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Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls

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  Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls RS Wood  <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-20 13:20 +0000
    Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-03-20 13:22 -0600
      Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-20 20:17 +0000
        Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-20 20:23 +0000
        Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls john <nospam@no.net> - 2014-03-20 13:32 -0800
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-20 23:20 +0000
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2014-03-21 01:08 +0100
            Usenet clients: knode, other RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-21 09:03 +0000
              Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> - 2014-03-21 07:58 -0500
                Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-21 15:26 +0100
                  Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-21 18:03 +0000
                  20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-21 20:52 +0000
                    Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-22 02:02 +0100
                      Re: 20 Years of September Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-03-29 16:47 +0200
                    Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-23 15:07 +0000
                      Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-23 16:10 +0000
                  Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-21 21:47 +0000
                    Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-22 10:46 +0100
                      Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-22 12:36 +0000
                Re: Usenet clients: knode, other "G. Paul Ziemba" <paul+usenet@w6yx.stanford.edu> - 2014-03-21 16:15 +0000
              Re: Usenet clients: knode, other john <nospam@no.net> - 2014-03-25 11:34 -0800
              Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> - 2014-04-04 13:36 +0000
                Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> - 2014-04-04 14:03 +0000
                  Re: Usenet clients: knode, other RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-04-04 15:14 +0000
                    Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> - 2014-04-05 10:25 +0000
            Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Chris Elvidge <chris@raspberrypi.mshome.net> - 2014-03-21 09:41 +0000
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-21 10:04 +0000
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-21 11:38 +0100
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-21 15:23 +0000
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-21 18:01 +0000
                Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2014-03-21 14:26 -0700
                  Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-22 03:06 +0000
                  Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-22 12:34 +0000
                    Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls "John" <j@j.j> - 2014-03-25 08:54 -0700
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-02 03:21 +0000
      Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-20 20:22 +0000
        Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-20 22:50 +0000
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-21 09:22 +0000
    Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-27 19:50 +0000

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#1986 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

RS Wood wrote:

> On 2014-03-21, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thursday 20 March 2014 22:32, john conveyed the following to
>> comp.misc...
>>
>>> Now I wish someone would rejuvenate KNode. Or at least fix some long
>>> standing bugs. What GUI usenet client are y'all using?
>>
>> KNode here.  Longstanding user.  It's got bugs - indeed - but I like
>> it's look & feel.  I've tried Pan - which definitely has more fans
>> than KNode - but I hate Pan.  Well, lately I'm not big a fan on
>> anything GTK- based anymore, except for GIMP.
>>
> 
> Not clear to me what you'd mean by 'rejuvenate.'  I thought it was in
> active development?  And I don't see immediately much of anything I wish
> it had in addition - it's got pretty decent filters, sorting, etc.
> Maybe better search?  I can only imagine they're hoping Nepomuk/Akonadi
> will take care of search on all KDE apps' behalf.  My only personal
> gripe is that when they went from KDE3 to KDE4 (I think), Knode lost the
> ability to cause the individual panels to float, or you could move them
> around.  I used to like somewhat non-traditional panel arrangements
> (groups in top left, messages on bottom left, and message viewer the
> entire right side, for example) and you can no longer do that.  I still
> get that functionality running an old SUSE distro in a VM.
> 

I thought it was dead for a few years now..? Looks like someone is keeping 
it buildable: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdepim/repository

My #1 gripe is window layout, size, panes do not get saved.

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#2248 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

* RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> [2014-03-21]:
> These days SLRN is my preference, though I've never liked the fact that
> once you've read a message, it's gone unless you "un-catch up" the
> group.  Other than that, SLRN + vim is very nice.

You don't have to uncatch-up the group. To see all messages, read and unread,
hit ESC+3+SPACE or ESC+4+SPACE to enter the group. You can then mark an
individual message unread by simply hitting "u".

regards,

s h e h u

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#2249 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

* Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> [2014-04-04]:
> * RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> [2014-03-21]:
>> These days SLRN is my preference, though I've never liked the fact that
>> once you've read a message, it's gone unless you "un-catch up" the
>> group.  Other than that, SLRN + vim is very nice.
>
> You don't have to uncatch-up the group. To see all messages, read and unread,
> hit ESC+3+SPACE or ESC+4+SPACE to enter the group. You can then mark an
> individual message unread by simply hitting "u".

Sorry that should have been ESC 3 SPACE or ESC 4 SPACE

regards,

shehu

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#2250 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

On 2014-04-04, Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> wrote:
> * Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> [2014-04-04]:
>> * RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> [2014-03-21]:
>>> These days SLRN is my preference, though I've never liked the fact that
>>> once you've read a message, it's gone unless you "un-catch up" the
>>> group.  Other than that, SLRN + vim is very nice.
>>
>> You don't have to uncatch-up the group. To see all messages, read and unread,
>> hit ESC+3+SPACE or ESC+4+SPACE to enter the group. You can then mark an
>> individual message unread by simply hitting "u".
>
> Sorry that should have been ESC 3 SPACE or ESC 4 SPACE
>
> regards,
>
> shehu

In 10+ years, I never knew that.  Very useful - thanks.  Wishe I'd
learned that trick before!

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#2262 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

* RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> [2014-04-04]:
> On 2014-04-04, Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> wrote:
>> * Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> [2014-04-04]:
>>> * RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> [2014-03-21]:
>>>> These days SLRN is my preference, though I've never liked the fact that
>>>> once you've read a message, it's gone unless you "un-catch up" the
>>>> group.  Other than that, SLRN + vim is very nice.
>>>
>>> You don't have to uncatch-up the group. To see all messages, read and unread,
>>> hit ESC+3+SPACE or ESC+4+SPACE to enter the group. You can then mark an
>>> individual message unread by simply hitting "u".
>>
>> Sorry that should have been ESC 3 SPACE or ESC 4 SPACE
>
> In 10+ years, I never knew that.  Very useful - thanks.  Wishe I'd
> learned that trick before!

Wherever you are within SLRN, there's always help when you touch "?"

regards,

s h e h u

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#1848

On 21/03/2014 00:08, Aragorn wrote:
> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users
> also use Thunderbird, but that one has the same problem: it's not a
> dedicated newsreader.
Why is that a problem?


-- 

Chris Elvidge
England

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#1849

On 2014-03-21, Chris Elvidge <chris@raspberrypi.mshome.net> wrote:
> On 21/03/2014 00:08, Aragorn wrote:
>> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users
>> also use Thunderbird, but that one has the same problem: it's not a
>> dedicated newsreader.
> Why is that a problem?

How good a toaster is your coffee pot?


-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 7th day of Discord in the YOLD 3180
A non-empty Hausdorff topological space is a continuous image of the unit
interval if and only if it is a compact, connected, locally connected
second-countable space.

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#1850

On 2014-03-21, Chris Elvidge <chris@raspberrypi.mshome.net> wrote:
> On 21/03/2014 00:08, Aragorn wrote:
>> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users
>> also use Thunderbird, but that one has the same problem: it's not a
>> dedicated newsreader.
>
> Why is that a problem?

I'm going to something like 2005 here, but what was happening then was
that all the development effort was going into the mail side of things,
not the newsreader side.

What I found in particular was that the offline news reading functionality
didn't work in the Mac flavour of Tbird.  When I did eventually persuade
that to sort-of work, it pull down the headers and I was supposed to
mark each and every post I was interested in to download the body.  There
was no "get the lot" function.

The idea of getting headers in a first pass and then the bodies you are
interested in was fine in the days of slow modems, but by the time I climbed
onto usenet modems were fast enough to grab the lot in one go, especially
in conjunction with my telco's practice of billing in 3 minute chunks
(3 minutes was plenty to get the lot).

This got worse with hotel wifi which could be bought in 30 minute chunks.
Nice fast speeds but half an hour wasn't enough to read and reply to a full
day's posts, so I wanted offline capability. Thunderbird failed totally
and absolutely miserably at that.

-- 
Paul Sture

"In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy
is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."

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#1859

Chris Elvidge <chris@raspberrypi.mshome.net> wrote:
> On 21/03/2014 00:08, Aragorn wrote:
> > Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users
> > also use Thunderbird, but that one has the same problem: it's not a
> > dedicated newsreader.

> Why is that a problem?

Typically non-dedicated newsreaders are like comparing a swiss-army
knife to a toolbox containing real tools that match the knife.

The knife's good in a pinch, but the tools just are not up to the same
caliber of the dedicated tools in the toolbox.

I.e., you get a "just good enough" newsreader, a "just good enough"
email reader, a "just good enough xyz".  But none of them are great.

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#1863

In message <t2etva-2va.ln1@raspberrypi.mshome.net> 
  Chris Elvidge <chris@raspberrypi.mshome.net> wrote:
> On 21/03/2014 00:08, Aragorn wrote:
>> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users
>> also use Thunderbird, but that one has the same problem: it's not a
>> dedicated newsreader.
> Why is that a problem?

Because nntp is about 747,412th on the list of priorities. It's a
*terrible* newsclient, but infinitely superior to Google Groups.

-- 
Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy.

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#1871

Lewis wrote:
> Chris Elvidge wrote:
>> Aragorn wrote:

>>> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users also use Thunderbird, but that
>>> one has the same problem: it's not a dedicated newsreader.

>> Why is that a problem?
>
> Because nntp is about 747,412th on the list of priorities. It's a
> *terrible* newsclient, but infinitely superior to Google Groups.

Features of Tb not found in many news clients:

  - format=flowed posting (albeit noncompliantly implemented in replies)
  - rewrap functionality in compose to solve other poster's f=f deficiency

I agree that Tb's developers are not news agent oriented; they think of 
Tb as a mail agent which can also do news.  It has no scoring, wildcards 
or regex for its weak filter function.

It has no combine and decode for even the mildest of binary function. 
It rates not only better than GG, but also better than OE, both of which 
have a history of great inexplicable popularity on usenet.


-- 
Mike Easter

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#1877

On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:26:07 -0700, Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid>
wrote:
>Lewis wrote:
>> Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>> Aragorn wrote:
>
>>>> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users also use Thunderbird, but that
>>>> one has the same problem: it's not a dedicated newsreader.
>
>>> Why is that a problem?
>>
>> Because nntp is about 747,412th on the list of priorities. It's a
>> *terrible* newsclient, but infinitely superior to Google Groups.
>
>Features of Tb not found in many news clients:
>
>  - format=flowed posting (albeit noncompliantly implemented in replies)
>  - rewrap functionality in compose to solve other poster's f=f deficiency
>
>I agree that Tb's developers are not news agent oriented; they think of 
>Tb as a mail agent which can also do news.  It has no scoring, wildcards 
>or regex for its weak filter function.
>
>It has no combine and decode for even the mildest of binary function. 
>It rates not only better than GG, but also better than OE, both of which 
>have a history of great inexplicable popularity on usenet.
>

 It's not inexplicable at all. It's all Microsoft's fault for
pandering to the 'Riff Raff'. :-)
-- 
Regards, J B Good

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#1886

On 2014-03-21, Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:
> Lewis wrote:
>> Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>> Aragorn wrote:
>
>>>> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users also use Thunderbird, but that one
>>>> has the same problem: it's not a dedicated newsreader.
>
>>> Why is that a problem?
>>
>> Because nntp is about 747,412th on the list of priorities. It's a
>> *terrible* newsclient, but infinitely superior to Google Groups.
>
> Features of Tb not found in many news clients:
>
>   - format=flowed posting (albeit noncompliantly implemented in
>   replies) - rewrap functionality in compose to solve other poster's
>   f=f deficiency

It might have been better to have never introduced 'format flowed', as
it is so often created in a broken form.

> I agree that Tb's developers are not news agent oriented; they think
> of Tb as a mail agent which can also do news.  It has no scoring,
> wildcards or regex for its weak filter function.
>
> It has no combine and decode for even the mildest of binary function.
> It rates not only better than GG, but also better than OE, both of
> which have a history of great inexplicable popularity on usenet.

Don't confuse "used by many people" with "popular".  Ignorance,
laziness, fear of making any changes to a fragile ineffable and
expensive device, being obliged to use someone else's computer, and
other psychological things, are involved.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#1981

"Whiskers" <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote in message 
news:slrnlir0qj.1nq.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net...
> On 2014-03-21, Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:
>> Lewis wrote:
>>> Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>>> Aragorn wrote:
>>
>>>>> Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users also use Thunderbird, but that one
>>>>> has the same problem: it's not a dedicated newsreader.
>>
>>>> Why is that a problem?
>>>
>>> Because nntp is about 747,412th on the list of priorities. It's a
>>> *terrible* newsclient, but infinitely superior to Google Groups.
>>
>> Features of Tb not found in many news clients:
>>
>>   - format=flowed posting (albeit noncompliantly implemented in
>>   replies) - rewrap functionality in compose to solve other poster's
>>   f=f deficiency
>
> It might have been better to have never introduced 'format flowed', as
> it is so often created in a broken form.
>
>> I agree that Tb's developers are not news agent oriented; they think
>> of Tb as a mail agent which can also do news.  It has no scoring,
>> wildcards or regex for its weak filter function.
>>
>> It has no combine and decode for even the mildest of binary function.
>> It rates not only better than GG, but also better than OE, both of
>> which have a history of great inexplicable popularity on usenet.
>
> Don't confuse "used by many people" with "popular".  Ignorance,
> laziness, fear of making any changes to a fragile ineffable and
> expensive device, being obliged to use someone else's computer, and
> other psychological things, are involved.
>
> -- 
> -- ^^^^^^^^^^
> --  Whiskers
> -- ~~~~~~~~~~

Exactly - at work, I have to use OE - it's crappy compared to tin at home, 
but it's only when I am at work that I have time to read newgroups.(things 
are getting slower here :)

Glad to say I have never used GG even after 25 years of newsgroup 
"consumption" :) Although I discovered this groups activity only recently, 
it is nice to see that participation in NNTP seems to be on the rise! 

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#2201

On 2014-03-20, john <nospam@no.net> wrote:
> Now I wish someone would rejuvenate KNode. Or at least fix some long 
> standing bugs. What GUI usenet client are y'all using?

I use slrn+emacs (I prefer the default slrn UI to gnus, and I'm not
sufficiently motivaed to configure gnus to work how I want). It isn't
gui-based, but I'm fine with that (I also use irssi rather than a GUI
chat app).

I have three main gripes, two of which relate to scoring:
  * the regex library used by s-lang seems to be a rather primitive 
    subset of BREs. I haven't figured out if there is an easy way to 
    switch to using complete POSIX BREs, or even EREs (although that 
    would require modifications to my scorefiles).
  * The score-rule addition function doesn't have particualr options I'd like.
  * There's no easy way to view read articles in a group without marking 
    the whole group as unread.

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#1833

On 2014-03-20, tdk <forum.tdk@squte.com> wrote:

> As John Cartwright said: 
>
>> It's getting harder to operate an open forum in today's legal climate 
>
>
> If only it had been on Usenet instead. 

Be careful what you wish for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_v_Demon_Internet_Service

-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 6th day of Discord in the YOLD 3180
A non-empty Hausdorff topological space is a continuous image of the unit
interval if and only if it is a compact, connected, locally connected
second-countable space.

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#1837

In message <bp10vtFab4aU1@mid.individual.net> 
  Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2014-03-20, tdk <forum.tdk@squte.com> wrote:

>> As John Cartwright said: 
>>
>>> It's getting harder to operate an open forum in today's legal climate 
>>
>>
>> If only it had been on Usenet instead. 

> Be careful what you wish for.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_v_Demon_Internet_Service

Proof that the UK legal system can be even dumber than the US one.

-- 
"...and that's not incense"

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#1844

On 2014-03-20, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <bp10vtFab4aU1@mid.individual.net> 
>   Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2014-03-20, tdk <forum.tdk@squte.com> wrote:
>
>>> As John Cartwright said: 
>>>
>>>> It's getting harder to operate an open forum in today's legal climate 
>>>
>>>
>>> If only it had been on Usenet instead. 
>
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_v_Demon_Internet_Service
>
> Proof that the UK legal system can be even dumber than the US one.
>

Yank here.  I'm sorry to see it's a competition in which both nations have
pretense to 'win.'  

Anyway, I remember reading on some Slashdot post a few years ago that most
serious hardware hackers and pentest communities operate behind VPNs now
because of fears of legal recrimination, etc.  It's too bad.  If the spooks
keep pushing, the really privacy-minded people will go back to BBS software and
modems that don't answer unless your number is on a white list.

I've been trying to build a dial-in server recently as an educational pasttime
- always wondered what it looked like on the other side of a PPP connection -
so I've been reading through old docs about Hayes modem command sets, SLIP
connection parameters, even BBS software like syncronet [1] and I'm reminded
not only how immensely fascinating this tech was but how easily it would lend
itself to a situation like the one I've described.

[1] http://www.syncro.net

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#2083

On 2014-03-20, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> From the «Usenet can sympathize» department:
> Title: The full-disclosure mailing list shuts down
> Author:
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 10:14:00 -0400
> Link: http://lwn.net/Articles/591045/rss
>
> John Cartwright, the administrator of the venerable full-disclosure
> security-oriented mailing list, has announced that it is shutting down. "The
> list has had its fair share of trolling, flooding, furry porn, fake exploits
> and DoS attacks over the years, but none of those things really affected the
> integrity of the list itself. However, taking a virtual hatchet to the list
> archives on the whim of an individual just doesn't feel right. That 'one of
> our own' would undermine the efforts of the last 12 years is really the straw
> that broke the camel's back."

It's back now, this time run by Fyodor (of nmap fame). It's really a new
list, but it has Cartwright's tacit approval.

http://nmap.org/mailman/listinfo/fulldisclosure

Since it's a new list, subscriptions do not carry over from the original.
You can subscribe to the new list at the url posted above.

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