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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #34661 > unrolled thread

Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

Started byHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
First post2016-09-23 16:45 +0000
Last post2016-09-24 19:31 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 122 — 18 participants

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  Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-23 16:45 +0000
    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-23 12:35 -0700
      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-23 23:47 +0200
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 00:04 +0000
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 00:10 +0000
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 03:49 +0200
      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 00:04 +0000
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 18:03 -0700
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 18:09 -0700
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 01:23 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 18:58 -0700
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-23 22:02 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 02:41 +0000
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 01:42 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 04:00 +0200
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 02:41 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 04:57 +0200
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 15:24 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 11:38 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-25 20:13 +0100
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 22:44 +0200
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 20:39 -0700
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 04:00 +0000
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 21:34 -0700
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:24 +0200
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 08:43 -0700
                                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-26 18:17 +0000
                                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-28 00:22 +0200
                                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2016-09-28 14:17 +0100
                                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-10-01 16:28 +0200
                                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2016-10-01 20:56 +0100
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-26 11:51 -0400
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-09-26 10:15 -0600
                                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 09:48 -0700
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-26 12:55 -0400
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 11:12 -0700
                                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-26 18:23 +0000
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:27 +0200
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-29 07:38 -0700
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2016-09-29 15:16 +0000
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-29 09:07 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-24 02:12 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 16:15 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 03:58 +0200
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 10:02 -0700
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 10:31 -0700
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 04:14 +0200
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 02:23 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:01 +0200
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-26 08:51 -0700
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-28 00:30 +0200
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> - 2016-09-26 18:19 +0200
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-27 04:08 -0400
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> - 2016-09-27 18:35 +0200
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-27 17:22 +0000
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2016-09-27 20:39 +0200
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-28 02:40 -0400
                              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-10-01 16:34 +0200
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Piet <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> - 2016-09-29 11:40 +0200
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 19:56 -0700
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:05 +0200
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 20:38 +0200
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:22 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 04:17 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 02:35 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:07 +0200
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:23 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 04:18 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 02:38 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:12 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-26 10:23 +0100
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-26 16:13 +0200
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-26 15:50 +0100
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-28 00:35 +0200
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-23 20:20 -0700
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-23 22:42 -0700
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-23 23:49 -0700
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 16:24 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Chris in Makati <mail@nospam.com> - 2016-09-25 10:52 +0100
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 12:13 +0200
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Chris in Makati <mail@nospam.com> - 2016-09-25 15:46 +0100
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-25 10:26 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 20:47 +0200
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-25 20:22 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-24 10:58 -0700
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 21:31 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-24 18:28 -0400
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 16:53 -0700
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-25 01:15 -0400
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-24 16:19 +0200
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 11:05 -0700
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 11:23 -0700
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:23 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 20:46 -0700
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-26 00:23 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-25 21:27 -0700
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-28 10:16 -0700
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
                      Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-28 10:44 -0700
                        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 17:52 +0000
                          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-28 11:25 -0700
                            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 20:41 +0000
                  Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2016-09-26 14:21 -0500
                    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-28 16:30 +0000
            Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-24 18:26 -0400
              Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-25 02:45 +0200
                Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-25 01:20 -0400
          Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Horace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 +0000
        Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2016-09-25 17:34 +0200
    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-09-24 11:24 +0200
    Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it? "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2016-09-24 19:31 +0200

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#34661 — Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-23 16:45 +0000
SubjectDo you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Message-ID<ns3m74$1rdj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Why do so very many apps require location access anyway?

For example, *why* does ES File Explorer need location access?
http://i.cubeupload.com/HH2sfG.png

I'm shocked at how many apps "require" location access.

For example, why does the basic *clock* need location access?
http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png

A couple of days ago, when I factory reset Android 4.3 and re-installed all
my apps, one by one, from APKs, I decided to turn off location access for
all but the map apps.

It amazes me how many apps "require" location access.

I don't see why a WiFi Analyzer needs location access, do you? 
http://i.cubeupload.com/PKxm2Z.png

Why does the T-Mobile carrier-iq "System Manager Application" need it?
http://i.cubeupload.com/puQjf5.png

Or the Contacts app, for heaven's sake?
http://i.cubeupload.com/QDEOwe.png

The list goes on and on and on.
My "experiment" is to see if anything bad happens.
So far, after two days, nothing bad has happened yet.

So my question is only:
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Why do so very many apps require location access anyway?

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#34668

FromAL <noemail@none.invalid.com>
Date2016-09-23 12:35 -0700
Message-ID<ns406j$tmj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34661
On 9/23/2016 9:45 AM, Horace Algiers wrote:
> Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

Yes.

> why does the basic *clock* need location access?

Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)

> I don't see why a WiFi Analyzer needs location access,

Mine doesn't. (WiFi Analyzer version 3.9.10-L)

> My "experiment" is to see if anything bad happens.
> So far, after two days, nothing bad has happened yet.

If an app wants 'location' it asks me to change the settings.

> So my question is only:
> Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

That was your first question in this post.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34670

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es>
Date2016-09-23 23:47 +0200
Message-ID<ahkgbd-9vk.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#34668
On 2016-09-23 21:35, AL wrote:
> On 9/23/2016 9:45 AM, Horace Algiers wrote:
>> Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> why does the basic *clock* need location access?
> 
> Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)

To change to the local time of the location you are at.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34682

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 00:04 +0000
Message-ID<ns4fun$1200$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34670
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:47:54 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>> Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
>> Yes.
>>> why does the basic *clock* need location access?
>> Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)
> To change to the local time of the location you are at.

While a clock app *might* need to know the GPS location in order to figure
out what time zone it's in, "my" clock is doing fine without having access
to the GPS location.

Of course, I haven't changed time zones in the past two days, but, there
*is* a "Date and time" setting in Android 4.3:
XXXXX

Notice that I have set:
[x] Automatic date and time (Use network-provided time)
[x] Automatic time zone (Use network-provided time zone)

So, um, er ... can't the clock get the time and time zone from the
so-called "network-provided" time and time zone?

If the clock is not getting the time and time zone from the network, how
does it get the *time* merely from the GPS location? [It can't.]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34685

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 00:10 +0000
Message-ID<ns4g9p$129u$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34682
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 00:04:40 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers wrote:

> Of course, I haven't changed time zones in the past two days, but, there
> *is* a "Date and time" setting in Android 4.3:
> XXXXX
> 
> Notice that I have set:
> [x] Automatic date and time (Use network-provided time)
> [x] Automatic time zone (Use network-provided time zone)
> 
> So, um, er ... can't the clock get the time and time zone from the
> so-called "network-provided" time and time zone?
> 
> If the clock is not getting the time and time zone from the network, how
> does it get the *time* merely from the GPS location? [It can't.]

I forgot to include the screenshot:
http://i.cubeupload.com/PGzaHa.png

 Notice that I have set:
 [x] Automatic date and time (Use network-provided time)
 [x] Automatic time zone (Use network-provided time zone)

I don't know where the clock app gets its time and time zone from, but it
would seem to me it would just need to get it from the system clock and
system location, which can be provided by the carrier, it seems.

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#34692

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es>
Date2016-09-24 03:49 +0200
Message-ID<il2hbd-tov.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#34682
On 2016-09-24 02:04, Horace Algiers wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:47:54 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>>>> Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
>>> Yes.
>>>> why does the basic *clock* need location access?
>>> Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)
>> To change to the local time of the location you are at.
> 
> While a clock app *might* need to know the GPS location in order to figure
> out what time zone it's in, "my" clock is doing fine without having access
> to the GPS location.

It may do fine, but that doesn't mean that the designer of the clock
programmed it that way. As there are location services in the system,
and network time (notice: telephone network, not internet) is not always
accurate, if I were the programmer I would also ask the system for the
current location.


> So, um, er ... can't the clock get the time and time zone from the
> so-called "network-provided" time and time zone?

Yes, so what? That it can does not mean it does. As I said, if I were
programming for Android I would use anything I have available that I
like. I know that I'm not breaking any privacy, so do it.

Telephone network time is known to be problematic, anyway.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34683

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 00:04 +0000
Message-ID<ns4fup$1200$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34668
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:35:54 -0700, AL wrote:

>> Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
> 
> Yes.

Thanks for honestly answering the question.

I'm on Android 4.3 which allows App Ops Starter to control permissions.
I think App Ops Starter doesn't work with 4.4 (from memory, so I could be
wrong), and that it's not needed in 5.0 and above.

Do you know if that's true?

> 
>> why does the basic *clock* need location access?
> 
> Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)

Thanks for letting me know that. 

The only reason an Android clock might need the location is for automatic
time-zone correction - but - doesn't the clock get the time from the
carrier signal?

My clock seems to be version 3.0 and it *does* seem to want the location.
http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png

So, why would we need Timezone correction if the carrier signal is
*already* corrected?

I guess we need to ask two questions to answer that:
1. How does Android get its time (in the notification bar)?
2. How does the clock app get its time?

Are these two methods the same or different?
 
>> I don't see why a WiFi Analyzer needs location access,
> 
> Mine doesn't. (WiFi Analyzer version 3.9.10-L)

Again, thanks for the input.
There is a pattern here.

My WiFi Analyzer does ask for permission, and it's version 3.9.
http://i.cubeupload.com/PKxm2Z.png

So your versions are all slightly newer than mine.
Maybe the app developers had an epiphany between your OS and mine?

>> My "experiment" is to see if anything bad happens.
>> So far, after two days, nothing bad has happened yet.
> 
> If an app wants 'location' it asks me to change the settings.

Thanks for that input. In my case, location is asked by the map apps, but
not necessarily by the clock app or ES File Explorer, or the WiFi Analyzer. 

I'm not sure what that tells me, but it makes sense that if an app truly
*needs* the location, that it should simply *ask* for the location access
at the time it needs it.

>> So my question is only:
>> Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
> 
> That was your first question in this post.

It seems you have a *different* Android OS than I do, and certainly your
apps are newer, so, that's probably the distinction.

It will be interesting to see how others fare on whether their basic apps
ask for location permission or not and whether people manually grant that
access or not.

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#34687

FromJeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Date2016-09-23 18:03 -0700
Message-ID<fgibubp7m50iifib8a9fe7lcbsn7vmja3c@4ax.com>
In reply to#34683
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 00:04:42 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers
<horace@horacealgiers.com> wrote:

>The only reason an Android clock might need the location is for automatic
>time-zone correction - but - doesn't the clock get the time from the
>carrier signal?
>
>My clock seems to be version 3.0 and it *does* seem to want the location.
>http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png
>
>So, why would we need Timezone correction if the carrier signal is
>*already* corrected?

Good question.  I tested that on a fair collection of old Android
smartphones.  The smartphone clock was set by cellular clock and not
by the GPS.  For example, if I put my current Moto G phone into
Airplane mode, but with the GPS on and running, the clock will drift
at an alarming rate.  The internal clock drift is really awful,
because it doesn't need to be accurate since it has the cellular clock
to keep it accurate.  

Next, I turned off the GPS and Cellular, but enabled Wi-Fi.  I
connected to my office router and waited for the expected clock
correction.  Nope.  No NTP (network time protocol) anywhere in sight.
That kinda makes sense because there's nowhere in the Android settings
to specify an NTP server.

Bottom line is that if you want an accurate clock, you need to leave
cellular turned on.

Incidentally, there's a bit of a problem between the GPS and UTC time
on some phones (in this case an old Droid X2):
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GPS-vs-UTC.jpg>
Nothing much is broken unless you're doing astronomy, navigation, or
surveying with your smartphone:
<http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm>
The problem was fixed on most smartphones long ago, but the problem
keeps reappearing on even new phones:
<http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-time-displayed-on-most-android-phones-is-wrong/>

>There is a pattern here.

Where there's a pattern, there must also be a conspiracy.

>It will be interesting to see how others fare on whether their basic apps
>ask for location permission or not and whether people manually grant that
>access or not.

"Everything every Android Developer must know about new Android's
Runtime Permission"
<https://inthecheesefactory.com/blog/things-you-need-to-know-about-android-m-permission-developer-edition/en>
<https://developer.android.com/training/permissions/index.html>

If you have rooted your Android device, and have adb installed, run:
   $ adb shell pm list permissions -d -g
for a list of apps showing the current permissions.  I don't have a
rooted device handy, so I can't post some typical output.

There are also apps for managing permissions:
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=permissions%20manager&c=apps&hl=en>


-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#34688

FromJeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Date2016-09-23 18:09 -0700
Message-ID<v8kbub5d5l511o3trtmhfet0i45bak6ufp@4ax.com>
In reply to#34687
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:03:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>No NTP (network time protocol) anywhere in sight.
>That kinda makes sense because there's nowhere in the Android settings
>to specify an NTP server.

I did some more digging and found that some Android runtimes have an
NTP server hard coded into the firmware.  Specifically the stock
version has  2.android.pool.ntp.org  buried in the binary.  See line
820 in:
<https://android.googlesource.com/platform/frameworks/base/+/40caf8f4432acd2b9d9230b2b1371660521415c2/core/res/res/values/config.xml#802>
The OEM versions might use other servers.  There's also some question
as to whether any of these Android phones actually use a hard coded
NTP server.  I suspect not.

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34690

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 01:23 +0000
Message-ID<ns4kj9$16cs$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34687
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:03:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>   I tested that on a fair collection of old Android
> smartphones.  The smartphone clock was set by cellular clock and not
> by the GPS.

Thanks Jeff.
What I love about *your* responses is that you *back up* what you say.

So, you can be *believed* because you have credibility.

I believe you when you say that the Android clock gets its time zone and
time from the carrier signal.

And, the fact you *tested* that (on WiFi) is great proof of that.
And, that GPS doesn't help the clock drift (I can't see how it would since
the admittedly extremely accurate atomic clock *in* the satellite isn't
sending *that* signal to the phone, is it?).

> Bottom line is that if you want an accurate clock, 
> you need to leave cellular turned on.

That confirms what I had thought.
So, in effect, the clock (and all those other apps) don't *need* location
access.

So why do they bother to force users (who don't know any better) to allow
location access when the clock (system) app is first installed by the
manufacturer?

What *advantage* is it to the clock app, or to the system manufacturer (who
installed the clock app in the first place) to *require* location access?

Makes no sense to me.
Does it make sense to you?

What do they gain?
What can they do with it in a clock app?

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#34693

FromJeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Date2016-09-23 18:58 -0700
Message-ID<rfmbubh1jfm6sviieepk5h4jsss20djcja@4ax.com>
In reply to#34690
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 01:23:53 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers
<horace@horacealgiers.com> wrote:

>So why do they bother to force users (who don't know any better) to allow
>location access when the clock (system) app is first installed by the
>manufacturer?

Demographic information (where your customers are located) is very
important for marketing a product, even as small as a smartphone app.
It's also useful for targeting ad campaigns by location.  Location
information is also valuable to marketing research firms, that pay
well for such data.

>What *advantage* is it to the clock app, or to the system manufacturer (who
>installed the clock app in the first place) to *require* location access?

Perhaps they want to send a GPS guided missile to your last known
location and exterminate you and the neighborhood for failing to meet
their financial expectations?

>What do they gain?

Information is power (and money).  
More information is more power (and money).

>What can they do with it in a clock app?

I think it was originally the various free flashlight apps that were
just crammed with data sucking features that would collect data on
almost everything they could find on your phone.  A 20 MByte
flashlight app is almost certain to be doing something evil behind the
curtains.  So, why did they bother?  Because the information was
valuable.  

The one I liked best was the flashlight app that groveled through the
users pictures and videos skimming for the EXIF data, which included
the GPS lat-long when the photo was taken.  That's a fairly good
history of where you've been (and when you were there).  Anyway,
pretend that you're evil and devious (like me).  Think of what you can
deduce from the metadata (everything except the actually file) on your
smartphone.

Fun and Games:  Click on some of the sample photos:
<http://www.pic2map.com>
I just uploaded a dumb photo and was presented with my location when
the photo was taken.  Nice.


Topic drift:  This should pin your paranoia meter to full scale:
"Lenovo, Intel, and PayPal Team On Fingerprinting Tech For Online
Payments"
<http://fortune.com/2016/09/23/lenovo-intel-paypal-fingerprint-biometrics/>


-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34695

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-09-23 22:02 -0400
Message-ID<230920162202102271%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#34693
In article <rfmbubh1jfm6sviieepk5h4jsss20djcja@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Topic drift:  This should pin your paranoia meter to full scale:
> "Lenovo, Intel, and PayPal Team On Fingerprinting Tech For Online
> Payments"
> <http://fortune.com/2016/09/23/lenovo-intel-paypal-fingerprint-biometrics/>

it already does with apple pay and android pay.

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#34698

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 02:41 +0000
Message-ID<ns4p5c$1b18$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34693
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:58:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>>So why do they bother to force users (who don't know any better) to allow
>>location access when the clock (system) app is first installed by the
>>manufacturer?
> 
> Demographic information (where your customers are located) is very
> important for marketing a product, even as small as a smartphone app.
> It's also useful for targeting ad campaigns by location.  Location
> information is also valuable to marketing research firms, that pay
> well for such data.

I agree with you Jeff, that knowing *where* you are when you run the clock
app (and the other apps that I mentioned, such as ES File Explorer) is
useful to *them*; but location has nothing to do with *most* of the apps
that I have that require it.

That's why I asked if YOU (plural you) turn off location access in all the
apps that don't need it (which is the vast majority of the ones that
require it, IMHO).

>>What *advantage* is it to the clock app, or to the system manufacturer (who
>>installed the clock app in the first place) to *require* location access?
> 
> Perhaps they want to send a GPS guided missile to your last known
> location and exterminate you and the neighborhood for failing to meet
> their financial expectations?
>
That would be bad news for the Santa Cruz mountains!
Maybe I can spoof *your* location instead.
You're only a dozen miles distant over the hill!
:)
 
> The one I liked best was the flashlight app that groveled through the
> users pictures and videos skimming for the EXIF data, which included
> the GPS lat-long when the photo was taken. 

Yup. But that's why I asked if everyone else turns *off* the location
access of their apps that don't need it!

> Fun and Games:  Click on some of the sample photos:
> <http://www.pic2map.com>
> I just uploaded a dumb photo and was presented with my location when
> the photo was taken.  Nice.

Heh heh ... I use Exifer and other proggies on Linux but that site is
useful for all the chest-and-baby photos I get from Anthony Wiener when I
pose as a 15 year old girl. :)

> Topic drift:  This should pin your paranoia meter to full scale:
> "Lenovo, Intel, and PayPal Team On Fingerprinting Tech For Online
> Payments"
> <http://fortune.com/2016/09/23/lenovo-intel-paypal-fingerprint-biometrics/>

Yikes. My old single-USB-port WinXP laptop may have to be retired some day,
so that I can get fingerprinted while I type my next Usenet post!

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#34691

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 01:42 +0000
Message-ID<ns4lla$17bq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34687
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:03:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> There are also apps for managing permissions:
> <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=permissions%20manager&c=apps&hl=en>

That list brings up something that always confused me about App Ops Starter
(com.schurich.android.tools.appopsstarter) reports on "course location,
fine location" as can be seen in "Email" and "Firefox" on the screenshot
below:
http://i.cubeupload.com/di3NN6.png

When I look at Firefox', it has a *switch* to turn off access location:
http://i.cubeupload.com/2uW611.png

But, when I look at Email, it does *not* have that switch:
http://i.cubeupload.com/GhyJRj.png

Can someone explain:
a. Why do both Email & Firefox say "fine location, course location" but
only Firefox can be turned off with App Ops Starter?

b. What is the *difference* between "fine location" and "course location"
anyway (with respect to location-access permissions)?

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#34696

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es>
Date2016-09-24 04:00 +0200
Message-ID<ib3hbd-jc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#34691
On 2016-09-24 03:42, Horace Algiers wrote:

> b. What is the *difference* between "fine location" and "course location"
> anyway (with respect to location-access permissions)?

Spelling error? Ie, coarse location?

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34697

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 02:41 +0000
Message-ID<ns4p5a$1b18$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34696
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 04:00:50 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> b. What is the *difference* between "fine location" and "course location"
>> anyway (with respect to location-access permissions)?
> 
> Spelling error? Ie, coarse location?

Oooooops. Mea culpa. That's a good catch, especially since "course
location" could mean something in and of itself.

App Ops Starter lists it as: "coArse location, fine location".

So, the confusing set of observations are:
a. Some apps list just "coarse location"
b. Some apps list just "fine location"
   http://i.cubeupload.com/ToXq7e.png
c. Others list both "coarse location, fine location"
   http://i.cubeupload.com/8VRmbV.png
d. Yet others list "GPS, coarse location, fine location".
   http://i.cubeupload.com/3IqPj1.png

What's the difference between:
A. GPS
B. Coarse location
C. Fine location

Also, why is there a button only for "Location", and, why, sometimes, is
there no button for location even when it asks for any of the above?
SWITCH: http://i.cubeupload.com/07HtCo.png
NOSWITCH: http://i.cubeupload.com/YWzeh7.png

Even worse, some also list in the "location" field:
D. wifi scan
E. cell scan
http://i.cubeupload.com/3IqPj1.png

Does any of this make sense to you (plural you)?

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#34699

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es>
Date2016-09-24 04:57 +0200
Message-ID<tl6hbd-eu2.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#34697
On 2016-09-24 04:41, Horace Algiers wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 04:00:50 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:


> What's the difference between:
> A. GPS
> B. Coarse location
> C. Fine location

I don't know the precise or official definition, but I can give you an
educated guess.

GPS uses only the GPS receiver.

Coarse uses only the GSM network and WiFi/IP guessing by google. Ie,
Cell, GeoIP and Wifi location. The error can be kilometres, thus coarse
location. Sometimes it is surprisingly precise. Also called "low battery
mode" or something similar. It is the one I use.

Fine location uses both methods. I guess that by having a coarse
location first, and by knowing the timetable of the satellite passes, it
decides what satellites to search for, instead of trying all of them.


>
> Also, why is there a button only for "Location",

LOL. So that you choose always the preferred method, "fine location".

> and, why, sometimes, is
> there no button for location even when it asks for any of the above?

Designer choice. What a question!


> Even worse, some also list in the "location" field:
> D. wifi scan
> E. cell scan
> http://i.cubeupload.com/3IqPj1.png

Well, it is just an accurate description of what it does. Wifi and Cell
is what together do "coarse location". Again, designer choice to list
them all instead of the switch name.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#34722

FromHorace Algiers <horace@horacealgiers.com>
Date2016-09-24 15:24 +0000
Message-ID<ns65qi$19ju$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34699
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 04:57:32 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Fine location uses both methods. I guess that by having a coarse
> location first, and by knowing the timetable of the satellite passes, it
> decides what satellites to search for, instead of trying all of them.

It's still confusing, but I think that's because the app I was using only 
said "fine" and "coarse" location, but didn't explain the difference:
http://i.cubeupload.com/9Q3VcK.png

I installed the apps which Jeff had suggested, which gave more information:
http://i.cubeupload.com/E0kxDx.png

Each of the apps suggested by Jeff listed apps by location access type, 
although each app uses different words to convey the two types, for 
example, "precise" versus "approximate":
http://i.cubeupload.com/bxPBw3.png

Namely:
Precise: http://i.cubeupload.com/7Yvp0r.png
Approximate: http://i.cubeupload.com/aE4jZo.png

One of the apps Jeff suggested has a paragraph explanation.

App Permission Watcher by Eric Struse
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.struse.apewatch

Here is what it says (verbatim) for "precise location":
http://i.cubeupload.com/cZbZf1.png

 *precise location (GPS and network-based)*
"Allows apps to access your approximate location using *GPS or* location 
services based on network sources, such as mobile phone towers and Wi-Fi 
APs. When these location services are available and enabled, this 
permission allows apps to determine your approximate location. 
*This may consume more battery power.*"

Here is what it says (verbatim) for "approximate location":
http://i.cubeupload.com/xavuBD.png
 "approximate location (network-based)"
 "Allows apps to access your approximate location using [s]GPS or[/s] 
location services based on network sources, such as mobile phone towers and 
Wi-Fi APs. When these location services are available and enabled, this 
permission allows apps to determine your approximate location. [s]This may 
consume more battery power.[/s]"

We can presume "precise" means "fine" and that "approximate" means 
"coarse".

So, the only difference between those two descriptions is:
a. precise/fine location = GPS, towers, APs (where GPS consumes battery)
b. approximate/coarse location = towers, APs

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#34783

FromJeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Date2016-09-25 11:38 -0700
Message-ID<ul5gub1fq7j28oauup9trgoopv0qdg6tu9@4ax.com>
In reply to#34722
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:24:02 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers
<horace@horacealgiers.com> wrote:

>It's still confusing, but I think that's because the app I was using only 
>said "fine" and "coarse" location, but didn't explain the difference:

Maybe this will help:
<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6775257/android-location-providers-gps-or-network-provider>

My guess(tm) is:
  wifi only = Wild guess based on various inaccurate databases,
              geodata, IP location, etc.
  coarse = GPS only.
  fine = AGPS (assisted GPS) using location data from cell site.

There's also the Fused Location Provider:
<http://blog.lemberg.co.uk/fused-location-provider>
<https://commonsware.com/Android/previews/the-fused-location-provider>
  "...will blend data from GPS, cell tower triangulation, and 
  WiFi hotspot proximity to determine the device’s location, 
  without your having to manually set all of that up."

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#34786

FromAndy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date2016-09-25 20:13 +0100
Message-ID<e4qluqF53cdU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#34783
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> My guess(tm) is:
>   wifi only = Wild guess based on various inaccurate databases,
>               geodata, IP location, etc.
>   coarse = GPS only.
>   fine = AGPS (assisted GPS) using location data from cell site.

I don't think AGPS is any better resolution than GPS, merely that it can 
get a fix quicker if the almanac is out of date by fetching it as data 
rather than waiting for it as satellite broadcast, or you've travelled a 
considerable distance with GPS disabled.

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