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Groups > comp.misc > #2879 > unrolled thread
| Started by | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-05-19 15:44 +0000 |
| Last post | 2014-05-21 13:06 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 200 — 45 participants |
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Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-05-19 15:44 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-05-19 15:47 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-19 21:33 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-21 10:32 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-21 11:01 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-21 11:38 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-21 12:23 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn bill@server3.cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2014-05-21 12:40 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-21 15:59 +0300
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-21 13:16 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-21 18:38 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-21 13:18 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2014-05-21 13:46 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-21 21:22 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-21 15:03 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-21 15:20 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2014-05-22 21:40 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-05-22 08:20 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-05-22 18:14 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-05-23 07:21 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn pechter@tucker.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2014-05-21 19:11 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-21 20:18 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-21 21:16 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-21 22:19 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-05-21 23:02 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-05-22 05:42 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-22 19:22 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2014-05-22 19:26 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-05-22 17:52 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-22 18:02 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-23 02:02 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-05-23 13:16 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-23 06:51 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-23 09:35 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-05-23 19:55 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2014-05-23 09:49 -0600
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-23 19:24 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2014-05-23 14:23 -0600
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-24 16:19 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-23 07:32 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-23 07:09 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-23 09:36 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-23 19:00 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-23 15:21 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-23 21:58 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-05-24 00:34 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 10:22 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-23 17:35 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-24 10:20 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-05-24 21:41 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-05-24 00:33 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2014-05-24 10:39 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-24 09:28 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-24 13:13 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-05-24 10:51 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2014-05-24 18:50 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-24 20:05 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stan Barr <plan.b@dsl.pipex.com> - 2014-05-24 16:22 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-24 19:30 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-26 09:36 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-05-26 15:01 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-26 22:02 +0300
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-26 19:17 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-05-26 15:40 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-26 22:14 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2014-05-25 22:30 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-26 05:02 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 20:34 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-24 13:36 +0300
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 16:29 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-24 14:47 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2014-05-25 22:43 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-25 17:56 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-26 11:49 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-26 14:18 +0300
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2014-05-28 17:46 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-28 20:11 +0300
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-28 13:29 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-28 19:19 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-05-29 14:10 -0700
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-30 00:42 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-05-30 05:48 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2014-05-29 18:00 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-29 13:17 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-05-30 15:57 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-30 11:29 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-30 15:55 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-05-30 20:32 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-31 08:50 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-06-01 10:11 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-06-01 16:07 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-29 18:42 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Lawrence Statton <lawrence@perl.mx> - 2014-05-29 14:15 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-05-29 15:32 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-28 19:13 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-05-28 14:44 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-05-28 22:45 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:10 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-05-29 05:48 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-05-26 13:26 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-26 13:06 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 12:35 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Christian Corti <use@reply.to> - 2014-05-28 17:49 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-28 13:06 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "ratty" <ratty@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 14:16 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-30 04:47 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:41 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "ratty" <ratty@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 21:05 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2014-05-30 19:16 +0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-05-26 13:02 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2014-05-26 18:44 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-26 21:10 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2014-05-26 21:14 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-26 21:45 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-26 23:59 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-26 23:44 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2014-05-27 11:35 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-26 20:25 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-05-26 13:38 -0700
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-05-27 13:59 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-06-14 18:05 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-15 07:32 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-15 00:50 +0300
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-06-15 16:44 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-24 16:27 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-24 14:53 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "2ju" <2ju@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 06:59 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-24 22:44 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-29 13:40 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-29 20:01 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-05-24 19:01 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-05-25 00:58 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 13:17 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-05-26 17:08 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-25 10:17 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-22 09:54 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-22 15:56 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-05-22 14:07 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2014-05-23 12:44 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-21 08:20 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-05-22 17:58 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-23 00:00 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-22 18:12 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-23 09:50 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-23 18:37 +0300
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-24 16:59 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn bill@server3.cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2014-05-23 16:22 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-23 12:08 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-23 12:03 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-23 21:58 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-24 03:20 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-24 13:11 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-05-24 21:47 -0400
What constitutes being a Yankee? [was Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2014-05-29 14:58 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-24 15:59 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2014-05-23 23:41 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-24 04:09 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-05-24 21:52 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-05-24 21:31 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-05-25 14:34 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2014-05-23 16:15 +0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-05-21 14:15 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn bill@server3.cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2014-05-21 14:35 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn bill@server3.cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2014-05-21 14:38 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-05-21 08:22 -0800
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-05-21 15:43 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-05-22 15:54 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2014-05-21 07:07 -0700
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-05-21 15:23 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-19 23:10 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-19 22:54 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-20 19:52 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-20 23:22 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-05-20 11:10 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-05-20 11:56 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-05-20 12:32 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-05-20 15:24 -0500
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2014-05-21 14:08 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-21 16:06 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-20 13:50 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Rob Brown <brown@greenslade.gmcl.internal> - 2014-05-20 19:49 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-21 10:35 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-05-20 21:11 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-05-20 21:20 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-05-20 13:45 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 05:31 +1000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2014-05-21 09:35 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-05-20 15:14 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Rob Brown <brown@greenslade.gmcl.internal> - 2014-05-20 20:00 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-05-20 16:45 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-05-20 21:14 -0700
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-05-21 09:42 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-05-21 10:33 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2014-05-20 13:40 +0000
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-05-21 09:40 +0200
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-05-21 08:27 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-21 16:10 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-05-21 12:11 -0400
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-05-21 20:52 +0100
Re: Revamped PDP-11 in Brooklyn jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2014-05-21 13:06 +0000
Page 10 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10]
| From | Rob Brown <brown@greenslade.gmcl.internal> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 19:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnlnnce6.n3d.brown@greenslade.gmcl.internal> |
| In reply to | #2909 |
On 2014-05-20, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 May 2014 11:56:56 +0000, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>
>>
>> I used a PDP11/40 many years back when at uny. (~79/80) The boot
>> sequence was slightly easier - probably why its etched into my memory:
>>
>> 173000 LA (Load Address)
>> START
>>
>> and I'm pretty sure that was it.
Yes, having the ROM bootstrap loader simplified things a lot.
Get out your pdp11 Programming Card (you still have yours, right?).
I remember having the machine to myself when the disk controller was
broken, so I could use the "Paper Tape Operating System". IIRC, these
are the steps.
1. On a clean machine, toggle in the bootstrap loader from your
programming card. This would stay in memory if it didn't get
overwritten.
2. Put the Absolute Loader tape into the tape reader and execute
the bootstrap loader. The absolute loader would stay in memory
if it didn't get overwritten.
3. Whenever you needed to load a new program, put its tape in the
tape reader and execute the absolute loader.
4. If the absolute loader got overwritten, go to step 2.
5. If the bootstrap loader got overwritten, go to step 1.
Of course the machine had core memory, so everything stayed in memory
after power down. So you did not always have to start at step 1.
> Our first UNIX system was a 112kB 11/40 with two 2.4MB RK05s, in July
> 1975. DECWriter, a few serial terminals, no tapes.
Very similar to what we got, perhaps half a year earlier. We might
have had another RK05 or two. Eventually we got a TS03 tape drive.
I think we had six simultaneous users, but I'm having trouble
remembering where we put them.
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| From | Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 10:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <bu3dsdF8gbeU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2918 |
On 2014-05-20, Rob Brown <brown@greenslade.gmcl.internal> wrote: > On 2014-05-20, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote: >> On Tue, 20 May 2014 11:56:56 +0000, Gordon Henderson wrote: >> >>> >>> I used a PDP11/40 many years back when at uny. (~79/80) The boot >>> sequence was slightly easier - probably why its etched into my memory: >>> >>> 173000 LA (Load Address) >>> START >>> >>> and I'm pretty sure that was it. > > Yes, having the ROM bootstrap loader simplified things a lot. > > Get out your pdp11 Programming Card (you still have yours, right?). I still have mine. I gave my PDP11 (a 23+) to the (UK) National Computer Museum. -- Today is Sweetmorn, the 68th day of Discord in the YOLD 3180 "I do not believe in revealed religion — I will have nothing to do with your immortality; we are miserable enough in this life, without speculating on another." Lord Byron, 1778-1824, letter to Rev. Francis Hodgson, 1811
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| From | glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 21:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <llggdi$eh7$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #2909 |
In alt.sys.pdp11 Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote: (snip) >> 173000 LA (Load Address) >> START >> and I'm pretty sure that was it. > That's cheating. That would be the address of a ROM bootstrap progra. ROM > was too expensive for many! Mind, the RK bootstrap was very short; a bus > reset would zero cylinder, track and sector, then setting one bit would > start the transfer. Some years ago, I was using an 11/03 with an AED disk and disk controller, with no DEC disk drives. I believe the 11/03 knows how to do the 173000 itself, and the disk controller fakes the ROM as a branch to self instruction. The controller itself knows how to read the first block into RAM, (I presume at address 0) and then changes the branch (that isn't really in ROM) to branch to the block it loaded. The AED controller, as I remember it, writes IBM standard, not RX02 format, double density, and fits more on a disk. I now have an 11/23 with the MXV21 (non-DEC but writes DEC format) disk controller. The MXV21 has a "transparent bootstrap", again not an actual ROM. It only responds to these addresses after bus INIT, but then sends, as the processor fetches from 173000 and subsequent words, "CLEAR R0", "LOAD IMMEDIATE R1", (device address of the disk controller), asserts DMA request while returning "CLEAR PC". The disk controller DMA then writes 777 to location zero, lets the processor execute the CLEAR PC, then writes the appropriate disk blocks starting at address 000002. Then it writes a NOP to address 0, and off it goes. The MXV21 reads and writes RX01 and RX02 format, but unlike the DEC drives, has the ability to low-level format the disks. -- glen
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| From | Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 21:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <bu1v8uFpk4cU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2922 |
On Tue, 20 May 2014 21:11:14 +0000, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > The MXV21 reads and writes RX01 and RX02 format, but unlike the DEC > drives, has the ability to low-level format the disks. Sounds useful. I have an 11/23 (among others) but it just has two RL02s. I also have an 11/84 I haven't played with yet (but it's in good working order) although it has no peripherals. Also a Micro PDP-11 in unknown condition. -- Using UNIX since v6 (1975)... Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 13:45 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <0.a7bca66c2211d8773a6f.20140520134516BST.8761l0y5yb.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #2900 |
RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes: > On Mon, 19 May 2014 23:10:34 +0200 > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote: > >> That is very similar to the first PDP I worked on, and coincidentally that >> was 1978 as well. >> >> Ours started out with 64KB, two RK05 disks and 3 VT52 terminals. By >> Christmas 1979 we had upgraded it to 192KB, 6 terminals, another couple of >> RK05s and an RL02. No tape though, we did our backups to RK05s. > > <snippage> > > Fascinating to hear from someone who had experience with one of these > things. This picture of the sequence of byte-by-byte instructions for > booting the machine blows my mind. > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/14043526294/in/set-72157644327706146 > > Kind of puts into perspective PC users who are having trouble with > GRUB2 or think their BIOS sucks, etc. Here, I'll transcribe it: > > LA 010000 > DEP 012737 > 000005 > 177404 > 000777 > LA 010000 > START > WAIT 1 SEC > LA 0000000 > START > . P4 > > Wizardry, total wizardry. I'm in awe. I can shed some light on the magic... The numbers are octal. Oddly, for a 16=bit machine, octal made perfect sense because of the instruction format. The the top bit (in general) was 0/1 indicating word or byte operations. There were 8 addressing modes (using one actal digit), and there were 8 registers (again three bits) so you could decode instructions in your head when you saw them in octal. LA and DEP are control switches that alter what the numbers you key in do. LA means press the button/switch that lets you load an address. DEP means deposit. Here, a short program is loaded at address 010000 and the started. The program is just two instructions. 01 is a word move -- a two-address instruction. The source uses mode 2 on register 7, the destination uses mode 3 on register 7. R7 is the program counter, and mode 2 is "immediate2, while mode 3 is "indirect". R7 addressing is a little special in that the PC gets incremented, as one would want. Thus the instruction loads 5 (the next word) into location 177404 (the next word used as an address). That location is a control register for the disc controller. I think it determines the disc number to load from but I am not sure. The following instruction is just an endless loop: branch relative -1. I think it serves to give the controller time to do its stuff (hence the "wait 1 sec"). After that pause, the machine is told to start executing from address 0. I don't recall if there was a fixed boot loader at address 0, but I think not. I think the code is loaded from the numbered disk, but I am not sure. I've done this and related boot load sequences on earlier PDP-11s that had switches (all computers should have switches!) only three or four times in my life so it's all very vague, but there must be people who can do this with their eyes shut. -- Ben.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 05:31 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <bu1osrFsv60U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2906 |
"Ben Bacarisse" <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote in message news:0.a7bca66c2211d8773a6f.20140520134516BST.8761l0y5yb.fsf@bsb.me.uk... > RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes: > >> On Mon, 19 May 2014 23:10:34 +0200 >> Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote: >> >>> That is very similar to the first PDP I worked on, and coincidentally >>> that >>> was 1978 as well. >>> >>> Ours started out with 64KB, two RK05 disks and 3 VT52 terminals. By >>> Christmas 1979 we had upgraded it to 192KB, 6 terminals, another couple >>> of >>> RK05s and an RL02. No tape though, we did our backups to RK05s. >> >> <snippage> >> >> Fascinating to hear from someone who had experience with one of these >> things. This picture of the sequence of byte-by-byte instructions for >> booting the machine blows my mind. >> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/14043526294/in/set-72157644327706146 >> >> Kind of puts into perspective PC users who are having trouble with >> GRUB2 or think their BIOS sucks, etc. Here, I'll transcribe it: >> >> LA 010000 >> DEP 012737 >> 000005 >> 177404 >> 000777 >> LA 010000 >> START >> WAIT 1 SEC >> LA 0000000 >> START >> . P4 >> >> Wizardry, total wizardry. I'm in awe. > > I can shed some light on the magic... The numbers are octal. Oddly, > for a 16=bit machine, octal made perfect sense because of the > instruction format. The the top bit (in general) was 0/1 indicating > word or byte operations. There were 8 addressing modes (using one actal > digit), and there were 8 registers (again three bits) so you could > decode instructions in your head when you saw them in octal. > > LA and DEP are control switches that alter what the numbers you key in > do. LA means press the button/switch that lets you load an address. DEP > means deposit. Here, a short program is loaded at address 010000 and > the started. > > The program is just two instructions. 01 is a word move -- a > two-address instruction. The source uses mode 2 on register 7, the > destination uses mode 3 on register 7. R7 is the program counter, and > mode 2 is "immediate2, while mode 3 is "indirect". R7 addressing is a > little special in that the PC gets incremented, as one would want. Thus > the instruction loads 5 (the next word) into location 177404 (the next > word used as an address). That location is a control register for the > disc controller. I think it determines the disc number to load from but > I am not sure. The following instruction is just an endless loop: > branch relative -1. I think it serves to give the controller time to do > its stuff (hence the "wait 1 sec"). > > After that pause, the machine is told to start executing from address 0. > I don't recall if there was a fixed boot loader at address 0, but I > think not. I think the code is loaded from the numbered disk, but I am > not sure. > > I've done this and related boot load sequences on earlier PDP-11s that > had switches (all computers should have switches!) only three or four > times in my life so it's all very vague, but there must be people who > can do this with their eyes shut. Some of us have a much longer boot loader for stuff like the PDP8 permanently etched in our minds because we had to toggle it in thru the switches so often.
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| From | Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 09:35 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <llhl05$nf4$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE> |
| In reply to | #2917 |
On 2014-05-20 21:31, Rod Speed wrote:
>
> Some of us have a much longer boot loader for stuff
> like the PDP8 permanently etched in our minds because
> we had to toggle it in thru the switches so often.
RK05 bootstrap on a PDP-8:
30 LA
6743 DEP
5031 DEP
30 LA
START
And off you go. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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| From | "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 15:14 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <arJev.74227$GL7.16550@fx10.am4> |
| In reply to | #2900 |
"RS Wood" <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote in message news:20140520111048.ea712fde.rsw@therandymon.com... > On Mon, 19 May 2014 23:10:34 +0200 > Fascinating to hear from someone who had experience with one of these > things. This picture of the sequence of byte-by-byte instructions for > booting the machine blows my mind. > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/14043526294/in/set-72157644327706146 > > Kind of puts into perspective PC users who are having trouble with > GRUB2 or think their BIOS sucks, etc. Here, I'll transcribe it: > > LA 010000 > DEP 012737 > 000005 > 177404 > 000777 > LA 010000 > START > WAIT 1 SEC > LA 0000000 > START > . P4 I used a pdp11/34 (but running rsx11m), I don't remember having to do any of that. (Although it could be that my colleague took care of it..) But a couple of years later with my own microprocessor systems that only had ram but no rom, that was a bit more challenging as I literally started with nothing (I didn't even know, with a board hand-built from my own schematics, where it ought to work or not!) -- Bartc
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| From | Rob Brown <brown@greenslade.gmcl.internal> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 20:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnlnnd2b.n3d.brown@greenslade.gmcl.internal> |
| In reply to | #2911 |
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.sys.pdp11.] On 2014-05-20, BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote: > > > "RS Wood" <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote in message > news:20140520111048.ea712fde.rsw@therandymon.com... >> On Mon, 19 May 2014 23:10:34 +0200 > >> >> LA 010000 >> DEP 012737 >> 000005 >> 177404 >> 000777 >> LA 010000 >> START >> WAIT 1 SEC >> LA 0000000 >> START >> . P4 > > I used a pdp11/34 (but running rsx11m), I don't remember having to do any of > that. (Although it could be that my colleague took care of it..) IIRC on the 11/34, you just had to press the BOOT button and then enter the boot device (RL?) on the console terminal.
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| From | Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 16:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <537BBEE1.A8690F46@bytecraft.com> |
| In reply to | #2900 |
RS Wood wrote:
> On Mon, 19 May 2014 23:10:34 +0200
> Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>
> > That is very similar to the first PDP I worked on, and coincidentally that
> > was 1978 as well.
> >
> > Ours started out with 64KB, two RK05 disks and 3 VT52 terminals. By
> > Christmas 1979 we had upgraded it to 192KB, 6 terminals, another couple of
> > RK05s and an RL02. No tape though, we did our backups to RK05s.
>
> <snippage>
>
> Fascinating to hear from someone who had experience with one of these
> things. This picture of the sequence of byte-by-byte instructions for
> booting the machine blows my mind.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/14043526294/in/set-72157644327706146
>
> Kind of puts into perspective PC users who are having trouble with
> GRUB2 or think their BIOS sucks, etc. Here, I'll transcribe it:
>
> LA 010000
> DEP 012737
> 000005
> 177404
> 000777
> LA 010000
> START
> WAIT 1 SEC
> LA 0000000
> START
> . P4
>
> Wizardry, total wizardry. I'm in awe.
I just happened to have a PDP-11 instruction list card on my desk
(: Maybe my wife is correct I don't throw things away )
the original PDP-11 before it was renamed PDP11/20.
For a PDP11 Bootstrap Loader is listed as
-----------
LOC CONT
-----------
*744 16701
*746 26
*750 12702
*752 352
*754 5211
*756 105711
*760 100376
*762 116162
*764 2
*766 *400
*770 5267
*772 177756
*744 756
*756 177560 (TK)
or
177550 (PR)
-----------
MEM
SIZE *
-----------
4K 17
8K 37
12K 57
16K 77
20K 117
24K 137
28K 157
I wish I had a nickel for everytime
I keyed a bootstrap into a PDP-11
The UNIBUS was quite easy to interface
to and a friend and I took a prototype
board and a handful of logic to create
a combinatorial logic implementation of the
PDP-11 bootstrap in a midnight to
morning experiment to save us some time.
w..
w..
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 21:14 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <kq9on9h42ll3s0e86ntlaas0le3slpfh7u@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2900 |
On Tue, 20 May 2014 11:10:48 +0000, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com>
wrote:
[snip]
>Kind of puts into perspective PC users who are having trouble with
>GRUB2 or think their BIOS sucks, etc. Here, I'll transcribe it:
[snip boot sequence]
>Wizardry, total wizardry. I'm in awe.
The first "computer" that I ever programmed was CARDIAC
(Cardboard Illustrative Aid to Computation by Bell Labs). The manual
kept referring to the bootstrap, but did not explain how it worked.
When I figured it out after gnawing on it from time to time for years,
it was a moment of wow!
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 09:42 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <210520140942440223%timstreater@greenbee.net> |
| In reply to | #2928 |
In article <kq9on9h42ll3s0e86ntlaas0le3slpfh7u@4ax.com>, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2014 11:10:48 +0000, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> > wrote: > > [snip] > > >Kind of puts into perspective PC users who are having trouble with > >GRUB2 or think their BIOS sucks, etc. Here, I'll transcribe it: > > [snip boot sequence] > > >Wizardry, total wizardry. I'm in awe. > > The first "computer" that I ever programmed was CARDIAC > (Cardboard Illustrative Aid to Computation by Bell Labs). The manual > kept referring to the bootstrap, but did not explain how it worked. > When I figured it out after gnawing on it from time to time for years, > it was a moment of wow! Aa we'll see in your new book: "How I learnt to love eating cardboard". -- "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." - Douglas Adams
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| From | Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 10:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <bu3doaF8gbeU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2900 |
On 2014-05-20, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: > On Mon, 19 May 2014 23:10:34 +0200 > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote: > >> That is very similar to the first PDP I worked on, and coincidentally that >> was 1978 as well. >> >> Ours started out with 64KB, two RK05 disks and 3 VT52 terminals. By >> Christmas 1979 we had upgraded it to 192KB, 6 terminals, another couple of >> RK05s and an RL02. No tape though, we did our backups to RK05s. > ><snippage> > > Fascinating to hear from someone who had experience with one of these > things. This picture of the sequence of byte-by-byte instructions for > booting the machine blows my mind. > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/osr/14043526294/in/set-72157644327706146 > > Kind of puts into perspective PC users who are having trouble with > GRUB2 or think their BIOS sucks, etc. Here, I'll transcribe it: > > LA 010000 > DEP 012737 > 000005 > 177404 > 000777 > LA 010000 > START > WAIT 1 SEC > LA 0000000 > START > . P4 > > Wizardry, total wizardry. I'm in awe. How old are you? This kind of stuff was pretty standard when I started. -- Today is Sweetmorn, the 68th day of Discord in the YOLD 3180 "I do not believe in revealed religion — I will have nothing to do with your immortality; we are miserable enough in this life, without speculating on another." Lord Byron, 1778-1824, letter to Rev. Francis Hodgson, 1811
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-20 13:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0004F9D54475159A@aca27384.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #2887 |
Paul Sture wrote: > On 2014-05-19, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >> Saw this linked at HackerNews: a revamped PDP-11/34 with all sorts of >> 1970s goodness. Very cool article, and clearly people who appreciate >> and love the era. >> >> http://www.nycresistor.com/2014/05/15/pdp-11/ > > That is very similar to the first PDP I worked on, and coincidentally that > was 1978 as well. > > Ours started out with 64KB, two RK05 disks and 3 VT52 terminals. By > Christmas 1979 we had upgraded it to 192KB, 6 terminals, another couple of > RK05s and an RL02. No tape though, we did our backups to RK05s. > > The "SJ" in RT-11SJ stood for Single Job. You had to rebuild it from the > supplied OS sources whenever you added a new bit of hardware so it could > see it, which on our machine took about 3 hours. I'd usually set that > off overnight and come in early the next day to see if it had worked. > > Single Job meant what it said. We used TSD (Time Shared DIBOL) on top > of that, which allowed time slicing between the apps running on each > terminal. In that form it was just byte code run by a supervisor; you > could also link the same programs with a different library to form a > larger executable which of course was single user. > > The single user aspect meant that to run the apps on the terminals we > had to run the run time supervisor, thus: > > .R TSD > > which would put the console and the other terminals we had configured > under control of the TSD supervisor. > > That of course meant we couldn't run an editor from the command prompt, > nor compile or link. We had to wait until the users had finished for the > day, then we'd run invoicing and backups, and only then could we crack on > with editing program sources. Coding pads were the order of the day in > that environment. > > At some point I rebuilt RT-11 with the FB (Foreground/Background) option, > and that meant we could run a 4KB print spooler at the same time as > editing/compiling/linking. Why was RT-11 picked as the OS? /BAH
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| From | Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 09:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <gs1u4b-qv8.ln1@news.chingola.ch> |
| In reply to | #2908 |
On 2014-05-20, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: >> On 2014-05-19, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >>> Saw this linked at HackerNews: a revamped PDP-11/34 with all sorts of >>> 1970s goodness. Very cool article, and clearly people who appreciate >>> and love the era. >>> >>> http://www.nycresistor.com/2014/05/15/pdp-11/ >> >> That is very similar to the first PDP I worked on, and coincidentally that >> was 1978 as well. >> >> Ours started out with 64KB, two RK05 disks and 3 VT52 terminals. By >> Christmas 1979 we had upgraded it to 192KB, 6 terminals, another couple of >> RK05s and an RL02. No tape though, we did our backups to RK05s. >> >> The "SJ" in RT-11SJ stood for Single Job. You had to rebuild it from the >> supplied OS sources whenever you added a new bit of hardware so it could >> see it, which on our machine took about 3 hours. I'd usually set that >> off overnight and come in early the next day to see if it had worked. >> >> Single Job meant what it said. We used TSD (Time Shared DIBOL) on top >> of that, which allowed time slicing between the apps running on each >> terminal. In that form it was just byte code run by a supervisor; you >> could also link the same programs with a different library to form a >> larger executable which of course was single user. >> >> The single user aspect meant that to run the apps on the terminals we >> had to run the run time supervisor, thus: >> >> .R TSD >> >> which would put the console and the other terminals we had configured >> under control of the TSD supervisor. >> >> That of course meant we couldn't run an editor from the command prompt, >> nor compile or link. We had to wait until the users had finished for the >> day, then we'd run invoicing and backups, and only then could we crack on >> with editing program sources. Coding pads were the order of the day in >> that environment. >> >> At some point I rebuilt RT-11 with the FB (Foreground/Background) option, >> and that meant we could run a 4KB print spooler at the same time as >> editing/compiling/linking. > > Why was RT-11 picked as the OS? It was picked by the software house/OEM we bought the system from. It was in fact a bit more than RT-11, due not only to the TSD package but an additional piece of hardware known as CIS (Commercial Instruction Set). The full package of RT-11, TSD and CIS was known as CTS-300 (Commercial Transaction System). The next step up was CTS-500 and I _think_ that was RSTS based, but I never got my hands on it to find out. This was all quite revolutionary at the time. OEMs were putting commercial applications on what had been regarded as a scientific and process control platform. DEC themselves didn't want to deal those customers and a lot of OEMs made a lot of money out of it. It may seem strange today, but back then DIBOL (Digital Business Oriented Language) only supported character string numerics. There were no integer or floating point variables as other languages know them, and the CIS module took the load of doing string arithmetic off the main CPU. The DIBOL language was easy to learn. It combined FORTRAN style (simple) IF and assignment syntax with COBOL like file I/O and data formatting syntax. Although there was a debugger (Dibol Debugging Tool, DDT :-) ), I only really needed it the once: you really could debug a program from the listings. We did come across the viewpoint that it was "Programming for kids", but it allowed us to produce readable code and concentrate on the business requirements. -- Paul Sture The final step of #heartbleed recovery is to call your mother, and advise her to change her maiden name -- @gojomo
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| From | Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 08:27 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <proto-B32E87.08270021052014@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #2934 |
In article <gs1u4b-qv8.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote: > We did come across the viewpoint that it was "Programming for kids", but > it allowed us to produce readable code and concentrate on the business > requirements. Considering how much debugging was done (and still is?!) by very junior programmers at 3 AM in the morning[1] probably a good idea. Now the stuff is done in C++ and the risks are obvious. And yes, business application programmers should not be required to deal with messy computer details. The business requirement are more than enough and it's difficult to make a business case for a program that won't meet specs until long after the business requirements have changed. [1] Redundancy deliberate for emphasis. -- Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
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| From | "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-21 16:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <op.xf7tshreo4et73@dell3100> |
| In reply to | #2945 |
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:27:00 +0100, Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote: > In article <gs1u4b-qv8.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote: > >> We did come across the viewpoint that it was "Programming for kids", but >> it allowed us to produce readable code and concentrate on the business >> requirements. > > Considering how much debugging was done (and still is?!) by very > junior programmers at 3 AM in the morning[1] probably a good idea. Now > the stuff is done in C++ and the risks are obvious. > > And yes, business application programmers should not be required to > deal with messy computer details. The business requirement are more > than enough and it's difficult to make a business case for a program > that won't meet specs until long after the business requirements have > changed. > > [1] Redundancy deliberate for emphasis. > I assumed you were channeling Maggie Riley (with guitar break (yeah!) by Mike Oldfield - yes the Bells man) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e80qhyovOnA +1:23 d*mn, that's much later: it's *4* am! -- It's a money /life balance.
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| From | Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> |
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| Date | 2014-05-21 12:11 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <proto-98FF2C.12114621052014@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #2963 |
In article <op.xf7tshreo4et73@dell3100>, "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e80qhyovOnA "The uploader has not made the video available in your country." -- Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
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| From | "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> |
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| Date | 2014-05-21 20:52 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <op.xf76tyroo4et73@dell3100> |
| In reply to | #2968 |
On Wed, 21 May 2014 17:11:46 +0100, Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote: > In article <op.xf7tshreo4et73@dell3100>, > "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote: > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e80qhyovOnA > > "The uploader has not made the video available in your country." > Ah well. No great loss; it was "Moonlight Shadow" by Mr Oldfield ft. Ms Riley. at one point (1:24) the lyric is ...4 a.m. in the morning, carried away by a moonlight shadow... -- It's a money /life balance.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
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| Date | 2014-05-21 13:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0004F9E8DBE87D1C@aca22365.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #2934 |
Paul Sture wrote: > On 2014-05-20, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> Paul Sture wrote: >>> On 2014-05-19, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >>>> Saw this linked at HackerNews: a revamped PDP-11/34 with all sorts of >>>> 1970s goodness. Very cool article, and clearly people who appreciate >>>> and love the era. >>>> >>>> http://www.nycresistor.com/2014/05/15/pdp-11/ >>> >>> That is very similar to the first PDP I worked on, and coincidentally that >>> was 1978 as well. >>> >>> Ours started out with 64KB, two RK05 disks and 3 VT52 terminals. By >>> Christmas 1979 we had upgraded it to 192KB, 6 terminals, another couple of >>> RK05s and an RL02. No tape though, we did our backups to RK05s. >>> >>> The "SJ" in RT-11SJ stood for Single Job. You had to rebuild it from the >>> supplied OS sources whenever you added a new bit of hardware so it could >>> see it, which on our machine took about 3 hours. I'd usually set that >>> off overnight and come in early the next day to see if it had worked. >>> >>> Single Job meant what it said. We used TSD (Time Shared DIBOL) on top >>> of that, which allowed time slicing between the apps running on each >>> terminal. In that form it was just byte code run by a supervisor; you >>> could also link the same programs with a different library to form a >>> larger executable which of course was single user. >>> >>> The single user aspect meant that to run the apps on the terminals we >>> had to run the run time supervisor, thus: >>> >>> .R TSD >>> >>> which would put the console and the other terminals we had configured >>> under control of the TSD supervisor. >>> >>> That of course meant we couldn't run an editor from the command prompt, >>> nor compile or link. We had to wait until the users had finished for the >>> day, then we'd run invoicing and backups, and only then could we crack on >>> with editing program sources. Coding pads were the order of the day in >>> that environment. >>> >>> At some point I rebuilt RT-11 with the FB (Foreground/Background) option, >>> and that meant we could run a 4KB print spooler at the same time as >>> editing/compiling/linking. >> >> Why was RT-11 picked as the OS? > > It was picked by the software house/OEM we bought the system from. Ah, OEM. OK.. > It was > in fact a bit more than RT-11, due not only to the TSD package but an > additional piece of hardware known as CIS (Commercial Instruction Set). > > The full package of RT-11, TSD and CIS was known as CTS-300 (Commercial > Transaction System). The next step up was CTS-500 and I _think_ that was > RSTS based, but I never got my hands on it to find out. > > This was all quite revolutionary at the time. OEMs were putting commercial > applications on what had been regarded as a scientific and process control > platform. DEC themselves didn't want to deal those customers and a lot of > OEMs made a lot of money out of it. Yup. We knew how to make hardware work well; we didn't know how to do apps for a general public. Most of the hard/software packages at that time were designed for one or a few customers, not the general public. DEC did have Special Systems groups but those people stopped at the app level. They just build a system for a customer to meet the hardware needs and wrote the underlying software to make the hardware work well. the app layers were usually done by someone else at the same time so that they could consult with the DEC engineers. > > It may seem strange today, but back then DIBOL (Digital Business Oriented > Language) only supported character string numerics. There were no integer > or floating point variables as other languages know them, and the CIS > module took the load of doing string arithmetic off the main CPU. > > The DIBOL language was easy to learn. It combined FORTRAN style (simple) IF > and assignment syntax with COBOL like file I/O and data formatting syntax. > Although there was a debugger (Dibol Debugging Tool, DDT :-) ), I only really > needed it the once: you really could debug a program from the listings. > > We did come across the viewpoint that it was "Programming for kids", but > it allowed us to produce readable code and concentrate on the business > requirements. DEC's philosophy was to not force each and every action of a user/ program to wrestle with the hard/software. The OEMs carried on that approach. DEaling with computers should never be a wrestling match; the monitor should stay out of the way unless the user asks for help. /BAH
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