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Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us

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  Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Dario Niedermann <dario@darioniedermann.it> - 2019-01-21 14:09 +0100
    Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-01-21 18:18 +0300
      Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-21 16:50 +0000
        Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-01-21 20:21 +0300
          Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-21 17:37 +0000
            Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-01-21 10:59 -0800
              Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-01-22 17:05 +0300
              Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Ronny Biggs <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-22 22:59 -0400
                Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-01-22 23:06 -0500
                  Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Kerry Imming <kcimming@pobox.com> - 2019-01-23 12:16 -0600
                    Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-23 18:47 +0000
                      Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Filip454 <filip454.grupydyskusyjne@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-24 03:38 +0100
                        Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-24 09:52 +0000
                  Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Filip454 <filip454.grupydyskusyjne@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-24 03:41 +0100
                [OT] overpopulation Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2019-01-23 04:07 +0000
                  Re: [OT] overpopulation gage@whereever.com - 2019-01-23 23:48 -0600
                    Re: [OT] overpopulation gage@whereever.com - 2019-01-24 00:03 -0600
                Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-23 10:21 +0000
                  Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-24 09:50 +0000
                Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-01-23 21:25 +0300
                  Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-23 18:45 +0000
                Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-01-23 21:36 -0400
                  Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-01-24 09:52 +0000
                Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-01-23 20:48 -0800
        Re: Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2019-01-21 17:03 -0500

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#17303 — Surveillance capitalism: the goal is to automate us

Nice article and interview with prof. Zuboff on surveillance capitalism:

<https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/20/shoshana-zuboff-age-of-surveillance-capitalism-google-facebook>

An interesting read even for those who are already clued in
about the matter.

A couple of extracts:

| These processes are meticulously designed to produce ignorance by
| circumventing individual awareness and thus eliminate any possibility
| of self-determination. As one data scientist explained to me, "We can
| engineer the context around a particular behaviour and force change
| that way [...]

| [...] the idea of "data ownership" is often championed as a solution.
| But what is the point of owning data that should not exist in the
| first place? All that does is further institutionalise and legitimate
| data capture. It's like negotiating how many hours a day a
| seven-year-old should be allowed to work, rather than contesting the
| fundamental legitimacy of child labour.

-- 
Dario Niedermann.                 Also on the Internet at:

gopher://darioniedermann.it/  <>  https://www.darioniedermann.it/

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#17304

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:09:23 +0100
Dario Niedermann <dario@darioniedermann.it> wrote:

> Nice article and interview with prof. Zuboff on surveillance capitalism:

> A couple of extracts:
> 
> | These processes are meticulously designed to produce ignorance by
> | circumventing individual awareness and thus eliminate any possibility
> | of self-determination. As one data scientist explained to me, "We can
> | engineer the context around a particular behaviour and force change
> | that way [...]


The article brings to mind the fact that essentially every company I do
business with is eager to convince me to enroll in auto-bill pay
systems, where they receive their money without the inconvenience of an
actual consumer verifying the costs, rates, and charges being applied
for the service.  My answer is a consistent "get fucked."  I read every
bill and bitch loudly when it does not correspond to what I was
expecting.

Once they automate consumerism we are finished.  Luckily, I'm not
convinced there's much of a chance of that happening, even in
consumer-happy USA.

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#17305

On 2019-01-21, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:09:23 +0100
> Dario Niedermann <dario@darioniedermann.it> wrote:
>
>> Nice article and interview with prof. Zuboff on surveillance capitalism:
>
>> A couple of extracts:
>> 
>> | These processes are meticulously designed to produce ignorance by
>> | circumventing individual awareness and thus eliminate any possibility
>> | of self-determination. As one data scientist explained to me, "We can
>> | engineer the context around a particular behaviour and force change
>> | that way [...]
>
>
> The article brings to mind the fact that essentially every company I do
> business with is eager to convince me to enroll in auto-bill pay
> systems, where they receive their money without the inconvenience of an
> actual consumer verifying the costs, rates, and charges being applied
> for the service.  My answer is a consistent "get fucked."  I read every
> bill and bitch loudly when it does not correspond to what I was
> expecting.

And, surprise, surprise, it's always wrong in their favour.


-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 21st day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
                      ~ Stercus accidit ~

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#17306

On 21 Jan 2019 16:50:00 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> And, surprise, surprise, it's always wrong in their favour.
> 

What was that Ray Bradbury classic short story where the human race is
long since deceased, but the alarm goes off every morning as always,
and the automatic toaster automatically pops out two slices of toasted
bread, etc. ... I still remember that story from my childhood, the sign
of a story that has really had an impact.

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#17307

On 2019-01-21, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On 21 Jan 2019 16:50:00 GMT
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> And, surprise, surprise, it's always wrong in their favour.
>> 
>
> What was that Ray Bradbury classic short story where the human race is
> long since deceased, but the alarm goes off every morning as always,
> and the automatic toaster automatically pops out two slices of toasted
> bread, etc. ... I still remember that story from my childhood, the sign
> of a story that has really had an impact.

"There Will Come Soft Rains".

-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 21st day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
                      ~ Stercus accidit ~

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#17308

On 01/21/2019 09:37 AM, Huge wrote:
> On 2019-01-21, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>> On 21 Jan 2019 16:50:00 GMT
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> And, surprise, surprise, it's always wrong in their favour.
>>
>> What was that Ray Bradbury classic short story where the human race is
>> long since deceased, but the alarm goes off every morning as always,
>> and the automatic toaster automatically pops out two slices of toasted
>> bread, etc. ... I still remember that story from my childhood, the sign
>> of a story that has really had an impact.
>
> "There Will Come Soft Rains".

Pretty much every Ray Bradbury story has an impact.  The one I always 
think of is 'The Strawberry Window'.

A TV thing from my youth that I can't forget involved a death race on 
foot from somewhere to somewhere else, the prize being the last empty 
land in the US -- a building lot in Yosemite Valley.  The racers moved 
through nothing but crowded halls, and anybody who knocked off a racer 
could assume his role and continue the race.

I've hated crowds ever since then and regard overpopulation as one of 
the greatest sins imaginable.

-- 
Cheers,
Bev
   "The Flat Earth Society has members all over the globe."
                                            -- Bob Henson

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#17310

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:59:55 -0800
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've hated crowds ever since then and regard overpopulation as one of 
> the greatest sins imaginable.

"No worries, we're here to help!"  
	-- drug-resistent bacteria and hemorrhagic virii

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#17311

On 21/01/2019 18:59, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>
> I've hated crowds ever since then and regard overpopulation as one of 
> the greatest sins imaginable.
>

So what should we do?  Should we start culling all the homeless people, 
then all jobless people,  then people who are a burden on the society 
such as disabled people and people on welfare, then we should let people 
in disaster zones to die and stop aid agencies to go to their 
assistance.  Is this what you are suggesting?  Perhaps we should stir up 
trouble in Africa so that various tribes can kill each other and we 
should provide them with weapons when they run out of theirs.

We need to start somewhere to reduce the global population.  What is 
your solution smart chap?

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#17312

Ronny Biggs  <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>We need to start somewhere to reduce the global population.  What is 
>your solution smart chap?

I don't know about him, but birth control has been absolutely amazing in
the US, in spite of many attempts to reduce availability.  Easy availability
of birth control around the world so there are far fewer unwanted children
will go a long way.

No need to kill anyone, because people will die of their own accord.  The
problem is we're making them faster than they are dying.
--scott

-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#17316

On 1/22/2019 10:06 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> The
> problem is we're making them faster than they are dying.

This is not true; birth rates have stabilized.  The world population 
will continue to increase until this stabilized rate propagates to old 
age, adding 3 to 4 billion people over the next 60 years in the process.

- Kerry

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#17319

On 2019-01-23, Kerry Imming <kcimming@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 1/22/2019 10:06 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> The
>> problem is we're making them faster than they are dying.
>
> This is not true; birth rates have stabilized.  The world population 
> will continue to increase until this stabilized rate propagates to old 
> age, adding 3 to 4 billion people over the next 60 years in the process.

The Earth is already overpopulated by around 2 or 3 times, and if the
Third World wish to bring their standard of living up to that of the
First World, many more times than that.

The Greens all seem to want people to reduce their standard of living
without ever mentioning population. Well, I'm not changing my standard
of living in any way in order that other people can have babies.


-- 
Today is Pungenday, the 23rd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
                      ~ Stercus accidit ~

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#17321

On 2019-01-23 19:47, Huge wrote:
> On 2019-01-23, Kerry Imming <kcimming@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 1/22/2019 10:06 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> The
>>> problem is we're making them faster than they are dying.
>>
>> This is not true; birth rates have stabilized.  The world population
>> will continue to increase until this stabilized rate propagates to old
>> age, adding 3 to 4 billion people over the next 60 years in the process.
> 
> The Earth is already overpopulated by around 2 or 3 times, and if the
> Third World wish to bring their standard of living up to that of the
> First World, many more times than that.
> 
> The Greens all seem to want people to reduce their standard of living
> without ever mentioning population. Well, I'm not changing my standard
> of living in any way in order that other people can have babies.
> 
> 

Overpopulation is the most stupid bullshit I have ever read about. 
Anyone who came up with such bullshit should fucking hang themselves xDDD

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#17328

On 2019-01-24, Filip454 <filip454.grupydyskusyjne@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2019-01-23 19:47, Huge wrote:
>> On 2019-01-23, Kerry Imming <kcimming@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/22/2019 10:06 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> The
>>>> problem is we're making them faster than they are dying.
>>>
>>> This is not true; birth rates have stabilized.  The world population
>>> will continue to increase until this stabilized rate propagates to old
>>> age, adding 3 to 4 billion people over the next 60 years in the process.
>> 
>> The Earth is already overpopulated by around 2 or 3 times, and if the
>> Third World wish to bring their standard of living up to that of the
>> First World, many more times than that.
>> 
>> The Greens all seem to want people to reduce their standard of living
>> without ever mentioning population. Well, I'm not changing my standard
>> of living in any way in order that other people can have babies.
>> 
>> 
>
> Overpopulation is the most stupid bullshit I have ever read about. 

Actually, your postings are "the most stupid bullshit I have ever read".


-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 24th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
                      ~ Stercus accidit ~

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#17322

On 2019-01-23 05:06, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Ronny Biggs  <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> We need to start somewhere to reduce the global population.  What is
>> your solution smart chap?
> 
> I don't know about him, but birth control has been absolutely amazing in
> the US, in spite of many attempts to reduce availability.  Easy availability
> of birth control around the world so there are far fewer unwanted children
> will go a long way.
> 
> No need to kill anyone, because people will die of their own accord.  The
> problem is we're making them faster than they are dying.
> --scott
> 

People will die because depopulation is a fact. Look at the sky. Rubbish 
is thrown at peoples' heads. Chemtrails are absolutely real. You can 
deny but you cannot change the future.

Plus here, in Poland, people burn junk in their furnaces, including 
empty bottles of deodorants and other toxic stuff. They practically kill 
themselves.

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#17313 — [OT] overpopulation

>>>>> Ronny Biggs <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>> On 21/01/2019 18:59, The Real Bev wrote:

 >> I've hated crowds ever since then and regard overpopulation as one
 >> of the greatest sins imaginable.

 > So what should we do?

[...]

 > We need to start somewhere to reduce the global population.  What is
 > your solution smart chap?

	One child per family.

	JFTR, there's no need to wait for the lawmakers to enact such a
	law, either: anyone can abide by the principle entirely on their
	own volition.  (Assuming they care for our planet; which is not
	something the majority of the world population seem to do.)

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  http://am-1.org/~ivan/

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#17324 — Re: [OT] overpopulation

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:07:07 +0000, ? Good Guy ?
<hello.world@example.com> wrote:

>On 23/01/2019 04:07, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>> One child per family. 
>
>Agreed to a certain extent but there will always be somebody who has 
>more than 1 child.  So what we need to sterilise the woman when she 
>comes to hospital to give birth for her second child.  Some force will 
>have to be used!!.

Agreed, Mein Fuher!

Heil Shmakov - And The Fourth Reich

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#17325 — Re: [OT] overpopulation

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 23:48:20 -0600, gage@whereever.com wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:07:07 +0000, ? Good Guy ?
><hello.world@example.com> wrote:
>
>>On 23/01/2019 04:07, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>>> One child per family. 
>>
>>Agreed to a certain extent but there will always be somebody who has 
>>more than 1 child.  So what we need to sterilise the woman when she 
>>comes to hospital to give birth for her second child.  Some force will 
>>have to be used!!.
>
>Agreed, Mein Fuher!
>
>Heil Shmakov - And The Fourth Reich

I read it wrong.

It seems I should have said -

Heil ? Good Guy ? !!

The Bringer of the Fourth Reich!

(Sorry, Ivan)

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#17314

On 2019-01-23, Ronny Biggs <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 21/01/2019 18:59, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've hated crowds ever since then and regard overpopulation as one of 
>> the greatest sins imaginable.
>>
>
> So what should we do? 

Remove tax incentives to have children for those in employment.

Remove benefit incentives to have children for those not in employment.

Gradually implement tax disincentives to having children.

Make contraception free and widely available.

Help Third World Countries become more prosperous; family sizes fall
with prosperity. Mandate that on reduced birthrates.

Bring in legal penalties for those who have more than one child each
(i.e., two per couple).

Wait.


-- 
Today is Pungenday, the 23rd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
                      ~ Stercus accidit ~

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#17326

On 2019-01-24, 😉 Good Guy 😉 <hello.world@example.com> wrote:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

Please don't. Usenet is a plain text medium.

[snippage]

> Look at Zimbabwe.  Do you think that country 
> will ever become prosperous?

It was prosperous before Mugabe.

-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 24th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
                      ~ Stercus accidit ~

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#17317

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:59:00 -0400
Ronny Biggs <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 21/01/2019 18:59, The Real Bev wrote:

> We need to start somewhere to reduce the global population.  What is 
> your solution smart chap?

No need to do anything.  Eat, drink, and enjoy life.   Nature will run its course, as it always does.  Then, in gallop the 9 horsemen of the apocalypse [1].


[1] hat tip to Huge

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