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[CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

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  [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria RS Wood  <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-07-02 18:08 +0000
    Re: [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-07-02 19:06 +0000
      Re: [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-07-02 21:05 +0100
        Re: [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-07-03 03:04 +0000
        Re: [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-07-03 19:21 +1000
      Re: [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-05 16:22 +0000
        Re: [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria PalDanger <PalDanger@mailinator.com> - 2014-07-06 12:52 +0000
          Re: [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-07 13:56 -0700

#3953 — [CM] Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

From the «das is nicht mehr gut» department:
Title: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
Author:
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:52:51 -0400
Link: https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/

Comments[1]

Links:
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7976267 (link)

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#3955

On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 20:31:40 +0200
Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

> On 2014-07-02, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> > From the «das is nicht mehr gut» department:
> > Title: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
> > Author:
> > Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:52:51 -0400
> > Link: https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/
> 
> Jabber, IRC, VPN and FTP (WZF? *) as well.
> 
> "Until we have a binding judgement, it is a sensible precaution to turn
> off hosted services where data from third parties is transmitted (like
> Jabber, IRC, VPN, FTP, TOR exit nodes, TOR RELAYS!! …); at least
> temporarily. Whether this judgement only applies to natural persons or
> legal persons as well cannot be said at this time, as the judgement is not
> yet available in writing."
> 
> * inadvertent typo, but "What Zee ..." seems appropriate, nicht wahr?
> 
> -- 
> Don't configure the network, program it!                    -- Nick Feamster

Seems to me like it's a good bet to assume TOR has been compromised
until further notice.  WZF!

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#3957

On 2014-07-02 20:06, RS Wood wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 20:31:40 +0200
> Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> 
>> On 2014-07-02, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>>> From the «das is nicht mehr gut» department:
>>> Title: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
>>> Author:
>>> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:52:51 -0400
>>> Link: https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/
>>
>> Jabber, IRC, VPN and FTP (WZF? *) as well.
>>
>> "Until we have a binding judgement, it is a sensible precaution to turn
>> off hosted services where data from third parties is transmitted (like
>> Jabber, IRC, VPN, FTP, TOR exit nodes, TOR RELAYS!! …); at least
>> temporarily. Whether this judgement only applies to natural persons or
>> legal persons as well cannot be said at this time, as the judgement is not
>> yet available in writing."
>>
>> * inadvertent typo, but "What Zee ..." seems appropriate, nicht wahr?
>>
>> -- 
>> Don't configure the network, program it!                    -- Nick Feamster
> 
> Seems to me like it's a good bet to assume TOR has been compromised
> until further notice.  WZF!

Surely data carriers will challenge this: they won't want to be
prosecuted when their corporate customers are busted for insider
trading, tax evasion, fraud, the kind of thing corporate customers do.
It may be that someone in Austria is seeing how far they can push the
relevant section of their legal code, but will telcos take it on trust
that such measures will only be used against hobbyists?

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#3959

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.misc.]
On 2014-07-02, Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> wrote:
> On 2014-07-02 20:06, RS Wood wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 20:31:40 +0200
>> Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2014-07-02, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>>>> From the «das is nicht mehr gut» department:
>>>> Title: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
>>>> Author:
>>>> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:52:51 -0400
>>>> Link: https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/
>>>
>>> Jabber, IRC, VPN and FTP (WZF? *) as well.
>>>
>>> "Until we have a binding judgement, it is a sensible precaution to
>>> turn off hosted services where data from third parties is
>>> transmitted (like Jabber, IRC, VPN, FTP, TOR exit nodes, TOR
>>> RELAYS!! …); at least temporarily. Whether this judgement only
>>> applies to natural persons or legal persons as well cannot be said
>>> at this time, as the judgement is not yet available in writing."
>>>
>>> * inadvertent typo, but "What Zee ..." seems appropriate, nicht
>>> * wahr?
>> 
>> Seems to me like it's a good bet to assume TOR has been compromised
>> until further notice.  WZF!
>
> Surely data carriers will challenge this: they won't want to be
> prosecuted when their corporate customers are busted for insider
> trading, tax evasion, fraud, the kind of thing corporate customers
> do.  It may be that someone in Austria is seeing how far they can
> push the relevant section of their legal code, but will telcos take
> it on trust that such measures will only be used against hobbyists?

A lot of places have exemptions from those laws for ISPs, but they
then have to comply with other regulations, including usually being
able to identify their users.

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#3960

On 3/07/2014 6:05 AM, Hils wrote:
> On 2014-07-02 20:06, RS Wood wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 20:31:40 +0200
>> Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-07-02, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>>>>  From the «das is nicht mehr gut» department:
>>>> Title: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
>>>> Author:
>>>> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:52:51 -0400
>>>> Link: https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/
>>>
>>> Jabber, IRC, VPN and FTP (WZF? *) as well.
>>>
>>> "Until we have a binding judgement, it is a sensible precaution to turn
>>> off hosted services where data from third parties is transmitted (like
>>> Jabber, IRC, VPN, FTP, TOR exit nodes, TOR RELAYS!! …); at least
>>> temporarily. Whether this judgement only applies to natural persons or
>>> legal persons as well cannot be said at this time, as the judgement is not
>>> yet available in writing."
>>>
>>> * inadvertent typo, but "What Zee ..." seems appropriate, nicht wahr?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Don't configure the network, program it!                    -- Nick Feamster
>>
>> Seems to me like it's a good bet to assume TOR has been compromised
>> until further notice.  WZF!
>
> Surely data carriers will challenge this: they won't want to be
> prosecuted when their corporate customers are busted for insider
> trading, tax evasion, fraud, the kind of thing corporate customers do.
> It may be that someone in Austria is seeing how far they can push the
> relevant section of their legal code, but will telcos take it on trust
> that such measures will only be used against hobbyists?
>

The decision has been made by a court in a criminal case. Unless the 
Austrian legal system is very unusual, data carriers would not be able 
to challenge it until and unless they themselves are prosecuted.

The prosecutor has managed to pull the wool over the eyes of some junior 
judge. It the accused appeals, it'll be reversed for sure.

Sylvia.

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#3970

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 20:31:40 +0200
> Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> 
>> On 2014-07-02, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>>> From the «das is nicht mehr gut» department:
>>> Title: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
>>> Author:
>>> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:52:51 -0400
>>> Link:
>>> https://network23.org/blackoutaustria/2014/07/01/to-whom-it-may-concern-english-version/
>> 
>> Jabber, IRC, VPN and FTP (WZF? *) as well.
>> 
>> "Until we have a binding judgement, it is a sensible precaution to turn
>> off hosted services where data from third parties is transmitted (like
>> Jabber, IRC, VPN, FTP, TOR exit nodes, TOR RELAYS!! …); at least
>> temporarily. Whether this judgement only applies to natural persons or
>> legal persons as well cannot be said at this time, as the judgement is not
>> yet available in writing."
>> 
>> * inadvertent typo, but "What Zee ..." seems appropriate, nicht wahr?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Don't configure the network, program it!                    -- Nick Feamster
> 
> Seems to me like it's a good bet to assume TOR has been compromised
> until further notice.  WZF!

TOR is a US DoD funded project.  I always thought it was best to presume
that TOR was compromised from the start.  Here's the rub though - if too
many TOR users are prosecuted for mundane shit they will eventually figure
out that it is compromised and move on to something that isn't controlled
by the US DoD.

Maybe that's not what you meant by "compromised" but this stuff just seems
so obvious to me.

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#3972

Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> TOR is a US DoD funded project.  I always thought it was best to presume
> that TOR was compromised from the start.  Here's the rub though - if too
> many TOR users are prosecuted for mundane shit they will eventually figure
> out that it is compromised and move on to something that isn't controlled
> by the US DoD.
> 
> Maybe that's not what you meant by "compromised" but this stuff just seems
> so obvious to me.

Tor is an open source project. You can read the sources yourself and see if
there are any backdoors implemented by those US DoD programmers.

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#3975

On 2014-07-06 12:52:40 +0000, PalDanger said:

> Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> TOR is a US DoD funded project.  I always thought it was best to presume
>> that TOR was compromised from the start.  Here's the rub though - if too
>> many TOR users are prosecuted for mundane shit they will eventually figure
>> out that it is compromised and move on to something that isn't controlled
>> by the US DoD.
>> 
>> Maybe that's not what you meant by "compromised" but this stuff just seems
>> so obvious to me.
> 
> Tor is an open source project. You can read the sources yourself and see if
> there are any backdoors implemented by those US DoD programmers.

Tell that to the SSL people!

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