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Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining

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  Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-22 01:23 +0000
    Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-22 12:09 +0000
      Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-22 17:44 +0000
        Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com> - 2014-02-22 12:34 -0600
          Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-22 21:55 +0200
            Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com> - 2014-02-22 14:26 -0600
              Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-23 00:16 +0200
                Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com> - 2014-02-22 16:49 -0600
                Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 09:33 +0000
                  Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-23 12:54 +0200
            Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 09:33 +0000
              Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2014-02-23 16:46 -0600
                Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 23:21 +0000
                  Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-24 02:00 +0200
          Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-22 22:14 +0000
          Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 09:31 +0000
      Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-22 17:02 +0000
        Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-22 16:38 +0000
        Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2014-02-23 12:23 +0100
        Re: Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-23 10:38 -0500

#685 — Using supercomputers for crypto-coin mining

It apparently takes a lot of work to mine for crypto-currencies like BitCoin, or my personal
fave, DogeCoin. It's actually so much work now that using general purpose CPUs is completely
fruitless, and even GPU-based mining is falling out of favour. However, what if you had access
to a supercomputer? You could buy your own for around $45k:

"http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Cray-XD1-Supercomputer-System-5-Chassis-Rack-60-x-Opteron-2-2GHz-Super-Computer-/191068522653?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item2c7c92489d"

The problem with that option, beyond the initial cost, will be the expense of actually running and
maintaining the thing. (Do you have spare parts for a Cray just laying around?) Instead, what if you
could just "borrow" somebody else's supercomputer for a while? They're already paying for it
anyway, right? They probably won't even notice!

"http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/harvard-supercomputing-cluster-hijacked-to-produce-alt-cryptocurrency/"

Or maybe they will... uh oh.

--
Now frequenting comp.misc daily in a prolonged fit of netstalgia.

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#695

On 2014-02-22, wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> wrote:
> It apparently takes a lot of work to mine for crypto-currencies like
> BitCoin, or my personal fave, DogeCoin. It's actually so much work now
> that using general purpose CPUs is completely fruitless, and even
> GPU-based mining is falling out of favour. However, what if you had
> access to a supercomputer? You could buy your own for around $45k:
>
> "http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Cray-XD1-Supercomputer-System-5-Chassis-Rack-60-x-Opteron-2-2GHz-Super-Computer-/191068522653?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item2c7c92489d"
>
> The problem with that option, beyond the initial cost, will be the
> expense of actually running and maintaining the thing. (Do you have
> spare parts for a Cray just laying around?) Instead, what if you could
> just "borrow" somebody else's supercomputer for a while? They're
> already paying for it anyway, right? They probably won't even notice!
>
> "http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/harvard-supercomputing-cluster-hijacked-to-produce-alt-cryptocurrency/"
>
> Or maybe they will... uh oh.
>
> -- Now frequenting comp.misc daily in a prolonged fit of netstalgia.
>

This is maybe the equivalent of using the office computer over the
weekend to download a bunch of torrents - the machine wasn't being used
and the network is paid for so it's not exactly an additional expense.

I still wouldn't buy any special hardware to mine bitcoins or whatever
because I strongly suspect the whole house of cards is going to come
tumbling down.

Wouldn't mind the excuse to go play with a supercomputer for a bit
though, although I'd be embarrassed to say what I was doing.

"Calculating launch trajectories for satellites?"

"Uh, no.  generating a fictitious currency."

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#716

In message <lea41o$srj$1@solani.org> 
  RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> "Uh, no.  generating a fictitious currency."

*ALL* currencies are fictitious.

-- 
Vampires are [...] by nature as co-operative as sharks.  Vampyres are
just the same, the only real difference being that they can't spell
properly. --Carpe Jugulum

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#719

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 17:44:30 +0000, Lewis wrote:

> In message <lea41o$srj$1@solani.org>
>   RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>> "Uh, no.  generating a fictitious currency."
> 
> *ALL* currencies are fictitious.

All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible" 
currencies are stores of real value. 
-- 
Marek Novotny
A member of the Linux Foundation
http://www.linuxfoundation.org

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#725

Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:

> All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible"
> currencies are stores of real value.

The bitcoin is similar to collecting art or stamps. It has no inherent
value. Art can be enjoyed, you may get all giddy about having a complete
stamp collection; maybe some people get satisfaction from seeing a
perfect alignment of bits and being somehow intimately associated with
("owning") them.

The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land in
prison for tax evasion.

I would venture to say that a well managed national "fiat" currency has
more inherent, real value than gold and silver, whose industrial worth
doesn't justify the demand.


Marko

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#728

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:55:37 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:
> 
>> All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible"
>> currencies are stores of real value.
> 
> The bitcoin is similar to collecting art or stamps. It has no inherent
> value. Art can be enjoyed, you may get all giddy about having a complete
> stamp collection; maybe some people get satisfaction from seeing a
> perfect alignment of bits and being somehow intimately associated with
> ("owning") them.
> 
> The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
> them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land in
> prison for tax evasion.
> 
> I would venture to say that a well managed national "fiat" currency has
> more inherent, real value than gold and silver, whose industrial worth
> doesn't justify the demand.
> 
> 
> Marko

The zinc in the penny is worth less than a penny. The paper used to print 
your $1 note has the same value as one with many zeros behind it. Gold, 
Silver, diamonds, crude oil, sugar, cattle, wood, etc all have tangible 
value. A fiat currency has value as long as someone "thinks" it does. 
Industrial metals, wood, cattle, etc will always have value. Gold has 
served as THE currency of choice for thousands of years. When President 
Nixon decoupled Gold with the Dollar, he robbed every American of their 
right to their Gold. 

The dollar is not a well managed currency. In fact, it's not even a 
constitutional currency. 



-- 
Marek Novotny
A member of the Linux Foundation
http://www.linuxfoundation.org

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#740

Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:

> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:55:37 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
>> them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land in
>> prison for tax evasion.
>
> The zinc in the penny is worth less than a penny. The paper used to
> print your $1 note has the same value as one with many zeros behind
> it. Gold, Silver, diamonds, crude oil, sugar, cattle, wood, etc all
> have tangible value. A fiat currency has value as long as someone
> "thinks" it does.

I just told you the "fiat" currency is much more well-founded than you
think. And what I mentioned about taxes is not even the main factor that
creates value for the currency. Essentially, the government (through its
central bank) prints money and lends it to the industry expecting a
payback with interest in the same currency. The industry then has to
work hard to find the currency to service the debt (and make a profit on
the side). The government makes sure the payback is technically possible
by printing some extra money and hiding it in the markets like easter
eggs for the industry to fight for.

Yes, it's essential that everybody trust the currency. However, it's not
just a giant ponzi scheme. It's a real tool in the government's
carrot-and-stick game to keep the industry and services rolling.

> The dollar is not a well managed currency. In fact, it's not even a
> constitutional currency.

Many people are shocked when the Federal Reserve prints (or expresses
readiness to print) trillions of dollars. Those bold moves are essential
in keeping the cogs of the economy turning, and there's a real science
behind it all. It's subtle and scary, but going back to gold would make
the government incapable of addressing deflationary shocks. Your engine
needs oil, and money is that oil. If your engine gets bigger, you need
more oil, but the government can't create gold out of thin air. They
*can* create dollars out of thin air, which is the point.

Pumping all that cash into the economy all of a sudden was required
because the vast majority of the "cash" out there consists of virtual
cash created by the banking system. Since there was a major trust crisis
in the banking industry, the virtual cash dried out. It absolutely had
to be replaced by real cash so the economy wouldn't grind to a halt.

Eventually, trust may come back very quickly, we will see then if the
Federal Reserve has good enough tools to pump real cash out of the
economy as virtual cash floods back into the system. Some years back I
read an article where the Federal Reserve entertained the idea of bonds
of its own; it would "confiscate" cash by issuing attractive bonds and
hiding the cash for decades. So far, though, the recovery has been very
slow, which makes it easier for the Federal Reserve to prevent
hyperinflation from building up.


Marko

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#743

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 00:16:10 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:
> 
>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:55:37 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
>>> them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land
>>> in prison for tax evasion.
>>
>> The zinc in the penny is worth less than a penny. The paper used to
>> print your $1 note has the same value as one with many zeros behind it.
>> Gold, Silver, diamonds, crude oil, sugar, cattle, wood, etc all have
>> tangible value. A fiat currency has value as long as someone "thinks"
>> it does.
> 
> I just told you the "fiat" currency is much more well-founded than you
> think. And what I mentioned about taxes is not even the main factor that
> creates value for the currency. Essentially, the government (through its
> central bank) prints money and lends it to the industry expecting a
> payback with interest in the same currency. The industry then has to
> work hard to find the currency to service the debt (and make a profit on
> the side). The government makes sure the payback is technically possible
> by printing some extra money and hiding it in the markets like easter
> eggs for the industry to fight for.
> 
> Yes, it's essential that everybody trust the currency. However, it's not
> just a giant ponzi scheme. It's a real tool in the government's
> carrot-and-stick game to keep the industry and services rolling.
> 
>> The dollar is not a well managed currency. In fact, it's not even a
>> constitutional currency.
> 
> Many people are shocked when the Federal Reserve prints (or expresses
> readiness to print) trillions of dollars. Those bold moves are essential
> in keeping the cogs of the economy turning, and there's a real science
> behind it all. It's subtle and scary, but going back to gold would make
> the government incapable of addressing deflationary shocks. Your engine
> needs oil, and money is that oil. If your engine gets bigger, you need
> more oil, but the government can't create gold out of thin air. They
> *can* create dollars out of thin air, which is the point.
> 
> Pumping all that cash into the economy all of a sudden was required
> because the vast majority of the "cash" out there consists of virtual
> cash created by the banking system. Since there was a major trust crisis
> in the banking industry, the virtual cash dried out. It absolutely had
> to be replaced by real cash so the economy wouldn't grind to a halt.
> 
> Eventually, trust may come back very quickly, we will see then if the
> Federal Reserve has good enough tools to pump real cash out of the
> economy as virtual cash floods back into the system. Some years back I
> read an article where the Federal Reserve entertained the idea of bonds
> of its own; it would "confiscate" cash by issuing attractive bonds and
> hiding the cash for decades. So far, though, the recovery has been very
> slow, which makes it easier for the Federal Reserve to prevent
> hyperinflation from building up.
> 
> 
> Marko

You sure bought the typical bullshit they're selling. 



-- 
Marek Novotny
A member of the Linux Foundation
http://www.linuxfoundation.org

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#761

On 2014-02-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:55:37 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
>>> them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land in
>>> prison for tax evasion.
>>
>> The zinc in the penny is worth less than a penny. The paper used to
>> print your $1 note has the same value as one with many zeros behind
>> it. Gold, Silver, diamonds, crude oil, sugar, cattle, wood, etc all
>> have tangible value. A fiat currency has value as long as someone
>> "thinks" it does.
>
> I just told you the "fiat" currency is much more well-founded than you
> think. 

No, you asserted it without proof.

-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 54th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"

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#777

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>:

> On 2014-02-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>> I just told you the "fiat" currency is much more well-founded than
>> you think.
>
> No, you asserted it without proof.

Well, if I told you the earth orbited the sun, I couldn't prove it on
Usenet, either. However, I did elaborate my statements. Feel free to
provide counterarguments.


Marko

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#760

On 2014-02-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:
>
>> All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible"
>> currencies are stores of real value.
>
> The bitcoin is similar to collecting art or stamps. It has no inherent
> value. Art can be enjoyed, you may get all giddy about having a complete
> stamp collection; maybe some people get satisfaction from seeing a
> perfect alignment of bits and being somehow intimately associated with
> ("owning") them.
>
> The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
> them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land in
> prison for tax evasion.
>
> I would venture to say that a well managed national "fiat" currency has
> more inherent, real value than gold and silver, whose industrial worth
> doesn't justify the demand.

Jesus, do you actually *believe* this? Go away and read about the defaults
by the Argentinian and Russian governments and the hyperinflation in
Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe.


-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 54th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"

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#816

On 2/23/2014 3:33 AM, Huge wrote:
> On 2014-02-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:
>>
>>> All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible"
>>> currencies are stores of real value.
>>
>> The bitcoin is similar to collecting art or stamps. It has no inherent
>> value. Art can be enjoyed, you may get all giddy about having a complete
>> stamp collection; maybe some people get satisfaction from seeing a
>> perfect alignment of bits and being somehow intimately associated with
>> ("owning") them.
>>
>> The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
>> them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land in
>> prison for tax evasion.
>>
>> I would venture to say that a well managed national "fiat" currency has
>> more inherent, real value than gold and silver, whose industrial worth
>> doesn't justify the demand.
> 
> Jesus, do you actually *believe* this? Go away and read about the defaults
> by the Argentinian and Russian governments and the hyperinflation in
> Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe.

So you're saying you consider those to be examples of "well managed"
currencies?

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#821

On 2014-02-23, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 2/23/2014 3:33 AM, Huge wrote:
>> On 2014-02-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>>> Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible"
>>>> currencies are stores of real value.
>>>
>>> The bitcoin is similar to collecting art or stamps. It has no inherent
>>> value. Art can be enjoyed, you may get all giddy about having a complete
>>> stamp collection; maybe some people get satisfaction from seeing a
>>> perfect alignment of bits and being somehow intimately associated with
>>> ("owning") them.
>>>
>>> The national currencies have solid, real value: taxes are collected in
>>> them. You must come by a designated amount every year or you'll land in
>>> prison for tax evasion.
>>>
>>> I would venture to say that a well managed national "fiat" currency has
>>> more inherent, real value than gold and silver, whose industrial worth
>>> doesn't justify the demand.
>> 
>> Jesus, do you actually *believe* this? Go away and read about the defaults
>> by the Argentinian and Russian governments and the hyperinflation in
>> Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe.
>
> So you're saying you consider those to be examples of "well managed"
> currencies?

Hell, no. But the managers of those currencies had no more ability than
the managers of (say) USD or GBP.


-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 54th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"

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#823

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>:

> Hell, no. But the managers of those currencies had no more ability
> than the managers of (say) USD or GBP.

Why are people so concerned about the value of cash? Now, if you have
saved up a lot of cash and the currency collapses, you'll lose a lot.
But if you are so fortunate as to have a high net worth, surely you'll
diversify your portfolio into stock and real-estate. Maybe you'd
diversify into foreign currencies as well.

You can't play it safe in life. Cash is gnawed at by inflation in the
best of cases, the stock market may crash, housing prices might tumble
down, a war or act of God might destroy everything.

Even if they tied the currencies again to precious metals, how could you
trust the currency is really backed by the real thing? The Indians
actually buy physical gold in times of turmoil. The gold bars come
packaged in transparent plastic. But how can they know whats inside is
really gold?

No matter which way you cut it, you depend on the government doing the
right thing.


Marko

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#738

In message <I4OdnROw3cpTcJXOnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@supernews.com> 
  Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 17:44:30 +0000, Lewis wrote:

>> In message <lea41o$srj$1@solani.org>
>>   RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>>> "Uh, no.  generating a fictitious currency."
>> 
>> *ALL* currencies are fictitious.

> All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible" 
> currencies are stores of real value. 

Where are you going to use gold or silver currency?

Really, by that definition, bitcoin is real. There is a limited supply.
When all the coins are mined there will never be any more.

-- 
If you mixed vodka with orange juice and Milk Of Magnesia, would you get
a Philip's Screwdriver?

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#758

On 2014-02-22, Marek Novotny <mach2@hushmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 17:44:30 +0000, Lewis wrote:
>
>> In message <lea41o$srj$1@solani.org>
>>   RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>>> "Uh, no.  generating a fictitious currency."
>> 
>> *ALL* currencies are fictitious.
>
> All fiat currencies are fictitious. Gold, Silver and other "tangible" 
> currencies are stores of real value. 

Uh, no. They too only have value because believe they do. Their intrinsic
worth as industrial commodities is well below their worth as media of
exchange.


-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 54th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"

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#735

Food. It's the original currency because it's the only one with basic intrinsic value.
All others have value only because two or more people agree that they do, and at
the very root of that agreement is the need for food.

This is one of the reasons that I really like food.  :)

--
Now frequenting comp.misc daily in a prolonged fit of netstalgia.

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#742

From your headers:
>  	Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 17:02:22 -04-59 (UTC)
That's an odd time offset. Both my newsreader and Google Groups discard it and 
treat the message as sent at 17.02 UTC.

regards
tdk 
-- 
View this thread at http://squte.com/node/4713#comment-10816

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#778

On  00:00, wjwlsn conveyed the following to comp.misc...

> Food. It's the original currency because it's the only one with basic
> intrinsic value. All others have value only because two or more people
> agree that they do, and at the very root of that agreement is the need
> for food.
> 
> This is one of the reasons that I really like food.  :)

Anything that has so far been mentioned in this thread as having value 
is only valuable from the very narrow-minded human perspective.

Everything on this planet is valuable in one form or another, *except* 
for what is considered barter, as the concept of barter (and thus of 
currency) is a human creation.  Animals don't use barter.  

Some lifeforms do maintain symbiotic relationships with others, while 
other lifeforms are parasitic.  Barter (and by consequence currency) was 
initially intended to be an organized form of symbiosis, but has in the 
meantime - and quite rapidly after its inception - grown out to be more 
parasitic in nature, because the principle of unity is constantly being 
violated.

Unfortunately, the human species is still a long way from realizing that 
this system is bound to fail at some point because all resources on this 
planet are by definition finite.  

Communism was an attempt to break this parasitic nature, but ended up as 
yet another parasitic system where "all animals are equal, but some are 
more equal than others" (as George Orwell wrote in "Animal Farm").  
Capitalism is a system which actively promotes parasitism (and thus a 
violation of unity) and which thus doesn't feel that it needs to 
overcome the inequality, but because of its very basis in parasitism and 
its unavoidable tendency to lead to corporatism - which it has already 
long led to by now - it is itself also bound to fail.

Mankind has yet a lot to learn, but bad habits and established belief 
systems are hard to break.  Even though I see more people waking up to 
the fact that "the system" as it currently exists is simply wrong, there 
is still a huge difference between instinctively feeling that 
something's wrong, being able to identify the problem, and creating a 
new system in its stead.  Those are three significant steps in the 
evolution of social intelligence, and each of them is confronted with 
reactionary forces from The Powers That Be - who are only in positions 
of power because that's exactly where they want to be, and as such, they 
are only serving themselves, rather than society.  

I don't see any changes to the workings of society happening within my 
lifetime, but eventually mankind _will_ have to learn and evolve, and 
the system _will_ have to be changed.  There is no other possible 
outcome, unless one considers the total annihilation of intelligent life 
on this planet as a possibility.

-- 
= Aragorn =

         http://www.linuxcounter.net - registrant #223157

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#791

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 17:02:22 -04-59 (UTC), wjwlsn
<ibillwilson@gmail.com> wrote:

>Food. It's the original currency because it's the only one with basic intrinsic value.

Or land. It's the one thing they aren't making any more of, after all.

Unless you are Lex Luthor, of course.

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