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Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

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  Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-23 16:45 +0000
    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-23 12:35 -0700
      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-23 23:47 +0200
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 00:04 +0000
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 00:10 +0000
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 03:49 +0200
      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 00:04 +0000
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 18:03 -0700
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 18:09 -0700
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 01:23 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 18:58 -0700
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-23 22:02 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 02:41 +0000
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 01:42 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 04:00 +0200
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 02:41 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 04:57 +0200
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 15:24 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 11:38 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-25 20:13 +0100
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 22:44 +0200
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 20:39 -0700
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 04:00 +0000
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 21:34 -0700
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:24 +0200
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 08:43 -0700
                                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-26 18:17 +0000
                                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-28 00:22 +0200
                                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2016-09-28 14:17 +0100
                                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-10-01 16:28 +0200
                                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2016-10-01 20:56 +0100
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-26 11:51 -0400
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-09-26 10:15 -0600
                                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 09:48 -0700
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-26 12:55 -0400
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 11:12 -0700
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-26 18:23 +0000
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:27 +0200
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-29 07:38 -0700
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2016-09-29 15:16 +0000
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-29 09:07 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-24 02:12 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 16:15 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 03:58 +0200
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 10:02 -0700
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 10:31 -0700
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 04:14 +0200
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 02:23 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:01 +0200
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 08:51 -0700
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-28 00:30 +0200
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> - 2016-09-26 18:19 +0200
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-27 04:08 -0400
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> - 2016-09-27 18:35 +0200
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-27 17:22 +0000
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2016-09-27 20:39 +0200
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-28 02:40 -0400
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-10-01 16:34 +0200
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> - 2016-09-29 11:40 +0200
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 19:56 -0700
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:05 +0200
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 20:38 +0200
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 04:17 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 02:35 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:07 +0200
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:23 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 04:18 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 02:38 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:12 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-26 10:23 +0100
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:13 +0200
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-26 15:50 +0100
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-28 00:35 +0200
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-23 20:20 -0700
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 22:42 -0700
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-23 23:49 -0700
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 16:24 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Chris in Makati <mail@nospam.com> - 2016-09-25 10:52 +0100
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 12:13 +0200
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Chris in Makati <mail@nospam.com> - 2016-09-25 15:46 +0100
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-25 10:26 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 20:47 +0200
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-25 20:22 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-24 10:58 -0700
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 21:31 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-24 18:28 -0400
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 16:53 -0700
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-25 01:15 -0400
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 16:19 +0200
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 11:05 -0700
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 11:23 -0700
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:23 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 20:46 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:23 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 21:27 -0700
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-28 10:16 -0700
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-28 10:44 -0700
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 17:52 +0000
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-28 11:25 -0700
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 20:41 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2016-09-26 14:21 -0500
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-24 18:26 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 02:45 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-25 01:20 -0400
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2016-09-25 17:34 +0200
    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-09-24 11:24 +0200
    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2016-09-24 19:31 +0200

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#34926

On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:16:02 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
<dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 20:39:26 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>There are also some cheats, such as AT&T.  Their solution is to assume
>>that anyone calling 911 is in a vehicle.  This is a good assumption
>>based on caller statistics.  In California, when you call 911, you
>>don't get the local 911 PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point).  You get
>>the Highway Patrol.

>WTF? That made sense back in 1985 but now?

Which part of what I wrote doesn't make sense today?

This might help explain why mobile 911 calls go to the CHP:
<http://www.emergencymgmt.com/safety/California-Analyzes-Cell-Phone-911-Project-Red.html>
If you're not in California, the situation might be different.

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#34789

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:38:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Maybe this will help:
> <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6775257/android-location-providers-gps-or-network-provider>
> 
> My guess(tm) is:
>   wifi only = Wild guess based on various inaccurate databases,
>               geodata, IP location, etc.
>   coarse = GPS only.
>   fine = AGPS (assisted GPS) using location data from cell site.
> 
> There's also the Fused Location Provider:
> <http://blog.lemberg.co.uk/fused-location-provider>
> <https://commonsware.com/Android/previews/the-fused-location-provider>
>   "...will blend data from GPS, cell tower triangulation, and 
>   WiFi hotspot proximity to determine the device’s location, 
>   without your having to manually set all of that up."

This is confusing that there are *four* location providers:
1. gps (GPS satellites)
2. network (GPS satellites + cell tower ids and WiFi MAC addresses)
3. passive (cell tower ids and WiFi MAC addresses)
4. Fused (last location, + two other confusing things)

But only two types of location access permission:
a. android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION
b. android.permission.ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION

Namely:

1. gps uses android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION which does not require
a "network" lookup back to the mother ship.

2. network uses *either* of the two permission types (it doesn't matter
because each one enables the other according to Jeff's other reference!)

The interesting point is that the results are indirect in that a *network
lookup* from an existing database is what supplies the location.

And, notice that this network lookup *combines* the GPS location (fine
access) with the results from the Google database of access point MAC
address and/or cell tower ID number (coarse access).

3. passive uses android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION

In contrast, the passive location provider doesn't use your current GPS
fix, so it just goes into the Google Database to look up the nearest access
point MAC addresses and/or cell tower id numbers.

4. fused is confusing but seems to have last location, continuous, and
background (but I really don't understand this at all).

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#34711

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 01:42:03 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:03:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> 
>> There are also apps for managing permissions:
>> <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=permissions%20manager&c=apps&hl=en>
> 
> That list brings up something that always confused me about App Ops Starter
> (com.schurich.android.tools.appopsstarter) reports on "course location,
> fine location" as can be seen in "Email" and "Firefox" on the screenshot
> below:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/di3NN6.png
> 
> When I look at Firefox', it has a *switch* to turn off access location:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/2uW611.png
> 
> But, when I look at Email, it does *not* have that switch:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/GhyJRj.png
> 
> Can someone explain:
> a. Why do both Email & Firefox say "fine location, course location" but
> only Firefox can be turned off with App Ops Starter?
> 
> b. What is the *difference* between "fine location" and "course location"
> anyway (with respect to location-access permissions)?

Can you *really* bring yourself to trust an app whose developer contrasts
"fine" with "course" (and not the more appropriate "coarse")? What other
more dangerous typos may have found their way into the app's code?

Cheers, -- tlvp
-- 
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

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#34717

On 2016-09-24 08:12, tlvp wrote:

> Can you *really* bring yourself to trust an app whose developer contrasts
> "fine" with "course" (and not the more appropriate "coarse")? What other
> more dangerous typos may have found their way into the app's code?

No, it was an spelling error by Horace, not by the application.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34733

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:15:49 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> No, it was an spelling error by Horace, not by the application.

I would rather plead nolo contendere to the charges, but, in light of the
facts, my plea is mea culpa.

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#34694

> Thanks for that input. In my case, location is asked by the map apps, but
> not necessarily by the clock app or ES File Explorer, or the WiFi Analyzer. 

The WiFi analyzer may need to know what country it is in, because the
law changes, and with it the channels that are available. The
application may thus autoconfigure to only listen in the legal channels
for the current country.

Just one reason it occurred to me.


> I'm not sure what that tells me, but it makes sense that if an app truly
> *needs* the location, that it should simply *ask* for the location access
> at the time it needs it.

Depending on the Android version, permissions are requested at install
time or at runtime.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34778

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 03:58:27 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:

>
>> Thanks for that input. In my case, location is asked by the map apps, but
>> not necessarily by the clock app or ES File Explorer, or the WiFi Analyzer. 
>
>The WiFi analyzer may need to know what country it is in, because the
>law changes, and with it the channels that are available. The
>application may thus autoconfigure to only listen in the legal channels
>for the current country.
>
>Just one reason it occurred to me.

Nope.  WiFi Analyzer is a receive only (passive) sniffer/monitor
program.  It doesn't transmit.  The various rules and regulatations
are for transmit power and frequencies, and would not apply to a
receiver.  As long as the receiver meets incidental radiation (FCC
Part 15) requirements which is handled by the maker of the tablet or
cellphone.  If someone wants to use WiFi Analyzer as a connection
manager, the available transmit channels will be automagically limited
by the tablet or smartphone firmware, not the application.

Looking at WiFi Analyzer, it will receive from Ch 1 to 14, which is
well outside the US range of Ch 1 to 11.  There is no country setting
in the app settings.

>> I'm not sure what that tells me, but it makes sense that if an app truly
>> *needs* the location, that it should simply *ask* for the location access
>> at the time it needs it.
>
>Depending on the Android version, permissions are requested at install
>time or at runtime.

That's changing.
<https://inthecheesefactory.com/blog/things-you-need-to-know-about-android-m-permission-developer-edition/en>
  "In Android 6.0 Marshmallow, application will not be granted any
  permission at installation time. Instead, application has to 
  ask user for a permission one-by-one at runtime."

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#34780

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:02:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Looking at WiFi Analyzer, it will receive from Ch 1 to 14, which is
>well outside the US range of Ch 1 to 11.  There is no country setting
>in the app settings.

More details:

On 5GHz, WiFi analyzer looks at 16 channels at a time.  There's a
sliding window at the top of the screen to allow users to select which
16 channels to view.  Looks like the end to end range is 5170 to 5815
MHz.

Also, I goofed a little on how channels are selected.  In the WiFi
Analyzer settings, there are two pages for setting the available
channels for 2.4 and 5GHz bands.  The list appears to be pre-populated
for US channels.  I have no idea what will happen if the tablet is
moved to another jurisdiction.  It might be automatic, or it might be
a manual ordeal filling out the proper channels.  It might also be
limited by the capabilities of the Wi-Fi radio.

The full list allows scanning from:
2.4GHz  Ch 1 to 15
5GHz    Ch 183 (4915MHz) to Ch 165 (5825Mhz)


Drivel:  I have my Linksys EA2700 router set to "auto channel" on
5GHz.  There are only a few 5GHz routers in my neighborhood, so I
would expect to find them evenly distributed among the available
frequencies.  That's roughly what I found when I started writing this
rant.  After about 10 mins, I find that all 4 of the visible systems,
including mine, had moved and are now piled up near the top of the
frequency range, including mine.  That's all of them within a few
channels of each other with plenty of overlap.  Yet another Wi-Fi
feature that doesn't work quite right.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/5GHz-clutter.png>

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#34790

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:31:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>  In the WiFi
> Analyzer settings, there are two pages for setting the available
> channels for 2.4 and 5GHz bands.  The list appears to be pre-populated
> for US channels.  I have no idea what will happen if the tablet is
> moved to another jurisdiction.  It might be automatic, or it might be
> a manual ordeal filling out the proper channels.  It might also be
> limited by the capabilities of the Wi-Fi radio.
> 
> The full list allows scanning from:
> 2.4GHz  Ch 1 to 15
> 5GHz    Ch 183 (4915MHz) to Ch 165 (5825Mhz)

It would be nice if some of our European friends on this ng would install
and test that WiFi analyzer to tell us how it works with the European
2.4GHz channels.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer

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#34798

On 2016-09-26 02:22, Horace Algiers wrote:

> It would be nice if some of our European friends on this ng would install
> and test that WiFi analyzer to tell us how it works with the European
> 2.4GHz channels.

I see 1 to 14, 15 is out. But the list is manually configurable. And
second but, 15 is not an option to enable.

The 5 GHz band enables 36 40 44 48 149 153 157 161, but it does not
appear to work.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34801

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 04:14:29 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I see 1 to 14, 15 is out. But the list is manually configurable. And
> second but, 15 is not an option to enable.

Thank you very much for posting that, in your locale, the channels for WiFi
Analyzer are different than they are for us in the USA (as Jeff reported
it).

I presume you're in Germany? 

DISCLIAMER: (Most non-USA posters seem to be in Germany, so that's just a
guess, although with a name like Carlos, your heritage is likely more
Mediterranean if not south Germany).

> The 5 GHz band enables 36 40 44 48 149 153 157 161, but it does not
> appear to work.

The GUI is a bit non intuitive where you have to actually press the 2.4GHz
button to get 5GHz and even then, you have to scroll - so - "maybe" it's a
GUI thing?

NOTE: I'm not attacking you - I'm just saying the GUI isn't intuitive and
sometimes it doesn't report what you think because you have to control the
GUI to get it to report what you want (at least that's my humble opinion).

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#34813

On 2016-09-26 04:23, Horace Algiers wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 04:14:29 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> I see 1 to 14, 15 is out. But the list is manually configurable. And
>> second but, 15 is not an option to enable.
> 
> Thank you very much for posting that, in your locale, the channels for WiFi
> Analyzer are different than they are for us in the USA (as Jeff reported
> it).
> 
> I presume you're in Germany? 

Nope. More to the south. Spain. Didn't you notice the ".es" in my faked
email? ;-)


> DISCLIAMER: (Most non-USA posters seem to be in Germany, so that's just a
> guess, although with a name like Carlos, your heritage is likely more
> Mediterranean if not south Germany).

Ah, I see.

>> The 5 GHz band enables 36 40 44 48 149 153 157 161, but it does not
>> appear to work.
> 
> The GUI is a bit non intuitive where you have to actually press the 2.4GHz
> button to get 5GHz and even then, you have to scroll - so - "maybe" it's a
> GUI thing?

I don't see the 2.4 Ghz button :-?
Is it in "wifi analyzer" app?

I don't really know if my tablet has that wifi band, anyway.

> NOTE: I'm not attacking you - I'm just saying the GUI isn't intuitive and
> sometimes it doesn't report what you think because you have to control the
> GUI to get it to report what you want (at least that's my humble opinion).

No problem :-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34824

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:01:34 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:

>I don't see the 2.4 Ghz button :-?
>Is it in "wifi analyzer" app?

Yes.  However, it's tricky.  The "button" only appears if you have a
dual band Wi-Fi in your smartphone.  It's a square box, near the upper
left of the screen.  However, there seems to be a bug in WiFi Analyzer
that sometimes makes the square button disappear.  Just tap the area
where the button is suppose to be, and it will work.  On this page:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/5GHz-clutter.png>
It appears just to the left of the 5170Mhz.  When I tap it on my
Google Nexus 7 tablet, a "5G" appears in the that area momentarily,
and then switches to "2.4G".  Ugly, but functional when needed.  I
submitted a bug report, but that was 2 years ago.


-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#34874

On 2016-09-26 17:51, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:01:34 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:
> 
>> I don't see the 2.4 Ghz button :-?
>> Is it in "wifi analyzer" app?
> 
> Yes.  However, it's tricky.  The "button" only appears if you have a
> dual band Wi-Fi in your smartphone.  It's a square box, near the upper
> left of the screen.  However, there seems to be a bug in WiFi Analyzer
> that sometimes makes the square button disappear.  Just tap the area
> where the button is suppose to be, and it will work.  On this page:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/5GHz-clutter.png>
> It appears just to the left of the 5170Mhz.  When I tap it on my
> Google Nexus 7 tablet, a "5G" appears in the that area momentarily,
> and then switches to "2.4G".  Ugly, but functional when needed.  I
> submitted a bug report, but that was 2 years ago.

Then it must be my tablet is single band.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34827

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Spain. Didn't you notice the ".es" in my faked email? ;-)

Why does one have to assume it's fake? The fact that it *currently*
isn't registered does *not* mean it never will be registered.
So you're assuming the identity of a future owner of the domain.

-p

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#34856

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:19:01 +0200, Piet wrote:

> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Spain. Didn't you notice the ".es" in my faked email? ;-)
> 
> Why does one have to assume it's fake? The fact that it *currently*
> isn't registered does *not* mean it never will be registered.
> So you're assuming the identity of a future owner of the domain. ...

"invalid" will never become part of a registered domain name until the RFC
according to which it will never be part of a registered domain name is
superceded. Same for "example". In detail:

: In 1999, the Internet Engineering Task Force reserved the DNS labels
: example, invalid, localhost, and test so that they may not be installed
: into the root zone of the Domain Name System.

Cf. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.invalid> and/or RFC 2606.
-- 
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

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#34858

tlvp wrote:
> Piet wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> Spain. Didn't you notice the ".es" in my faked email? ;-)
>>
>> Why does one have to assume it's fake? The fact that it *currently*
>> isn't registered does *not* mean it never will be registered.
>> So you're assuming the identity of a future owner of the domain. ...
> 
> "invalid" will never become part of a registered domain name
> until the RFC according to which it will never be part of a
> registered domain name is superceded. Same for "example".

You're dead wrong. There are no reserved or forbidden subdomains
under any TLD or any subdomain. No RFC stands in the way of me
creating 'example' or 'invalid' onder my own domain.

> In detail:
> : In 1999, the Internet Engineering Task Force reserved the DNS labels
> : example, invalid, localhost, and test so that they may not be installed
> : into the root zone of the Domain Name System.

That's about the *root zone*, *not* about subdomains under TLD's.
As a matter of fact, "invalid" *is* a TLD, but a special one, and
DNS implementations *must* recognize it and refrain from querying
any nameserver in order to resolve it.

-p

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#34862

tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:19:01 +0200, Piet wrote:
> 
> > Carlos E.R. wrote:
> >> Spain. Didn't you notice the ".es" in my faked email? ;-)
> > 
> > Why does one have to assume it's fake? The fact that it *currently*
> > isn't registered does *not* mean it never will be registered.
> > So you're assuming the identity of a future owner of the domain. ...
> 
> "invalid" will never become part of a registered domain name until the RFC
> according to which it will never be part of a registered domain name is
> superceded. Same for "example". In detail:

  You apparently didn't notice the "<www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid>"
bit in Piet's 'From:' line! :-)

  Piet is the 'creator' (hence "godfather") of the Dutch part of the
Internet and his 'From:' line shows that the ".invalid" part is only
acceptable as the *last*/right-hand part of the domain name, i.e. the
*T*LD, *Top* Level Domain. (For another example, see my 'From:' line.)

  So if anyone does *not* needs lessons in this stuff, it's Piet! :-)

  But Piet is a nice guy, so no worries! :-)

> : In 1999, the Internet Engineering Task Force reserved the DNS labels
> : example, invalid, localhost, and test so that they may not be installed
> : into the root zone of the Domain Name System.
> 
> Cf. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.invalid> and/or RFC 2606.

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#34871

On 27 Sep 2016 17:22:21 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>   You apparently didn't notice the "<www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid>"
> bit in Piet's 'From:' line! :-)
> 
>   Piet is the 'creator' (hence "godfather") of the Dutch part of the
> Internet and his 'From:' line shows that the ".invalid" part is only
> acceptable as the *last*/right-hand part of the domain name, i.e. the
> *T*LD, *Top* Level Domain. (For another example, see my 'From:' line.)
> 
>   So if anyone does *not* needs lessons in this stuff, it's Piet! :-)

Wow, our very own celebrity! 8-)

-- 
s|b

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#34880

On 27 Sep 2016 17:22:21 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:19:01 +0200, Piet wrote:
>> 
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> Spain. Didn't you notice the ".es" in my faked email? ;-)
>>> 
>>> Why does one have to assume it's fake? The fact that it *currently*
>>> isn't registered does *not* mean it never will be registered.
>>> So you're assuming the identity of a future owner of the domain. ...
>> 
>> "invalid" will never become part of a registered domain name until the RFC
>> according to which it will never be part of a registered domain name is
>> superceded. Same for "example". In detail:
> 
>   You apparently didn't notice the "<www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid>"
> bit in Piet's 'From:' line! :-)
> 
>   Piet is the 'creator' (hence "godfather") of the Dutch part of the
> Internet and his 'From:' line shows that the ".invalid" part is only
> acceptable as the *last*/right-hand part of the domain name, i.e. the
> *T*LD, *Top* Level Domain. (For another example, see my 'From:' line.)
> 
>   So if anyone does *not* needs lessons in this stuff, it's Piet! :-)
> 
>   But Piet is a nice guy, so no worries! :-)

Well Frank, Dank U wel for the introduction; and Piet: pleased to meet you. 
While I now stand (abashed and) corrected, I still believe it's safe to say
*I* certainly thought "invalid.es" had to be the sort of fake domain that
would never be registered because of my overly loose understanding of the
RFC prohibitions against use of the text-string "invalid". 

Treat my post, then, not as any "lessons in this stuff" but as an insight
into my psychology :-) ... and perhaps that of Carlos E.R., as well. FWiW.

Cheers, and thanks again, -- tlvp
-- 
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

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