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Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus)

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  Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-26 20:13 -0700
    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-26 23:56 -0400
      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-29 21:16 +0000
        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 01:44 +0000
    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 03:56 +0000
      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 04:04 +0000
        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-27 08:09 -0700
          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-27 11:33 -0400
            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 16:12 +0000
              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-27 11:03 -0700
                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-27 14:19 -0400
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 19:24 +0000
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-27 13:24 -0700
                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-27 16:34 -0400
                        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 22:24 +0000
            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2018-08-27 22:03 +0100
              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-27 14:10 -0700
                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-27 14:27 -0700
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-27 17:53 -0400
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 22:24 +0000
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2018-08-27 17:33 -0500
                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 23:02 +0000
                        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-27 19:19 -0400
                          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-28 23:16 +0000
                        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2018-08-27 19:46 -0500
                          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-28 23:16 +0000
                            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) joe <none@domain.invalid> - 2018-08-28 18:56 -0500
                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 00:38 +0000
                            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-29 21:32 +0000
                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 22:11 +0000
                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) I R A Darth Aggie <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-03 16:13 +0000
                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-29 16:06 -0700
                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-29 23:06 -0400
                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 01:52 +0000
                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 02:02 +0000
                                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-29 23:06 -0400
                                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 04:41 +0000
                                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-30 00:55 -0400
                                        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 12:22 +0000
                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-27 19:19 -0400
                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2018-08-27 22:52 +0100
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-27 15:00 -0700
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 22:24 +0000
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-28 07:18 -0700
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-28 23:16 +0000
                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-28 20:34 -0700
                        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 12:56 +0000
                          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 13:30 +0000
                            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-29 08:29 -0700
                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-29 11:41 -0400
                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 16:04 +0000
                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 16:16 +0000
                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 16:05 +0000
                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-29 10:45 -0700
                                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-29 14:09 -0400
                                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2018-08-29 18:52 +0000
                                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 22:01 +0000
                                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 22:01 +0000
                                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 23:02 +0000
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-03 04:01 +0000
              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 12:49 +0000
                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-30 09:36 -0400
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-31 01:53 +0000
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-30 22:57 -0400
                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-31 12:45 +0000
          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 16:12 +0000
            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-27 10:52 -0700
              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-27 13:59 -0400
                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 22:08 +0000
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-29 15:13 -0700
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-29 22:58 +0000
                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-29 19:32 -0700
                        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 02:48 +0000
                          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-29 20:02 -0700
                            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 04:15 +0000
                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-29 21:26 -0700
                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 04:43 +0000
                                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-29 21:54 -0700
                                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 12:22 +0000
                                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-30 08:44 -0700
                                        Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) BK@Onramp.net - 2018-08-30 11:03 -0500
                                          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-30 09:09 -0700
                                            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) BK@Onramp.net - 2018-08-30 12:47 -0500
                                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-31 01:59 +0000
                                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-30 19:10 -0700
                                          Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-31 01:55 +0000
                                            Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-30 19:08 -0700
                                              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-31 02:46 +0000
                                                Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-08-30 20:11 -0700
                  Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-29 18:18 -0700
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 02:29 +0000
                    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-29 23:06 -0400
                      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-30 04:15 +0000
              Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net> - 2018-08-27 19:24 +0000
    Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> - 2018-08-27 08:51 -0400
      Re: Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus) sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2018-08-27 08:12 -0700

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#55165 — Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off). Closest Android Phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus)

Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off)

<https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875209541&cm_re=moto_x4-_-75-209-541-_-Product>

This phone is in high demand. Most places are selling it for $300 or 
$350 
<https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1357016-REG/motorola_pa8s0006us_moto_x_4th_gen.html> 
or 
<https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1357016-REG/motorola_pa8s0006us_moto_x_4th_gen.html>.

It's the closest Android phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus). There are very 
few quad-carrier Android phones that are not 5.5" or larger. Some people 
prefer a smaller screen phone, and only the really junky GSM-only phones 
are typically available in smaller screen sizes anymore.

Here is part of a spreadsheet I put together, these columns compare the 
iPhone 8 (non-plus) to the Moto X4, see 
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HI-ejgQF5-OfJdS7yj-YL_we-v1PiMG0_JM8nGAlN38>. 
Each has some areas where they are better. The X4 has a higher 
resolution screen, more RAM, a front flash, better cameras, Micro SD 
Card Slot, 3.5mm Headphone Jack, FM radio, USB OTG, Adobe Flash Support, 
and is IP68 rather than just IP67. However the CPU in the X4 is 
significantly slower than the one in the iPhone 8, and the iPhone 8 has 
a few more LTE bands, and has less ROM built-in.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#55166

In article <plvq97$uhl$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>  Adobe Flash Support, 

android hasn't supported flash in *years*.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#55240

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 23:56:15 -0400,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>, in
<260820182356158545%nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>  In article <plvq97$uhl$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> 
> >  Adobe Flash Support, 
> 
>  android hasn't supported flash in *years*.

My first thought: yuck.
My second thought: flash hasn't supported android in years.

Adobe Flash was and continues to be a festering security hole.

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#55254

On 29 Aug 2018 21:16:39 GMT, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

> My first thought: yuck.
> My second thought: flash hasn't supported android in years.
> 
> Adobe Flash was and continues to be a festering security hole.

This Android thread wasn't intended to be about Flash.
The Apple Apologists nospam made it so.

Still - let's be logical adults - and not emotional creatures.

If this thread is going to be derailed into a flash thread, we should at 
least strive to have the facts straight on flash, apart from the emotions.

As I recall, if you read the Google & Apple canonical explanations of why 
they dropped Flash support, the "festering security hole" was *not* on top 
of why they said they dropped flash.

Let's see what Apple & Google actually said before we proclaim our own 
reasons for hating flash.

Here is the Apple pronouncement signed by Steve Jobs in April of 2010:
 <https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/>
Which says the faults are, in this order:
1. Adobe┬ Flash products are 100% proprietary. 
2. The "full web" (meaning Flash market share)
3. An extremely short paragraph on reliability, security and performance.
4. Battery life
5. Touch
6. Apps (which Steve Jobs very clearly said is the *most important reason*)

Notice in a page of about 118 sentences, only a *single sentence mentioned 
reliability, with a summary sentence (a repeat) also mentioning 
reliability.

That's about 1% to 2% of the sentences in Steve Jobs' extremely well-vetted 
pronouncement that even mentions reliability and both sentences said the 
same thing.

Meanwhile, there were 116 sentences that were NOT about reliability.

These are facts.
While the Apple Apologists are all about childish emotion - I am only about 
facts.

Facts are things all logical sentient adults agree upon.
And that Steve Jobs letter is a fact.

All logical sentient adults can read the Steve Jobs letter just as well as 
I can, where *intelligent* adults would, most likely, come to the same 
conclusion as I - since I can comprehend what Steve Jobs actually said.

Steve Jobs clearly said the most important reason was that Adobe wanted to 
develop apps for iOS using Flash. Period. That's the main reason. 
Steve Jobs said it very clearly himself.

Now, the Apple Apologists tend to deny even what Apple publicly admits, so, 
it wouldn't be surprising for them to make the decision into something that 
it's not. (Or, Steve Jobs could have been lying, which we know Tim Cook has 
been caught twice last year doing - so it's not unheard of.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#55167

On 26 Aug 2018 20:13:41 GMT, sms wrote:

> Moto X4 on Sale at Newegg for $199.99 ($100 off)
> 
> <https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875209541&cm_re=moto_x4-_-75-209-541-_-Product>
> 
> This phone is in high demand. Most places are selling it for $300 or 
> $350 
> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1357016-REG/motorola_pa8s0006us_moto_x_4th_gen.html> 
> or 
> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1357016-REG/motorola_pa8s0006us_moto_x_4th_gen.html>.
> 
> It's the closest Android phone to an iPhone 8 (non-plus). There are very 
> few quad-carrier Android phones that are not 5.5" or larger. Some people 
> prefer a smaller screen phone, and only the really junky GSM-only phones 
> are typically available in smaller screen sizes anymore.
> 
> Here is part of a spreadsheet I put together, these columns compare the 
> iPhone 8 (non-plus) to the Moto X4, see 
> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HI-ejgQF5-OfJdS7yj-YL_we-v1PiMG0_JM8nGAlN38>. 
> Each has some areas where they are better. The X4 has a higher 
> resolution screen, more RAM, a front flash, better cameras, Micro SD 
> Card Slot, 3.5mm Headphone Jack, FM radio, USB OTG, Adobe Flash Support, 
> and is IP68 rather than just IP67. However the CPU in the X4 is 
> significantly slower than the one in the iPhone 8, and the iPhone 8 has 
> a few more LTE bands, and has less ROM built-in.

While nospam always finds the *worst* comparisons (which takes zero brains
to find a terrible comparison), you found a pretty good comparison here.

In our last honest hardware comparison, together, we determined anyone in
the USA could buy five (5) far more functional Android phones for the price
of a single far less functional iPhone 7 Plus:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/HDI8moW_4Pw/fFqp2LudAQAJ>

Similarly, depending on the price of the 64GB 8-core MotoX, it seems that
not only is the MotoX far more functional than the 5-core iPhone 8, but you
can buy about two (2) of the far more functional Android Moto X4 phones for
the price of a single far less functional iPhone 8.

Here's your spreadsheet in terms of what's better:
 *MotoX4 wins* on Resolution functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Screen Size functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Pixels Per Inch functionality
 iPhone wins on Geekbench functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Battery functionality (even with the "courageous" jack)
 *MotoX4 wins* on RAM functionality (with 3 or 4GB being the two options)
 *MotoX4 wins* on Front Camera Pixels functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Front Flash functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on NFC functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on SDcard functionality (up to 2TB storage)
 *MotoX4 wins* on "courageous" headphone jack functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on FM radio functionality 
 *MotoX4 wins* on USB OTG functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Adobe Flash Support
 *MotoX4 wins* on Waterproofing (even with the "courageous" headphone jack)
 *MotoX4 wins* on Price-to-performance/features/functionality (by far

As with the last test of the 8-core $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus against the 3-core 
 Resolution: iPhone8 is 750x1334 vs MotoX4 is 1080x1920
 Screen Size:  iPhone 8 is 4.7inches vs MotoX4 is 5.2 inches
 Pixels Per Inch: iPhone8 is 326ppi vs MotoX4 is 424ppi
 Geekbench Multi-Core: iPhone 8 is 10118 vs MotoX4 is 4098
 Quad-Carrier: Both are quad carrier
 LTE Bands: iPhone 8 is 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,12,13,17,18,19,20,25,26,28,29,30,66
vs MotoX4 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,12,13,17,20,25,26,28,66
 Battery Capacity: (mAH) iPhone8 is 1821 vs Moto X4 is 3000
 RAM: iPhone8 is 2GB vs MotoX4 is 3GB (with 4GB being optionally available)
 ROM: iPhone is 64GB minimum, MotoX4 minimum is 32GB
 Rear Camera: Both are 12 Mpixels 
 Front Camera: iPhone 8 is 7 Mpixels vs MotoX4 is 16MPixels
 Front Flash: iPhone 8 has no functionality vs MotoX4 front flash
 Wi-Fi: Both are 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac 
 NFC: iPhone8 is Apple Pay Only vs MotoX4 has NFC
 Face ID: Neither phone has Face ID
 Iris Scan: Neither phone has Iris Scan
 Fingerprint Reader: Both phones have a fingerprint reader
 Micro SD Card Slot: iPhone8 lacks basic functionality vs MotoX has it
 3.5mm Headphone Jack: iPhone8 lacks basic functionality vs MotoX has it
 FM radio: iPhone8 lacks basic functionality vs MotoX has it
 USB OTG: iPhone8 lacks basic functionality vs MotoX has it
 Adobe Flash Support: iPhone8 lacks basic functionality vs MotoX has it
 Waterproof: iPhone8 is IP67 vs MotoX is IP68
 Street Price $699 (64GB) $200-300 (periodically on sale)

In summary, the 8-core far more functional Android Moto X4 is about half
the price of the far less functional 5-core iPhone 8.

Plus: There's no way of knowing yet if Apple will throttle the iPhone 8 to
half the originally tested CPU speeds in just about a year anyway.

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#55168

On 27 Aug 2018 03:56:25 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

>  *MotoX4 wins* on Adobe Flash Support

https://www.gsmarc.com/motorola/moto-x4/reviews/

This says "browser also supports Adobe Flash", which is strange given that
Flash Support was mutually removed by Google/Adobe in Android 4.0.

So this bears more scrutiny - but it's not a critical feature since,
apparently, people who really want flash can add flash by side loading
(according to this article on the Moto X):
<http://motoxhub.com/how-to-add-flash-player-support-on-moto-x-especially-after-kitkat-update/>

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#55172

On 8/26/2018 9:04 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 27 Aug 2018 03:56:25 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:
> 
>>   *MotoX4 wins* on Adobe Flash Support
> 
> https://www.gsmarc.com/motorola/moto-x4/reviews/
> 
> This says "browser also supports Adobe Flash", which is strange given that
> Flash Support was mutually removed by Google/Adobe in Android 4.0.
> 
> So this bears more scrutiny - but it's not a critical feature since,
> apparently, people who really want flash can add flash by side loading
> (according to this article on the Moto X):
> <http://motoxhub.com/how-to-add-flash-player-support-on-moto-x-especially-after-kitkat-update/>

Flash works fine on Android devices. It's no longer included on the 
Chrome browser that ships with Android. You have to install Flash 
support from the Google Play store.

There are two browsers for Android that I know of where you can run 
Flash by installing the Flash extension:
1. Firefox 
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobi.browser.flashfox>
2. Dolphin 
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dolphin.browser.engine>.

The reason why I included Flash support in my little comparison 
spreadsheet 
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HI-ejgQF5-OfJdS7yj-YL_we-v1PiMG0_JM8nGAlN38> 
is because everyone occasionally ends up on sites that require Adobe 
Flash support, and it's annoying to not be able to view the site. As 
9to5Mac stated: "Despite a long list of technological disadvantages and 
better technology emerging, Adobe’s Flash Player has refused to die on 
its own." Even though Adobe has said that it will stop distributing its 
Flash player in 2020, Flash will live on for many years after that.

I went back and put in a footnote on the spreadsheet, "*Install Firefox 
or Dolphin Browser and Flash Extension from Google Play Store"

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#55174

In article <pm146v$ral$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Flash works fine on Android devices.

flash has never worked fine on android. it was intolerably slow and a
major battery drain when it was included ago, two key reasons why
support for it was removed.

flash is dead.

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#55177

On 27 Aug 2018 08:33:00 GMT, nospam wrote:

> flash has never worked fine on android. it was intolerably slow and a
> major battery drain when it was included ago, two key reasons why
> support for it was removed.

What nospam is trying to do is deflect the main focus that the half as
expensive 8-core Android Moto X4 is a far more functional device in almost
all respects (both hardware and software) than the twice-as expensive
5-core iPhone 8.

We found nospam similarly deflecting the overall hardware/software
comparison when we proved beyond a doubt that you can buy five (5) far more
functional 8-core Android LG Stylo 3 Plus phones for the price of just one
far less functional 3-core iPhone 7 Plus.

As always, nospam is trying to deflect the focus off this point, where his
utter lack of credibility is due mostly to his imaginary belief system
leaving no room for actual factual reality such that everything in nospam's
make-believe walled garden world is exactly as Steve Jobs had wished it
would be.

Nonetheless, flash exists, and can be added to Android phones, if the user
so desires. And plenty want it - just as even more don't want it. But as
always with all things Android, the intelligent user has the choice.
<https://duckduckgo.com/html?q=add%20adobe%20flash%20to%20android%207>

The Adobe Flash software is here:
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/installers/archive/android/11.1.115.81/install_flash_player_ics.apk

Always remember that the Apple user makes almost every decision based on an
inordiant utterly all encompassing *fear* of technology combined with a
slavish desire to follow someone elses' feeling of style (e.g., that's why
colors and emoji's are a "big deal" to many Apple buyers).

The Apple owner is an Apple owner due mainly to three inbred forces:
a. Utter abject fear
b. Slavish adherance to style
c. Lack of any concept of logical price-to-performance comparisons
(for the two reasons above)

Just watch.
Everything nospam says fits into one of those three categories.

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#55180

On 8/27/2018 9:12 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 27 Aug 2018 08:33:00 GMT, nospam wrote:
> 
>> flash has never worked fine on android. it was intolerably slow and a
>> major battery drain when it was included ago, two key reasons why
>> support for it was removed.
> 
> What nospam is trying to do is deflect the main focus that the half as
> expensive 8-core Android Moto X4 is a far more functional device in almost
> all respects (both hardware and software) than the twice-as expensive
> 5-core iPhone 8.

He's simply incorrect about Flash not working well. It works just fine.

I'm sure he could find a $40 Android Tracfone, or a $59 tablet, with 1GB 
of ROM and a slow CPU, where Flash is flaky.

It was back in the day of Froyo (2010), when hardware was much slower, 
that Flash didn't work well, which is why Google removed it from the 
Chrome browser for Android. With Ice Cream Sandwich and greater the 
hardware was fast enough for Flash to run perfectly.

On any current mid-range to high-end phone or tablet Flash is not a 
problem. Software decoding does require a lot of CPU cycles, so it does 
drain the battery faster, but there are many apps that have high battery 
drain, so that's a senseless excuse to not provide functionality.

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#55181

In article <pm1ee9$ecf$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > 
> >> flash has never worked fine on android. it was intolerably slow and a
> >> major battery drain when it was included ago, two key reasons why
> >> support for it was removed.
> > 
> > What nospam is trying to do is deflect the main focus that the half as
> > expensive 8-core Android Moto X4 is a far more functional device in almost
> > all respects (both hardware and software) than the twice-as expensive
> > 5-core iPhone 8.
> 
> He's simply incorrect about Flash not working well. It works just fine.

it doesn't work just fine and never has, even on desktop computers.
flash has always been a cpu hog full of security exploits. adobe ceased
development of mobile flash long ago.

flash is dead.


> Software decoding does require a lot of CPU cycles, so it does 
> drain the battery faster,

in other words, it doesn't work just fine.

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#55183

On 27 Aug 2018 11:19:39 GMT, nospam wrote:

> flash is dead.

As always, less function iPhone hardware is usually from two to five times 
more expensive than the more functional Android hardware.

You, nospam, desperately want the focus of this thread to NOT be on what it 
is intended to be, which is a decent hardware comparison of these phones:
a. 8-core 64-bit Moto X4 (with 3 or optionally 4GB RAM)
b. 6-core 64-bit iPhone 8 (with 2GB RAM only available) [actually 5 cores]

Based on this chart:
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HI-ejgQF5-OfJdS7yj-YL_we-v1PiMG0_JM8nGAlN38>

The Moto X4 is "about half the price", and the Moto X4 has the following 
hardware advantages over the iPhone 8.
 *MotoX4 wins* on Resolution functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Screen Size functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Pixels Per Inch functionality
 iPhone wins on Geekbench functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Battery functionality (even with the "courageous" jack)
 *MotoX4 wins* on RAM functionality (with 3 or 4GB being the two options)
 *MotoX4 wins* on Front Camera Pixels functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Front Flash functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on NFC functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on SDcard functionality (up to 2TB storage)
 *MotoX4 wins* on "courageous" headphone jack functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on FM radio functionality 
 *MotoX4 wins* on USB OTG functionality
 *MotoX4 wins* on Adobe Flash Support
 *MotoX4 wins* on Waterproofing (even with the "courageous" headphone jack)
 *MotoX4 wins* on Price (by a whopping 100%)

While you deprecate the "adobe flash support" of the Android phone, an 
Android user can at least choose to use it or not - whereas - for example - 
for the iPhone user, the lack of battery functionality, screen resolution, 
screen size, "courageous" jack, FM radio, waterproofing, camera flash, 
sdcard, radio, OTG, etc., hardware functionality cannot be easily added by 
the consumer.

As always, you _hate_ a logical price-to-performance comparison between 
Android and iOS which is witnessed by the fact that you _always_ come up 
with the absolute worst comparisons (which takes zero brains).

What sms came up with is, apparently, at least to logical adult thinkers, a 
pretty good price to performance comparison.

Do you deny any of sms' facts in his spreadsheet (other than Flash)?
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HI-ejgQF5-OfJdS7yj-YL_we-v1PiMG0_JM8nGAlN38>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#55184

On 8/27/2018 12:24 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:

> While you deprecate the "adobe flash support" of the Android phone, an
> Android user can at least choose to use it or not

Adobe has said that in 2020 they will stop distributing Flash plug-ins. 
AS to how long Flash remains popular after that, it could take another 
five years before Flash enabled sites remove most Flash content.

As 9to5Mac writes "the death of Flash will have no consequences for iOS 
devices which never supported the desktop <sic> plug-in." Of course it 
was not just a desktop plug-in, portable devices running Android and 
Windows also supported it.

I like the fact that Android still supports Flash. Even though the 
amount of Flash content is decreasing, there is still a huge amount of 
it out there and it's useful to be able to access it.

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#55185

In article <pm1ml9$g92$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> 
> Adobe has said that in 2020 they will stop distributing Flash plug-ins. 

that's desktop flash. mobile flash was discontinued more than six years
ago.

> AS to how long Flash remains popular after that, it could take another 
> five years before Flash enabled sites remove most Flash content.

nonsense. it's almost entirely gone already, certainly on mobile where
flash is not supported.

as usual, you're fixated on an extreme edge case and pretending it's
common.

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#55194

On 27 Aug 2018 13:34:52 GMT, nospam wrote:

> nonsense. it's almost entirely gone already, certainly on mobile where
> flash is not supported.

As always, not only is nospam's world completely black and white, but his
guesses are always wrong, which simply prove yet again that he lives in an
imaginary world.

Besides, the point of this thread isn't nospam's silly semantic games, but
the fact that the Moto X4 is a better phone in almost all respects than the
iPhone 8, at half the price.

It seems nospam can't refute that fact with facts in his imaginary world.

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#55186

In message <270820181133002452%nospam@nospam.invalid>
          nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>In article <pm146v$ral$1@dont-email.me>, sms
><scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Flash works fine on Android devices.
>
>flash has never worked fine on android.

Wrong, as is usual for nospam.

>flash is dead.

Wrong, as is usual for nospam.

Dave

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#55187

On 2018-08-27 2:03 PM, David Higton wrote:
> In message <270820181133002452%nospam@nospam.invalid>
>            nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> In article <pm146v$ral$1@dont-email.me>, sms
>> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Flash works fine on Android devices.
>>
>> flash has never worked fine on android.
> 
> Wrong, as is usual for nospam.
> 
>> flash is dead.
> 
> Wrong, as is usual for nospam.
> 
> Dave
> 

Odd then that Adobe agrees that Flash is dead:

'Given this progress, and in collaboration with several of our 
technology partners – including Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft and 
Mozilla – Adobe is planning to end-of-life Flash. Specifically, we will 
stop updating and distributing the Flash Player at the end of 2020'

<https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-flash-update/>

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#55188

On 8/27/2018 2:10 PM, Alan Baker wrote:

<snip>

> Odd then that Adobe agrees that Flash is dead:
> 
> 'Given this progress, and in collaboration with several of our 
> technology partners – including Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft and 
> Mozilla – Adobe is planning to end-of-life Flash. Specifically, we will 
> stop updating and distributing the Flash Player at the end of 2020'
> 
> <https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-flash-update/>

There is still a tremendous amount of Flash content out there. Stuff 
that really should be updated but isn't. A lot of instructional videos 
are old, but the content hasn't changed so they aren't updated.

I recall when my tenant wanted to show me a video on laminate flooring 
that he wanted me to install. He grabbed his iPad. No dice. I grabbed by 
Google Nexus 7 tablet. The video played perfectly. I ribbed him since he 
works for Apple. Even back then, with Jelly Bean (Android 4.3) Flash ran 
just fine.

The end of 2020 is still 2.4 years away. For 10 years Android has had 
the advantage of not limiting the web content its users can view. Flash 
will be around long after Adobe stops distributing it.

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#55190

In article <pm1qci$nru$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> There is still a tremendous amount of Flash content out there. Stuff 
> that really should be updated but isn't. A lot of instructional videos 
> are old, but the content hasn't changed so they aren't updated.

nonsense. 

flash is used on less than 5% of all sites (desktop+mobile) and
dropping fast, most of which are abandoned or desktop-centric, so the
real impact to mobile users is *much* smaller. anyone designing a
mobile site would not be using flash in the first place.

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/flash-used-on-5-percent-
of-all-websites-down-from-285-percent-seven-years-ago/>
  With Flash usage numbers going down, by the time the end of 2020
  comes around and Adobe stops all Flash support, the technology would
  be an afterthought for most users, except the few sysadmin souls
  trapped into supporting the aging tech on desperately outdated
  corporate networks and apps.

> I recall when my tenant wanted to show me a video on laminate flooring 
> that he wanted me to install. He grabbed his iPad. No dice. I grabbed by 
> Google Nexus 7 tablet. The video played perfectly. I ribbed him since he 
> works for Apple. Even back then, with Jelly Bean (Android 4.3) Flash ran 
> just fine.

except that flash support was dropped in 4.1, making your story very
suspect and completely irrelevant today.

> The end of 2020 is still 2.4 years away. For 10 years Android has had 
> the advantage of not limiting the web content its users can view. Flash 
> will be around long after Adobe stops distributing it.

both google and adobe dropped support for mobile flash more than six
years ago.

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#55193

On 27 Aug 2018 14:27:44 GMT, sms wrote:

> The end of 2020 is still 2.4 years away. For 10 years Android has had 
> the advantage of not limiting the web content its users can view. Flash 
> will be around long after Adobe stops distributing it.

While Alan Baker is a well known Apple Apologist who lives in the same
Apple-prescribed imaginary world that nospam lives in, it's a fact that you
can pick up, today, the APK for Flash from the official web site.

Hence, as always, the Apple Apologists are dead wrong on their facts.

Why are these two Apple Apologists always dead wrong on facts?
I don't know why.

It seems they live in a make-believe world of imaginary circumstances
that Apple MARKETING fed to them but which don't fit into the real world.

When the Apple Apologists step away from playing their silly semantic
games, there's no getting around the fact that you can buy from two (Moto
X4) to five (LG Stylo 3 Plus) far more functional Android phones (both in
most of the hardware and app software functionality) for the price of a
single iPhone (iPhone 8 & iPhone 7 Plus respectively).

Those are facts that even the Apple Apologists don't dare dispute.

If the Apple Apologists dare dispute the facts - they will be shown to be
the fools that they are - simply by their own words since those are facts
that all reasonable adults easily agree upon.

Facts re funny that way.

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