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Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap

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  Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-10-04 22:38 +0000
    Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-10-05 00:47 -0700
      Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-10-05 13:01 +0000
      Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-10-05 12:38 -0600
        Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-10-05 15:51 -0700
      Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-10-05 23:11 -0600
        Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-10-06 02:50 -0700
          Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-10-06 10:22 +0000
            Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-10-06 22:54 -0600
              Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap "D.D." <usenet.xyzzyx@spamgourmet.com> - 2014-10-07 01:21 -0700
                Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-10-08 18:40 +0000
                  Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-10-09 01:10 -0400
                    Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-10-09 16:08 +0000
              Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2014-10-07 17:35 -0700
                Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-10-07 22:31 -0600
                  Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-10-08 16:05 +0000
            Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-10-07 16:33 +0300
    Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-10-05 13:37 +0000
    Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> - 2014-10-05 19:24 +0100
      Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-10-05 19:28 +0100
        Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> - 2014-10-05 20:05 +0100
          Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-10-05 20:07 +0100
            Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> - 2014-10-05 20:20 +0100
              Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-10-05 22:15 +0100
      Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2014-10-05 15:50 -0500
        Re: Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-10-05 23:17 +0100

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#5225 — Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere, despite the growth of phones and tablets - because they're cheap

https://jseliger.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/desktop-pcs-arent-going-anywhere-despite-the-growth-of-phones-and-tablets%E2%80%94because-theyre-cheap/

   I'm tired of articles like "As PCs Wane, Companies Look to Tablets" You
   know why PCs aren't going anywhere? Because they're cheap. You can buy
   them reasonably close to cost. If you want the least expensive means of
   computing possible, you can't beat PCs now and won't be able to for
   years, at the very earliest. Sure, "making them has not been a great
   business for most American companies for almost a decade," but that's
   because consumers are deriving so much surplus from PCs. They're not
   close to commodities. Which is great for buyers, if not sellers.

   The industry, the reporters who cover the industry, bloggers, and other
   people with a stake in the action want you to believe "TABLETS TABLETS
   TABLETS ARE COOL!!!!" because they want you to buy relatively
   high-margin tablets. Those tablets are high-margin because they combine
   commodity hardware with OS lock-in. The industry wants to move closer to
   Apple's model, since Apple gets away with what it does because a) it has
   great design and b) for a long time, and maybe up to the present, OS X
   was more fun and in some respects better designed than Windows. Lock-in
   and high margins? What's not to love from a business perspective?

   ...

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#5229

Desktops for me for power, prices, flexibility, etc. (Laptop/Notebook)s 
are OK too. I don't like tablets and touchscreens.


On 10/4/2014 3:38 PM PT, Rich typed:

> https://jseliger.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/desktop-pcs-arent-going-anywhere-despite-the-growth-of-phones-and-tablets%E2%80%94because-theyre-cheap/
>
>     I'm tired of articles like "As PCs Wane, Companies Look to Tablets" You
>     know why PCs aren't going anywhere? Because they're cheap. You can buy
>     them reasonably close to cost. If you want the least expensive means of
>     computing possible, you can't beat PCs now and won't be able to for
>     years, at the very earliest. Sure, "making them has not been a great
>     business for most American companies for almost a decade," but that's
>     because consumers are deriving so much surplus from PCs. They're not
>     close to commodities. Which is great for buyers, if not sellers.
>
>     The industry, the reporters who cover the industry, bloggers, and other
>     people with a stake in the action want you to believe "TABLETS TABLETS
>     TABLETS ARE COOL!!!!" because they want you to buy relatively
>     high-margin tablets. Those tablets are high-margin because they combine
>     commodity hardware with OS lock-in. The industry wants to move closer to
>     Apple's model, since Apple gets away with what it does because a) it has
>     great design and b) for a long time, and maybe up to the present, OS X
>     was more fun and in some respects better designed than Windows. Lock-in
>     and high margins? What's not to love from a business perspective?
>
>     ...
>


-- 
"Don't be no Ant-Man. An Ant-Man has very low horizons." --Forrest Gump
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#5231

On 2014-10-05, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> Desktops for me for power, prices, flexibility, etc. (Laptop/Notebook)s 
> are OK too. I don't like tablets and touchscreens.

And also, the blisteringly obvious: They're darned good at some tasks no
other hardware is as equipped to do.

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#5235

Ant wrote:

> Desktops for me for power, prices, flexibility, etc. (Laptop/Notebook)s
> are OK too. I don't like tablets and touchscreens.
> 

Try fitting custom hardware functionality into a laptop (or for total 
frustration, a tablet!).  Toy keyboards, tiny screens that inevitably 
collect finger smudges, all make for a stressful environment that cuts my 
productivity by at least a third.  I'm reminded of this every time I have to 
use the laptop while on the road - and for the odd occasion I have to make 
do with the wife's iPad it's even worse. 

-- 
Will Honea

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#5242

On 10/5/2014 11:38 AM PT, Will Honea typed:

>> Desktops for me for power, prices, flexibility, etc. (Laptop/Notebook)s
>> are OK too. I don't like tablets and touchscreens.
>
> Try fitting custom hardware functionality into a laptop (or for total
> frustration, a tablet!).  Toy keyboards, tiny screens that inevitably
> collect finger smudges, all make for a stressful environment that cuts my
> productivity by at least a third.  I'm reminded of this every time I have to
> use the laptop while on the road - and for the odd occasion I have to make
> do with the wife's iPad it's even worse.

I'd rather use a slow netbook than a tablet. However, those combos with 
both touchscreens and keyboards are OK as long as they can act like 
laptop/notebooks. I just care not for (tablet/touch screen)s.
-- 
"I love ants. Do they have uncles? Ha Ha!" --Elmo from Sesame Street 
(unknown episode)
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#5243

Ant wrote:

> Desktops for me for power, prices, flexibility, etc. (Laptop/Notebook)s
> are OK too. I don't like tablets and touchscreens.
> 

Interesting example just today.  The wife was struggling to get a bunch of 
grades entered. She teaches elementary music in a public school - 680 
students to record - so it is a tedious task anyway you look at it.  After 
watching her plug along on the fancy new HP laptop the school issued, I took 
pity and brought up a spare 21 inch monitor and a full size keyboard to plug 
into the lappy while she was taking a break.  She returned and finished the 
last half of the entries in 2 hours.  The first half had consumed nearly 6 
hours of her time.  That really brought things into perspective for me.

-- 
Will Honea

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#5245

On 10/5/2014 10:11 PM PT, Will Honea typed:
> Interesting example just today.  The wife was struggling to get a bunch of
> grades entered. She teaches elementary music in a public school - 680
> students to record - so it is a tedious task anyway you look at it.  After
> watching her plug along on the fancy new HP laptop the school issued, I took
> pity and brought up a spare 21 inch monitor and a full size keyboard to plug
> into the lappy while she was taking a break.  She returned and finished the
> last half of the entries in 2 hours.  The first half had consumed nearly 6
> hours of her time.  That really brought things into perspective for me.

Model M keyboard? [grin]
-- 
"..., you ready for a little dumpster diving?" "Um... okay." "You know I 
don't mind getting my hands dirty." "I mean, maggots, wet trash, I am 
the first one in." "Okay, so what are you waiting for?" "Ants." 
(Chuckles) "Ants?" "Yes, I have got a problem with ants." "They are 
sneaky, and they are mobile, and when they get on you, even if you get 
them off..." "Okay, Calleigh, chill." --CSI: Miami (Wannabe episode; #218)
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#5246

On Mon, 06 Oct 2014 02:50:40 -0700, Ant wrote:

> On 10/5/2014 10:11 PM PT, Will Honea typed:
>> Interesting example just today.  The wife was struggling to get a bunch
>> of grades entered. She teaches elementary music in a public school -
>> 680 students to record - so it is a tedious task anyway you look at it.
>>  After watching her plug along on the fancy new HP laptop the school
>> issued, I took pity and brought up a spare 21 inch monitor and a full
>> size keyboard to plug into the lappy while she was taking a break.  She
>> returned and finished the last half of the entries in 2 hours.  The
>> first half had consumed nearly 6 hours of her time.  That really
>> brought things into perspective for me.
> 
> Model M keyboard? [grin]

Indeed. Wouldn't be without mine. I have three in constant use - one at 
work, one right here and one in my workshop. And about ten spares....

This one is vintage 1992, in daily use. One of the others is 1989...
-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#5248

Bob Eager wrote:

> Indeed. Wouldn't be without mine. I have three in constant use - one at
> work, one right here and one in my workshop. And about ten spares....
> 
> This one is vintage 1992, in daily use. One of the others is 1989...
> 

I've got a box full of old IBM boat anchors - full travel, tactile click 
feel, etc. keyboards but they are all the old style kdb interface type.  I'd 
love to find a usable USB converter for them.  That's still my favorite 
device, even if it weighs more than my laptop.

-- 
Will Honea

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#5249

On 10/06/2014 09:54 PM, Will Honea wrote:
> I've got a box full of old IBM boat anchors - full travel, tactile click
> feel, etc. keyboards but they are all the old style kdb interface type.  I'd
> love to find a usable USB converter for them.  That's still my favorite
> device, even if it weighs more than my laptop.

There's several sets of instructions on the web about how to convert the old DIN 
5-pin keyboards to USB if you're comfortable soldering.   I'm waiting until I'm 
good enough at soldering to also make it wireless and use my 20-year-old Reveal 
Technologies keyboard — it was wonderfully quiet & low-resistance, not at all 
normal for a mechanical keyboard.

It'd also be fun to learn how to wire up my old much-loved Apple IIgs (Apple 
Desktop Bus) keyboard, but I suspect a PC or modern Mac wouldn't know how to 
react to the incoming data.  I'm also not sure how long I'd be able to stand the 
stiffness & noise of its keys! :-)

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#5269

In article <9oNYv.88143$Em1.14168@fx10.iad>,
D.D. <usenet.xyzzyx@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>It'd also be fun to learn how to wire up my old much-loved Apple IIgs (Apple 
>Desktop Bus) keyboard, but I suspect a PC or modern Mac wouldn't know how to 
>react to the incoming data.

Googling "adb usb adapter" turned up this:

http://www.amazon.com/Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-adapter/dp/B000067V8L

For the DIY approach, there's this:

http://www.scotttherobot.com/?p=755

I don't have a IIGS keyboard with which to test either of these, though, as
one computer is in a IIe case (and uses the IIe keyboard) and I have a
later-model (probably mid-'90s-vintage) keyboard for the other.

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/            Top-posting!
 \_^_/                              >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#5272

On Wed, 8 Oct 2014, Scott Alfter wrote:

> In article <9oNYv.88143$Em1.14168@fx10.iad>,
> D.D. <usenet.xyzzyx@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> It'd also be fun to learn how to wire up my old much-loved Apple IIgs (Apple
>> Desktop Bus) keyboard, but I suspect a PC or modern Mac wouldn't know how to
>> react to the incoming data.
>
> Googling "adb usb adapter" turned up this:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-adapter/dp/B000067V8L
>
> For the DIY approach, there's this:
>
> http://www.scotttherobot.com/?p=755
>
> I don't have a IIGS keyboard with which to test either of these, though, as
> one computer is in a IIe case (and uses the IIe keyboard) and I have a
> later-model (probably mid-'90s-vintage) keyboard for the other.
>
Macintosh adb keyboards work with the IIGS, though I recall someone giving 
a qualifier so it may not be all Macintosh adb keyboards.

   Michael

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#5276

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1410090109590.18472@darkstar.example.org>,
Michael Black  <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Oct 2014, Scott Alfter wrote:
>
>> In article <9oNYv.88143$Em1.14168@fx10.iad>,
>> D.D. <usenet.xyzzyx@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>>> It'd also be fun to learn how to wire up my old much-loved Apple IIgs (Apple
>>> Desktop Bus) keyboard, but I suspect a PC or modern Mac wouldn't know how to
>>> react to the incoming data.
>>
>> Googling "adb usb adapter" turned up this:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-adapter/dp/B000067V8L
>>
>> For the DIY approach, there's this:
>>
>> http://www.scotttherobot.com/?p=755
>>
>> I don't have a IIGS keyboard with which to test either of these, though, as
>> one computer is in a IIe case (and uses the IIe keyboard) and I have a
>> later-model (probably mid-'90s-vintage) keyboard for the other.
>>
>Macintosh adb keyboards work with the IIGS, though I recall someone giving 
>a qualifier so it may not be all Macintosh adb keyboards.

There are a handful that don't.  Apple made a split "ergonomic" keyboard at
one point; that is one of the ones that doesn't.

I'm pretty sure the OP was looking to connect an ADB keyboard (in his case,
the IIGS keyboard) to a new computer with USB, though.

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/            Top-posting!
 \_^_/                              >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#5258

On 10/06/2014 09:54 PM, Will Honea wrote:
> Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> Indeed. Wouldn't be without mine. I have three in constant use - one at
>> work, one right here and one in my workshop. And about ten spares....
>>
>> This one is vintage 1992, in daily use. One of the others is 1989...
>
> I've got a box full of old IBM boat anchors - full travel, tactile click
> feel, etc. keyboards but they are all the old style kdb interface type.  I'd
> love to find a usable USB converter for them.  That's still my favorite
> device, even if it weighs more than my laptop.

http://www.monoprice.com/Search/Index?keyword=usb+ps2+adapter

Radio Shack used to have them for ~$15 or so.  Used to :-(

-- 
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
666øF -- the oven temperature for roast beast.

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#5263

The Real Bev wrote:
> Radio Shack used to have them for ~$15 or so.  Used to :-(
> 
If I ever get off my duff and look seriously, I suspect Mouser or Newegg 
could probably find one in all their old junk.  For that matter, I've got 
one or two DIN/USB adapters around from old MS`mice.  Worth a shot.

Hmmmm... Been a lot of years since I looked at the specs for the old 
interface ISTR it was a simple serial signal - just like USB but slower, 
different map....  OK, looks like a project for tomorrow - just what I need.

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#5266

On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:31:58 -0600, Will Honea wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> Radio Shack used to have them for ~$15 or so.  Used to :-(
>> 
> If I ever get off my duff and look seriously, I suspect Mouser or Newegg
> could probably find one in all their old junk.  For that matter, I've
> got one or two DIN/USB adapters around from old MS`mice.  Worth a shot.
> 
> Hmmmm... Been a lot of years since I looked at the specs for the old
> interface ISTR it was a simple serial signal - just like USB but slower,
> different map....  OK, looks like a project for tomorrow - just what I
> need.

Main problem seems to be the amount of power required, but a complete new 
board...

 http://mg8.org/rump/



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#5255

Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> writes:

> On Mon, 06 Oct 2014 02:50:40 -0700, Ant wrote:
>
>> Model M keyboard? [grin]
>
> Indeed. Wouldn't be without mine. I have three in constant use - one at 
> work, one right here and one in my workshop. And about ten spares....
>
> This one is vintage 1992, in daily use. One of the others is 1989...

I actually got a model F some time ago, the PC AT keyboard, from that
guy who bought a warehouse full of unused IBM keyboards. Unfortunately
the F8 key doesn't work, no click and no function... I wonder if it's
easy to fix? 

Although I wasn't too happy with the keyboard in general. While the
layout has the function keys and control in the correct places the arrow
keys and the six other keys on top of those aren't there.  I didn't
think I'd miss those but it turns out I do. Also esc is in the numeric
pad but that's not too bad.

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#5232

On 2014-10-04, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> https://jseliger.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/desktop-pcs-arent-going-anywhere-despite-the-growth-of-phones-and-tablets%E2%80%94because-theyre-cheap/
>
>    I'm tired of articles like "As PCs Wane, Companies Look to Tablets" You
>    know why PCs aren't going anywhere? Because they're cheap. You can buy
>    them reasonably close to cost. If you want the least expensive means of
>    computing possible, you can't beat PCs now and won't be able to for
>    years, at the very earliest. Sure, "making them has not been a great
>    business for most American companies for almost a decade," but that's
>    because consumers are deriving so much surplus from PCs. They're not
>    close to commodities. Which is great for buyers, if not sellers.
>
>    The industry, the reporters who cover the industry, bloggers, and other
>    people with a stake in the action want you to believe "TABLETS TABLETS
>    TABLETS ARE COOL!!!!" because they want you to buy relatively
>    high-margin tablets. Those tablets are high-margin because they combine
>    commodity hardware with OS lock-in. The industry wants to move closer to
>    Apple's model, since Apple gets away with what it does because a) it has
>    great design and b) for a long time, and maybe up to the present, OS X
>    was more fun and in some respects better designed than Windows. Lock-in
>    and high margins? What's not to love from a business perspective?
>
>    ...

... and corporate IT drones can fix and extend desktops, as can many
home users or their local computer shop or friendly geek.  Tablets are
mostly beyond them.  A desktop set-up doesn't fit under your jumper for
smuggling out of the office, either.  Then there's the software; if all
your standard document forms and legal clauses and so on are in
Wordperfect files and you need DOS 3 to make them work then a desktop
machine can be made to cope.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#5233

I use my laptop as a desktop PC. That is to say, I never move it from
its place on the desk. 'Why don't you use a desktop?' I hear you
ask. Because a laptop uses less power, and less room.

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#5234

In article <7zy4su74u3.fsf@example.com>, David Hume
<David.Hume@hushmail.com> wrote:

> I use my laptop as a desktop PC. That is to say, I never move it from
> its place on the desk. 'Why don't you use a desktop?' I hear you
> ask. Because a laptop uses less power, and less room.

A laptop here would use considerable more room.

-- 
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then 
 quietly strangled." - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907-1989)

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