Groups > comp.mobile.android > #33030 > unrolled thread

Why would iOS be safer from spying than a well setup Android phone?

Started by	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
First post	2016-08-02 19:37 +0000
Last post	2016-08-08 05:49 +0200
Articles	20 on this page of 127 — 17 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.mobile.android

Page 6 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 Next page →

#33368

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-15 02:06 +0000
Message-ID	<nor82o$j0j$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33363

On 14 Aug 2016 23:32:16 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Projection - you routinely lie and insult people in the Apple news
> groups.

No I don't.
I just tell them the truth.

To them, the truth is insulting.
So be it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33349

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-14 22:23 +0000
Message-ID	<noqr1q$4i6$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33346

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 14:09:54 -0400, nospam wrote:

> what he doesn't get is that an ad id is just one of many ways someone
> can be tracked, so even if it really is removed, it doesn't actually do
> what he hopes to do.

This is one of the rare times you've said something half correct.

I certainly know there are *plenty* of tracking on *all* computer devices,
including on iOS. 

One by one, I try to understand them, where most that are on Android
devices are also on iOS devices. 

For example, the Harris Stingray will track an iPhone as well as an Android
phone, and browser fingerprinting works as well on Safari as it does on
other browsers, and advertisement exploits and canvas exploits work on all
devices, and mapping apps track you on all devices, etc.

In fact, if you notice the subject line of this thread, it's all about
*why* the iOS users seem to *feel* safer on iOS when they're actually no
safer (and in some key ways, far less safe) than Android users are.

It used to frustrate me how illogical iOS users are, but I finally figured
out that whatever the Apple Marketing Mommy tells them is how they *feel*,
and, to iOS users, that they *feel* safe, is all that matters.

That they're no less safe in actuality doesn't matter to them.

The only thing that matters to them is that Apple Marketing makes them
*feel* safer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33364

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2016-08-14 23:33 +0000
Message-ID	<e1cddjFo020U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#33349

On 2016-08-14, Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 14:09:54 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> what he doesn't get is that an ad id is just one of many ways someone
>> can be tracked, so even if it really is removed, it doesn't actually do
>> what he hopes to do.
>
> This is one of the rare times you've said something half correct.

He's been saying this for many posts, and you have rejected or ignored
it each time. So no, it's not rare at all. What is rare is that you are
now acknowledging it.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33367

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-15 02:06 +0000
Message-ID	<nor82m$j0j$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33364

On 14 Aug 2016 23:33:07 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> He's been saying this for many posts, and you have rejected or ignored
> it each time.

Um... it's the subject line.

So, um ... er.... it's only *you* who doesn't know this.

HINT: Next time, read the subject line before responding.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33350

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-14 22:23 +0000
Message-ID	<noqr1s$4i6$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33345

On 14 Aug 2016 17:56:58 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> All you have shown is that you can hide the ID from the
> user interface.  You haven't even bothered to verify that the ID isn't
> still stored within the device, nor that the ID isn't being transmitted
> over the network - you hid it and just gave up.

I killed the app that *creates* the apid.
And, I didn't install the account that manages the Apid.

The ApID is gone.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33356

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-14 22:29 +0000
Message-ID	<noqrbd$4rk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33350

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 22:23:57 +0000 (UTC), Aardvarks wrote:

> I killed the app that *creates* the apid.
> And, I didn't install the account that manages the Apid.
> 
> The ApID is gone.

AdID

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33365

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2016-08-14 23:37 +0000
Message-ID	<e1cdkuFo020U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#33350

On 2016-08-14, Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:
> On 14 Aug 2016 17:56:58 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> All you have shown is that you can hide the ID from the
>> user interface.  You haven't even bothered to verify that the ID isn't
>> still stored within the device, nor that the ID isn't being transmitted
>> over the network - you hid it and just gave up.
>
> I killed the app that *creates* the apid.

Nonsense. The advertising ID is created and stored by the Google Play
Services API which is part of the Android operating system itself, which
you have not removed. 

> The ApID is gone.

You haven't offered a single shred of prof of that claim.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33366

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-15 02:06 +0000
Message-ID	<nor82k$j0j$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33365

On 14 Aug 2016 23:37:03 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Nonsense. The advertising ID is created and stored by the Google Play
> Services API which is part of the Android operating system itself, which
> you have not removed.

It's gone.
I showed screenshots proving that.
You missed it.

It was in the first post.
Heh heh ... you probably skipped it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33373

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2016-08-15 05:17 +0000
Message-ID	<e1d1ieFs6hvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#33366

Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:
> On 14 Aug 2016 23:37:03 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
> 
>> Nonsense. The advertising ID is created and stored by the Google Play
>> Services API which is part of the Android operating system itself, which
>> you have not removed.
> 
> It's gone.
>
> I showed screenshots proving that.

Nope. All you have shown is that it is now hidden from the user interface.
You haven't bothered to check if it is still stored on the device. You also
haven't checked to see if it is being transmitted over the network.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33374

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-08-15 01:47 -0400
Message-ID	<150820160147507333%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#33373

In article <e1d1ieFs6hvU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> Nonsense. The advertising ID is created and stored by the Google Play
> >> Services API which is part of the Android operating system itself, which
> >> you have not removed.
> > 
> > It's gone.
> >
> > I showed screenshots proving that.
> 
> Nope. All you have shown is that it is now hidden from the user interface.
> You haven't bothered to check if it is still stored on the device. You also
> haven't checked to see if it is being transmitted over the network.

or what else is sent

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33389

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-16 00:17 +0000
Message-ID	<notm3g$1uiv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33374

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 01:47:50 -0400, nospam wrote:

> or what else is sent

The AdID is gone.

But, you do have a point in that many other "things" can be sent, whether
it's an iOS or an Android device.

There's no difference between the two platforms since it's easy to turn off
all the Google-Android-specific stuff (e.g., location services are trivial
to turn off, as is the collection of SSIDs by Google).

So the only thing that Google can get is stuff that's *also* on iOS, which
is the whole point of this thread.

For example, if someone is dumb enough to log into a Google account and
then use their Google Maps on their mobile device, then it serves them
right for being tracked (on either device).

The fact you can use Google Maps *without* logging in is what people should
be aware of (on both platforms). 

Same with youtube, whether you use it from a separate and special browser
(as I do, under VPN) or from the youtube app. Google tracks all your
youtubes, even if you're not logged in (where I would never log in on any
platform). 

So, the risk is exactly the same for Google tracking between iOS and
Android. Exactly.

The only difference is that stupid Android users are more affected; but any
Android user on this newsgroup should be smart enough to easily turn off
*all* the Android-specific Google tracking, as I did.

NOTE: Words are cheap and nospam is cheap so he will *say* that Google
still tracks but they can't because *all* their tracking is turned off that
is *specific* to Android. The tracking still exists that is on *both*
Android and iOS so even though iOS users *feel* safer (because that's what
Mommy Apple Marketing told them), they are just as safe as intelligent
Android users are.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33391

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2016-08-16 01:41 +0000
Message-ID	<e1f99vFe72tU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#33389

On 2016-08-16, Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 01:47:50 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> or what else is sent
>
> The AdID is gone.

Unfortunately for you, repeating a phrase over and over doesn't
magically make it true. Until you show a shred of proof, you are assumed
to be wrong. : )

[mindless troll rant omitted]

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33407

From	crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com>
Date	2016-08-16 05:39 -0600
Message-ID	<nouus6$3mn$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#33391

On 08/15/2016 07:41 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2016-08-16, Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 01:47:50 -0400, nospam wrote:
>>
>>> or what else is sent
>>
>> The AdID is gone.
>
> Unfortunately for you, repeating a phrase over and over doesn't
> magically make it true. Until you show a shred of proof, you are assumed
> to be wrong. : )
>
> [mindless troll rant omitted]
>

I wonder why we realize that here, but journalists and politicians and 
advertisers seem to have no inkling that repeating a phrase doesn't 
magically make it true... in fact some advertisers might have statistics 
to show that it does.  Go figure, eh?

-- 
http://totally-portable-software.blogspot.com
   [Sat Mar 26: "Documentation and Portability"]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33439

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-16 21:35 +0000
Message-ID	<np00vn$153n$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33391

On 16 Aug 2016 01:41:19 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Unfortunately for you, repeating a phrase over and over doesn't
> magically make it true. Until you show a shred of proof, you are assumed
> to be wrong. :

I love when you post because you give me the most insight into the mind of 
the typical iOS user.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33392

From	AL <noemail@none.com>
Date	2016-08-15 19:40 -0700
Message-ID	<B2vsz.46235$n83.20918@fx43.iad>
In reply to	#33389

Aardvarks wrote:

>if someone is dumb enough to log into a Google account and
> then use their Google Maps on their mobile device, then it serves them
> right for being tracked (on either device).

Just curious. What's wrong with Google knowing where I am?
Should I not also be paranoid of Verizon's cell service who 
also knows where I am? And GM (OnStar) who knows where my 
car and I are? And then there's Amex who follows me from 
place to place daily as I use my credit card. And Apple who 
knows where my wife is (Find my iPhone).

> The fact you can use Google Maps *without* logging in is what people should
> be aware of (on both platforms).

So the only thing logging out of my Google account would 
accomplish for me is no more email...  :-/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33408

From	crankypuss <undisclosedUserid@gmail.com>
Date	2016-08-16 05:49 -0600
Message-ID	<nouus6$3mn$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#33392

On 08/15/2016 08:40 PM, AL wrote:
> Aardvarks wrote:
>
>> if someone is dumb enough to log into a Google account and
>> then use their Google Maps on their mobile device, then it serves them
>> right for being tracked (on either device).
>
> Just curious. What's wrong with Google knowing where I am?
> Should I not also be paranoid of Verizon's cell service who also knows
> where I am? And GM (OnStar) who knows where my car and I are? And then
> there's Amex who follows me from place to place daily as I use my credit
> card. And Apple who knows where my wife is (Find my iPhone).
>
>> The fact you can use Google Maps *without* logging in is what people
>> should
>> be aware of (on both platforms).
>
> So the only thing logging out of my Google account would accomplish for
> me is no more email...  :-/
>

There have been times when I thought "no more email" would be a very 
good thing indeed. <g>

But I tend to agree.  I have my Apple devices set to report their 
last-known-location in case I happen to want that information.

I think anyone who is interested in following Mr Boring Nobody around by 
sniffing his electronic tracks deserves the accompanying descent into 
insanity of which such activity stands as evidence.

-- 
http://totally-portable-software.blogspot.com
   [Sat Mar 26: "Documentation and Portability"]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33413

From	AL <noemail@none.com>
Date	2016-08-16 08:46 -0700
Message-ID	<yzGsz.25051$dk1.17992@fx41.iad>
In reply to	#33408

crankypuss wrote:

> On 08/15/2016 08:40 PM, AL wrote:

>> Just curious. What's wrong with Google knowing where I am?
>> Should I not also be paranoid of Verizon's cell service
>> who also knows
>> where I am? And GM (OnStar) who knows where my car and I
>> are? And then
>> there's Amex who follows me from place to place daily as I
>> use my credit
>> card. And Apple who knows where my wife is (Find my iPhone).

> I think anyone who is interested in following Mr Boring
> Nobody around by sniffing his electronic tracks deserves the
> accompanying descent into insanity of which such activity
> stands as evidence.

If anyone at Google picks me out of their 200+ million 
accounts to read I suppose I should feel honored. Perhaps 
that would be the day to play the lottery.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33387

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-16 00:11 +0000
Message-ID	<notlnt$1u5m$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33373

On 15 Aug 2016 05:17:02 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Nope. All you have shown is that it is now hidden from the user interface.
> You haven't bothered to check if it is still stored on the device. You also
> haven't checked to see if it is being transmitted over the network.

You live in abject fear, so you just make this stuff up.

When the apple mommy tells the child in bed that the big hairy blue monster
can't get out of the closet when the lights are turned off if the closet
door is closed ... you believe it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33390

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2016-08-16 01:11 +0000
Message-ID	<e1f7isFdtuiU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#33387

Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:
> On 15 Aug 2016 05:17:02 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
> 
>> Nope. All you have shown is that it is now hidden from the user interface.
>> You haven't bothered to check if it is still stored on the device. You also
>> haven't checked to see if it is being transmitted over the network.
> 
> You live in abject fear, 

More insults showing you have nothing further of substance to add to the
conversation. Troll on.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#33440

From	Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com>
Date	2016-08-16 21:35 +0000
Message-ID	<np00vo$153n$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#33390

On 16 Aug 2016 01:11:57 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> More insults showing you have nothing further of substance to add to the
> conversation. Troll on.

Again, you entirely missed the point.
That's because I used metaphor.

Since your mind works only in direct simple concepts, I'll explain the 
metaphor.

Specifically:
a) The "blue monster" is a metaphor for your made-up fears.
b) The "mommy" is a metaphor for Apple Marketing.

All your made-up fears are allayed by Apple Marketing in your child-like 
mind.

Sheesh. I have to say things directly to you just for you to get the 
simplest of concepts. In a way, I love discussing technical concepts with 
you because you give me the most direct insight into the mind of the 
average iOS user.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 6 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 Next page →

csiph-web

Why would iOS be safer from spying than a well setup Android phone?

Contents

#33368

#33349

#33364

#33367

#33350

#33356

#33365

#33366

#33373

#33374

#33389

#33391

#33407

#33439

#33392

#33408

#33413

#33387

#33390

#33440