (point 2, 3, & 4).
8. Then press Save in the calibration popup window.
9. Check calibration by comparing measurements to the USGS printed ruler.
   OziExplorerTrial: View > Distance Display > 
   (Click on the left edge of the rule & then on the right end of the ruler)
   (For example, it should display 3km for the standard USGS 3km ruler.)

I will write up a summary because OziExplorer is a complex set of software,
but the only nagging question I have is how to stitch together two USGS
quadrangles because all my tracks cross two of them at least.

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#35995

On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:04:20 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:

> I use Viking and GpsMaster.

Thanks for the suggestion of Viking for Windows:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/

And for suggesting GPSMaster for Windows:
https://www.gpsmaster.nl/

The problem with Viking, from reading the description, is that it uses only
OSM maps which are so bad as to be unusable for any real kind of non-trail
backcountry hiking. OSM maps are great on the road, and they're good for
on-trail hiking but when you go off the trail, the OSM maps are almost worse
than not having them, they're that bad.

I can't tell from the description if GPS Master has the same problem, but it
seems to be using OSM maps also, and not USGS maps, based on the
screenshots.

Too bad the underlying maps are bad, because otherwise, based on the
descriptions and screenshots, the programs seem to do what I needed.

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#35998

"Raymond Spruance III" <spruancerayIII@example.com> wrote in message 
news:o0l5qr$827$1@news.mixmin.net...
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:04:20 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
>
>> I use Viking and GpsMaster.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion of Viking for Windows:
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/
>
> And for suggesting GPSMaster for Windows:
> https://www.gpsmaster.nl/
>
> The problem with Viking, from reading the description, is that it uses 
> only
> OSM maps which are so bad as to be unusable for any real kind of non-trail
> backcountry hiking. OSM maps are great on the road, and they're good for
> on-trail hiking but when you go off the trail, the OSM maps are almost 
> worse
> than not having them, they're that bad.
>
> I can't tell from the description if GPS Master has the same problem, but 
> it
> seems to be using OSM maps also, and not USGS maps, based on the
> screenshots.
>
> Too bad the underlying maps are bad, because otherwise, based on the
> descriptions and screenshots, the programs seem to do what I needed.

I'm in the UK where we have excellent Ordnance Survey (OS) maps in various 
scales - the two most common are 1:50,000 (slightly larger than 1 in = 1 
mile) and 1:25,000. The OS used to do 1:63360 (1 in = 1 mile). The 50K and 
25K maps are available electronically as well as in folded paper maps which 
(fully unfolded) are about a yard square.

These are good because they sufficient features such as churches, rivers, 
bridges, contours, woods, footpaths that you can work out where you are and 
what's coming up, in the absence of an exact GPS fix.

But they are not free. There are Android/iPhone apps such as Viewranger 
which plot your position and record/display your track on offline OS maps 
(which you have to buy, either singly or as a bundle). Various sites such as 
Bing and Streetview display OS maps (but I haven't found a way of displaying 
a track on an OS map using them), and they are online-only. I imagine the 
associated adverts on the page pay for the subscription costs to the OS.

I find maps such as Google's and OSM to be far too bland (especially Google) 
and I feel lost without familiar landmark symbols of OS maps. Also Google 
maps start to lose details such as minor roads and place names as you zoom 
out - they declutter a bit too aggressively :-)

For large-scale maps that show street names and buildings, Google's maps are 
nearly as good as the large-scale OS ones. 

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#36003

On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 22:12:53 -0000, NY wrote:

> For large-scale maps that show street names and buildings, Google's maps are 
> nearly as good as the large-scale OS ones.

Comparing the UK OS maps to the OSM maps was interesting, so thanks for that 
data.

Personally, I find the Google Maps topography map only "pretty" with the 
lovely shading but not very useful because it grays out when you zoom in 
close. Plus, Google Topo Maps only work online so they're useless when you 
need them.

On the other hand, the OSM maps are downloadable, but they are so inaccurate 
in topographic detail that it isn't funny.

The USGS maps are accurate for the most part.

All my hiking is in places that have no roads or objects to speak of.
So, for me, the only thing that matters is accurate topography.

Have you compared the UK OS maps to the US USGS maps in topography detail?

Here's an arbitrary example of a USGS topo map as the screenshot of the USGS 
web site shows:
https://www.usgs.gov/products/maps/topo-maps

Here's that representative image:
https://prd-wret.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/carousel_large/public/thumbnails/image/UStopo.png

How do the UK OS maps compare to those in topographic detail?

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#36013

"Raymond Spruance III" <spruancerayIII@example.com> wrote in message 
news:o0lik3$vs1$1@news.mixmin.net...
> The USGS maps are accurate for the most part.
>
> All my hiking is in places that have no roads or objects to speak of.
> So, for me, the only thing that matters is accurate topography.
>
> Have you compared the UK OS maps to the US USGS maps in topography detail?
>
> Here's an arbitrary example of a USGS topo map as the screenshot of the 
> USGS
> web site shows:
> https://www.usgs.gov/products/maps/topo-maps
>
> Here's that representative image:
> https://prd-wret.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/carousel_large/public/thumbnails/image/UStopo.png
>
> How do the UK OS maps compare to those in topographic detail?

http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=313365&y=518325&z=120&sv=313365,518325&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=564&ax=313365&ay=518325&lm=0

is a section of similarly hilly terrain in the Lake District (north west 
England, just south of Scotland). The link takes you to the 1:50,000 map; if 
you click on the + sign at the RHS, you'll see a 1:25,000 map centred on the 
same point but showing a smaller area.

In both cases, the grid is 1 km x 1 km. I'm not sure what scale the USGS 
map. By comparison with Google map of the area, it looks as if the grid 
lines are every 1/2 mile, so slightly more closely spaced that a 1 km grid 
of OS maps.

In both cases you've got contours, coast/lake shores, roads. The red dashed 
lines on OS maps are: equally-spaced red/white are public footpaths (eg east 
of the word Mosedale) and longer red dashes are public bridleways (horses, 
cyclists but no motor vehicles). The black dashed lines (eg going up to 
summit at 512 m, east of "Mosedale" wording) are tracks that may or may not 
be open to the public. For some reason, footpaths/bridleways are red on 
1:50K and green on 1:25K. The irregular lines near "Mellbreak" are crags: 
outcrops of rock that may have sheer drops.

OS maps contain useful features like transmitter masts and churches which 
you can use to take bearings from.

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/docs/legends/50k-raster-legend.pdf
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/docs/legends/25k-raster-legend.pdf 

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#36027

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 16:36:40 -0000, NY wrote:

>  The link takes you to the 1:50,000 map; if 
> you click on the + sign at the RHS, you'll see a 1:25,000 map centred on the 
> same point but showing a smaller area.

I am not a USGS map expert so many here can correct me.

The maps I find for Android and Windows that are free from the USGS seem to
mostly be on what they seem to call "1:24,000 scale."

This PDF from the USGS says that it's also called 7.5-minute series."
http://education.usgs.gov/lessons/mapmargin.pdf

Apparently that means the "map" itself covers 7.5 minutes of longitude and
7.5 minutes of latitude. 

This PDF shows a map on the second page which is pretty typical of the free
maps I can get on Windows and mobile devices for any desired spot in the
United States.
http://education.usgs.gov/lessons/map_margins_2p.pdf

I'm sure all sorts of "scales" are available for a fee from the USGS, but
those 1:24000 maps are ubiquitous, so, to answer your question, that's the
minimum accuracy that I need.

The many OSM maps I've checked have *never* come even remotely close in
accuracy to the free USGS maps, so I've given up on OSM maps. I love the OSM
concept and it will eventually (maybe ten or twenty years from now?) beat
out the USGS maps like they have for road maps already but OSM topographic
maps are too far behind USGS maps at the moment to be of any practical use
in the field.

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#36064

Raymond Spruance III schrieb:

[...]
> This PDF shows a map on the second page which is pretty typical of the free
> maps I can get on Windows and mobile devices for any desired spot in the
> United States.
> http://education.usgs.gov/lessons/map_margins_2p.pdf

I hope your GPS device is able to handle the map datum: otherwise
you'll wonder why the place where you are doesn't correspond to where
you should be according to the map.

AFAIK default datum with Garmin devices is WGS84.

Best regards

Reinhard

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#36066

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:03:30 +0100, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:

> I hope your GPS device is able to handle the map datum: otherwise
> you'll wonder why the place where you are doesn't correspond to where
> you should be according to the map.
> 
> AFAIK default datum with Garmin devices is WGS84.

Why does the word "datum" matter for this context?

I don't understand your comment, because I have never had any problem
whatsoever with USGS maps working on my Android mobile phone, without even
knowing what a "datum" is.

My "gps device" is simply an Android phone, which handles *every* free
offline USGS topo map I ever threw at it, datum or no datum.

For example Backcountry Nav Topo Maps GPS free from CritterMap Software LLC
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crittermap.backcountrynavigator

US Topo Maps Free by ATLOGIS Geoinformatics GmbH
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.atlogis.northamerica.free

My Trails free by Frog Sparks
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.frogsparks.mytrails

Locus Map Free Outdoor GPS by Asamm Software, s. r. o.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=menion.android.locus

That last option, of Locus Map Free, even allows you to *follow* a
previously defined route.

How does the word "datum" apply in the four common map freeware options
above?

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#36068

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:08:21 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III wrote:

> My "gps device" is simply an Android phone, which handles *every* free
> offline USGS topo map I ever threw at it, datum or no datum.
> 
> For example Backcountry Nav Topo Maps GPS free from CritterMap Software LLC
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crittermap.backcountrynavigator
> 
> US Topo Maps Free by ATLOGIS Geoinformatics GmbH
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.atlogis.northamerica.free
> 
> My Trails free by Frog Sparks
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.frogsparks.mytrails
> 
> Locus Map Free Outdoor GPS by Asamm Software, s. r. o.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=menion.android.locus

While I don't know where the word "datum" plays a role in backcountry hiking 
and navigation tracking and viewing elevation profiles offline, I had 
recently wiped out my phone by setting it to factory defaults, so I'm going 
to reload the four map programs above, and so that others can benefit, I'll 
detail how to install, for free, any USGS topo map you want on your Android 
phone.

I'll start with Backcountry Nav Topo Maps GPS by CritterMap Software LLC
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crittermap.backcountrynavigator

1. Install Backcountry Nav Topo Maps GPS by Crittermap, at Google Play
2. Turn on your GPS (so that maps default to your local tile)
3. Run Backcountry Nav 
4. To load a map, press the "Map Layers Menu" button (top right of center)
5. Select "Map Layers > Choose Map Source" 
6. Press "Choose Map Source" & Select the "USA" button
7. From the many choices, choose "USA: Topo Maps"
8. From the many choices, choose one of:
CalTopo US 24K Topo Maps (free) 
CalTopo (free)
USA Topo Mqaps - ArcGIS (free)
USTopo: Imagery with Markup (free)
USGS Topo Maps (free)
National Map Imagery Topo (free)
US Forest Service (free)
Alaska Topo (free)
etc.

NOTE: There are many other free maps to choose from, but these are the 
basics.

8. Once you have a map tile in view, you'll want to download for offline use
9. Long press anywhere on the map tile in view to bring up a menu
10. Press "Select Areas for Download"
11. Sweep with one finger blue rectangles to download 
NOTE: You can zoom in or out, and overlap rectangles until you get the 
entire area you wish to download for offline use.
12. Once the area is selected, press the "Download your selection" button
13. You'll get a few options for naming conventions & folders & space needed
14. When you're done with the download options, select "proceed"
Note: I downloaded about a 20-mile square of USGS Topo Maps at maximum zoom, 
which took up about 200MB.

Note that Backcountry Navigator Free will allow you to track your progress 
on a USGS Topo Map offline while you hike, displaying the track on the 
offline map as you hike, so, it's better than using OSMTracker, which will 
do the same, but only for an OSM map online.

That's why I only use OSMTracker to create the GPX track, since it's a nice 
quick easy interface (you just turn it on and it starts tracking).

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#36071

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:54:12 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III wrote:

>> US Topo Maps Free by ATLOGIS Geoinformatics GmbH
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.atlogis.northamerica.free

0. Turn on your GPS if you want the maps to default to your location.

1. Install US Topo Maps Free by ATLOGIS Geoinformatics GmbH
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.atlogis.northamerica.free

NOTE: I re-installed version 2.6.3 because the program got worse in later
versions, apparently, because step 6 below failed.

2. Accept the EULA & walk through the tutorial.
3. Press the hamburger menu & select "Choose Map"
4. Of the many choices I picked "US Topo traditional DRGs"
4. Of the many choices I picked "Scanned Topo Maps USA dynamic" 
4. Of the many choices I picked "USGS National Map Topo" 
5. To save for offline use, I pressed the three dots icon at top right
6. From there, I pressed Cache Map > Drat. It won't cache maps!

I'm sure it used to cache maps, so, I will backtrack to the older version,
and start fresh. 

I am glad I save the *old* APKs of all apps installed!


 

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#36070

Raymond Spruance III schrieb:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:03:30 +0100, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:
> 
>> I hope your GPS device is able to handle the map datum: otherwise
>> you'll wonder why the place where you are doesn't correspond to where
>> you should be according to the map.
>>
>> AFAIK default datum with Garmin devices is WGS84.

> Why does the word "datum" matter for this context?
> 
> I don't understand your comment, because I have never had any problem
> whatsoever with USGS maps working on my Android mobile phone, without even
> knowing what a "datum" is.

To give a pair of coordinates to find a certain point on the earth's
surface is useless without knowing the geodetic/map datum:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodetic_datum>

<quote>

Horizontal datum

The horizontal datum is the model used to measure positions on the
Earth. A specific point on the Earth can have substantially different
coordinates, depending on the datum used to make the measurement.
There are hundreds of local horizontal datums around the world,
usually referenced to some convenient local reference point.
Contemporary datums, based on increasingly accurate measurements of
the shape of the Earth, are intended to cover larger areas. The WGS
84 datum, which is almost identical to the NAD83 datum used in North
America and the ETRS89 datum used in Europe, is a common standard
datum.[citation needed]

For example, in Sydney there is a 200 metres (700 feet) difference
between GPS coordinates configured in GDA (based on global standard
WGS 84) and AGD (used for most local maps), which is an unacceptably
large error for some applications, such as surveying or site location
for scuba diving.[1]

</quote>

See also #4 in the map information on page 1:

<http://education.usgs.gov/lessons/map_margins_2p.pdf>

Hence: if you use different maps _together_ with a GPS device you
must always ensure for correct navigation that the geodetic datum of
the map is the same as the datum which the GPS device uses to compute
your position.

But if you use maps just as a stand-alone navigation tool for, say,
hiking then map datum IMHO can be neglected.

HTH

Reinhard

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#36072

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:26:35 +0100, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:

> But if you use maps just as a stand-alone navigation tool for, say,
> hiking then map datum IMHO can be neglected.

Pretty much that's what I do.
I simply use the Android device to show a map and a track on top of that
map.

The maps I use are standard USGS free topo maps, which are good enough for
hiking off trail.

OSM maps are not anywhere near good enough though.

I never needed to worry about a datum under *those* circumstances.

That's the great thing about standards.

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#36075

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 02:34:14 -0000 (UTC), Raymond Spruance III wrote:

> I never needed to worry about a datum under *those* circumstances.
> 
> That's the great thing about standards.

Alas, standards can be different enough that an attitude like yours can
lead to a catastrophe like the Columbia disaster. Cheers, -- tlvp
-- 
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

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#36079

In article <1q6h0krhpcldw.ahpuga4x0316$.dlg@40tude.net>, tlvp
<mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:

> 
> > I never needed to worry about a datum under *those* circumstances.
> > 
> > That's the great thing about standards.
> 
> Alas, standards can be different enough that an attitude like yours can
> lead to a catastrophe like the Columbia disaster. Cheers, -- tlvp

that had nothing to do with standards. 

the columbia disaster was entirely due to negligence. nasa knew of the
foam issue (it happened many times before) and thought it would all be
ok, as it had in the past. they were wrong.

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#36115

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 08:24:34 -0500, nospam wrote:

> In article <1q6h0krhpcldw.ahpuga4x0316$.dlg@40tude.net>, tlvp
> <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> I never needed to worry about a datum under *those* circumstances.
>>> 
>>> That's the great thing about standards.
>> 
>> Alas, standards can be different enough that an attitude like yours can
>> lead to a catastrophe like the Columbia disaster. Cheers, -- tlvp
> 
> that had nothing to do with standards. 
> 
> the columbia disaster was entirely due to negligence. nasa knew of the
> foam issue (it happened many times before) and thought it would all be
> ok, as it had in the past. they were wrong.

You mean it *wasn't* the difference between British and Metric in the
gasketry dimensioning specs? OK, I stand corrected. Cheers, -- tlvp
-- 
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

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