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Re: The Hex concept

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  Re: The Hex concept "Dave" <dwickford@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-17 20:46 +0000
    Re: The Hex concept RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-18 08:59 +0000
      Re: The Hex concept Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-18 13:42 +0100
        Re: The Hex concept RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-18 19:02 +0000
          Software Bloat Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-18 19:19 +0000
            Re: Software Bloat Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-18 20:51 +0000
              Re: Software Bloat Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-18 14:49 -0700
                Re: Software Bloat Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-18 22:05 +0000
                  Re: USB interface RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-20 20:09 +0000
                    Re: USB interface Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-20 20:24 +0000
                    Re: USB interface Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-21 04:31 +0000
                      Re: USB interface RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-21 09:39 +0000
                        Re: USB interface RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-05-01 21:19 +0000
                          Re: USB interface Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2014-05-01 23:33 -0300
                          Re: USB interface Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-05-02 08:49 +0100
                            Re: USB interface Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-02 07:56 +0000
                              Re: USB interface Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-05-02 10:39 +0100
                                Re: USB interface Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-02 10:21 +0000
                                  Re: USB interface Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2014-05-02 19:30 +0100
                            Re: USB interface Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-02 08:23 +0000
                            Re: USB interface Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-02 09:58 +0100
                              Re: USB interface RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-05-02 09:14 +0000
                                Re: USB interface Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-02 11:06 +0100
                                  Re: USB interface Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-02 10:21 +0000
                                    Re: USB interface Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-02 22:35 +0200
                            Re: USB interface Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-05-02 12:25 -0600
                          Re: USB interface Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-05-02 13:23 +0300
                            Re: USB interface Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-05-02 15:29 +0200
                              Re: USB interface Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-05-06 16:47 +0300
                                Re: USB interface Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-05-08 16:55 +0200
                      Re: USB interface Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-21 15:20 +0000
                        Re: USB interface Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-22 00:41 +0000
                          Re: USB interface Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2014-03-21 22:44 -0500
                            Re: USB interface Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-22 00:49 -0700
                              Re: USB interface Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-22 09:46 +0100
                                Re: USB interface Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2014-03-22 12:42 -0500
                              Re: USB interface Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-22 15:17 +0000
                Re: Software Bloat RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-18 22:07 +0000
                  Re: Software Bloat Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-18 15:38 -0700
                    Re: Software Bloat Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-19 10:30 -0400
                      Re: Software Bloat Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-19 15:40 +0000
                        Re: Software Bloat Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-19 16:27 +0000
                    Re: Software Bloat Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-19 16:59 +0100
                  Re: Software Bloat polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-03-18 22:55 +0000
                    Re: Software Bloat Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-19 12:27 +0000
                      Re: Software Bloat Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-19 16:26 +0000
                      Re: Software Bloat RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-19 20:07 +0000

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#1796 — Re: Software Bloat

On 2014-03-19, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:38:46 -0700, Oregonian Haruspex
><bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2014-03-18 22:07:04 +0000, RS Wood said:
>
>>> How about the guys who imposed Microsoft's unloved "Ribbon" toolbar on
>>> us?  I consider myself a power user, but my efficiency was crippled by
>>> that stupid "innovation."
>
>>The woman who foisted that piece of crap off on the world was the same 
>>person who was in charge of the Windows 8 user interface.  I'd have her 
>>cleaning toilets if I was in charge at MS
>
> CLOGGED toilets.
>
> All day, and nothing but.
>
> I might even hire some "big eaters" just to go around the campus to
> make sure she has enough "work" to keep her busy all day.

<puts head over parapet>

I like the ribbon toolbar.

</>

And no, I'm not a SmallNFloppy employee, or shill. And I don't run their
products at home.


-- 
Today is Pungenday, the 5th day of Discord in the YOLD 3180
Celebrate Mojoday
A non-empty Hausdorff topological space is a continuous image of the unit
interval if and only if it is a compact, connected, locally connected
second-countable space.

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#1800 — Re: Software Bloat

In article <bots3pFka3lU1@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2014-03-19, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:38:46 -0700, Oregonian Haruspex
> ><bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On 2014-03-18 22:07:04 +0000, RS Wood said:
> >
> >>> How about the guys who imposed Microsoft's unloved "Ribbon" toolbar on
> >>> us?  I consider myself a power user, but my efficiency was crippled by
> >>> that stupid "innovation."
> >
> >>The woman who foisted that piece of crap off on the world was the same 
> >>person who was in charge of the Windows 8 user interface.  I'd have her 
> >>cleaning toilets if I was in charge at MS
> >
> > CLOGGED toilets.
> >
> > All day, and nothing but.
> >
> > I might even hire some "big eaters" just to go around the campus to
> > make sure she has enough "work" to keep her busy all day.
> 
> <puts head over parapet>
> 
> I like the ribbon toolbar.

Would you like to justify that.

-- 
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling 
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't 
ask questions on Usenet where the answers won't be carefully tailored to avoid
tripping your hair-trigger insecurities."                  - D M Procida, UCSM

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#1798 — Re: Software Bloat

On 2014-03-18, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-18 22:07:04 +0000, RS Wood said:
>
>> On 2014-03-18, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> If there is ever a Nuremburg-type trial at which the Excel developers
>>> are defendants, the judge will not accept the defense that they were
>>> just following orders.
>>> 
>> 
>> How about the guys who imposed Microsoft's unloved "Ribbon" toolbar on
>> us?  I consider myself a power user, but my efficiency was crippled by
>> that stupid "innovation."
>
> The woman who foisted that piece of crap off on the world was the same 
> person who was in charge of the Windows 8 user interface.  I'd have her 
> cleaning toilets if I was in charge at MS, but then again if I was in 
> charge at MS I'd have closed down operations years ago, auctioned off 
> the assets, and paid back the shareholders for the public good.

Ah, you mention revenge, and I've had a few ideas there.

Throwing them the crocs or shooting 'em isn't painful enough.  I want to
see them suffer extreme and prolonged frustration and boredom.

Making them use their own products in a "survive or go bankrupt" situation
could perhaps be rather satisfying.

-- 
Paul Sture

"In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy
is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."

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#1784 — Re: Software Bloat

On 18/03/2014 22:07, RS Wood wrote:
> How about the guys who imposed Microsoft's unloved "Ribbon" toolbar on
> us?  I consider myself a power user, but my efficiency was crippled by
> that stupid "innovation."

The ribbon in, for example, Office products, can be painful to use - 
especially when more or less conventional menus hang off the ribbon.

However, I have used a few non-MS products where the ribbon approach has 
been spectacularly effective. If the entire set of choices can easily be 
displayed in a ribbon, then it can work. If you end up with multiple 
ribbons, and using lots other ways of making choices, it becomes ghastly 
very quickly.

-- 
Rod

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#1792 — Re: Software Bloat

On 2014-03-18, polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/03/2014 22:07, RS Wood wrote:
>> How about the guys who imposed Microsoft's unloved "Ribbon" toolbar
>> on us?  I consider myself a power user, but my efficiency was
>> crippled by that stupid "innovation."
>
> The ribbon in, for example, Office products, can be painful to use -
> especially when more or less conventional menus hang off the ribbon.
>
> However, I have used a few non-MS products where the ribbon approach
> has been spectacularly effective. If the entire set of choices can
> easily be displayed in a ribbon, then it can work. If you end up with
> multiple ribbons, and using lots other ways of making choices, it
> becomes ghastly very quickly.

It all began to go down hill when interfaces became graphical and
someone thought WYSIWYG was a good idea (or even possible).  Although I
do have to admit that computer-generated graphs in colour were a lot
quicker to produce than the hand-drawn sort using ruler, protractor,
pen, and water-colours - once you'd grokked the quirks of the plotter
and its crayons or pens.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#1799 — Re: Software Bloat

In article <slrnlij39d.15c.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote:

> On 2014-03-18, polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 18/03/2014 22:07, RS Wood wrote:
> >> How about the guys who imposed Microsoft's unloved "Ribbon" toolbar
> >> on us?  I consider myself a power user, but my efficiency was
> >> crippled by that stupid "innovation."
> >
> > The ribbon in, for example, Office products, can be painful to use -
> > especially when more or less conventional menus hang off the ribbon.
> >
> > However, I have used a few non-MS products where the ribbon approach
> > has been spectacularly effective. If the entire set of choices can
> > easily be displayed in a ribbon, then it can work. If you end up with
> > multiple ribbons, and using lots other ways of making choices, it
> > becomes ghastly very quickly.
> 
> It all began to go down hill when interfaces became graphical and
> someone thought WYSIWYG was a good idea (or even possible).

No it didn't. WYSIWYG is a great improvement over the likes of Tex,
f'rinstance. Next you'll be saying how wonderful TECO was. Something
like Pages is just right.

-- 
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

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#1805 — Re: Software Bloat

On 2014-03-19, Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote:
> It all began to go down hill when interfaces became graphical and
> someone thought WYSIWYG was a good idea (or even possible).  Although
> I do have to admit that computer-generated graphs in colour were a lot
> quicker to produce than the hand-drawn sort using ruler, protractor,
> pen, and water-colours - once you'd grokked the quirks of the plotter
> and its crayons or pens.


Well, there are competing visions.  There's:

WYSIWYG: what you see is what you get
WYSIWYM: what you see is what you mean (Lyx is the best example)
WYSISTFU: what you see is shut the f*ck up - the one most developers
would probably be pleased to install, and the one a lot of users
deserve.

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