Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.misc > #2242 > unrolled thread
| Started by | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-04-03 20:45 +0000 |
| Last post | 2014-04-09 17:56 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.misc
Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-04-03 20:45 +0000
Re:Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-04-05 10:29 +0000
Re: Re:Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-04-05 17:04 +0000
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future David Harmon <source@netcom.com> - 2014-04-05 11:35 -0700
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-04-05 19:47 +0100
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2014-04-06 01:31 -0300
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-04-06 18:49 +0000
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@hushmail.com> - 2014-04-06 14:14 -0500
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future "G. Paul Ziemba" <paul+usenet@w6yx.stanford.edu> - 2014-04-07 01:18 +0000
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-04-07 09:06 +0000
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-04-06 22:35 +0000
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-04-07 00:18 +0100
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-04-06 22:04 +0200
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-04-06 22:18 +0100
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 23:25 +0100
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-04-08 10:40 +0100
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-04-08 17:48 +0000
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-04-08 19:11 +0100
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-04-08 19:34 +0000
Re: Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-04-09 17:56 +0000
| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-03 20:45 +0000 |
| Subject | Salesforce.com guy says servers are done, cloud is future |
| Message-ID | <lhkha5$3r8$1@solani.org> |
From the «under ur bridge, trolln ur newzgroop» department: Title: RIP, the server. It’s time to breathe the air of cloud connection Author: Peter Coffee, Salesforce.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:30:09 -0400 Link: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OmMalik/~3/KXN2cls8pGU/ Podcast Download URL: http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/453612803.jpg Sometimes, it’s hard to tell when a novelty becomes a trend or a trend becomes the new normal. This is not one of those times. The era of the on-premise server is clearly behind us, with the cusp of change literally on our calendars. In just the past week, we’ve seen significant server-shedding events and announcements from Google[1], Box[2] and Amazon Web Services[3]. Even Microsoft[4] finally seems to get it: enabling people to work from anywhere is more important than keeping them leashed to a platform going nowhere. This is no longer just a matter of doing things a little more cheaply, or a little less painfully, by doing them in the cloud. It’s bigger than that. Today, running your business on private servers is on the same level of odd behavior as carrying scuba tanks to provide a private air supply. Does it give you more control of exactly what you breathe? Certainly, but can you make a business case for all that excess weight? Going forward, the notion of owning your own server farm is looking equally eccentric. Servers were a cost-effective stopgap during the period when processing power got cheaper, much more quickly than our planet-wide networks became pervasive and interoperable. The 1971 debut of Intel’s first microprocessor, the 4004, came three years before the word “internet” was introduced; the birth of the modern Internet’s TCP/IP protocol was still eleven years away, and that was seven cycles of Moore’s-Law processor improvement. Having your own room full of servers made sense, like having your own air dome on the surface of Mars: inside our little habitats, we could have pockets of breathable “air” of computation and connectivity, but outside it was still a near-vacuum. As early settlers on Planet Computing, we all got pretty skilled at charging up our air tanks and patching our space suits for those dangerous walks across the landscape from one dome of air to the next. Remember your brief episodes of “going online” with your dial-up modem? Over time, though, we’ve made the atmosphere of connectitvity and shared processing power much more breathable. We’ve even leapfrogged ourselves: as one CEO recently asked his facility manager, “We spent how much to put state-of-the-art Wi-Fi in this building? And I get more bandwidth on my 4G LTE smartphone?” [image 6][5] We’ve also changed, in a fundamental way, the kinds of workload that we perform. When business computing was automation of internal record management, data originated at a predictable pace; analysis was needed on a regular schedule. Owning a battery of servers that can handle today’s world of bursty, externally driven data would be like carrying tanks that are big enough to get you through a marathon run at a sprinter’s speed. Even if you can afford the cost, you rightly dread the unproductive burden. So far, furthermore, we’ve only talked about gross computational capacity. We haven’t even begun to discuss the more complicated tasks that we want to be able to perform, like real-time collaboration. When you own your own servers, collaboration requires you to simulate the sharing that a cloud makes completely straightforward. If something happens on Department X servers in one building, and something related happens on Department Y servers elsewhere, it takes a ziggurat of middleware to make it look as if a shared process is taking place in a shared space. This is more expensive, more failure prone, and can’t possibly be more effective than the real thing: an actual, single, concurrently accessible work product on the shared foundation of a cloud service provider. That could be any of several reputable innovators, but almost certainly will not be someone who’d rather sell you software to run on your own machines. Imagine a day when colonists on Planet Computing wake up to the news that the air is now dense enough to breathe. Would some people say, “I don’t know: I’m not sure I trust it”? Would some people strap on their air tanks, out of long-established habit, and say, “You go ahead and try breathing that stuff. I’m sticking with what I know”? Of course. Every new capability has its late adopters. But will those resolute tank-breathers be late to work, tired by their load, and preoccupied with watching their air gauges while others are sprinting ahead? Absolutely–and that’s what we see today in business, education, government, health care and every other institution. Those who shed the dead weight first get more done, sooner and better and at less cost. We live on a fully connected planet, surrounded by tasks that increasingly demand immediate scalable access to rich processing power–mediated by ubiquitous networks. No new company starts out with a budget line item of “buy servers”; even in the largest enterprises, few today would want to risk joining the hall of shame for managers who build over-budget and under-performing server farms, instead of marshalling modern cloud services to solve the problem. RIP, the server. You were what we needed when there was no alternative. You’re now a relic of a time that’s almost unrecognizable today; you represent a cost that’s unaffordable, and unreasonable, for all future time to come. Peter Coffee is VP for strategic research at salesforce.com, where he serves as a liaison with the IT and business community to define the opportunity and clarify customers’ requirements on the company’s evolving Salesforce1 Platform. Feature image from Thinkstock/wavebreakmedialtd[7]. Cloud image from Thinkstock/buchachon[8]. [image 9] [image 11][10] Related research and analysis from Gigaom Research: Subscriber content. Sign up for a free trial[12]. * 12 tech leaders’ resolutions for 2012[13] * The promise of SDNs in the enterprise[14] * Continuous delivery and the world of devops[15] [image 17][16][image 18] Links: [1]: http://gigaom.com/2014/03/25/and-bam-google-cuts-on-demand-prices-by-a-third-demos-live-migration-for-its-cloud/ (link) [2]: http://www.boxdev2014.com/ (link) [3]: http://gigaom.com/2014/03/26/and-here-are-those-aws-price-cuts-we-talked-about/ (link) [4]: http://gigaom.com/2014/03/27/office-for-ipad-available-today/ (link) [5]: http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/453612803.jpg (link) [6]: http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/453612803.jpg?w=708 (image) [7]: http://www.thinkstockphotos.com/image/stock-illustration-data-servers-resting-on-clouds-in-blue/172588046 (link) [8]: http://www.thinkstockphotos.com/image/stock-photo-cloud-computing-networking-concept/453612803 (link) [9]: http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=gigaom.com&blog=14960843&post=828910&subd=gigaom2&ref=&feed=1 (image) [10]: http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?iu=/1008864/Gigaom_RSS_300x250&sz=300x250&c=915030 (link) [11]: http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/ad?iu=/1008864/Gigaom_RSS_300x250&sz=300x250&c=915030 (image) [12]: http://research.gigaom.com/?utm_source=cloudutm_medium=editorial&utm_campaign=auto3&utm_term=828910+rip-the-server-its-time-to-breathe-the-air-of-cloud-connection&utm_content=gigaguest (link) [13]: http://research.gigaom.com/report/12-tech-leaders-resolutions-for-2012/?utm_source=cloudutm_medium=editorial&utm_campaign=auto3&utm_term=828910+rip-the-server-its-time-to-breathe-the-air-of-cloud-connection&utm_content=gigaguest (link) [14]: http://pro.gigaom.com/2012/11/an-overview-of-the-software-defined-networking-market/?utm_source=cloudutm_medium=editorial&utm_campaign=auto3&utm_term=828910+rip-the-server-its-time-to-breathe-the-air-of-cloud-connection&utm_content=gigaguest (link) [15]: http://pro.gigaom.com/2012/10/continuous-delivery-and-the-world-of-devops/?utm_source=cloudutm_medium=editorial&utm_campaign=auto3&utm_term=828910+rip-the-server-its-time-to-breathe-the-air-of-cloud-connection&utm_content=gigaguest (link) [16]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/OmMalik?a=KXN2cls8pGU:ZQErf-p6wow:yIl2AUoC8zA (link) [17]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/OmMalik?d=yIl2AUoC8zA (image) [18]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/OmMalik/~4/KXN2cls8pGU (image)
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-05 10:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lholu3$ji8$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #2242 |
I had a look at the article, and if you can choke your way past the breathless marketing-speak, you'll see that by server he's referring to dedicated, in-house servers being managed by your own staff. He's advocating outsourcing your server team. I love the delicious irony of hearing this guy say you replace your servers with cloud, as though "cloud" weren't just marketing whitewash for a technology that is basically just servers. I will also love the delicious irony of this guy being unable to do his job because his cloud provider has botched their configuration, flubbed a backup, or toasted its DNS, taking down his entire system. I know of an office that just standardized on Microsoft O365 (cloud office) and has had nothing but trouble since. They've had log-in errors, certificate conflicts, and many-hour system downtime. Worse, they can't just deal with it on their own anymore. Every issue requires a call to Microsoft Support, who struggles to get stuff fixed. I can appreciate some implementations of SaaS. I'm using Fruux.com for hosted calendar and addressbook (cardDAV, calDAV) with some success, but even that I'll be able to host locally when I learn a bit more. But outsourcing your entire business to some hosted solution? I hope the competition does that so I can crush them when their cloud starts to rain. Bwa ha ha ha ha.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-05 17:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <534037af$0$47859$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #2263 |
RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: > I love the delicious irony of hearing this guy say you replace your > servers with cloud, as though "cloud" weren't just marketing > whitewash for a technology that is basically just servers. This is because, for far too large a majority of the population, you can take some "tech", give it a new name (identical tech, just name change) and sell it to those folks over and over and over again and again, because they are so tech-illiterate they are unable recognize they are being sold the same thing with a new name year after year. Because the name changed, they think they just bought something new and different. It is the modern equivalent of the "There's a sucker born every minute" quote often attributed to PT Barnum, but maybe not actually said by him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Harmon <source@netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-05 11:35 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <Bu6dnVcNVPJf0N3OnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #2263 |
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 10:29:20 +0000 (GMT+00:00) in comp.misc, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote, >I will also love the delicious irony of this guy being unable to > do his job because his cloud provider has botched their > configuration, flubbed a backup, or toasted its DNS, taking down > his entire system. Speaking of which, have the Western Digital cloud users got access to their data restored yet? http://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/04/04/0142216
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-05 19:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <omv51b-hlf.ln1@squidward.local.dionic.net> |
| In reply to | #2263 |
On 05/04/14 11:29, RS Wood wrote: > I had a look at the article, and if you can choke your way past > the breathless marketing-speak, you'll see that by server he's > referring to dedicated, in-house servers being managed by your > own staff. He's advocating outsourcing your server > team. A while back I compared my ESXi cluster at work with buying the nodes from Linode on demand. We were cheaper per guest VM, even allowing for my time and mine have better disk performance (I just did a study of that for other purposes). Amazon's offerings do not meet our requirements even if they might be cheaper.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-06 01:31 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87bnwfgjuh.fsf@nudel.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #2269 |
Actually, we're pretty used to having everything "in the cloud" already. Y'all remeber those diagrams of 25 years ago explaining the internet: Your desktop box -> some local host -> puffy little, impenetrable cloud -> some remote host. In the cloud means that your critical services or data are in that little impenetrable cloud, out of reach, out of sight and mind. But for most people, their cell phone service, banking services, data services are all like that. See all the stories of hanging on the phone for hours waiting for, then talking to, cookie-cutter droids, being passed from one to another, being handled in the end however the computer determines regardless of what those droids may have said. That's the cloud. That's the UI for The Cloud. Do you want your life there? Or your little business? I used to be able to drive to my ISP's NOC in 10 minutes and talk to the sys admin. After the dad demise of the founder and a merger, I now have to drive an hour an a half but I can *still* walk into the place where my email and other net stuff is being handled on short notice and talk to the resident demigod. I get horripiliations at the thought of having to deal with one of the megacorp ISPs should my ISP run aground or be scuttled by the big competitors. -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-06 18:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lhs7j9$rtl$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #2272 |
On 2014-04-06, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > I used to be able to drive to my ISP's NOC in 10 minutes and talk to > the sys admin. After the dad demise of the founder and a merger, I now > have to drive an hour an a half but I can *still* walk into the place > where my email and other net stuff is being handled on short notice > and talk to the resident demigod. > > I get horripiliations at the thought of having to deal with one of the > megacorp ISPs should my ISP run aground or be scuttled by the big > competitors. > Yeah, one thing broadband did: back when everyone was getting connected via dialup there were many, many small ISPs serving small localities. Broadband meant the only ones able to offer the faster speeds were telcos and cable providers, and the mom-and-pop ISPs disappeared. In the USA at least we handed the cable and telephone companies an oligopoly.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@hushmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-06 14:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <1_-dncSrBpozOtzOnZ2dnUVZ5vqdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #2273 |
On 2014-04-06, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: > On 2014-04-06, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: >> I used to be able to drive to my ISP's NOC in 10 minutes and talk to >> the sys admin. After the dad demise of the founder and a merger, I now >> have to drive an hour an a half but I can *still* walk into the place >> where my email and other net stuff is being handled on short notice >> and talk to the resident demigod. >> >> I get horripiliations at the thought of having to deal with one of the >> megacorp ISPs should my ISP run aground or be scuttled by the big >> competitors. >> > > Yeah, one thing broadband did: back when everyone was getting connected > via dialup there were many, many small ISPs serving small localities. > Broadband meant the only ones able to offer the faster speeds were > telcos and cable providers, and the mom-and-pop ISPs disappeared. In > the USA at least we handed the cable and telephone companies an > oligopoly. I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. On my 300 Baud modem I had subscription to CompuServe first. Next I got into BBSes of the era. That was a lot of fun and I still miss the experience of those early BBSes. Then QuantumLink hit for the Commodore 64. Again, that was a lot of fun. Still it was a modem world, mostly made up of tons and tons of independent young adults running their own BBS on their own PCs on standard phone lines, or you got into mass communication vis Quantum or CompuServe. After we got the 9600 & 14.4k modems the modern browser hit and slip/ppp services started to pop up everywhere. First I got ISDN and then ADSL. My ADSL was 1.54 Mb. I remember being wowed by being able to play a song from over the web rather than playing it from my local hard drive. That slip/ppp connection I first had was from slip.net. And of course I remember having an account with Netcom. They were big. Earthlink was big too. Of course AOL was insanely huge and popular. Take your pick they were everywhere. Where I am there are still some choices. But I really hate where this is going. The Cable TV operators want a lot of money. I have a nice connection but I don't subscribe to cable tv, just the Internet. With cable TV it is well past $150 where I am. And I just can't help but think about how awesome it was when it was just a bunch of BBSes and a $12.95 phone line. At 14.4k and just the text of a BBS it was just fine. Very fast for what was needed at the time. I had two lines. One for voice and one for data. I paid a little more than $30. If you add your smartphone bill and your home based broadband bill, how much do you now spend on Internet related access? I spend more than $250 a month easy. -- Marek Novotny A member of the Linux Foundation http://www.linuxfoundation.org git with the program
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "G. Paul Ziemba" <paul+usenet@w6yx.stanford.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-07 01:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lhsuck$2cqf$1@usenet.ziemba.us> |
| In reply to | #2280 |
Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@hushmail.com> writes: >If you add your smartphone bill and your home based broadband bill, how >much do you now spend on Internet related access? I spend more than $250 >a month easy. I don't use "mobile data" on my phone. That could change in the future, but at the moment I am surrounded by computers all day long so don't need yet another device. Monthly (myself + spouse): $12 Pageplus (Verizon MVNO) $24 Ting (Sprint MVNO) $58 Sonic DSL (incl 4 static IP addresses) $64 Pacbell (now called ATT) for 2 POTS lines Sonic now offers a bundled POTS+DSL for $46 or so, and it's another $10 for a few static IP addresses. So eventually I'll roll over one of the ATT POTS lines to Sonic and save about $34, for a total of $124. Never had cable TV. I noted since the 1970's as cable operators rolled out around the country that they delivered generally poor customer service and I resolved to avoid them. Around 2005 or so I installed the Fred Rogers Memorial Bowtie Array Antenna and an ATSC capture card, and it's been happy sailing since then. -- G. Paul Ziemba FreeBSD unix: 6:16PM up 70 days, 19:15, 15 users, load averages: 1.18, 1.51, 1.55
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-07 09:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <bqf84pF531fU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2280 |
On 2014-04-06, Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@hushmail.com> wrote:
> If you add your smartphone bill and your home based broadband bill, how
> much do you now spend on Internet related access? I spend more than $250
> a month easy.
Ouch.
I spend £25/mth on broadband (and I pay extra to get access to a UK
based service where you can actually talk to the geeks - Andrews & Arnold)
and £7/mth on smartphone service = £32 ~= $48. And I think that's robbery.
--
Today is Boomtime, the 24th day of Discord in the YOLD 3180
“Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime;
the sentence is death. There is no appeal, and execution is carried out
automatically and without pity.”
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-06 22:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5341d6a5$0$61246$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #2273 |
RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: > On 2014-04-06, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > > I used to be able to drive to my ISP's NOC in 10 minutes and talk > > to the sys admin. After the dad demise of the founder and a merger, > > I now have to drive an hour an a half but I can *still* walk into > > the place where my email and other net stuff is being handled on > > short notice and talk to the resident demigod. > > > > I get horripiliations at the thought of having to deal with one of > > the megacorp ISPs should my ISP run aground or be scuttled by the > > big competitors. > > > Yeah, one thing broadband did: back when everyone was getting > connected via dialup there were many, many small ISPs serving small > localities. Broadband meant the only ones able to offer the faster > speeds were telcos and cable providers, and the mom-and-pop ISPs > disappeared. In the USA at least we handed the cable and telephone > companies an oligopoly. We also had true competition at that time. Over dialup it was that anyone could be an ISP, they just needed a bunch of phone lines and a modem bank. Over DSL it was that the phone co. had to lease them the copper pair at non-discriminatory prices, so we also had real competition in DSL broadband. With both dialup, and DSL, the price per month for service began high, and quickly fell low due to the competition. Then the FCC was duped into changing the rules for fiber/cable such that the owners of the fiber/cable didn't have to lease it to competitiors at non-discriminatory prices. And what do we have now? Many folks have only one provider (monopoly) or at most two. Two which do not compete on price at all, and only barely compete on "features".
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-07 00:18 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20491b-e7d.ln1@squidward.local.dionic.net> |
| In reply to | #2296 |
On 06/04/14 23:35, Rich wrote: > Then the FCC was duped into changing the rules for fiber/cable such > that the owners of the fiber/cable didn't have to lease it to > competitiors at non-discriminatory prices. And what do we have now? > Many folks have only one provider (monopoly) or at most two. Two which > do not compete on price at all, and only barely compete on "features". > Rather the opposite to Britain where BT has most of the copper and had most of the local loop and backhaul. No-one bar a couple of cable TV companies can compete with the copper, but the government is encouraging (by force) LLU - or Local Loop Unbundling which allows other companies access to the telephone exchanges. BT have also had a kick from the government about FTTC (fibre to the [street] cabinet). In fact it's going in here and I live in a 1000-odd household village where the nearest big town is about 10 miles away - so I feel pretty lucky. We're rural, but south England is dense, so even "rural" is not totally in the middle of nowhere.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-06 22:04 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <86mwfyql6f.fsf@nine.des.no> |
| In reply to | #2269 |
Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> writes: > A while back I compared my ESXi cluster at work with buying the nodes > from Linode on demand. We were cheaper per guest VM [...] Amazon's > offerings do not meet our requirements even if they might be cheaper. I remember an article on this subject from an MMO company (Blizzard? I forget) a couple of years ago. The gist of it was, they had their own servers for the sustained load and used Amazon EC2 instances to absorb peaks, e.g. when they launched a new expansion pack. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-06 22:18 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <its81b-q5c.ln1@squidward.local.dionic.net> |
| In reply to | #2288 |
On 06/04/14 21:04, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> writes: >> A while back I compared my ESXi cluster at work with buying the nodes >> from Linode on demand. We were cheaper per guest VM [...] Amazon's >> offerings do not meet our requirements even if they might be cheaper. > > I remember an article on this subject from an MMO company (Blizzard? I > forget) a couple of years ago. The gist of it was, they had their own > servers for the sustained load and used Amazon EC2 instances to absorb > peaks, e.g. when they launched a new expansion pack. > > DES > That makes far more sense. The reason Amazon are no good for us is *every* server is individually important. Amazon EC2 have no "console" to the guest. Linode and ESX do. Occasionally I need the console to fix problems when RDP (win) or sshd go away. I'm not going to prat about attaching vdisks to recovery VMs :) But EC2 would be *very* good for test, dev or "lots more of the same" scenarios. Assuming you do not need IPv6 (unless that's changed recently).
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-07 23:25 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <lhv8kt$g0o$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #2242 |
RS Wood wrote: > From the «under ur bridge, trolln ur newzgroop» department: > Title: RIP, the server. It’s time to breathe the air of cloud connection > Author: Peter Coffee, Salesforce.com > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:30:09 -0400 > Link: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OmMalik/~3/KXN2cls8pGU/ > Podcast Download URL: http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/453612803.jpg > > Sometimes, it’s hard to tell when a novelty becomes a trend or a trend > becomes the new normal. This is not one of those times. The era of the > on-premise server is clearly behind us, with the cusp of change literally on > our calendars. So, what does that mean then, "The era of the on-premise server is clearly behind us, with the cusp of change literally on our calendars"? -- It may be that Nam's radical innovation is proposing an inverse to the stipulation operation, "destipulation" or "vaguification". If one has stipulated something which leads to undesirable consequences, one just destipulates it. -- Jim Burns, April 7, 2014
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 10:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <hpsc1b-3fv.ln1@squidward.local.dionic.net> |
| In reply to | #2305 |
On 07/04/14 23:25, Peter Percival wrote: > RS Wood wrote: >> From the «under ur bridge, trolln ur newzgroop» department: >> Title: RIP, the server. It’s time to breathe the air of cloud connection >> Author: Peter Coffee, Salesforce.com >> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:30:09 -0400 >> Link: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OmMalik/~3/KXN2cls8pGU/ >> Podcast Download URL: >> http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/453612803.jpg >> >> Sometimes, it’s hard to tell when a novelty becomes a trend or a trend >> becomes the new normal. This is not one of those times. The era of the >> on-premise server is clearly behind us, with the cusp of change >> literally on >> our calendars. > > So, what does that mean then, "The era of the on-premise server is > clearly behind us, with the cusp of change literally on our calendars"? For about 5 minutes. The "cloud" is a fad word of the moment. There have always been timeshare services since the dawn of computing and this is just a modern form of the same, perhaps made more universally usable by IP networks and the Internet. However, between various "cloud" disasters recently plus Edward Snowdon, I think a lot of businesses are looking very hard at not using the cloud. For example, I work for a british university. Use of Dropbox is specifically banned - because some parts of the university work with medical data (therefore highly confidential patient records). On the other hand, we use Office365 for our email - go figure! At home, I use Google Calendar - unlikely to "go away" and we do not have anything hugely sensitive in there. I run my own mailserver because I am NOT having that scanned by Google. I use Google Drive for only a few things and run my own fileserver for everything else.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 17:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <li1cpn$46n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #2306 |
On 2014-04-08, Tim Watts wrote: > At home, I use Google Calendar - unlikely to "go away" and we do not > have anything hugely sensitive in there. > > I run my own mailserver because I am NOT having that scanned by Google. > > I use Google Drive for only a few things and run my own fileserver for > everything else. I host my own fileservers and websites (small scale personal stuff). I've played around with setting up my own mailserver a few times, but have either had my ISP blocking port 25, or couldn't get google to recognize my mail as legitimate. The last one I set up can send mail to my gmail account, but can't even reach the spam folder of any other gmail accounts I've tried. So for the time being, I'm stuck using gmail's servers for email, then syncing it with my servers and reading it here with offlineimap and mutt.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 19:11 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <rmqd1b-587.ln1@squidward.local.dionic.net> |
| In reply to | #2310 |
On 08/04/14 18:48, Randy Westlund wrote: > On 2014-04-08, Tim Watts wrote: >> At home, I use Google Calendar - unlikely to "go away" and we do not >> have anything hugely sensitive in there. >> >> I run my own mailserver because I am NOT having that scanned by Google. >> >> I use Google Drive for only a few things and run my own fileserver for >> everything else. > > I host my own fileservers and websites (small scale personal stuff). > I've played around with setting up my own mailserver a few times, > but have either had my ISP blocking port 25, or couldn't get google > to recognize my mail as legitimate. The last one I set up can send > mail to my gmail account, but can't even reach the spam folder of > any other gmail accounts I've tried. > > So for the time being, I'm stuck using gmail's servers for email, > then syncing it with my servers and reading it here with offlineimap > and mutt. > You need a decent ISP and having a block of 8 static IPs helps which tends to mean the pool has not been pooped in by regular "dial up" users.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-08 19:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <bqj19pFgivrU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2311 |
On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:11:07 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: > On 08/04/14 18:48, Randy Westlund wrote: >> On 2014-04-08, Tim Watts wrote: >>> At home, I use Google Calendar - unlikely to "go away" and we do not >>> have anything hugely sensitive in there. >>> >>> I run my own mailserver because I am NOT having that scanned by >>> Google. >>> >>> I use Google Drive for only a few things and run my own fileserver for >>> everything else. >> >> I host my own fileservers and websites (small scale personal stuff). >> I've played around with setting up my own mailserver a few times, but >> have either had my ISP blocking port 25, or couldn't get google to >> recognize my mail as legitimate. The last one I set up can send mail >> to my gmail account, but can't even reach the spam folder of any other >> gmail accounts I've tried. >> >> So for the time being, I'm stuck using gmail's servers for email, then >> syncing it with my servers and reading it here with offlineimap and >> mutt. >> >> > You need a decent ISP and having a block of 8 static IPs helps which > tends to mean the pool has not been pooped in by regular "dial up" > users. +1. Same decent ISP! I run mailservers with no problem. -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-09 17:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <li41l1$c5t$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #2311 |
In article <rmqd1b-587.ln1@squidward.local.dionic.net>, Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> wrote: >On 08/04/14 18:48, Randy Westlund wrote: >> I've played around with setting up my own mailserver a few times, >> but have either had my ISP blocking port 25, or couldn't get google >> to recognize my mail as legitimate. The last one I set up can send >> mail to my gmail account, but can't even reach the spam folder of >> any other gmail accounts I've tried. >> >> So for the time being, I'm stuck using gmail's servers for email, >> then syncing it with my servers and reading it here with offlineimap >> and mutt. >> > >You need a decent ISP and having a block of 8 static IPs helps which >tends to mean the pool has not been pooped in by regular "dial up" users. I used to run my mail/web server on a box at home connected to business-grade cable-modem service. When I found I could get much faster residental-grade service and a VPS for a lower combined cost, I migrated to that and have run things that way ever since (think I'm on my third or fourth VPS provider now, but everything's been migrated from one host to the next). _/_ / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail) (IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting! \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]
Back to top | Article view | comp.misc
csiph-web