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  contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-09 18:33 +0200
    Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-09 18:02 +0100
      Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-09 20:08 +0200
        Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-10 11:26 +0100
          Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-10 12:49 +0200
          Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-10 15:30 +0200
    Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 19:26 +0200
      Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 19:30 +0200
        Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-09 20:10 +0200
          Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 22:21 +0200
            Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-10 12:50 +0200
              Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-10 15:32 +0200
          Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 08:50 +0100
            Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-11 12:25 +0200
              Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-12 09:59 +0200
            Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 19:31 -0400
              Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-14 17:33 +0100
                Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-14 13:25 -0400
                  Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-14 17:01 -0400
        Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:18 +0200
          Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-10 13:38 +0000
            Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 16:49 +0200
              Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-10 18:32 +0100
                Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-10 18:05 +0000
                Re: contacts Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2026-07-10 19:12 +0100
                  Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-11 18:37 +0100
                Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-12 11:58 +0200
                  Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 19:36 -0400
                    Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 19:44 -0400
      Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:16 +0200
    Re: contacts "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:17 +0200
      Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-09 22:22 +0200
        Re: contacts "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-10 11:12 +0200
          Re: contacts Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-07-10 11:33 +0200
            Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:22 +0200
              Re: contacts "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-10 17:53 +0200
        Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-10 13:20 +0200
          Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 00:03 -0400
            Re: contacts ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-12 07:42 +0000
              Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:44 +0100
                Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-12 13:49 +0200
                  Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-12 16:18 +0000
                    Re: contacts "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-12 22:11 +0200
                      Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-12 21:31 +0000
                        Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 21:05 -0400
                          Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 01:52 +0000
                            Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-13 02:26 -0400
                              Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 16:50 +0000
                                Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-13 20:04 +0000
                                  Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 21:17 +0000
                            Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 17:00 +0100
                              Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 17:00 +0000
                                Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 18:10 +0100
                                  Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-13 17:48 +0000
                        Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-13 19:57 +0000
                          Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-14 12:45 +0100
                            Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-14 14:07 +0000
                              Re: contacts Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-07-14 15:28 +0100
                                Re: contacts Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-07-14 15:45 +0000
                          Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-14 16:06 +0200
              Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-12 12:04 +0200
            Re: contacts Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:53 +0100
            Re: contacts Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2026-07-12 12:01 +0200
        Re: contacts AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2026-07-10 16:10 +0000
          Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-12 00:03 -0400
    Re: contacts Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-07-11 23:53 -0400

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#154381 — contacts

Ji,
Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.

And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install 
the google contacts app to provide the API.

Curious!

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#154382

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> Ji,
> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
> 
> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install 
> the google contacts app to provide the API.

There are system contacts, which are visible to apps which have the contacts
permission.  You shouldn't need to install extra apps to use them.

You can, however, have several contacts databases which can be accessed in
different ways.  Your phone's local contacts database, your Google contacts,
your SIM card contacts, etc.

That doesn't stop other vendors making their own contacts database
completely outside of the Android contacts system.  A few apps do that so
they protect their own contacts from privacy-invading apps that want to read
your system contacts and upload them to their server.

However, I'm a bit surprised if Samsung is doing that.  Are you sure you're
not conflating your local contacts database with one stored on Google's
server?  You will need Google's contacts app to sync that.  Perhaps the
Samsung contacts app won't use the Google contacts database, only the local
contacts?

I find K-9 will only use Android contacts, rather than picking those up from
recent emails, which is a bit annoying as I don't use them.

Theo

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#154385

On 2026-07-09 19:02, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> Ji,
>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>
>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install
>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
> 
> There are system contacts, which are visible to apps which have the contacts
> permission.  You shouldn't need to install extra apps to use them.
> 
> You can, however, have several contacts databases which can be accessed in
> different ways.  Your phone's local contacts database, your Google contacts,
> your SIM card contacts, etc.
> 
> That doesn't stop other vendors making their own contacts database
> completely outside of the Android contacts system.  A few apps do that so
> they protect their own contacts from privacy-invading apps that want to read
> your system contacts and upload them to their server.
> 
> However, I'm a bit surprised if Samsung is doing that.  Are you sure you're
> not conflating your local contacts database with one stored on Google's
> server?  You will need Google's contacts app to sync that.  Perhaps the
> Samsung contacts app won't use the Google contacts database, only the local
> contacts?

I don't know for certain, as the phone is not mine. I know over email.


> I find K-9 will only use Android contacts, rather than picking those up from
> recent emails, which is a bit annoying as I don't use them.

Yes, this is what he told me. And I understand that it would not work 
with the Samsung app, had to install the google one.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#154394

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-07-09 19:02, Theo wrote:
> 
> > I find K-9 will only use Android contacts, rather than picking those up from
> > recent emails, which is a bit annoying as I don't use them.
> 
> Yes, this is what he told me. And I understand that it would not work 
> with the Samsung app, had to install the google one.

Does the user perhaps only have phone numbers in their contacts?  In that
case I think K-9 won't have any email addresses to work with.  Maybe you
needed the Google contacts app to sync email contacts from your gmail
account?  ie this sounds like he's in the Google 'ecosystem' and is
complaining that the Samsung app isn't part of it.

Personally I would never want to have any kind of list of contacts
automatically scraped from my emails on my phone, because it would be full
of noise and be a pain when I wanted to make phone calls.

Theo

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#154395

On 2026-07-10 12:26, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-07-09 19:02, Theo wrote:
>>
>>> I find K-9 will only use Android contacts, rather than picking those up from
>>> recent emails, which is a bit annoying as I don't use them.
>>
>> Yes, this is what he told me. And I understand that it would not work
>> with the Samsung app, had to install the google one.
> 
> Does the user perhaps only have phone numbers in their contacts?  In that
> case I think K-9 won't have any email addresses to work with.  Maybe you
> needed the Google contacts app to sync email contacts from your gmail
> account?  ie this sounds like he's in the Google 'ecosystem' and is
> complaining that the Samsung app isn't part of it.
> 
> Personally I would never want to have any kind of list of contacts
> automatically scraped from my emails on my phone, because it would be full
> of noise and be a pain when I wanted to make phone calls.

No, it is not a pain at all. The dialup app knows very well what kind of 
contacts to show.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#154401

On 10.07.26 12:26, Theo wrote:
> Personally I would never want to have any kind of list of contacts
> automatically scraped from my emails on my phone, because it would be full
> of noise and be a pain when I wanted to make phone calls.

You seem not to understand how this really works in real life.
But it is your choice.

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita" (Augustinus)

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#154383

On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Ji,
> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
> 
> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install 
> the google contacts app to provide the API.
> 
> Curious!

Not at all!
Typical Android-chaos.

CU, Jörg

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita" (Augustinus)

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#154384

On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Ji,
>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>
>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install 
>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>
>> Curious!
> 
> Not at all!
> Typical Android-chaos.

BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.


-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita" (Augustinus)

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#154386

On 2026-07-09 19:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> Ji,
>>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>>
>>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install
>>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>>
>>> Curious!
>>
>> Not at all!
>> Typical Android-chaos.
> 
> BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
> my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.

Because Samsung phones come with the Samsung contact app.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#154390

On 09.07.26 20:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-07-09 19:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> Ji,
>>>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>>>
>>>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install
>>>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>>>
>>>> Curious!
>>>
>>> Not at all!
>>> Typical Android-chaos.
>>
>> BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
>> my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.
> 
> Because Samsung phones come with the Samsung contact app

WTF should anyone buy a Samsung?

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita" (Augustinus)

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#154396

On 2026-07-09 22:21, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.07.26 20:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-07-09 19:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> Ji,
>>>>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install
>>>>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>>>>
>>>>> Curious!
>>>>
>>>> Not at all!
>>>> Typical Android-chaos.
>>>
>>> BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
>>> my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.
>>
>> Because Samsung phones come with the Samsung contact app
> 
> WTF should anyone buy a Samsung?
> 

Another Swiss :-P

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#154402

On 10.07.26 12:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-07-09 22:21, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.07.26 20:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-07-09 19:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>>> Ji,
>>>>>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install
>>>>>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curious!
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all!
>>>>> Typical Android-chaos.
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
>>>> my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.
>>>
>>> Because Samsung phones come with the Samsung contact app
>>
>> WTF should anyone buy a Samsung?
>>
> 
> Another Swiss :-P

The Spaniards are not very fluent in English.

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita" (Augustinus)

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#154410

On 2026-07-09, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2026-07-09 19:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> Ji,
>>>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>>>
>>>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install
>>>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>>>
>>>> Curious!
>>>
>>> Not at all!
>>> Typical Android-chaos.
>>
>> BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
>> my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.
>
> Because Samsung phones come with the Samsung contact app.

Unless they have botched it, the user should be able to install another
one and set it as default. With Android 15, I was able to install the
Fossify one. That said, I wasn't impressed when, as soon as I opened the
Google contacts app, I was presented with a "provide feedback" pop-up,
or what it was, that seemed to be a covert way to agree with some terms
of service or agreements...

At least on this system version, what I see is that there are several
stores, including "Phone storage" and "Phone storage (not visible by
other apps)". On a much older system on a Samsung device, I had no
trouble using the contacts defined on the Samsung contacts app from K-9
mail. On this one, it must be on the not "not visible by other apps"
phone storage (yes, I know, double negation is a no-no).

Fossify apps don't seem to be that complete to me, and may lack some
more basic features (I'm still baffled by how their Messages app lacks
enough encoding support to send SMS messages with extended charset
without halving the per message capacity), but at least they're free of
nagging annoyances like that Google feedback popup, and seem to be lean
enough.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#154412

On 2026-07-11 09:50, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-07-09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-07-09 19:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> Ji,
>>>>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>>>>
>>>>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install
>>>>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>>>>
>>>>> Curious!
>>>>
>>>> Not at all!
>>>> Typical Android-chaos.
>>>
>>> BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
>>> my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.
>>
>> Because Samsung phones come with the Samsung contact app.
> 
> Unless they have botched it, the user should be able to install another
> one and set it as default. With Android 15, I was able to install the
> Fossify one. 


Of course you can. But if one buys a Samsung phone, which is a very 
successful brand that sells a lot of phones, and it comes with the 
Samsung Contacts app installed, one assumes that it has been tested and 
that it works, always. And if not, I expect to be told, not having to 
find out.




-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#154419

Am 11.07.26 um 12:25 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2026-07-11 09:50, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> On 2026-07-09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> Because Samsung phones come with the Samsung contact app.
>>
>> Unless they have botched it, the user should be able to install another
>> one and set it as default. With Android 15, I was able to install the
>> Fossify one. 
> 
> 
> Of course you can. But if one buys a Samsung phone, which is a very 
> successful brand that sells a lot of phones, and it comes with the 
> Samsung Contacts app installed, one assumes that it has been tested and 
> that it works, always. And if not, I expect to be told, not having to 
> find out.

You should be always be very wary of proprietary software coming from a
manufacturer of Google-phones. Especially when proven solutions already
exist and are used by the rest of the Android-universe.

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita."

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#154432

Nuno Silva wrote:
> With Android 15, I was able to install the
> Fossify one. That said, I wasn't impressed when

Caring about privacy, I installed OpenContacts which I think is better than
the Fossify Contacts app, since OpenContacts ties to WhatsApp, Telegram &
Signal, in addition to whatever your default SMS app is (mine is pulsesms).


 *Open Contacts* 
 <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts/>
 <https://gitlab.com/sultanahamer/OpenContacts>

Below is a copy of what I wrote a few months ago on this newsgroup.

Fossify Contacts is apparently a nice replacement UI for managing
contacts. But apparently it still uses the standard Android
ContactsProvider. That means it uses the system SQLite contacts
database. Which means it uses the same storage model as the stock
Contacts app.

So if we add a contact in Fossify Contacts, it will appear in the
system contacts DB and that means any app with contacts permission
can read it.

Sigh.

The pre-2021 Simple Mobile Tools Simple Contacts Pro had a "local-only"
mode that stored contacts in its own internal storage, and it also
supported VCF import/export. But in my testing years ago, it worked
only with some dialers, not all.

Apparently Koler (dialer) + internal contacts is a minimalist dialer
that can maintain its own internal contacts list which works for
dialing. But it does not integrate with SMS/MMS apps (they won't see
the contacts), and it doesn't solve the VCF import/export need.

There's also an F-Droid Contacts (Privacy Friendly Apps project) which
stores contacts internally, but it too has no integration with
dialer/SMS apps unless the dialer supports custom contact sources
(most don't). VCF import/export exists, but without dialer/SMS
integration it's not enough.

There is also Secure Contacts, which adds encrypted local storage with
no system DB usage, but it too has no dialer/SMS integration that I
know of, and VCF support is limited.

What we need, for privacy, in Android 12 and up, is...
 a. No system contacts DB usage
 b. Dialer + SMS/MMS name resolution
 c. Usable UI
 d. VCF import/export for backup/restore
 e. No need for root as /data/data isn't accessible in Android 12+

The only contacts apps that I've found that meet the privacy
requirements are:
 1. DOpen Contacts (supports private storage + VCF import/export)
 2. Simple Contacts Pro (old version from before 2021)

If anyone knows of a modern FOSS contacts app that keeps everything
out of the system provider and supports VCF import/export and integrates
with dialer/SMS, I'd love to hear about it.
-- 
Usenet should be a discussion where everyone adds value to the topic.

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#154452

On 2026-07-13, Maria Sophia wrote:

> Nuno Silva wrote:
>> With Android 15, I was able to install the
>> Fossify one. That said, I wasn't impressed when
>
> Caring about privacy, I installed OpenContacts which I think is better than
> the Fossify Contacts app, since OpenContacts ties to WhatsApp, Telegram &
> Signal, in addition to whatever your default SMS app is (mine is pulsesms).
>
>
>  *Open Contacts* 
>  <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts/>
>  <https://gitlab.com/sultanahamer/OpenContacts>
>
> Below is a copy of what I wrote a few months ago on this newsgroup.
>
> Fossify Contacts is apparently a nice replacement UI for managing
> contacts. But apparently it still uses the standard Android
> ContactsProvider. That means it uses the system SQLite contacts
> database. Which means it uses the same storage model as the stock
> Contacts app.
>
> So if we add a contact in Fossify Contacts, it will appear in the
> system contacts DB and that means any app with contacts permission
> can read it.

(What I get there is that I can add them to a store which isn't visible
by other applications. Now I have no idea if this is an app feature, an
Android feature or an Android modification by the phone manufacturer...)

>
> Sigh.
>
> The pre-2021 Simple Mobile Tools Simple Contacts Pro had a "local-only"
> mode that stored contacts in its own internal storage, and it also
> supported VCF import/export. But in my testing years ago, it worked
> only with some dialers, not all.
[...]
>
> The only contacts apps that I've found that meet the privacy
> requirements are:
>  1. DOpen Contacts (supports private storage + VCF import/export)
>  2. Simple Contacts Pro (old version from before 2021)

(Isn't Simple Mobile Tools Simple Contacts{, Pro} what Fossify Contacts
was forked from?)

> If anyone knows of a modern FOSS contacts app that keeps everything
> out of the system provider and supports VCF import/export and integrates
> with dialer/SMS, I'd love to hear about it.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#154453

Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-07-13, Maria Sophia wrote:
> 
>> Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> With Android 15, I was able to install the
>>> Fossify one. That said, I wasn't impressed when
>>
>> Caring about privacy, I installed OpenContacts which I think is better than
>> the Fossify Contacts app, since OpenContacts ties to WhatsApp, Telegram &
>> Signal, in addition to whatever your default SMS app is (mine is pulsesms).
>>
>>
>>  *Open Contacts* 
>>  <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts/>
>>  <https://gitlab.com/sultanahamer/OpenContacts>
>>
>> Below is a copy of what I wrote a few months ago on this newsgroup.
>>
>> Fossify Contacts is apparently a nice replacement UI for managing
>> contacts. But apparently it still uses the standard Android
>> ContactsProvider. That means it uses the system SQLite contacts
>> database. Which means it uses the same storage model as the stock
>> Contacts app.
>>
>> So if we add a contact in Fossify Contacts, it will appear in the
>> system contacts DB and that means any app with contacts permission
>> can read it.
> 
> (What I get there is that I can add them to a store which isn't visible
> by other applications. Now I have no idea if this is an app feature, an
> Android feature or an Android modification by the phone manufacturer...)
> 
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>> The pre-2021 Simple Mobile Tools Simple Contacts Pro had a "local-only"
>> mode that stored contacts in its own internal storage, and it also
>> supported VCF import/export. But in my testing years ago, it worked
>> only with some dialers, not all.
> [...]
>>
>> The only contacts apps that I've found that meet the privacy
>> requirements are:
>>  1. DOpen Contacts (supports private storage + VCF import/export)
>>  2. Simple Contacts Pro (old version from before 2021)
> 
> (Isn't Simple Mobile Tools Simple Contacts{, Pro} what Fossify Contacts
> was forked from?)
> 
>> If anyone knows of a modern FOSS contacts app that keeps everything
>> out of the system provider and supports VCF import/export and integrates
>> with dialer/SMS, I'd love to hear about it.

Hi Nuno Silva,

I can tell from your response that you're thinking about this, so I will
provide a detailed answer, because none of this contacts stuff is
intuitive. There is no perfect solution yet, but I've found OpenContacts
the closest to a perfectly private contacts strategy for Android phones.

To answer your questions, as far as is documented, OpenContacts does not
use the Android ContactsProvider at all. Sultanahamer states this
explicitly in the project README on GitLab.
   "This app saves contacts in its own database separate from Android    
    contacts. This way no other app would be able to access contacts."

This means OpenContacts bypasses the entire ContactsContract/SQLite system
store and instead maintains its own internal database under the app's
private storage sandbox. 

Because of that:
 a. Contacts created in OpenContacts never enter the system-wide 
    content://contacts/ provider.
 b. Any app requesting READ_CONTACTS or WRITE_CONTACTS will see nothing, 
    because the system provider remains empty.
 c. The contacts are protected by Android's per-app storage isolation 
    (scoped storage), so only OpenContacts itself can read them.
 d. No OEM modifications (Samsung, Google, etc.) affect this, because 
    the app simply doesn't use the shared provider.

Historically, apps that used private storage couldn't integrate well with
dialers because dialers expect contacts to come from the system provider. 

OpenContacts works around this by:
 a. launching dialer/SMS/messaging apps via explicit intents,
 b. passing the phone number directly,
 c. letting the external app handle the action without needing access 
    to the contact record.

This is why OpenContacts can integrate with WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and
dialers without exposing its contact data.

So in terms of your original privacy criteria of a private store, no system
provider usage, VCF import/export and interoperability, OpenContacts
already satisfies all of them, although I'm still having issues with
incoming calls showing up as contacts with OpenContacts.

I think Fossify Contacts (which, yes, came from Simple Mobile Tools) is
"supposed" to solve that problem, but it's not a 1:1 replacement either.
-- 
Usenet allows kind intelligent good-hearted people to help each other out.

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#154456

Maria Sophia wrote:
> This is why OpenContacts can integrate with WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and
> dialers without exposing its contact data.

To that point, I started proving how OpenContacts works, but I ran into so
much of the horror that is Samsung's Android overlays, that I ended up
writing a new thread so as to not knock this particular thread off topic.

Given every darn phone-related app is a green handset icon & given the app
names are almost exactly the same, and given there are many layers to the
telephony stack, I was horrified when I dug deeper for Nuno just now.

 Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
 Subject: PSA: ADB investigation of Samsung's telephony stack 
          with dialers, messengers & contacts
 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 16:56:50 -0400
 Message-ID: <11367qi$2dui$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
-- 
Samsung drives me nuts. If it wasn't for the sd card, I'd buy a Pixel.

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#154398

Jörg Lorenz, 2026-07-09 19:30:

> On 09.07.26 19:26, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.07.26 18:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> Ji,
>>> Just found out that Samsung has its own contacts app.
>>>
>>> And if you want Thunderbird (K-9?) to use contacts, you have to install 
>>> the google contacts app to provide the API.
>>>
>>> Curious!
>>
>> Not at all!
>> Typical Android-chaos.
> 
> BTW: Why should anyone use proprietary software for contacts? My TB on
> my Pixel knows all contacts I have on my CardDAV-server at any time.

Any my TB on my Pixel does not even need a CardDAV server to access the
contacts which are on the *PHONE* already. I use DAVx5 to sync all
contacts with my CardDAV server, so *ALL* apps which need access to my
contacts have them on the phone using the official API for that after I
granted the permission.

The problem is, that Samsungs *custom* Android version cripples the
official APIs, so that only Samsung Apps work as expected. Blame Samsung
for that, not Android.


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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