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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #150712
| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, alt.comp.os.windows-10 |
| Subject | Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems |
| Date | 2025-09-25 04:40 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <10b2v6r$6aft$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <10asmu3$2mduv$1@dont-email.me> <10atkq3$2sgsa$1@dont-email.me> <10b11ke$3nsph$1@dont-email.me> <10b13nv$3oio3$1@dont-email.me> <10b2ndc$4c50$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
On Thu, 9/25/2025 2:27 AM, sms wrote:
> On 9/24/2025 8:45 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
>> sms,
>>
>>> LOL, you stated " Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10
>>> hardware."
>>>
>>> That is untrue. What is true is that it requires a workaround.
>>
>> Noipe, that statement is quite true.
>>
>> That you refuse Win 11's refusal (and force it) doesn't mean that it isn't a
>> refusal I'm afraid.
>>
>> And that refusal is what most users* will ever see when they press the
>> "upgrade to win 11" button.
>>
>> * the few technically inclined users like you excepted.
> Not sure what upside you see in lying, but whatever lights your board.
>
> I ran into this whole thing two weeks ago when my wife asked me to upgrade her HP laptop to Windows 11 from Windows 10 because she was having an issue running an application in Windows 10. TPM was not built into her laptop which is about four years old.
>
> Took me all of five minutes to a) Google the workaround, and b) perform it.
>
> Had I upgraded to Window 11 as soon as it was available, no workaround would have been required since Microsoft didn't even require TPM for Windows 11 until December 3, 2024, more than three years after it was launched, I just never bothered to do the upgrade sooner.
>
> Actually, it's the Mac that requires a much more complicated workaround to install the latest version of OS-X, using the OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I've done this too! See <https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1ilxd9o/how_to_install_macos_ventura_or_newer_on_an_older/>.
>
> Certainly I wish that Microsoft and Apple didn't make these upgrades require a workaround, but it's understandable that the hardware requirements change.
In Windows 11, use the Settings wheel from the Start Menu,
type "TPM" in the search box there. Win10 provides this information
as well, so either OS has a check for TPM type (if enabled in BIOS!) .
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/vmB9rsXy/TPM-BIOS-level-options.gif
The reason the BIOS (firmware) TPM emulation was created, is it
"costs zero dollars" to do it. At the time, the TPM on the left
costs $25 to add to the computer, and the price has shot through
the ceiling for the plugin one. The local computer store, no
longer stocks any plugin ones, as they know how a TPM that costs
half as much as a motherboard, would sell.
The machine on the right in that photo, has this in the BIOS menu,
in some security section. The BIOS (UEFI) firmware file, works with multiple
motherboards of the same family, and that is how the Plugin option
was offered, even though there is no place to plug in a TPM.
TPM (plugin) <=== It doesn't even have the PINS to plug this in!!!
TPM (firmware) <=== Using this currently for Secure Boot experiments
None <=== Your wifes laptop could be using this setting.
This may even have been the default on my machine.
If a machine is four years old, that's enough time for an fTPM to be present.
It doesn't cost anything, and it can use whatever Secure Enclave isn't pinned
off on your CPU. The AMD x86 processor, has an ARM single core enclave,
as an example of some baggage it has on board :-) I don't really have a good
history of Intel enclaves to offer -- the one that enabled playback of
BluRay 4K video discs, is pinned off on a number of 11th to 14th generation
processors, leaving fewer options as potential TPM surrogates there. But
Intel normally always has something up its sleeve, which is why I can't be
sure there isn't something added in there.
In one AMD laptop, AMD has placed a Pluton, but we have zero information
out here in the wild, concerning whether the Pluton appears in a picture
similar to the one I provided at the top. The Pluton AMD placed in the
laptop, is a Microsoft creation. And Microsoft has used Pluton in some
marketing materials, implying it isn't dead. (Even though it looks
pretty dead to me as a project.) That's the way it is with security
processors. Here today, gone tomorrow. The first gen TPM had some
bug/issue, requiring it to be flashed up, and maybe that's what you
find in a properly maintained TPM 1.4. The TPM 2.0 should be fine
out of the box, as far as issues of that sort go. When you buy a TPM
at the store for $25 to $75, that is already flashed to the current
interface level. You can flash a TPM 2.0 backwards to become a TPM 1.4,
but that's just an academic point showing how the internal (Infineon) firmware
affects it. The TPM is a processor, which is why it has a ROM inside it
and supports flashing for repairs.
If you mention the model details of the laptop, I'll try to look it up
for you.
Paul
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The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-19 14:47 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-09-19 20:42 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-20 10:39 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-20 14:12 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-09-20 19:26 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-09-20 15:31 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-20 17:34 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-21 22:17 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-22 14:11 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-22 22:17 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-19 22:08 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-20 06:38 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-20 22:36 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-21 15:39 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-22 05:23 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-22 15:58 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-22 21:40 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-23 00:09 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-23 22:33 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-24 02:19 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-24 06:25 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-24 16:55 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-23 10:12 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-23 16:12 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-23 19:50 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-09-24 08:15 +1200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-09-23 16:01 -0500
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-24 02:14 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-24 10:28 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-24 16:57 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-25 21:29 +1000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> - 2025-09-25 07:34 -0400
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-25 15:25 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 14:26 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 14:37 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-25 15:34 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-25 16:58 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 19:38 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-26 23:10 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-28 19:56 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-29 06:49 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-29 16:55 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-09-30 08:30 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-30 17:20 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-30 20:50 +1000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Smithwicks <user@nonsenseurl.com.invalid> - 2025-09-30 12:02 -0400
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-30 17:04 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-10-01 08:36 +1300
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-09-30 19:54 -0500
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-26 16:26 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-26 19:44 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-24 10:29 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-24 17:06 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-24 20:05 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-09-25 09:27 +1200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-09-24 18:41 -0500
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 08:59 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-25 16:07 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 09:11 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-25 16:31 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 19:26 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-26 16:30 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-24 22:09 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-26 16:34 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-26 23:10 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-23 22:33 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-24 02:12 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-24 06:19 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-24 17:05 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-20 11:00 +0200
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems (was: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems) Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-09-20 12:48 +0000
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems (was: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems) "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> - 2025-09-20 13:54 +0000
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems (was: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-20 16:17 +0200
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems (was: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-09-21 10:09 +1200
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-20 23:42 -0400
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems (was: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-21 09:51 +0200
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-23 13:51 +0200
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-09-24 08:18 +1200
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-09-23 17:38 -0500
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-24 08:39 -0400
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-09-23 21:01 +0000
Re: Some claims about full support for the major consumer operating systems "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 03:05 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2025-09-22 16:42 -0700
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-23 09:09 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-23 05:00 -0400
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-23 11:29 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2025-09-24 08:10 -0700
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-24 17:45 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2025-09-24 23:27 -0700
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 08:57 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2025-09-25 09:19 -0700
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-09-25 19:21 +0200
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-25 04:40 -0400
Re: Hey Troll Boy Arlen you lying piece of shit... (was: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems) Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-09-21 05:28 +0000
Re: Hey Troll Boy Arlen you lying piece of shit... (was: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-09-21 17:40 +1200
Re: Hey Troll Boy Arlen you lying piece of shit... Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-09-21 13:50 +0000
Re: Hey Troll Boy Arlen you lying piece of shit... Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-09-21 14:56 +0000
Re: Hey Troll Boy Arlen you lying piece of shit... Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-21 15:08 +0000
Re: The truth about full support for the major consumer operating systems Marion <marionf@fact.com> - 2025-09-26 16:39 +0000
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