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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #33307 > unrolled thread

Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files

Started byAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
First post2016-08-12 15:40 +0000
Last post2016-08-17 17:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 90 — 12 participants

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  Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-12 15:40 +0000
    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-12 16:29 +0000
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-12 18:18 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-08-12 22:36 -0400
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-12 10:10 -0700
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-12 18:18 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-12 15:52 -0700
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 02:16 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-14 16:28 +0000
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 01:23 +0000
        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 06:21 -0600
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-14 08:47 -0700
            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 22:45 +0000
              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-14 20:24 -0700
          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-14 22:45 +0000
            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-14 18:59 -0400
              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-15 02:06 +0000
                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 06:43 -0600
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 11:52 +0000
                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-17 05:48 -0600
                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 17:12 +0000
                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-17 13:28 -0400
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-17 19:05 +0000
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 19:33 +0000
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 10:14 -0600
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 19:33 +0000
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 10:05 -0600
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 13:12 -0400
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 14:26 -0600
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 16:51 -0400
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 20:00 -0600
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 22:48 -0400
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-09 02:33 -0400
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-09 02:36 -0400
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 09:06 +0200
                                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files John B. <slocombjbEDIT@gmail.xyz> - 2016-09-09 16:28 +0700
                                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 11:50 +0200
                        Fing (was: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files) I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-17 18:43 +0000
                          Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 19:33 +0000
                            Re: Fing Nigel Wade <nmw@local.domain> - 2016-08-18 09:41 +0100
                              Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-18 18:43 +0000
                                Re: Fing tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-08-18 18:44 -0400
                              Re: Fing Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-08-19 07:00 +0100
                                Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:22 +0000
                          Re: Fing Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-18 18:43 +0000
                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-17 16:15 -0700
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 05:32 +0000
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-18 23:01 -0700
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 13:55 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Nigel Wade <nmw@local.domain> - 2016-08-19 15:08 +0100
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-19 08:11 -0700
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 13:11 -0400
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 21:37 -0400
                                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 04:24 +0000
                                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-20 00:26 -0400
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-19 14:57 -0700
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
                                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-20 00:05 -0700
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 10:37 -0400
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 13:11 -0400
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 21:37 -0400
                                      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-20 04:45 +0000
                        Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 10:03 -0600
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-18 10:03 -0700
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-08-18 18:39 -0400
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 20:05 -0600
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 22:48 -0400
                          Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-19 19:12 +0000
                            Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 15:25 -0400
                              Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-20 14:00 +0000
                                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files AL <noemail@none.com> - 2016-08-20 09:45 -0700
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-08-20 18:42 +0000
                                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> - 2016-09-11 02:35 -0400
                                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-11 02:44 -0400
                Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-15 11:46 -0400
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 05:59 +0000
                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-16 07:12 -0400
                    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com> - 2016-08-16 05:32 -0600
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 06:00 +0000
                  Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-16 11:54 +0000
    Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files pamela <invalid@nospam.com> - 2016-08-16 21:09 +0100
      Re: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-08-17 17:59 +0000

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#33485 — Fing (was: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files)

FromI R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid>
Date2016-08-17 18:43 +0000
SubjectFing (was: Warning about ES File Explorer Cleaner blowing away APK files)
Message-ID<slrnnr9c1k.tv8.n0b0dy@invalid.invalid>
In reply to#33479
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:12:14 +0000 (UTC),
Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>, in
<np25sq$1s2o$3@gioia.aioe.org> wrote:

>  I'm on Linux too.
>  The *one* app on Android/iOS that is *better* than the same functionality
>  on Linux, by far, is "Fing".
> 
>  Linux, amazingly, doesn't have the capability to *accurately* tell you all
>  the devices that are connected to the router. I know that sounds
>  impossible, but I've been through it on alt.os.linux and it's true.
> 
>  It's amazing. But a simple free app can tell you more accurately what's
>  connected to your network than can a Linux box with root access.

How about this: https://www.fingbox.com/download#

Problem solved. Yer welcome.

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

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#33490 — Re: Fing

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-17 19:33 +0000
SubjectRe: Fing
Message-ID<np2e5r$8nk$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33485
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:43:00 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

>>  I'm on Linux too.
>>  The *one* app on Android/iOS that is *better* than the same functionality
>>  on Linux, by far, is "Fing".
>> 
>>  Linux, amazingly, doesn't have the capability to *accurately* tell you all
>>  the devices that are connected to the router. I know that sounds
>>  impossible, but I've been through it on alt.os.linux and it's true.
>> 
>>  It's amazing. But a simple free app can tell you more accurately what's
>>  connected to your network than can a Linux box with root access.
> 
> How about this: https://www.fingbox.com/download#
> 
> Problem solved. Yer welcome

Thanks.

We discussed this in gory detail on alt.os.linux from February 21st to
March 6th of this year. (You'll recognize my screenshots.)

http://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux

Specifically:
How to list all devices on the Windows or Linux home network.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.os.linux/fing|sort:relevance/alt.os.linux/EIcNPurXefg/YWpMcPbuAwAJ


PS: My friends tell me I'm half of the traffic on the Internet alone. :)

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#33507 — Re: Fing

FromNigel Wade <nmw@local.domain>
Date2016-08-18 09:41 +0100
SubjectRe: Fing
Message-ID<e1lalsFragrU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#33490
On 17/08/16 20:33, Aardvarks wrote:
> PS: My friends tell me I'm half of the traffic on the Internet alone.:)

Half the noise, zero traffic.

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#33521 — Re: Fing

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-18 18:43 +0000
SubjectRe: Fing
Message-ID<np4vla$1i0k$5@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33507
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:41:32 +0100, Nigel Wade wrote:

> Half the noise, zero traffic.

You're a moron. 

1. I R A Darth Aggie was adding value.
2. My response added value.
3. Yours? What value did *you* add?

Think about that before responding.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33528 — Re: Fing

Fromtlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>
Date2016-08-18 18:44 -0400
SubjectRe: Fing
Message-ID<1jtur729kqltu$.gjr8h0c3r2jz$.dlg@40tude.net>
In reply to#33521
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:43:55 +0000 (UTC), Aardvarks wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:41:32 +0100, Nigel Wade wrote:
> 
>> Half the noise, zero traffic.
> 
> ... What value did *you* add?

Gave me a good, solid chuckle :-) ! In today's world, that's *real* value.
(Thanks, Nigel!) Cheers, -- tlvp
-- 
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33536 — Re: Fing

FromBob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com>
Date2016-08-19 07:00 +0100
SubjectRe: Fing
Message-ID<e1nlkqFdmsgU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#33507
in 33709 20160818 094132 Nigel Wade <nmw@local.domain> wrote:
>On 17/08/16 20:33, Aardvarks wrote:
>> PS: My friends tell me I'm half of the traffic on the Internet alone.:)
>
>Half the noise, zero traffic.

+1

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#33549 — Re: Fing

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-19 16:22 +0000
SubjectRe: Fing
Message-ID<np7bn9$13nb$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33536
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:00:58 BST, Bob Martin wrote:

> +1

How much value do you think you just added to this group's technical
knowledge, Bob?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33524 — Re: Fing

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-18 18:43 +0000
SubjectRe: Fing
Message-ID<np4vle$1i0k$7@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33485
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:43:00 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

>>  It's amazing. But a simple free app can tell you more accurately what's
>>  connected to your network than can a Linux box with root access.
> 
> How about this: https://www.fingbox.com/download#


It was a while ago, but I'll have to go to the Linux archives:
http://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux

Searching for "Fing" came up with this recent thread of mine:
- Subject: How to list all devices on the Windows or Linux home network
- Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 to March 4, 2016
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.os.linux/fing$20|sort:relevance/alt.os.linux/EIcNPurXefg/YWpMcPbuAwAJ

There is a long discussion of all the native Linux tools, none of which
worked as well as Fing did on a mobile device to find out what devices were
hooked to the home network.

Then on February 21st, the Linux Fing was suggested, which was installed,
and after a while, it worked on Linux.

But still, without Fing, running as root on Linux, there wasn't a single
Linux program that *accurately* reported the devices connected to the
network.

Meanwhile, on Android and iOS, an unrooted Fing worked just fine.
Fancy that!

Unfortunately, as noted in my thread, Fing is closed source.

> Problem solved. Yer welcome.

Thanks. But you'll notice my screenshots in that thread shows that I knew
Fing was on Linux as a separate installation which is *not* in any app
archives (yum or apt-get). 

So I'm ahead of you - but I do appreciate the help because you don't know
all my thousands of nyms (my friends say I'm half the Internet alone). 

But you'll recognize my screenshots in that thread...
https://i.imgur.com/XsnyHJx.gif

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33500

FromAL <noemail@none.com>
Date2016-08-17 16:15 -0700
Message-ID<Ge6tz.29868$dk1.8781@fx41.iad>
In reply to#33479
Aardvarks wrote:

> Linux, amazingly, doesn't have the capability to *accurately* tell you all
> the devices that are connected to the router.

I suppose it depends on the router. I can get that info from 
mine in any browser using any OS.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33535

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-19 05:32 +0000
Message-ID<np65m7$10v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33500
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:15:57 -0700, AL wrote:

>> Linux, amazingly, doesn't have the capability to *accurately* tell you all
>> the devices that are connected to the router.
> 
> I suppose it depends on the router. I can get that info from 
> mine in any browser using any OS.

The router *does* tell you accurately what is connected.
So does Fing.
But *nothing* else on Linux does.

Which is odd. 
But it is a fact.

We covered it in gory detail on alt.os.linux.
Here's a summary from another thread.


It was a while ago, but I'll have to go to the Linux archives:
http://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux

Searching for "Fing" came up with this recent thread of mine:
- Subject: How to list all devices on the Windows or Linux home network
- Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 to March 4, 2016
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.os.linux/fing$20|sort:relevance/alt.os.linux/EIcNPurXefg/YWpMcPbuAwAJ

There is a long discussion of all the native Linux tools, none of which
worked as well as Fing did on a mobile device to find out what devices were
hooked to the home network.

Then on February 21st, the Linux Fing was suggested, which was installed,
and after a while, it worked on Linux.

But still, without Fing, running as root on Linux, there wasn't a single
Linux program that *accurately* reported the devices connected to the
network.

Meanwhile, on Android and iOS, an unrooted Fing worked just fine.
Fancy that!

Unfortunately, as noted in my thread, Fing is closed source.

> Problem solved. Yer welcome.

Thanks. But you'll notice my screenshots in that thread shows that I knew
Fing was on Linux as a separate installation which is *not* in any app
archives (yum or apt-get). 

So I'm ahead of you - but I do appreciate the help because you don't know
all my thousands of nyms (my friends say I'm half the Internet alone). 

But you'll recognize my screenshots in that thread...
https://i.imgur.com/XsnyHJx.gif

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33537

FromAL <noemail@none.com>
Date2016-08-18 23:01 -0700
Message-ID<almarsoft.6192754466750214081@news.forteinc.com>
In reply to#33535
Aardvarks wrote:
>AL wrote:

> >> Linux, amazingly, doesn't have the capability to *accurately* 
tell you all
> >> the devices that are connected to the router.

> > I suppose it depends on the router. I can get that info from 
> > mine in any browser using any OS.

> The router *does* tell you accurately what is connected.

> So does Fing.

> But *nothing* else on Linux does.

(Not to repeat myself but)
A browser does. So why complicate things?

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#33541

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-19 13:55 +0000
Message-ID<np733t$ghk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33537
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:01:06 -0700, AL wrote:

> (Not to repeat myself but)
> A browser does. So why complicate things?

That's a good question.

When I fix a car, I find out there are always two kinds of people.
a. Those who just want it done.
b. Those who want to understand.

When I fix an abs control module, I find there are both kinds of people.
When I fix a network problem, I find there are both kinds of people.
When I put up a WISP antenna, I find there are both kinds of people.
etc.

There will always be two kinds of people:
a. Those who don't care (who will never learn)
b. Those who do care (who spend the time in the details)

If all you wanted was to "just get it done", you'd do it any way you could
and you'd get the heck out of there the moment you found your information
(and you'd probably forget anything you learned in the process).

If you just wanted to get it done, but you didn't have the router admin
login, then you'd just give up. There is nothing wrong with just giving up,
as that's what most people do all day every day. They learn nothing. They
don't care. That's fine.

If you wanted to get it done but the router was somewhat secure in that it
disallowed web or remote logins, then, again, you'd just give up, at least
if all you had was a phone that doesn't have an ethernet cable.

If you didn't have an ethernet cable, or if you couldn't access the router
physically to reboot it, etc., then in all these cases, you'd just give up
and move on with your life. 

But you wouldn't get the job done in those cases because your tool supply
is limited.

That's fine - if you don't care to actually get the job done.
But if you do care to get the job done - then you need a less limited
repertoire.

With that in mind, I explored the Linux options, to find out that no tool
on Linux that is in the normal repositories is accurate for telling the
user what is on the network. 

It's just something linux aficionados know (and can take advantage of),
while non-linux aficionados don't know it and just give up under all but
the easiest circumstances. 

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#33543

FromNigel Wade <nmw@local.domain>
Date2016-08-19 15:08 +0100
Message-ID<e1oi72FknfqU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#33541
On 19/08/16 14:55, Aardvarks wrote:

> There will always be two kinds of people:
> a. Those who don't care (who will never learn)
> b. Those who do care (who spend the time in the details)
>
> If all you wanted was to "just get it done", you'd do it any way you could
> and you'd get the heck out of there the moment you found your information
> (and you'd probably forget anything you learned in the process).
>
> If you just wanted to get it done, but you didn't have the router admin
> login, then you'd just give up. There is nothing wrong with just giving up,
> as that's what most people do all day every day. They learn nothing. They
> don't care. That's fine.

...

> With that in mind, I explored the Linux options, to find out that no tool
> on Linux that is in the normal repositories is accurate for telling the
> user what is on the network.

and at that point you landed yourself squarely in camp "a".

Rather than learn how to actually do it for yourself you just wanted to get the job done, or more correctly you wanted someone else to have already done the job for you.

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#33552

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
Message-ID<np7dr2$1758$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33543
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:08:34 +0100, Nigel Wade wrote:

> and at that point you landed yourself squarely in camp "a".
> 
> Rather than learn how to actually do it for yourself 
> you just wanted to get the job done, or more correctly 
> you wanted someone else to have already done the job 
> for you.

Thanks for that observation.

Fundamentally, we agree that there are two kinds of people (and that's OK
that they both exist):

1. There are those who try to just get the job done the easiest way
possible (they are the ones who throw parts at repairs, for example); and,
these same people are always the ones who give up first (because, by their
very nature, they have an extremely limited repertoire of possible
solutions).

2. There are those who try to understand all the various solutions for
getting the job done. These are the ones who almost never give up, until
and unless they find at least one solution - and - far more often than not
- these are the people who explore *multiple* solutions. These people
rarely give up - as they rarely fail - simply because their repertoire is
not limited to a single set of solutions.

To that end, those who want to figure out what is on their network can make
use of the native tools on Linux, which will *not* provide an *accurate*
list of devices on the network. 

This inaccuracy in native linux tools to figure out what's on the network
may not matter (to a typical home user) - or - it may matter tremendously
(to someone surveying for an intruder). 

I ran across this surprising happenstance, as I was surveying my own
network, seeking for ways to break into my own network - when I realized
*some* of my devices were not shown on *any* native Linux tool (there is an
entire week-long thread in alt.os.linux with all the details proving that
statement).

Those devices were *easily* shown with a survey using Fing on both Android
and iOS. 

At that time way back in February & March, I installed Fing on Linux, and
only then, with a non-native Linux tool, did Linux report what I already
knew to be the case.

So, I stuck with the problem until I had *multiple* solutions:
1. Fing on iOS & Android & Linux devices
2. Router queries

At some point, I stopped - which is natural as you have to stop somewhere,
so, as you noted, I didn't write my own scripts and compile my own code,
so, your point is valid that everyone stops somewhere.

a. The vast majority stop well before they solve the original problem
(most people give up the moment the going gets tough)

b. I stopped after I had at least 4 solutions to the original problem.

c. Some people go on to write their own solutions (but I'm not a coder, by
design, even though I've coded since well before Fortran 77 even existed),
so, writing my own code, as you noted, is not in the cards for me.

Had I not found the 4 solutions, I too would have just given up, which is
what the vast majority of people do all day, every day - the moment the
going gets slightly tough.

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#33548

FromAL <noemail@none.com>
Date2016-08-19 08:11 -0700
Message-ID<mkFtz.51873$mz2.44756@fx42.iad>
In reply to#33541
On 8/19/2016 6:55 AM, Aardvarks wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:01:06 -0700, AL wrote:
>
>> (Not to repeat myself but)
>> A browser does. So why complicate things?
>
> That's a good question.
>
> When I fix a car, I find out there are always two kinds of people.
> a. Those who just want it done.
> b. Those who want to understand.

So your analogy means:

The a. people who would use an existing browser or app.
The b. people who would code their own browser or app.

Guess we're both 'a' people. That has a nice sound to it, huh.

> If all you wanted was to "just get it done", you'd do it any way you could
> and you'd get the heck out of there the moment you found your information
> (and you'd probably forget anything you learned in the process).

I've never considered hunting for apps a big learning process. YMMV.

> If you just wanted to get it done, but you didn't have the router admin
> login, then you'd just give up.

Why wouldn't you have admin access to your own router?

> If you wanted to get it done but the router was somewhat secure in that it
> disallowed web or remote logins, then, again, you'd just give up

Every router allows owner access. Else how would you configure it?

> If you didn't have an ethernet cable, or if you couldn't access the router
> physically to reboot it, etc.,

Snigger. Really? This kind of thing happen a lot in your life?

> It's just something linux aficionados know (and can take advantage of),
> while non-linux aficionados don't know it and just give up under all but
> the easiest circumstances.

I have devices (toys?) in my home using 4 different OSs. I can easily 
access my router from any of them, no app hunting required.



[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33551

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-19 16:58 +0000
Message-ID<np7dr0$1758$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33548
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:11:15 -0700, AL wrote:

>> When I fix a car, I find out there are always two kinds of people.
>> a. Those who just want it done.
>> b. Those who want to understand.
> 
> So your analogy means:
> 
> The a. people who would use an existing browser or app.
> The b. people who would code their own browser or app.

No. But you bring up a good point.
That makes 3 types of people!

a. Those who give up the moment the native tools fail them.
b. Those who find multiple ways (e.g., I found 4) to solve the problem.
c. Those who write their own solution from scratch.

I admit, I am *not* in the third category, as I have written code since the
punch-card days, but I hate writing code and only do so under duress
(mostly shell scripts). I find writing code boring.

So, your point is that I too would have just given up had the *need* to
write the code been the *only* way to solve the problem.

a. Most people just give up almost instantly (it's their nature)
b. Some give up after finding multiple easy solutions (that's me)
c. Some, like Marek, write their own solutions (they're in another league).

Most people are NOT in that league well above me, which is the people who
write their own solutions from scratch.

Me? I find the solution. If it exists.
And I find *multiple* solutions - if they exist.

How?
1. I research what is already known.
2. I ask a lot of questions of those who know more than I do.
3. I collect all that data, and test all viable suggestions (& I report
back, having solved tens of thousands of such issues in a lifetime).

> Guess we're both 'a' people. That has a nice sound to it, huh.

I'm a 'b' person. 
I give up when multiple readily available solutions do not exist.

Whether you're in the majority "a" category or in the minority "b" category
(or in the elite "c" category) merely depends on how easily you give up.

> I've never considered hunting for apps a big learning process. YMMV.

This is Usenet, so it's a text-only conversation with people who don't know
each other - so - I'm not sure how you meant that statement.

If I take it at face value, and I remove cynicism, what you're saying is
that if you need to fix a noise problem in your WISP antenna, yet, you
don't immediately know of a noice analysis app, then you instantly give up,
and you effectively never fix your noise problem (because you never
identify the source of the noise).

Me? 

I ask the WISP experts - who instantly tell me that logging into my rooftop
radio transceiver (equivalent to logging into your cable or DLS modem, to
most of you) allows me to run a sophisticated noise analysis.

Bingo!
I run the test, and lo and behold, I find my neighbor's baby monitor
scattering noise all over the band that I was using.

So, what do I do?
I limit the bandwidth (cutting it in half) and I jump to a different
channel (getting as far away from the baby monitor as possible).

What do you do?
Since you never seek the app, you never figure out where the noise is
coming from. 

So what do you do to solve the problem?
1. You either give up.
2. Or you throw parts at the problem.

For example, you can change antennas to get better gain or you can change
frequencies from 2.4GHz to 5GHz or even 900 MHz, etc. (if you know a lot).

However, if you're the type that doesn't even seek an app, you're not
likely the type to buy these expensive solutions on a whim. So you'll only
throw parts at the problem if they're cheap, and, since they're not cheap,
you are most likely to just give up.


>> If you just wanted to get it done, but you didn't have the router admin
>> login, then you'd just give up.
> 
> Why wouldn't you have admin access to your own router?

Think about what I do.
I set up WISP antennas for all the neighbors.
Sometimes they're home when I'm there to troubleshoot.
Sometimes they're not (I go when/if I can to help out).

I use my phone as a diagnostic tool.
There is no ethernet connection on the phone.
And the router may or may not allow remote access.
And, even if it did, the neighbor may or may not remember their password.
(I can't count the number of times I have had to reset routers to factory
defaults just to log in.)

Again, your toolbox is apparently spartan.
1. Screwdrivers
2. Wrenches
3. Hammers

That's fine.
But "my" toolbox has all that, plus:
4. Digital Multimeters
5. Noise scanners
6. Network scanners
etc.

You're forced to give up more often than I am.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's just different.

>> If you wanted to get it done but the router was somewhat secure in that it
>> disallowed web or remote logins, then, again, you'd just give up
> 
> Every router allows owner access. Else how would you configure it?

See above. There are *many* times I've had to set an owner's router back to
factory defaults, just so that "we" could log in (they forget the
login/password and they almost always didn't set it up in the first place).

Plus, if you're outside, and the router is inside, you can't connect an
ethernet cable to the windows.

>> If you didn't have an ethernet cable, or if you couldn't access the router
>> physically to reboot it, etc.,
> 
> Snigger. Really? This kind of thing happen a lot in your life?

See above. Not a lot. Maybe once a month, at times, and then not for six
months, and then again a space of two in the same week, etc.

It's sporadic.

>> It's just something linux aficionados know (and can take advantage of),
>> while non-linux aficionados don't know it and just give up under all but
>> the easiest circumstances.
> 
> I have devices (toys?) in my home using 4 different OSs. I can easily 
> access my router from any of them, no app hunting required.

Tell me how you access your neighbor's routers (which is what I do all the
time)?

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#33554

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-19 13:11 -0400
Message-ID<190820161311273099%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33551
In article <np7dr0$1758$2@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> >> It's just something linux aficionados know (and can take advantage of),
> >> while non-linux aficionados don't know it and just give up under all but
> >> the easiest circumstances.
> > 
> > I have devices (toys?) in my home using 4 different OSs. I can easily 
> > access my router from any of them, no app hunting required.
> 
> Tell me how you access your neighbor's routers (which is what I do all the
> time)?

if they aren't aware of it, you've just admitted to committing a felony.

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#33565

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-20 01:21 +0000
Message-ID<np8bas$gsq$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33554
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:11:27 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> Tell me how you access your neighbor's routers (which is what I do all the
>> time)?
> 
> if they aren't aware of it, you've just admitted to committing a felony.

Since you operate on fear, you would say that.

You didn't read the whole post, but you should know by now that I set up
WISP all over my neighborhood as I've mentioned it in one way or another
more than a score of times I'm sure.

You think everyone who knows anything about networks is a crook.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#33567

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-19 21:37 -0400
Message-ID<190820162137023084%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#33565
In article <np8bas$gsq$3@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> >> Tell me how you access your neighbor's routers (which is what I do all the
> >> time)?
> > 
> > if they aren't aware of it, you've just admitted to committing a felony.
> 
> Since you operate on fear, you would say that.
> 
> You didn't read the whole post, but you should know by now that I set up
> WISP all over my neighborhood as I've mentioned it in one way or another
> more than a score of times I'm sure.
> 
> You think everyone who knows anything about networks is a crook.

no, i think that you are a crook.

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#33568

FromAardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date2016-08-20 04:24 +0000
Message-ID<np8m1m$rc1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33567
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:37:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

> no, i think that you are a crook.

I am a crook. 
I steal Usenet bandwidth from unsuspecting news servers.
I use free vpn services without paying for them.
I only run freeware software, again, without paying like you do.
I even read Google News (news.google.com) for free. 
When the Washington Post asks me to log in, I close the page.

ooops. And, I must confess. I lower the sound and when I watch a youtube
video, I hit the skip button the very first chance I can.

I am a crook!
http://www.thepubliceditor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Hillary_Nixon.jpg

PS: I'm using Aardvarks too long so it's time to switch nyms...

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