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Which uses less power

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  Which uses less power Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> - 2024-10-22 02:15 -0400
    Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 09:26 +0000
      Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-22 12:15 -0500
        Re: Which uses less power Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-10-22 17:41 +0000
          Re: Which uses less power Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2024-10-23 10:00 +0200
          Re: Which uses less power "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-23 16:10 +0200
          Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-23 09:51 -0500
            Re: Which uses less power Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> - 2024-10-23 18:29 +0200
              Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-23 13:02 -0500
                Re: Which uses less power Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 22:24 +0200
                Re: Which uses less power Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> - 2024-10-24 18:47 +0200
                  Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-24 16:38 -0500
        Re: Which uses less power Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-10-22 17:22 -0400
          Re: Which uses less power Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:34 +0200
            Re: Which uses less power Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-10-23 12:36 +0200
              Re: Which uses less power Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 15:39 +0200
                Re: Which uses less power Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-10-26 11:57 +0200
        Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 21:24 +0000
          Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-22 20:04 -0500
          Re: Which uses less power micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-10-22 23:29 -0400
    Re: Which uses less power Siard <xx@xx.invalid> - 2024-10-22 11:35 +0200
    Re: Which uses less power Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-10-22 10:54 +0100
      Re: Which uses less power Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 16:24 +0100
      Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 21:13 +0000
    Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-22 12:18 -0500
    Re: Which uses less power sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-10-22 13:05 -0700
      Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 21:30 +0000
        Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-22 20:04 -0500
          Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 06:27 +0000
            Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-23 07:57 -0500
              Re: Which uses less power sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-10-23 06:32 -0700
              Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 17:24 +0000
          Re: Which uses less power "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-23 16:15 +0200
            Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-23 12:21 -0500
              Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 20:21 +0000
              Re: Which uses less power "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-23 22:40 +0200
        Re: Which uses less power Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 03:35 +0200
          Re: Which uses less power Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 04:06 +0200
            Re: Which uses less power The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 20:45 -0700
              Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 06:27 +0000
                Re: Which uses less power "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-23 16:17 +0200
                Re: Which uses less power The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 19:53 -0700
                  Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-24 06:25 +0000
                  Re: Which uses less power "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-24 16:06 +0200
                    Re: Which uses less power The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-10-24 09:17 -0700
                  Re: Which uses less power micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-10-24 21:02 -0400
              Re: Which uses less power sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-10-23 23:56 -0700
                Re: Which uses less power The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-10-24 09:20 -0700
            Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 06:27 +0000
              Re: Which uses less power "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-23 16:24 +0200
            Re: Which uses less power Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> - 2024-10-23 14:33 +0200
              Re: Which uses less power Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 15:58 +0200
              Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 17:24 +0000
      Re: Which uses less power sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-10-22 17:47 -0700
      Re: Which uses less power Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-10-23 13:21 +0200
        Re: Which uses less power VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-10-23 08:26 -0500
          Re: Which uses less power Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2024-10-26 12:04 +0200
    Re: Which uses less power micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2024-10-22 23:32 -0400
      Re: Which uses less power Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 06:30 +0000
      Re: Which uses less power "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-23 16:27 +0200
    Re: Which uses less power sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-10-23 05:51 -0700

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#143745

On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 02:15 -0400, Bill Powell wrote:
> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
> 
> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?

You can install AccuBattery to measure the discharge current, so you can
see exactly what difference it makes.

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#143746

Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
> 
> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?

My instinct says that moving the speaker coil is going to cost more power
than doing RF for the Bluetooth, but it'll depend on a lot of things, such
as how much volume you have for the speaker.

I'd do some experiments - fully charge the phone, set it to play the same
multi-hour podcast, come back at the end and see what the battery percentage
looks like.

Theo

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#143747

On 10:54  22 Oct 2024, Theo said:
> Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>> 
>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
> 
> My instinct says that moving the speaker coil is going to cost more
> power than doing RF for the Bluetooth, but it'll depend on a lot of
> things, such as how much volume you have for the speaker.

I vaguely recall observing something like an additional 200 mA drain
when playing my phone speaker at a medium-loud volume. That's quite a
lot. 

I rarely use Bluetooth but some say its current consumption is about a
tenth of that, or even less.

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#143752

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>> 
>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
> 
> My instinct says that moving the speaker coil is going to cost more power
> than doing RF for the Bluetooth, but it'll depend on a lot of things, such
> as how much volume you have for the speaker.
> 
> I'd do some experiments - fully charge the phone, set it to play the same
> multi-hour podcast, come back at the end and see what the battery percentage
> looks like.

Remember to repeat the experiment sufficiently for a statistically
meaningful result ;)

> Theo
> 

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#143749

Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:

> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
> 
> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
> 
> Any idea?

The Bluetooth headset requires its own power source to produce the
audio.  Audio played from the phone's speaker uses the phone's battery.
Of course, with the BT headset consuming its own battery to power the
audio output, you'll have to recharge the BT headset.  Depending on how
"long" is the trip, your BT headset could die before you arrive.  But
then so, too, can your phone, unless you carry a power pack (I always
take on on a trip that is fully charged), or have a power port in the
car or plane to recharge the phone or keep the phone charged.

Presumably your smartphone support Bluetooth LE (low energy).  Even if
using the phone's own speaker for audio output, you're likely still
leaving on the BT radio to consume energy.  The BT power would be wasted
when using the phone's speaker.

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#143751

On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
> 
> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
> 
> Any idea?

Speaker wattage is about 3W.

Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.

So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.

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#143755

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>> 
>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>> 
>> Any idea?
> 
> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>
> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
> 
> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.

Do you have a source?

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#143759

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>> 
>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>> 
>>> Any idea?
>> 
>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>
>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>> 
>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
> 
> Do you have a source?

Do you to refute?

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#143768

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>> 
>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>> 
>>>> Any idea?
>>> 
>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>> 
>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>> 
>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>> 
>> Do you have a source?
> 
> Do you to refute?

Tedious attitude. 

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#143775

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any idea?
>>>> 
>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>> 
>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>> 
>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>> 
>>> Do you have a source?
>> 
>> Do you to refute?
> 
> Tedious attitude.

Yep, your typical participation here.

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#143777

On 10/23/2024 5:57 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> Tedious attitude.
> 
> Yep, your typical participation here.

Usenet filters are your friend!

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#143789

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>> 
>>> Do you to refute?
>> 
>> Tedious attitude.
> 
> Yep, your typical participation here.

sms shared specific numbers. They are meaningless without a source. 

Whether I "refute" the numbers or not doesn't matter. 

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#143782

On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>
>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>
>>>> Any idea?
>>>
>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>
>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>
>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>
>> Do you have a source?
> 
> Do you to refute?

I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#143787

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>
>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>
>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>
>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>
>>> Do you have a source?
>> 
>> Do you to refute?
> 
> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)

Me, too.  I'd like to know the basis for both claims.  Alas, there are
so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices
employed that the results are unpredictable.

BLE devices go into low-power sleep mode when inactive.  Batteries in
BLE devices are typically much smaller (far less capacity) than the
battery in a phone.  But that's for BLE devices.  Unless you turn it
off, does the BT radio in the phone ever go into sleep mode?  No, not
when the phone itself goes into sleep mode, but if the BT radio alone
will go into sleep mode.

My reading of the OP's inquiry is that he is asking about power drain on
the phone's battery when using its speakers versus using the BT radio in
the phone to a BLE device.  BT isn't transmitting power, just a signal,
but the longer the BT radio is active the more power it consumes
assuming the BT radio in the phone ever goes into low-power sleep mode.
From what I've found, the BT radio in the phone is either on or off, not
in a low-power sleep mode (that's just for BT devices).

Since the OP wasn't asking about battery drain on the BT headset device,
but on the impact to the phone's battery when using BT, I did find:

https://www.seinxon.com/blogs/blog-posts/does-bluetooth-drain-your-battery

The article doesn't give a bio on Robert Triggs, or which of his
articles is cited.  Might be this guy:

https://www.soundguys.com/author/roberttriggs/

Note the OP only mentioned "Bluetooth".  Not which version of it.  He
didn't mention his phone, so we cannot lookup what BT versions it
supports.  We don't which versions of BT the BT headset uses, either.

Batteries lose capacity (coloumbs) over time even when not use, but more
when in-circuit than sitting on a shelf.  Be interesting to know if loss
of capacity in the phone's battery from BLE radio usage outstrips the
natural drain of the phone's battery.

Also remember that it isn't just the BT radio in the phone that is
consuming power.  The CPU needs power to control the radio and the radio
protocol stack.  There is also chatter between the BT radio in the phone
to the BT device.  Once bonded to a BT device, the two endpoints need to
keep the channel alive by periodically passing packets even when no
traffic is being sent to the endpoints.

https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison

That says the BLE radio consumes 10 to 100 mW while traditional BT
consumes 1 W: 10 to 100 times difference.  Again, we don't know which BT
is involved for the OP.  It also mentions packets are sent in bursts
using BLE, and the BLE device sleeps between bursts (but not if the
phone's BLE radio sleeps between bursts).

So, then to compare BLE radio power consumption in the phone (to a BLE
device) versus using the phone's speaker power consumption, there are
several variable when using the speakers, like the volume level at the
speaker.  Playing at louder volume means more power consumed from the
phone's battery.  While phone speakers may be rated 1.5 to 3W (for
output power), input power would be higher (no speaker is 100%
efficient), but again affected by the volume level.  However, who
listens to music by putting their phone's speaker next to their ear to
play at low volume?  Earbuds don't need as nearly as much power to
produce the same volume level in the ear as opposed to audio from the
speaker in the phone.  Heavy bass uses more power.  More energy to push
the cone further.  Speaker sensitivity affects power consumption: a
lower-power rated speaker that is more efficient can produce the same
volume as a higher-power rated but less efficient speaker.  Headphones
are more energy efficient than speakers, but the OP probably does not
have a phone with a headphone jack, and why he asks about BT headphones
or ear buds.  The bigger the speaker, the more energy to move the larger
mass.  Design, components, and usage affect power consumption of the
speaker(s).

Looks like the phone's internal speaker draws about 8 mW, on average,
but the variables above can produce varying results.  Meanwhile the BLE
radio in the phone will consume 10 to 100 mW of power which looks more
than for the internal speaker; however, you'd have to know how often are
the bursts and sleeps to average out or RMS the power consumption over
the time the BLE device is active.  There are no bursts with traditional
BT, so that type of radio in the phone would likely use nearly or more
power than the internal speaker.

Besides, how many speakers are there in a phone?  One.  So forget about
stereo (left vs right) spatial differentiation in audio quality.  With
headphones (via jack or BT), you get stereo.

As others mentioned, probably the best way to gauge power consumption to
compare internal speakers against whatever BT version is used to the
BT/BLE headset is to monitor battery consumption.  Play the same media
for the same length of time, like 1 to 4 hours, once using the internal
speaker (with BT turned off) and another time using the BT/BLE headset.
A lot depends on volume level, density of the media, whether BT or BLE
is used, efficiency of the speaker and circuit design.  Start with a
fully charged phone battery each time to obviate the natural drain on
the battery even when idle.  The OP needs to determine how his
unidentified phone with its speakers fairs against using a BT/BLE
headset.  There are a LOT of variables in a vague scenario.

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#143791

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>> 
>>> Do you to refute?
>> 
>> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)
> 
> Me, too.  I'd like to know the basis for both claims.  Alas, there are
> so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices
> employed that the results are unpredictable.

A perfect link answering the OP's question pretty clearly has been posted.
Could more data be collected? Always, but I'd say there aren't too many
variables. 

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#143793

On 2024-10-23 19:21, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>
>>> Do you to refute?
>>
>> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)
> 
> Me, too.  I'd like to know the basis for both claims.  Alas, there are
> so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices
> employed that the results are unpredictable.
> 
> BLE devices go into low-power sleep mode when inactive.  Batteries in
> BLE devices are typically much smaller (far less capacity) than the
> battery in a phone.  But that's for BLE devices.  Unless you turn it
> off, does the BT radio in the phone ever go into sleep mode?  No, not
> when the phone itself goes into sleep mode, but if the BT radio alone
> will go into sleep mode.

Low power BT does not transmits during silence, AFAIK.

> 
> My reading of the OP's inquiry is that he is asking about power drain on
> the phone's battery when using its speakers versus using the BT radio in
> the phone to a BLE device.  BT isn't transmitting power, just a signal,
> but the longer the BT radio is active the more power it consumes
> assuming the BT radio in the phone ever goes into low-power sleep mode.
>  From what I've found, the BT radio in the phone is either on or off, not
> in a low-power sleep mode (that's just for BT devices).
> 
> Since the OP wasn't asking about battery drain on the BT headset device,
> but on the impact to the phone's battery when using BT, I did find:
> 
> https://www.seinxon.com/blogs/blog-posts/does-bluetooth-drain-your-battery
> 
> The article doesn't give a bio on Robert Triggs, or which of his
> articles is cited.  Might be this guy:
> 
> https://www.soundguys.com/author/roberttriggs/
> 
> Note the OP only mentioned "Bluetooth".  Not which version of it.  He
> didn't mention his phone, so we cannot lookup what BT versions it
> supports.  We don't which versions of BT the BT headset uses, either.

Someone mentioned an app to measure power drain.


> 
> Batteries lose capacity (coloumbs) over time even when not use, but more
> when in-circuit than sitting on a shelf.  Be interesting to know if loss
> of capacity in the phone's battery from BLE radio usage outstrips the
> natural drain of the phone's battery.
> 
> Also remember that it isn't just the BT radio in the phone that is
> consuming power.  The CPU needs power to control the radio and the radio
> protocol stack.  There is also chatter between the BT radio in the phone
> to the BT device.  Once bonded to a BT device, the two endpoints need to
> keep the channel alive by periodically passing packets even when no
> traffic is being sent to the endpoints.
> 
> https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison
> 
> That says the BLE radio consumes 10 to 100 mW while traditional BT
> consumes 1 W: 10 to 100 times difference.  Again, we don't know which BT
> is involved for the OP.  It also mentions packets are sent in bursts
> using BLE, and the BLE device sleeps between bursts (but not if the
> phone's BLE radio sleeps between bursts).
> 
> So, then to compare BLE radio power consumption in the phone (to a BLE
> device) versus using the phone's speaker power consumption, there are
> several variable when using the speakers, like the volume level at the
> speaker.  Playing at louder volume means more power consumed from the
> phone's battery.  While phone speakers may be rated 1.5 to 3W (for
> output power), input power would be higher (no speaker is 100%
> efficient), but again affected by the volume level.  However, who
> listens to music by putting their phone's speaker next to their ear to
> play at low volume?  Earbuds don't need as nearly as much power to
> produce the same volume level in the ear as opposed to audio from the
> speaker in the phone.  Heavy bass uses more power.  More energy to push
> the cone further.  Speaker sensitivity affects power consumption: a
> lower-power rated speaker that is more efficient can produce the same
> volume as a higher-power rated but less efficient speaker.  Headphones
> are more energy efficient than speakers, but the OP probably does not
> have a phone with a headphone jack, and why he asks about BT headphones
> or ear buds.  The bigger the speaker, the more energy to move the larger
> mass.  Design, components, and usage affect power consumption of the
> speaker(s).
> 
> Looks like the phone's internal speaker draws about 8 mW, on average,
> but the variables above can produce varying results.  Meanwhile the BLE
> radio in the phone will consume 10 to 100 mW of power which looks more
> than for the internal speaker; however, you'd have to know how often are
> the bursts and sleeps to average out or RMS the power consumption over
> the time the BLE device is active.  There are no bursts with traditional
> BT, so that type of radio in the phone would likely use nearly or more
> power than the internal speaker.
> 
> Besides, how many speakers are there in a phone?  One.  So forget about
> stereo (left vs right) spatial differentiation in audio quality.  With
> headphones (via jack or BT), you get stereo.

No, my phone does have stereo speakers, but you have to turn it 90 
degrees (to horizontal).

> 
> As others mentioned, probably the best way to gauge power consumption to
> compare internal speakers against whatever BT version is used to the
> BT/BLE headset is to monitor battery consumption.  Play the same media
> for the same length of time, like 1 to 4 hours, once using the internal
> speaker (with BT turned off) and another time using the BT/BLE headset.
> A lot depends on volume level, density of the media, whether BT or BLE
> is used, efficiency of the speaker and circuit design.  Start with a
> fully charged phone battery each time to obviate the natural drain on
> the battery even when idle.  The OP needs to determine how his
> unidentified phone with its speakers fairs against using a BT/BLE
> headset.  There are a LOT of variables in a vague scenario.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#143760

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>> 
>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>> 
>>> Any idea?
>> 
>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>
>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>> 
>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
> 
> Do you have a source?
> 

https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/

-- 
Qihe

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#143762

Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> ha scritto:

> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> 
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>> 
>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>> 
>>>> Any idea?
>>> 
>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>
>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>> 
>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>> 
>> Do you have a source?
>> 
> 
> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
> 
> -- 
They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
 consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
 audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
 off".

-- 
Qihe

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#143765

On 10/22/24 7:06 PM, Qihe wrote:
> Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> ha scritto:
> 
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>> 
>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any idea?
>>>> 
>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>
>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>> 
>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>> 
>>> Do you have a source?
>>> 
>> 
>> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>> 
>> -- 
> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>   consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>   audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>   off".

Why not obviate the battery problem by putting the podcasts on a USB 
stick plugged into the AUX socket?


-- 
Cheers, Bev
   "When I was in college, the only job I could get was
    shitting on people's lawns.  Sure, the owners complained,
    but it was honest work and it kept me off welfare..."
                         -- M. Tabnik in mcfl (paraphrased)

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#143767

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/22/24 7:06 PM, Qihe wrote:
>> Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> ha scritto:
>> 
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>> 
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>>> 
>>> -- 
>> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>> off".
> 
> Why not obviate the battery problem by putting the podcasts on a USB 
> stick plugged into the AUX socket?

You're assuming they're (1) in a vehicle and (2) where that is possible. 

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