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Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What’s the Difference?

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  Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What’s the Difference? Kim JongUn <USAandNK@WorkersParty.org> - 2026-09-09 20:41 +0200
    Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What’s the Difference? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-09 21:34 +0200
    Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-09 22:22 +0200
      Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Kim JongUn <USAandNK@WorkersParty.org> - 2026-09-09 22:50 +0200
        Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-10 07:43 +0200
      Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Hermes <noreply@oc2mx.net> - 2026-09-11 17:30 +0000
        Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-11 20:07 +0200
          Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Hermes <noreply@oc2mx.net> - 2026-09-11 18:29 +0000
            Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-11 21:55 +0200
              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Hermes <noreply@oc2mx.net> - 2026-09-11 20:32 +0000
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-12 08:22 +0200
              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Librarian2025 <librarian2025@cock.li> - 2026-09-16 00:32 -0500
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-16 08:44 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Gab_Virebent <gabriel1@virebent.invalid> - 2026-09-16 09:28 +0200
                  Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-16 15:45 +0200
                    Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 18:57 +0100
                      Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-16 21:40 +0200
                        Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 00:46 +0100
                          Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 09:38 +0200
                            Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 10:32 +0100
                              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 19:12 +0200
                                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 11:16 +0100
                                  Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-18 15:03 +0200
                    Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Librarian2025 <librarian2025@cock.li> - 2026-09-17 01:12 -0500
                      Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 09:46 +0200
                        Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Librarian2025 <librarian2025@cock.li> - 2026-09-17 13:54 -0500
                          Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:11 +0200
          Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 20:31 +0200
            Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-11 22:16 +0200
              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 22:44 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-12 08:42 +0200
                  Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:46 +0100
                    Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:08 +0200

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#155821 — Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What’s the Difference?

What Is Zero-Knowledge Encryption?

In cloud storage, zero-knowledge encryption is a privacy
model where the provider does not hold the key needed to
decrypt customer's protected data. Files are encrypted
before or within a customer-controlled environment, and
the provider stores an unreadable encrypted version
rather than the original content.

Think of a project lead placing confidential contracts
inside a locked safe before sending that safe to a
storage facility. The facility can store the safe, but
it cannot open it without the key. In the same way, a
zero-knowledge service is designed to store encrypted
files without being able to read their contents.

This is different from ordinary encryption at rest.
Encryption at rest protects files on a server, but the
provider may still control the keys that unlock them.
With zero-knowledge encryption, the key-control model is
designed to reduce that provider access.

There is a trade-off. If a team loses its password,
recovery key, or documented recovery process, the
provider may be unable to restore access to protected
files. For an IT manager choosing private cloud storage,
the right question is not only “Is it encrypted?” It is
“Who holds the keys, and how will our team recover
access if something goes wrong?”

What Is End-to-End Encryption?

End-to-end encryption protects content from the moment
it leaves an authorized device until it reaches the
intended recipient’s device. A message, call, or shared
file is turned into unreadable encrypted data before it
travels across the network. The recipient’s device then 
uses the correct key to make that content readable
again.

Consider an HR manager sending a confidential employee
document to an external employment lawyer. With
end-to-end encryption, the document is protected during
the exchange so that the service carrying it does not
read the document’s contents as it travels between the
two authorized devices.

This is stronger than ordinary encryption in transit.
Encryption in transit, such as a secure connection
between a browser and a cloud server, protects data on
that part of the journey. End-to-end encryption is
designed to protect the content all the way between the
intended endpoints.

End-to-end encryption does not remove every security
responsibility. A compromised laptop can expose files
after they are decrypted, and backups or connected
services may have their own protection model. Before
sharing sensitive files, an IT manager should confirm
what is covered by end-to-end encryption and which
parts of the workflow need separate controls.

<https://cloudbasedbackup.com/en/blog/zero-knowledge-encryption-vs-end-to-end-encryption-whats-the-difference>

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#155822

On 2026-09-09 20:41, Kim JongUn wrote:
> What Is Zero-Knowledge Encryption?
...
> What Is End-to-End Encryption?

Interesting, but why post it to comp.mobile.android?

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#155824 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Kim,

> In cloud storage, zero-knowledge encryption is a privacy
> model where the provider does not hold the key needed to
> decrypt customer's protected data.

iow, "zero-knowledge encryption" is a mis-nomer.

You could as well claim that the intermediate servers in an SSL connection
work with "zero-knowledge encryption" - when all they do is to shuttle some
binary data to and fro.

> What Is End-to-End Encryption?
>
> End-to-end encryption protects content from the moment
> it leaves an authorized device until it reaches the
> intended recipient's device.

Wrong again.  That is not what it *is*, that is what it *does*.(or /should/
do).

End-to-End Encryption is simply the (act of) encrypting of the data on the
source machine, and only allowed the data to be decrypted on the target
machine - because no other machines than those two have the (encryption and)
decryption keys.

> This is different from ordinary encryption at rest.

No, it isn't.   Its not a property of an encryption method, its a feature of
how the transfer is managed.   P2P (point-to-point) versus P2S2P 
(point-to-server-to-point).

> Encryption at rest protects files on a server, but the
> provider may still control the keys that unlock them.

And there you have the problem : *why* should a provider have the decryption
keys for data that is only ment for a specific recipient ?

Answer: The company - mostly one of those "social media" ones - wants to
know whom is saying what to whom.  Hey, how otherwise would they know which
kind of advertisements they best send to either party ?   :-)

> This is stronger than ordinary encryption in transit.

Bullshit.

The problem is not the encryption, but allowing other parties than the
source and target to have their respective decryption keys.

> End-to-end encryption does not remove every security
> responsibility.

Ofcourse not.  But whats left has got absolutily zero to do with whatever
kind of encryption (if any) was used.

If you walk to or from the bank you can get robbed (or even forget the
plastic bag with the money in it in a bus or train, or even ontop of your
car/cab.  And yes, all three have happened).  Thats is not something the
bank has any responsibility for.

iow, even if you do not use any kind of (end-to-end) encryption, you
*always* need basic computer sanitation (to keep malware outof it).
Otherwise you could loose a *lot* more than the contents of such an a
end-to-end encryption protected converation.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155825 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

>iow, "zero-knowledge encryption" is a mis-nomer.
>

Rudy,

Perhaps you should contact the website and let them know your thoughts?

<https://cloudbasedbackup.com/en/blog/zero-knowledge-encryption-vs-end-to-end-encryption-whats-the-difference>

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#155828 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Kim,

> Perhaps you should contact the website and let them know your thoughts?
>
> <https://cloudbasedbackup.com/en/blog/zero-knowledge-encryption-vs-end-to-end-encryption-whats-the-difference>

I've got no intention to talk to a sales department in made-up 10-dollar
words where common 10-cent words work as well.

And do read (first few lines of) both the "What Is Zero-Knowledge
Encryption?" and "What Is End-to-End Encryption?" paragraphs.  They say
exactly what I posted.

Bottom line ?  You're in a "dorothy visits the Wizard of Oz" situation,
quite impressed by what you see (read). Just do not look behind the
curtain, as that would ruin the magic. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155856 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

R.Wieser once wrote:

> End-to-End Encryption is simply the (act of) encrypting of the data on the
> source machine, and only allowed the data to be decrypted on the target
> machine - because no other machines than those two have the (encryption and)
> decryption keys.

Would you always trust the end-to-end security of popular messaging apps,
or would you prefer to allow end users to manage it themselves?

Example: https://github.com/Ch1ffr3punk/MicroCrypt

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#155861 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Hermes,

> Would you always trust the end-to-end security of popular messaging apps,

In one word ?  No.

Some time ago there was such an app offering encrypted P2P communication, 
but which turned out to be P2P to the server, and than from the server P2P 
to the endpoint.

And even when they (now) name it E2E, a weaseling company could simply 
define themselves to be an "E".   Would you be able to detect that for 
yourself ?  I don't think so.

> or would you prefer to allow end users to manage it themselves?

How ?

And mind you, you said "messaging apps", not email where you create the 
message in a text-editor, than encypt it, and than add the resulting file as 
an attachment.  Thats much to cumbersome - especially on a smartphone.

iow, if you offer the raw text to the messaging app you already have to 
trust that the app will not MITM the conversation or also send a duplicate 
to the message-apps company (or elsewhere).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155866 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

R.Wieser once wrote:
> Hermes,

> > or would you prefer to allow end users to manage it themselves?
> 
> How ?
> 
> And mind you, you said "messaging apps", not email where you create the 
> message in a text-editor, than encypt it, and than add the resulting file as 
> an attachment.  Thats much to cumbersome - especially on a smartphone.
> 
> iow, if you offer the raw text to the messaging app you already have to 
> trust that the app will not MITM the conversation or also send a duplicate 
> to the message-apps company (or elsewhere).

MicroCrypt is a multi-purpose symmetric encryption app for mobile and desktop.

Users only need to exchange their password out of band, and then they can
simply copy and paste the encrypted message into any mobile or desktop app.

It's so easy to use that even Granny Smith can use it with her grandchildren.

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#155876 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Hermes,

> MicroCrypt is a multi-purpose symmetric encryption app for mobile and 
> desktop.

Symmetric ?   That to me means its disqualified.

> Users only need to exchange their password out of band,

:-)   How ?    Or, said otherwise : chicken-and-the-egg much ?

The nice thing about a-symetric keys is is that the encoding key may be 
known(!)/given to everyone - as long as the decoding key stays at home.

> and then they can simply copy and paste the encrypted message
> into any mobile or desktop app.

Did I already say that thats cumbersome ?  Yeah, I think I did.

Lets go thru the steps, shall we ?

1) Open app.
2) Copy the received message
3) Paste it in the decoder app (if possible! Otherwise a file needs to be 
used)
4) Read the decoded message
5) Copy the message into a text-editor as a reference (you don't want to 
have to remember everything you're replying to, do you ?), compose a reply 
(, remove the reference text)
6) copy the reply text from the editor
7) Paste the text into the encoder  (or again use a file)
8) Copy the encoded text (or again use a file)
9) paste encoded text into the message.

Thats a *lot* of steps. :-(   Even more if the en/decoder only works with 
files.

> It's so easy to use that even Granny Smith can use it with her 
> grandchildren.

I sincerely doubt that.

Now if you would have said *her grandchildren* (5-year-olds) I would 
probably have believed you. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155878 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

R.Wieser once wrote:

> Lets go thru the steps, shall we ?

Sure!

> 1) Open app.
> 2) Copy the received message
> 3) Paste it in the decoder app (if possible! Otherwise a file needs to be 
> used)
> 4) Read the decoded message
> 5) Copy the message into a text-editor as a reference (you don't want to 
> have to remember everything you're replying to, do you ?), compose a reply 
> (, remove the reference text)
> 6) copy the reply text from the editor
> 7) Paste the text into the encoder  (or again use a file)
> 8) Copy the encoded text (or again use a file)
> 9) paste encoded text into the message.
> 
> Thats a *lot* of steps. :-(   Even more if the en/decoder only works with 
> files.

1) Open MicroCrypt.
2) Paste the received message, then decrypt and edit it in MicroCrypt.
3) Finish editing, then encrypt and copy/paste the message into your
   messenger or email app.

That's all Granny Smith has to do, with just a few clicks, while remembering
the password for her loved ones. :-)

MicroCrypt is designed for the elderly, those who are not tech-savvy, and
people with disabilities, as it avoids the high learning curve of OpenPGP
and leaves no traces on the user's device.

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#155886 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Hermes,

>> Lets go thru the steps, shall we ?
>
> Sure!

[snip]

> 1) Open MicroCrypt.
> 2) Paste the received message, then decrypt and edit it in MicroCrypt.
> 3) Finish editing, then encrypt and copy/paste the message into your
>   messenger or email app.

Ah, thats what I get for trying to work with the incomplete information that 
has been provided : microcrypt is *not* an en/decryption program, its a 
text-editor that does en/decryption too.

But yes, that makes it a lot easier.   Now if only microcrypt would /not/ 
have used a symmetric key ...

And by the way: the decryption in step #2 needs a decryption key. I take it 
that microcrypt offers an easy list to select the needed one from ?

Unless ofcourse granny just told their (grand)kids to use the same 
encryption-key ... :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155948 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> writes:

>> MicroCrypt is a multi-purpose symmetric encryption app for mobile and 
>> desktop.
>
> Symmetric ?   That to me means its disqualified.

Why though? There is no magical vulnerability in symmetric
encryption. Asymmetric encryption solves key distribution problem,
nothing else. If two people exchange keys as passwords written on pieces
of paper when they meet in person, then their encrypted messages do not
magically become easier to decrypt.

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#155949 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Librarian2025,

>> Symmetric ?   That to me means its disqualified.
...
> Asymmetric encryption solves key distribution problem,
> nothing else.

Thats *one* of the things - a pretty major one - it solves.

But what is the *reason* that it solves the key distribution problem ?

Thats right, you do not need to keep the public key a secret.

Now you have only to ask yourself why that that is. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155950 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Librarian2025 wrote:
> 
> "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> writes:
> 
>>> MicroCrypt is a multi-purpose symmetric encryption app for mobile and
>>> desktop.
>>
>> Symmetric ?   That to me means its disqualified.
> 
> Why though? There is no magical vulnerability in symmetric
> encryption. Asymmetric encryption solves key distribution problem,
> nothing else. If two people exchange keys as passwords written on pieces
> of paper when they meet in person, then their encrypted messages do not
> magically become easier to decrypt.
> 
+1

-- 
https://contact.virebent.art
gemini://contact.virebent.art

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#155952 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Gab,

>> Why though? There is no magical vulnerability in symmetric
>> encryption.

You're correct, there is nothing magical about it.

>> Asymmetric encryption solves key distribution problem,
>> nothing else.

Just think of what could happen when one of both parties "looses" their 
symetric key ?   And just assume that they do not realise that it has 
happened.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155955 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

On 2026-09-16, R.Wieser wrote:

> Gab,
>
>>> Why though? There is no magical vulnerability in symmetric
>>> encryption.
>
> You're correct, there is nothing magical about it.
>
>>> Asymmetric encryption solves key distribution problem,
>>> nothing else.
>
> Just think of what could happen when one of both parties "looses" their 
> symetric key ?   And just assume that they do not realise that it has 
> happened.

You realize a few methods rely on generating and exchanging a symmetric
key in an initial step encrypted by asymmetric keys?

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#155959 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Nuno,

> You realize a few methods rely on generating and exchanging a
> symmetric key in an initial step encrypted by asymmetric keys?

That would solve the problem related to exchanging(?) a symmetric key.

But than why use symmetric keys when you already have something that 
generates and works with a-symmetric ones ?   Thats twice the work, with no 
benefit.

>> Just think of what could happen when one of both parties "looses"
>> their symetric key ?   And just assume that they do not realise
>> that it has happened.

You did not answer this one though.

What would be possible when someone else gets hold of the symmetric key ? 
Would he be able to MITM ?

Would he be able to do the same with either or both the public keys ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155962 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

On 2026-09-16, R.Wieser wrote:

> Nuno,
>
>> You realize a few methods rely on generating and exchanging a
>> symmetric key in an initial step encrypted by asymmetric keys?
>
> That would solve the problem related to exchanging(?) a symmetric key.
>
> But than why use symmetric keys when you already have something that 
> generates and works with a-symmetric ones ?   Thats twice the work, with no 
> benefit.

Efficiency of computation, smaller complexity.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#155967 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

Nuno,

>>> You realize a few methods rely on generating and exchanging a
>>> symmetric key in an initial step encrypted by asymmetric keys?
...
>> But than why use symmetric keys when you already have something that
>> generates and works with a-symmetric ones ?   Thats twice the work,
>> with no benefit.
>
> Efficiency of computation, smaller complexity.

You do seem to have little context awareness.

Your answer is in regard to using only one encryption method (likely the 
symmetric key one).   Your own "You realize" talks about using *both* 
methods in the same program.

So, again : why use a symmetric key when you already have generated and used 
an a-symmetric one - just so you could safely get that symmetric key to some 
other party ?

>>> Just think of what could happen when one of both parties "looses"
>>> their symetric key ?   And just assume that they do not realise
>>> that it has happened.

I'm still missing an answer to this question though. :-|


I get the feeling that you have no idea how to defend your stance that the 
usage of symmetric encryption is equal to that of a-symmetric encryption.

In that case we should end our conversation sooner rather than later.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#155969 — Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

On 2026-09-17, R.Wieser wrote:

> Nuno,
>
>>>> You realize a few methods rely on generating and exchanging a
>>>> symmetric key in an initial step encrypted by asymmetric keys?
> ...
>>> But than why use symmetric keys when you already have something that
>>> generates and works with a-symmetric ones ?   Thats twice the work,
>>> with no benefit.
>>
>> Efficiency of computation, smaller complexity.
>
> You do seem to have little context awareness.
>
> Your answer is in regard to using only one encryption method (likely the 
> symmetric key one).   Your own "You realize" talks about using *both* 
> methods in the same program.
>
> So, again : why use a symmetric key when you already have generated and used 
> an a-symmetric one - just so you could safely get that symmetric key to some 
> other party ?

Because the asymmetric encryption used to exchange the symmetric key is
more expensive than the symmetric encryption, so in a longer exchange
you do asymmetric encryption at the beginning, to establish the key for
the cheaper symmetric encryption that takes place for the rest of the
conversation/exchange.

(See SSL and TLS.)

>>>> Just think of what could happen when one of both parties "looses"
>>>> their symetric key ?   And just assume that they do not realise
>>>> that it has happened.
>
> I'm still missing an answer to this question though. :-|
>
>
> I get the feeling that you have no idea how to defend your stance that the 
> usage of symmetric encryption is equal to that of a-symmetric
> encryption.

That's not my stance.

> In that case we should end our conversation sooner rather than later.
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser
>
>

-- 
Nuno Silva

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