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Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal?

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  Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? 2phar <none@example.com> - 2014-02-21 08:44 -0500
    Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? The Daring Dufas <the-daring-dufas@stinky-finger.net> - 2014-02-21 08:07 -0600
      Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? 2phar <none@example.com> - 2014-02-21 09:42 -0500
        Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-02-26 12:55 -0500
    Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-21 17:06 +0200
      Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Stuart Barkley <stuartb@4gh.net> - 2014-03-01 22:37 -0500
        Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Jon Lane <jon@dorsal.tk> - 2014-06-25 19:03 +0000
    Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> - 2014-02-21 09:34 -0600
      Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-21 09:11 -0800
        Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> - 2014-02-21 14:15 -0600
      Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-16 13:58 +0100
    Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-22 16:06 +0000
      Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-16 14:06 +0100
        Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-17 10:30 +0000
    Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-02-26 12:54 -0500
      Re: Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal? Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-16 18:12 -0700

#657 — Anyone still using a serial dumb terminal?

Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone out 
there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use to 
connect to a system?

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#659

On 2/21/2014 7:44 AM, 2phar wrote:
> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone
> out there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use
> to connect to a system?

I was using a dumb terminal to program phone systems and even gave on to 
some friends of mine to use to program phone systems. I later used my 
Dell laptop which had a serial port to program phone systems, control 
systems, routers and managed switches. Now I have a USB to serial 
converter to accomplish the same tasks. I do believe I have several dumb 
terminals in storage an perhaps one out in the shed. ^_^

Oh yea, the laptop is a lot easier to carry around. ^_^

TDD

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#661

On 2/21/2014 9:07 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
> I was using a dumb terminal to program phone systems and even gave on to
> some friends of mine to use to program phone systems. I later used my
> Dell laptop which had a serial port to program phone systems, control
> systems, routers and managed switches. Now I have a USB to serial
> converter to accomplish the same tasks. I do believe I have several dumb
> terminals in storage an perhaps one out in the shed. ^_^
>
> Oh yea, the laptop is a lot easier to carry around. ^_^
>
> TDD
I used to have what I think was some version of an ADM 1A, but 
eventually the electronics deteriorated. It was kinda fun getting it to 
run with a modern system and figuring out the termcap etc.

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#977

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, 2phar wrote:

> On 2/21/2014 9:07 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> I was using a dumb terminal to program phone systems and even gave on to
>> some friends of mine to use to program phone systems. I later used my
>> Dell laptop which had a serial port to program phone systems, control
>> systems, routers and managed switches. Now I have a USB to serial
>> converter to accomplish the same tasks. I do believe I have several dumb
>> terminals in storage an perhaps one out in the shed. ^_^
>> 
>> Oh yea, the laptop is a lot easier to carry around. ^_^
>> 
>> TDD
> I used to have what I think was some version of an ADM 1A, but eventually the 
> electronics deteriorated. It was kinda fun getting it to run with a modern 
> system and figuring out the termcap etc.
>
A computer urnning a terminal emulator is just as dumb as a standalone 
dumb terminal.  Get a Mac Classic and you have cute little terminal for 
whatever purpose that might come up.

   Michael

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#664

2phar <none@example.com>:

> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone
> out there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use
> to connect to a system?

I wish I could use a virtual serial port to fully automate the
installation of Linux on a virtual machine. Some VM platforms have
commercial support for serial/SSH translation, but I have never had the
time to try it. For example, I don't know if the modern mainstream Linux
distros will install on a headless PC.


Marko

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#1132

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 at 10:06 -0000, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> I wish I could use a virtual serial port to fully automate the
> installation of Linux on a virtual machine. Some VM platforms have
> commercial support for serial/SSH translation, but I have never had
> the time to try it. For example, I don't know if the modern
> mainstream Linux distros will install on a headless PC.

Yes, you can do headless install of Linux with kvm/libvirt:

    virt-install --name c70 --ram 1024 --nographics --os-variant rhel6 --network bridge=br0,model=virtio \
        --disk path=/data/vm-images/c70.img,size=8 \
        --location /data/mirror/CentOS/6/os/x86_64 \
        --extra-args "ksdevice=eth0 ip=192.168.57.70 netmask=255.255.255.0 ks=http://192.168.57.3/c6.cfg console=ttyS0"

You can also redirect the console output to a unix socket with an
option like "--serial tcp,host=:2270,mode=bind,protocol=telnet".  I
have done this in the past and used conserver to log the console
output.

Recent versions of FreeBSD have broken the headless installation on
the default .iso image, but this can be restored with a minor patch to
the .iso (echo 'console="comconsole"' >> boot/loader.conf and rebuild
the .iso).

Stuart
-- 
I've never been lost; I was once bewildered for three days, but never lost!
                                        --  Daniel Boone

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#3869

On 2014-03-02, Stuart Barkley <stuartb@4gh.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 at 10:06 -0000, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> I wish I could use a virtual serial port to fully automate the
>> installation of Linux on a virtual machine. Some VM platforms have
>> commercial support for serial/SSH translation, but I have never had
>> the time to try it. For example, I don't know if the modern
>> mainstream Linux distros will install on a headless PC.
>
> Yes, you can do headless install of Linux with kvm/libvirt:
>
>     virt-install --name c70 --ram 1024 --nographics --os-variant rhel6 --network bridge=br0,model=virtio \
>         --disk path=/data/vm-images/c70.img,size=8 \
>         --location /data/mirror/CentOS/6/os/x86_64 \
>         --extra-args "ksdevice=eth0 ip=192.168.57.70 netmask=255.255.255.0 ks=http://192.168.57.3/c6.cfg console=ttyS0"
>
> You can also redirect the console output to a unix socket with an
> option like "--serial tcp,host=:2270,mode=bind,protocol=telnet".  I
> have done this in the past and used conserver to log the console
> output.
>
> Recent versions of FreeBSD have broken the headless installation on
> the default .iso image, but this can be restored with a minor patch to
> the .iso (echo 'console="comconsole"' >> boot/loader.conf and rebuild
> the .iso).
>
> Stuart

On sparc64 at least, the FreeBSD installer gracefully fails over to using the 
serial console if the serial line catches user input before the keyboard does.
Given that I keep my Ultra 5 headless, with a null modem cable to an RPi 
attached to it, that's not a really pressing race condition. 

Jon

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#665

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:44:35 -0500, 2phar belched forth:

> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone out 
> there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use to 
> connect to a system?

I used an old off-brand VT-100 clunker until recently, when its CRT finally
died.  I used it to maintain my ancient Cisco 2501 routers on my private
network and occasionally for shell access to my many boxen.

Now my TRS-80 Model 4P serves that role.  (Yes, I'm serious)


-- 
Am I really conceited?  No, but I have every right to be!
conceitedjerk.blogspot.com / Twitter: @Conceitedjerk

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#673

On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:34:32 AM UTC-5, Conceited Jerk wrote:
> I used an old off-brand VT-100 clunker until recently, when its CRT finally
> died. I used it to maintain my ancient Cisco 2501 routers on my private 
> network and occasionally for shell access to my many boxen.
>
> Now my TRS-80 Model 4P serves that role. (Yes, I'm serious)
>
> --
> Am I really conceited? No, but I have every right to be!
> conceitedjerk.blogspot.com / Twitter: @Conceitedjerk

That was a nice machine with a big screen (for a luggable, anyway).
Seems like it would make a perfect terminal. Does yours have the
original black/white screen or the green screen?

I never owned a TRS-80 computer, but I first learned to program on
a Model III at a week-long Radio Shack computer camp. Later, when
I was in high school, I used to look for the 4P in every Radio Shack
I entered. I remember feeling disappointed when my Dad bought a PC-XT
clone for himself instead of one of these. :)

Here's a nice writeup about the 4P.
http://www.trs-80.org/model-4p/

--
Usenet 2014 ... Go nntp!

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#679

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:11:39 -0800 (PST), wjwlsn belched forth:

> On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:34:32 AM UTC-5, Conceited Jerk wrote:

>> Now my TRS-80 Model 4P serves that role. (Yes, I'm serious)
>>
>> --
>> Am I really conceited? No, but I have every right to be!
>> conceitedjerk.blogspot.com / Twitter: @Conceitedjerk
> 
> That was a nice machine with a big screen (for a luggable, anyway).
> Seems like it would make a perfect terminal. Does yours have the
> original black/white screen or the green screen?

Mine has the green screen, and newly-installed 360k floppy drives!  It's
less portable nowadays since I added a 70 meg full-height 5-1/4" external
hard drive, which added 15-20 lbs to an already heavy portable.

> 
> I never owned a TRS-80 computer, but I first learned to program on
> a Model III at a week-long Radio Shack computer camp. Later, when
> I was in high school, I used to look for the 4P in every Radio Shack
> I entered. I remember feeling disappointed when my Dad bought a PC-XT
> clone for himself instead of one of these. :)

I didn't get mine 'til 2005, after 30+ years of coveting!  I cut my teeth
on the Coco 2 (my first computer), then the Coco 3 til I upgraded to the
Amiga, then PC.
 
> Here's a nice writeup about the 4P.
> http://www.trs-80.org/model-4p/

Always a good site, although I miss the downloads section...

-- 
Am I really conceited?  No, but I have every right to be!
conceitedjerk.blogspot.com / Twitter: @Conceitedjerk

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#1677

On 2014-02-21, Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:44:35 -0500, 2phar belched forth:
>
>> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone out 
>> there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use to 
>> connect to a system?
>
> I used an old off-brand VT-100 clunker until recently, when its CRT finally
> died.  I used it to maintain my ancient Cisco 2501 routers on my private
> network and occasionally for shell access to my many boxen.

I had a couple of genuine DEC VT220 terminals until I emigrated in 1998,
when I reluctantly left them behind.

When PCs still had serial ports I used a VT100 terminal emulator to
talk directly to serial ports on routers, but the last router I had
with a serial port was an ADSL model so useless with cable. :-(

> Now my TRS-80 Model 4P serves that role.  (Yes, I'm serious)

If it still works, why not?

-- 
Paul Sture

"In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy
is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."

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#711

On 2014-02-21, 2phar <none@example.com> wrote:
> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone out 
> there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use to 
> connect to a system?

A related question: does anyone still produce this stuff?  I have a
strange nostalgia for amber or green screens, and just had a set of
personal business cards printed up with VT-100s as a background image.

I see tons of refurbished stuff on ebay etc. but surely there are
systems out there that are working just fine on that era's technology
and sees no reason to upgrade to anything else.  Perhaps there's a niche
market for new/compatible terminal hardware?

It kills me to see clerks/etc using a WinXP box with a terminal client
like PuTTY open.  They're invariably also using their terminal to surf
the web or chat on MSN Messenger at the same time, the sort of thing I'd
not be happy about if I were an employer.

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#1678

On 2014-02-22, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On 2014-02-21, 2phar <none@example.com> wrote:
>> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone out 
>> there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use to 
>> connect to a system?
>
> A related question: does anyone still produce this stuff?  I have a
> strange nostalgia for amber or green screens, and just had a set of
> personal business cards printed up with VT-100s as a background image.

I'm not sure though I've found a link for some VT520s here:

<http://dec.vecmar.com/products/productpage.asp?pid=1485-DEC_VT520_Terminal>

> I see tons of refurbished stuff on ebay etc. but surely there are
> systems out there that are working just fine on that era's technology
> and sees no reason to upgrade to anything else.  Perhaps there's a niche
> market for new/compatible terminal hardware?
>
> It kills me to see clerks/etc using a WinXP box with a terminal client
> like PuTTY open.  They're invariably also using their terminal to surf
> the web or chat on MSN Messenger at the same time, the sort of thing I'd
> not be happy about if I were an employer.

When I worked in a factory there was nothing better for production line
use than a VT of one flavour or another.  We blocked off setup keys to
stop users fiddling with them so they were pretty maintenance free.  You'd
probably have to do quite a bit of locking down on a PC to achieve the
same level of robustness.

-- 
Paul Sture

"In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy
is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."

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#1706

On 2014-03-16, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

> When I worked in a factory there was nothing better for production line
> use than a VT of one flavour or another.  We blocked off setup keys to
> stop users fiddling with them so they were pretty maintenance free.  You'd
> probably have to do quite a bit of locking down on a PC to achieve the
> same level of robustness.

I used to do process control automation for a crisp (US: chip) and biscuit
(US: cookie) manufacturer. We had ruggedised VT100 clones with custom
keyboards in the factories for the operatives to use.  I imagine a PC
would have lasted a couple of days tops in the hot, greasy, "dirty"
environment of a crisp (US: chip) factory.


-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 3rd day of Discord in the YOLD 3180
A non-empty Hausdorff topological space is a continuous image of the unit
interval if and only if it is a compact, connected, locally connected
second-countable space.

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#976

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, 2phar wrote:

> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone out 
> there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use to 
> connect to a system?
>
Up until October of 2012 I could use a dumb terminal to call my ISP and 
use the shell there.

If I had an emergency, I could dig out the modem, run a long phone line to 
a plug, and call the Ottawa Freenet where I have an account (for Usenet) 
and use their "shell" (which is actually a very limited selection of 
tools), all with a dumb terminal.

Check the apple II newsgroup, people sometimes use their Apple II through 
a serial port to their main computer to get on the internet.  I'm sure 
that applies to others running older computers.

   Michael

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#1698

On 2014-02-26 17:54:45 +0000, Michael Black said:

> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, 2phar wrote:
> 
>> Most OSs still support a shell login via a serial port. Does anyone out 
>> there still have a dumb terminal and a serial port, and still use to 
>> connect to a system?
>> 
> Up until October of 2012 I could use a dumb terminal to call my ISP and 
> use the shell there.
> 
> If I had an emergency, I could dig out the modem, run a long phone line 
> to a plug, and call the Ottawa Freenet where I have an account (for 
> Usenet) and use their "shell" (which is actually a very limited 
> selection of tools), all with a dumb terminal.
> 
> Check the apple II newsgroup, people sometimes use their Apple II 
> through a serial port to their main computer to get on the internet.  
> I'm sure that applies to others running older computers.
> 
>    Michael

My mom just shipped my IIGS out to me.  I can't wait for it to arrive, 
and get it hooked to my OS X machine.  My only issue is that I want an 
LCD display for it - the old monitor seems like it's on its last legs.

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