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Groups > comp.misc > #1911 > unrolled thread
| Started by | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-03-23 12:06 +0000 |
| Last post | 2014-03-23 19:23 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 165 — 42 participants |
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Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-23 12:06 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 12:11 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-23 14:43 +0000
Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-23 16:14 +0000
Re: ebooks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2014-03-23 18:09 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 19:21 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-23 20:34 +0000
Re: ebooks Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2014-06-13 14:14 -0400
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-13 21:44 +0100
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-13 16:53 -0400
Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-06-14 08:37 +0100
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-14 18:34 -0400
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-06-15 10:40 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-15 12:05 +0100
Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-06-15 11:20 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-15 12:37 +0100
Re: ebooks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2014-06-15 17:48 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-15 15:59 -0400
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-16 06:30 +1000
Re: ebooks Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2014-06-16 04:04 -0500
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-16 11:44 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-16 10:32 -0400
Re: ebooks Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2014-06-16 10:43 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-16 13:13 -0400
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-17 06:45 +1000
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-17 06:36 +1000
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-06-15 22:43 +0000
Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-06-15 23:26 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-16 22:01 +0100
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-15 06:27 +1000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 19:09 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 01:55 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 10:35 +0000
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-24 13:01 -0400
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-24 17:15 +0100
Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-03-24 15:07 +0000
Re: ebooks Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-24 17:13 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-24 13:07 -0500
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-24 13:28 -0500
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-24 21:48 +0100
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:57 +0000
Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-25 08:14 +1100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 00:01 +0000
Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 07:17 +1100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 23:44 +0000
Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 12:01 +1100
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-26 13:36 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-26 20:08 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-24 14:48 -0400
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 18:13 -0400
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 01:20 -0400
Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-03-25 05:49 +0000
Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-25 07:06 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-25 08:19 -0500
Re: ebooks Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-03-25 09:40 -0400
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-26 11:14 +1100
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-25 15:42 -0400
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-25 11:47 -0500
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 19:25 -0400
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-26 12:19 -0400
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 08:25 -0500
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-26 16:01 -0400
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-26 20:38 +0000
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-27 08:19 +1100
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 15:58 -0500
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-27 06:28 -0400
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-26 22:03 +0100
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 00:46 -0400
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-26 15:01 -0500
Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-26 20:57 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-27 13:23 +0000
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 17:48 +0100
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-27 08:26 -0500
Re: ebooks greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2014-03-27 14:55 +0000
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 10:05 -0500
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-27 11:55 -0500
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 14:25 -0500
Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-27 20:44 +0000
Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-28 01:38 +0000
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 22:37 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:52 -0400
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-28 16:07 +1100
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-28 10:52 -0500
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-28 11:57 -0500
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-28 14:41 -0500
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-28 21:27 +0000
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-28 17:02 -0500
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-28 23:46 -0400
Re: ebooks Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-02 01:32 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-04-02 14:28 +0000
Re: ebooks Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-07 05:32 +0000
Re: ebooks "John" <j@j.j> - 2014-04-17 16:36 -0700
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-04-02 07:31 -0800
Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-26 13:38 +0000
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 11:14 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 00:56 -0400
Re: ebooks Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2014-03-27 16:52 +0000
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 14:03 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:07 -0400
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 21:44 +0100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-26 13:51 +0000
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 09:22 -0800
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-26 13:54 -0500
Re: ebooks davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2014-03-27 03:41 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-03-27 07:36 -0400
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-28 03:40 -0400
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 17:59 +0100
Re: ebooks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-03-26 15:38 -0700
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-26 22:09 -0400
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 13:55 -0500
Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-28 02:27 +0000
Re: ebooks cb@bobby.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2014-03-28 10:42 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:12 -0400
Re: ebooks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-03-28 23:17 -0700
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-26 16:06 -0400
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 09:19 -0800
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-26 13:50 -0500
Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-26 20:00 +0000
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 13:30 -0800
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 15:51 -0500
Re: ebooks Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-03-26 13:09 -0600
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-26 19:23 -0400
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-27 08:12 +1100
Re: ebooks despen@verizon.net (Dan.Espen) - 2014-03-26 19:24 -0400
Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-26 23:40 +0000
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-27 06:36 -0400
Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-27 14:33 +0000
Re: Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 14:01 -0500
Re: ebooks rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2014-03-27 03:10 +0000
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-25 08:19 -0500
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-25 15:16 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 13:32 +0000
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 15:20 +0000
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-25 15:49 -0400
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 15:58 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 01:46 -0400
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-25 08:48 -0800
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 21:20 +0000
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-26 07:31 +1100
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 08:42 -0400
Re: ebooks Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-03-24 12:52 -0600
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-24 20:12 -0400
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-24 15:54 -0500
Re: ebooks Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org> - 2014-03-24 22:19 +0000
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-25 07:54 +1100
Re: ebooks scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-03-24 16:21 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 17:02 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-24 12:21 -0500
Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-24 19:50 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:48 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 23:42 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-25 15:07 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 23:40 +0000
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-26 21:57 +0100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-28 13:58 +0000
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-28 15:44 +0100
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 11:35 +1100
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-25 07:28 +1100
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:31 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 00:06 +0000
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 07:06 +1100
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-24 10:25 -0400
Re: ebooks Mike Sanders <mike@taco-shack.cow> - 2014-03-24 06:04 +0000
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-26 13:17 +0100
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-23 19:23 -0400
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| From | Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-26 13:09 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <QBFYu.130$XW7.79@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #2025 |
Charlie Gibbs wrote: > You hit one of my pet peeves. More and more I'm seeing people talking > about giving someone "free reign". I try to keep the origins of a > phrase from vanishing into the mists of time, so I take pains to point > out that it's "rein" as in horses, not "reign" as in monarch. > > As for punctuation, you can't go wrong listening to William Safire: > "Don't use commas, which aren't necessary." > 30 years ago I was "privileged" to sit on a curriculum review committee for one of the US service academies representing the Electrical Engineering Dept. Most of the committee could not understand why I fought so hard to not only preserve but to actually expand the role of the English and Literature departments. The railings here are by no means new. The battle to preserve communications skills has been waged for many years. -- Will Honea
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-26 19:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lgv9fo$g0r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #2025 |
On 03/26/2014 01:19 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > In article <lgs85i$n8f$2@dont-email.me>, Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com > (Peter Flass) writes: > >> Punctuation and spelling are still important. An otherwise good book >> is diminished by mis-spellings that spellcheckers can't catch - reign >> vs. rein vs. rain, for example. > > You hit one of my pet peeves. More and more I'm seeing people talking > about giving someone "free reign". I try to keep the origins of a > phrase from vanishing into the mists of time, so I take pains to point > out that it's "rein" as in horses, not "reign" as in monarch. > > As for punctuation, you can't go wrong listening to William Safire: > "Don't use commas, which aren't necessary." > Actually "reign" fits pretty well, although the /mot/ is otherwise. Sometimes the language is twisted to fit an idea, not just thru random error. -- Pete
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| From | "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-27 08:12 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <bpgu80Fmlt3U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2030 |
"Peter Flass" <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote in message news:lgv9fo$g0r$1@dont-email.me... > On 03/26/2014 01:19 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> In article <lgs85i$n8f$2@dont-email.me>, Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com >> (Peter Flass) writes: >> >>> Punctuation and spelling are still important. An otherwise good book >>> is diminished by mis-spellings that spellcheckers can't catch - reign >>> vs. rein vs. rain, for example. >> >> You hit one of my pet peeves. More and more I'm seeing people talking >> about giving someone "free reign". I try to keep the origins of a >> phrase from vanishing into the mists of time, so I take pains to point >> out that it's "rein" as in horses, not "reign" as in monarch. >> >> As for punctuation, you can't go wrong listening to William Safire: >> "Don't use commas, which aren't necessary." >> > > Actually "reign" fits pretty well, although the /mot/ is otherwise. > Sometimes the language is twisted to fit an idea, not just thru random > error. Yeah, that is particularly true with words like decimate which is now commonly used quite differently to its original meaning. Living languages change over time. I find that the common use of the word whom instead of who jarring, but its not actually wrong. And notice the now common approach of starting a sentence with the word SO, particularly in a question and answer sequence in the serious end of radio programs.
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| From | despen@verizon.net (Dan.Espen) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-26 19:24 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iczjkc4k6s.fsf@home.home> |
| In reply to | #2042 |
"Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> writes: > And notice the now common approach of starting a sentence > with the word SO, particularly in a question and answer sequence > in the serious end of radio programs. So, I think that's just plain nuts. -- Dan Espen
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| From | Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-26 23:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <aqm6j95998g82pu7deuqsct7041mkt2n4n@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2025 |
On 26 Mar 14 09:19:44 -0800, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >In article <lgs85i$n8f$2@dont-email.me>, Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com >(Peter Flass) writes: > >> Punctuation and spelling are still important. An otherwise good book >> is diminished by mis-spellings that spellcheckers can't catch - reign >> vs. rein vs. rain, for example. > >You hit one of my pet peeves. More and more I'm seeing people talking >about giving someone "free reign". I try to keep the origins of a >phrase from vanishing into the mists of time, so I take pains to point >out that it's "rein" as in horses, not "reign" as in monarch. Yes, this is the worst type of error. Obvious typos can be forgiven in a usenet posting. Even the odd 'loose' for 'lose' (and vice versa) type of error can be forgiven in this medium. It doesn't stop me from wincing at such "Schoolboy Howlers" though. > >As for punctuation, you can't go wrong listening to William Safire: >"Don't use commas, which aren't necessary." It's this last thing that often troubles me. What I find is that, when proof reading the sentence or paragraph, all too often I spot a seeming surplus of the dratted things. I tend to expunge them if there's any doubt. I usually resolve the issue by breaking up a long sentence with parenthesis (and if that fails, by the simple expedient of splitting it into two or more shorter sentences). The problem for me is that I don't always succeed in my efforts, usually because I'm trying to explain a complex process and get tangled up in an overly complex and protracted sentence. I'll often find myself up to my neck in 'sentence', rather like being in a deep hole. The advice to stop digging comes to mind when this happens and I'll find myself having to redo the resulting 'Franken-sentence' into smaller chunks. BTW, I reckon any decent editor could knock the above into better shape. -- Regards, J B Good
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| From | Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-27 06:36 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <5333ff27$5$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net> |
| In reply to | #2048 |
In <aqm6j95998g82pu7deuqsct7041mkt2n4n@4ax.com>, on 03/26/2014 at 11:40 PM, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> said: >BTW, I reckon any decent editor could knock the above into better >shape. There's no guaranty that the publisher will assign a decent editor, and Sturgeon's law applies. Remember *why* Knuth[1] wrote TeX? [1] Where's my Volume 7? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
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| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-27 14:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) |
| Message-ID | <lh1cs4$im3$3@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #2060 |
On 2014-03-27, Shmuel Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote: > In <aqm6j95998g82pu7deuqsct7041mkt2n4n@4ax.com>, on 03/26/2014 > at 11:40 PM, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> > said: > >>BTW, I reckon any decent editor could knock the above into better >>shape. > > There's no guaranty that the publisher will assign a decent editor, > and Sturgeon's law applies. > > Remember *why* Knuth[1] wrote TeX? > > [1] Where's my Volume 7? > I thought of Knuth/TeX when I read that old HAKMEM document wjwlsn linked to earlier this month: ------ | Anyway, here's a link to the archive, and one to the HAKMEM doc. Enjoy. | archive - http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/5460/browse | HAKMEM - http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6086 ----- Having to typeset that stuff on an electric typewriter looked like an exercise is masochism. And LaTeX/TeX produces stuff that's gorgeous even by modern standards.
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| From | "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-27 14:01 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) |
| Message-ID | <lh1shv$1ll$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #2070 |
"RS Wood" <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote in message news:lh1cs4$im3$3@solani.org... > On 2014-03-27, Shmuel Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote: >> In <aqm6j95998g82pu7deuqsct7041mkt2n4n@4ax.com>, on 03/26/2014 >> at 11:40 PM, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> >> said: >> >>>BTW, I reckon any decent editor could knock the above into better >>>shape. >> >> There's no guaranty that the publisher will assign a decent editor, >> and Sturgeon's law applies. >> >> Remember *why* Knuth[1] wrote TeX? >> >> [1] Where's my Volume 7? >> > > I thought of Knuth/TeX when I read that old HAKMEM document wjwlsn > linked to earlier this month: > I had heard about the famous HAKMEM AI memo in the past. So about 1996, I found a compressed archive containing *all* the pages of HAKMEM as individual tiff files. It was about 5 meg worth of data. I downloaded it using my 68K Mac and 28.8 modem with dial-up internet at the time. It took between 20 and 30 minutes using this equipment... but I *really* wanted it!!! I kept getting "dropped" and had to try three or four times before successfully downloading the thing. -- numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| From | rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-27 03:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <53339688$0$52759$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> |
| In reply to | #2025 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
+---------------
| Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com (Peter Flass) writes:
| > Punctuation and spelling are still important. An otherwise good book
| > is diminished by mis-spellings that spellcheckers can't catch - reign
| > vs. rein vs. rain, for example.
|
| You hit one of my pet peeves. More and more I'm seeing people talking
| about giving someone "free reign". I try to keep the origins of a
| phrase from vanishing into the mists of time, so I take pains to point
| out that it's "rein" as in horses, not "reign" as in monarch.
+---------------
The Eggcorn Database has a sizable entry on that one:
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/34/reign/
rein >> reign
-Rob
-----
Rob Warnock <rpw3@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 08:19 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lgrvpg$j7m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1967 |
On 25-Mar-14 02:06, Hils wrote: > The idea of editors (working for a publisher, not for the author) > being indispensable seems unique to the written word. AFAIK art > galleries do not hire someone to tell visual artists how to make > their work "better", ... Unique? Sounds roughly analogous to SQA. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 15:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnlj37ej.14r.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1972 |
On 2014-03-25, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote: > On 25-Mar-14 02:06, Hils wrote: >> The idea of editors (working for a publisher, not for the author) >> being indispensable seems unique to the written word. AFAIK art >> galleries do not hire someone to tell visual artists how to make >> their work "better", ... > > Unique? Sounds roughly analogous to SQA. > > S Art dealers certainly encourage their artists to make more of what sells, and most artists have a large stock of rejects - either hiding under the paint of another work, or taking up space. Works intended to sell in unlimited numbers, such as book illustrations or posters or prints, may go through many changes (dictated by the dealer or publisher) before being released. Individual original works often undergo changes. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 13:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnlj31aj.11lr.g.kreme@amelia.local> |
| In reply to | #1967 |
In message <lgr9t8$37o$1@speranza.aioe.org> Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> wrote: > On 2014-03-25 05:49, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:07:09 -0500 >> Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote: >> >>> Publishers also provide editing services that puts authors works >>> in a form that can be understood by the intended audience in the >>> expected context. That is a skill set that very few authors have >>> (even very good ones). Editors also rarely make good authors. >> >> True, but I see no reason that editors couldn't become freelancers >> working for authors on commission. > The idea of editors (working for a publisher, not for the author) being > indispensable seems unique to the written word. AFAIK art galleries do > not hire someone to tell visual artists how to make their work "better", > while the equivalent in (art) music has generally acted as little more > than a proofreader before handing the composer's manuscript to (in > pre-computer days) an engraver. > The development of music software has enabled many composers to > self-publish their music: IMO this hasn't led to a flood of poor-quality > music, but has given composers a route to the public which does not go > through a very conservative publishing industry. Anyone who thinks editors are not needed for writting has never written. (there's irony in there for you) -- The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 15:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lgs6re$6b0$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #1973 |
On 2014-03-25, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> wrote: >> The idea of editors (working for a publisher, not for the author) being >> indispensable seems unique to the written word. AFAIK art galleries do >> not hire someone to tell visual artists how to make their work "better", >> while the equivalent in (art) music has generally acted as little more >> than a proofreader before handing the composer's manuscript to (in >> pre-computer days) an engraver. > >> The development of music software has enabled many composers to >> self-publish their music: IMO this hasn't led to a flood of poor-quality >> music, but has given composers a route to the public which does not go >> through a very conservative publishing industry. > > Anyone who thinks editors are not needed for writting has never written. > (there's irony in there for you) Love the double-T. Your point is well made. I've seen it cut both ways in both music and writing. I've published three books: two books about Nicaragua (one, a best-seller) that took the traditional route of publishing company and multiple editors, and the Dictator's Handbook, that was professionally edited but self-published.[1] The comparison gave me a lot of insight into the business. The big publishers can - but don't necessarily - help bring out a better product. Both Nicaragua books were ruthlessly edited, revised, copy-edited, and checked by a team paid to do exactly that. They kicked back questions, hassled me about bad grammar or ambiguous text, and so on. The photo editors, on the other hand, lent close to no added value at all, to my surprise (I'm not sure they even adjusted the contrast on some pics printed in B/W). But that isn't a blanket kudo for the publishing industry. I've read too many books - fiction and non-fiction, even tech manuals - that have included astonishing typos, errors of fact, and worse. There is more than one tech book out there whose example code doesn't run, for example. Too many publishing houses are in a hurry to market and skip even the most basic steps: simply, business avarice outstrips basic due diligence and academic rigor. But those publishing houses take their cut, too. The Nicaragua guidebook retails for $20; the author earns $2 per book. The other $18 gets consumed, half by the publisher, half by the retailer. The $9 consumed by the publisher helps pay salaries for a whole gamut of employees, some of whom add value and some of whom don't. On that basis, self-publishing is forcing big publishers to ensure they add value. If they're too expensive or the money isn't worth it, they're history. On the other hand, self-publishing has allowed any schmuck with a copy of Microsoft Word to publish the most heart-rending drivel ever foisted upon humankind. And the new bookshops are stuffed with crap, incest/rape fantasies, and garbage that would never have seen the light of day under the old paradigm. There are some winners: there's more than one author who has self-published something of quality and swept the market. The Wool Trilogy by [2] by Hugh Howey is pretty damned good, for example. My Dictator's Handbook never caught the eye of big publishers because it's too niche a market these days, and the big publishers - in this new, shark-filled market - aren't taking any risks these days. They are all desperately seeking the next teenage vampire fantasy and hoping they stumble on the next Harry Potter. Good luck to the scientist that wants to write something technical: the market is nearly closed to all but the most hyperbolic stuff. Every self-respecting author needs a professional editor though, and the fact that you're no longer required to have one is a damned shame. It's too easy to publish garbage, and that makes it harder to differentiate the good from the bad. The music world isn't much different, as far as I can tell. The music industry has identified and promoted some real winners, but they've made a lot of money by banalizing the genre too: there's just so much shit out there to listen to, while great indy artists go undiscovered. Yes, self-promoting your indy-band gets you free of the MIAA mafia. But it's a hell of a lot harder to get noticed, too. [1] http://therandymon.com/index.php?/pages/writtenwork.html [2] www.thisiswool.co.uk
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 15:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lgs8i7$ts2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1977 |
On 03/25/2014 11:20 AM, RS Wood wrote: > > On the other hand, self-publishing has allowed any schmuck with a copy > of Microsoft Word to publish the most heart-rending drivel ever foisted > upon humankind. And the new bookshops are stuffed with crap, > incest/rape fantasies, and garbage that would never have seen the light > of day under the old paradigm. There are some winners: there's more > than one author who has self-published something of quality and swept > the market. The Wool Trilogy by [2] by Hugh Howey is pretty damned > good, for example. Bookstores don't usually carry self-published books, for that reason. -- Pete
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| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 15:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lgs93m$6b0$3@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #1980 |
On 2014-03-25, Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote: > On 03/25/2014 11:20 AM, RS Wood wrote: >> >> On the other hand, self-publishing has allowed any schmuck with a copy >> of Microsoft Word to publish the most heart-rending drivel ever foisted >> upon humankind. And the new bookshops are stuffed with crap, >> incest/rape fantasies, and garbage that would never have seen the light >> of day under the old paradigm. There are some winners: there's more >> than one author who has self-published something of quality and swept >> the market. The Wool Trilogy by [2] by Hugh Howey is pretty damned >> good, for example. > > Bookstores don't usually carry self-published books, for that reason. > I agree. I should've specified, by "bookshops" I am referring to things like Google's Play store, where you can buy ebooks. If you want to sell some piece of crap you banged together and didn't bother to spell-check, there's an easy path to getting your work published on Google's store. There are requirements, but very few, and if I recall, none related to quality of your prose.
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-27 01:46 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1403270144400.14705@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #1980 |
On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Peter Flass wrote: > On 03/25/2014 11:20 AM, RS Wood wrote: >> >> On the other hand, self-publishing has allowed any schmuck with a copy >> of Microsoft Word to publish the most heart-rending drivel ever foisted >> upon humankind. And the new bookshops are stuffed with crap, >> incest/rape fantasies, and garbage that would never have seen the light >> of day under the old paradigm. There are some winners: there's more >> than one author who has self-published something of quality and swept >> the market. The Wool Trilogy by [2] by Hugh Howey is pretty damned >> good, for example. > > Bookstores don't usually carry self-published books, for that reason. > I knew someone who had his book vanity published forty years ago, he'd go around the local independent bookstores, to try to get them to carry it. I think one bookstore did. Though oddly, there wsa a time (and maybe still) that the big chain record store downtown had an independent section, where it would seem musicians who sold their own CDs could get a slot. But I have no idea if they had some criteria or not. Michael
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| From | "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 08:48 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <1533.232T1895T5285720@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
| In reply to | #1977 |
In article <lgs6re$6b0$2@solani.org>, rsw@therandymon.com (RS Wood) writes: > I've seen it cut both ways in both music and writing. I've published > three books: two books about Nicaragua (one, a best-seller) that took > the traditional route of publishing company and multiple editors, and > the Dictator's Handbook, that was professionally edited but > self-published.[1] The comparison gave me a lot of insight into the > business. I'll have to check out the Dictator's Handbook. It sounds like an interesting adjunct to Machiavellii's The Prince - and I'd love to compare what it says with Stephen Harper's behaviour. > On the other hand, self-publishing has allowed any schmuck with a > copy of Microsoft Word to publish the most heart-rending drivel ever > foisted upon humankind. And the new bookshops are stuffed with crap, > incest/rape fantasies, and garbage that would never have seen the > light of day under the old paradigm. There are some winners: there's > more than one author who has self-published something of quality and > swept the market. The Wool Trilogy by [2] by Hugh Howey is pretty > damned good, for example. If there was ever any doubt as to the validity of Sturgeon's Revelation (90% of everything is crud), the Internet dispelled it long ago. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 21:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lgsrva$r5b$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #1982 |
On 2014-03-25, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: > I'll have to check out the Dictator's Handbook. It sounds like an > interesting adjunct to Machiavellii's The Prince - and I'd love to > compare what it says with Stephen Harper's behaviour. I was going to to write you offline but couldn't figure out your real email address (I thought it was ROT13 but nope). I've offered free copies of the ebook to Usenetters before on comp.misc - just send an email to info@dictatorshandbook.net and I'll be happy to send you one. Same goes for anyone else interested - standing offer.
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| From | "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-26 07:31 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <bpe7doF50jgU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1966 |
"Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in message news:20140325054909.075f1927b122401093f1eab9@eircom.net... > On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:07:09 -0500 > Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote: > >> Publishers also provide editing services that puts authors works >> in a form that can be understood by the intended audience in the >> expected context. That is a skill set that very few authors have >> (even very good ones). Editors also rarely make good authors. > > True, but I see no reason that editors couldn't become freelancers > working for authors on commission. In fact plenty of them do now, many of them have been sacked by publishers downsizing as a result of epublishing.
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| From | Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-25 08:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <533179c5$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net> |
| In reply to | #1945 |
In <5330744D.23831713@bytecraft.com>, on 03/24/2014 at 01:07 PM, Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> said: >Publishers also provide editing services that puts authors works >in a form that can be understood by the intended audience in the >expected context. That is a skill set that very few authors have >(even very good ones). I've read some hair-raising accounts by authors about their dealings with publishers. I've read of high profile authors whose work was rewritten behind their backs. I'd rather see the authors hire editors who are answerable to them rather than having editors inflicted on them by publishers that are answerable to nobody. BTW, editing is a skill set that very few editors have these days. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
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