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Slashcott enters second week (?!)

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  Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-16 20:59 +0000
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Koen Lefever <koen.lefever@gmail.com> - 2014-02-16 15:57 -0800
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-17 09:21 +0100
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-17 09:36 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-17 05:01 +0501
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-17 13:35 +0000
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-17 12:26 +1226
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-17 18:16 +0100
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? invis <invis@invis.net> - 2014-02-17 17:30 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? cykros@devio.us - 2014-02-17 22:50 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Lance Orner <lance@orner.invalid.net> - 2014-02-17 09:45 -0800
          Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-17 19:54 +0000
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-17 00:00 -0800
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-17 10:06 -0500
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-17 16:22 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-17 16:28 +0000
          Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) cykros@devio.us - 2014-02-17 23:02 +0000
          Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-18 00:34 +0100
            Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Johannes Grassler <jgr-usenet@btw23.de> - 2014-02-18 23:45 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-17 17:43 +0000
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-18 01:55 +0200
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-18 07:37 +0100
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? dialmove <dialmove@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 13:07 +0000
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? dialmove <dialmove@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 13:16 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-18 08:02 +0802
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-18 22:51 +0100
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-19 01:56 +0156
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Lance Orner <lance@orner.invalid.net> - 2014-02-18 19:47 -0800
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-19 08:58 +0200
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-19 01:36 +0136
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? 2phar <none@example.com> - 2014-02-18 00:08 +0000
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-18 07:12 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Koen Lefever <koen.lefever@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 05:41 -0800
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-18 20:24 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-02-21 17:16 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-02-26 12:33 -0500
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-26 18:31 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-26 21:07 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "Andy K." <andy.k466@gmail.com> - 2014-03-02 17:52 +0100
                    Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-02 19:56 +0000
                      Re: Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2014-03-02 14:15 -0600
                        Re: Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-02 23:47 +0000
                      Re: Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-02 20:46 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-02 23:24 -0500
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-19 01:47 +0147
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-02-26 12:31 -0500
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-26 14:07 -0600
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-26 14:30 -0600
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-02 23:38 -0500
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-03 00:54 -0600
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 07:31 +0000
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-03 09:46 +0200
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 08:02 +0000
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-03-03 07:55 -0600
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-03 14:22 +0000
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2014-03-03 17:31 +0100
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 17:13 +0000
                        Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-03 19:55 +0000
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 22:05 +0000
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Bjoern Hoehrmann <bjoern@hoehrmann.de> - 2014-03-04 14:06 +0100
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-03 09:43 -0600
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 21:11 +0000
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-03 13:19 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-03 13:55 +0000
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-03 14:21 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) "Elizabeth T. Knuth" <eknuth@csbsju.edu> - 2014-02-22 13:57 -0600
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2014-02-22 20:12 +0000
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-20 10:15 +0000
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-20 12:25 +0200

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#462 — Slashcott enters second week (?!)

I just had a look at the altslashdot.org website, where I learned

1. There is now a note requesting we maintain the boycott of Slashdot
through another week.  That's almost certainly because they don't have
the soylentnews website up and running, and it seems some showstopper
bugs remain.

2. There are some significant changes being made to the moderation
system, but I didn't take enough time to figure out in detail what they
entail.

3. The key actors seem to have relented to a more community-led model
for things like moderation. 

Not sure what it all means.  Meanwhile, I'm not sure I care, since I'm
happy here and get to compose my posts in Vim  :)

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#465

What I'm wondering about: did the slashcott have any effect on /. page hits and on numbers of comments?

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#474

On 2014-02-16, Koen Lefever <koen.lefever@gmail.com> wrote:
> What I'm wondering about: did the slashcott have any effect on
> /. page hits and on numbers of comments? 

Definitely. Question is: Positive or negative? Significant? (Positive
because people are visiting to see how strong the impact is and news
on other sites report on slashdots supposed downfall. Negative due to
intended effect of the boycott.)

Rg. soylentnews:
soylentnews.org still redirects to the wiki, but instead of showing
the wiki it shows an error 
"[an error occurred while processing this directive]"

-- 
Trolling is a art!

My public-key is available on http://tinyurl.com/ps9r99y

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#476

In article <4c68bf01-2433-4765-ba98-b05a6006ea20@googlegroups.com>,
 Koen Lefever <koen.lefever@gmail.com> wrote:

> What I'm wondering about: did the slashcott have any effect on /. page hits 
> and on numbers of comments?

I just had a look around, and below are the number of comments at score 
zero or above.

Bigger question will be: how many users and comments will Soylent or 
comp.misc start getting?  I'm less interested in how much damage we do 
to Dice than how well we can start up an interesting and vibrant, new 
community.

Time Warner Deal is how Comcast Will Fight Cord Cutters: (313 comments)
LA Times: Snowden had 3 helpers inside NSA: (132 comments)
Ask Slash: is crowdfunding the future of Sci-Fi: (99 comments)
Elon Musk says larger batteries might be on the way: (152 comments)
Apple's Hiring Spree of BioSensor Experts Continues ...: (48 comments)
The Road to VR: (46 comments)

That's enough for me.  In my opinion, a hundred or so comments per post 
is not very impressive, by Slashdot standards, so the slashcott seems to 
taking hold.  Casual visitors to the site won't be overwhelmed by the 
quality of the discussion taking place.  Furthermore, let's take a look 
at the highest-commented article, the Elon Musk/Batteries one.  Here's 
the comment distribution:

0: 152 comments
1: 110 comments
2: 102 comments
3: 12 comments
4: 6 comments
5: 6 comments

That says to me that while relatively "a lot" of people posted, the bulk 
of those comments fell in the 0-2 range, which is the zone usually 
reserved for the witty repartee, inside joke-repeater, or 
interesting-but-not-too interesting.  (In sum, the score I usually get) 
:)

Not a great looking conversation, if you ask me.  I had a look at User 
IDs to see if it was mostly newer users, but there were some lowish (5 
figure) IDs in the game as well.

Finally, not one single reference in the comments about Soylent, the 
Slashcott, or Fuck Beta.  Not sure if all the folks that would normally 
be posting that stuff is now off the site, or if those kind of posts are 
being filtered out the way they seem to have been last week.

Interesting times.

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#479 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

> Bigger question will be: how many users and comments will Soylent or comp.misc start 
> getting? I'm less interested in how much damage we do to Dice than how well we 
> can start up an interesting and vibrant, new community. 

Looking at the first 10 posts on each site, the average number of comments so far 
is:

soylent news: 27
comp.misc:       3
slashdot:       126

So for the moment if you want the best comments, slashdot > soylent  > comp.misc


-- 
View this thread at http://squte.com/node/4459#comment-10447

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#481 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

In article <4459-10447@usenet.squte.com>, "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> 
wrote:

> > Bigger question will be: how many users and comments will Soylent or 
> > comp.misc start 
> > getting? I'm less interested in how much damage we do to Dice than how well 
> > we 
> > can start up an interesting and vibrant, new community. 
> 
> Looking at the first 10 posts on each site, the average number of comments so 
> far 
> is:
> 
> soylent news: 27
> comp.misc:       3
> slashdot:       126
> 
> So for the moment if you want the best comments, slashdot > soylent  > 
> comp.misc

The obvious conclusion for me is, not surprisingly, you don't spend your 
energy on making the "other site" suck.  You spend it making "your site" 
awesome, and the traffic will happen naturally.  It's interesting and 
exciting to be here at this time, watching it happen!

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#497 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

There's also a network effect: the more comments a site has the more interesting 
it is, so the more visitors it gets, so the more comments it gets.
Fortunately soylentnews seems to of already reached a tipping point where its going 
to keep growing.
>  It's interesting and exciting to be here at this time, watching it happen
More competition is more choice, so its all good.




-- 
View this thread at http://squte.com/node/4459#comment-10465

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#493 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

On 2014-02-17, tdk <forum.tdk@squte.com> wrote:
> Looking at the first 10 posts on each site, the average number of comments so far 
> is:
>
> soylent news: 27
> comp.misc:       3
> slashdot:       126
>
> So for the moment if you want the best comments, slashdot > soylent  > comp.mi

This seems to be only considering quality, not quantity. Without
adding personal sympathy I would expect that soylentnews and usenet
have a bigger share of the more dedicated users and nerds, since
staying on slashdot is probably the laziest option. Also it should be
considered that soylentnews does not appear to run stable yet - I
signed up for a new account and it took hours until I got the mail,
and visiting the site five times, I got error messages four times. So,
from my side there is a good chance I would have added more comments
if the site was already more reliable.

For usenet this looks not so good, which is sad - I like usenet most
for discussions.

-- 
Trolling is a art!

My public-key is available on http://tinyurl.com/ps9r99y

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#495 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

On 17/02/2014 17:16, q.kontinuum wrote:
> For usenet this looks not so good, which is sad - I like usenet most
> for discussions.

Give it time - I don't know about everyone else, but I'm still getting
used to checking Usenet again. It's early days yet.

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#504 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

invis <invis@invis.net> wrote:
> On 17/02/2014 17:16, q.kontinuum wrote:
>> For usenet this looks not so good, which is sad - I like usenet most
>> for discussions.
> 
> Give it time - I don't know about everyone else, but I'm still getting
> used to checking Usenet again. It's early days yet.

I'm there with ya...I have newsbeuter in one region of gnu screen, and
tin in another.  And as others have mentioned, I get to write posts in
Vim :-).


 

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#496

On 2014-02-17, RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> wrote:
> In article <4c68bf01-2433-4765-ba98-b05a6006ea20@googlegroups.com>,
> That's enough for me.  In my opinion, a hundred or so comments per post 
> is not very impressive, by Slashdot standards, so the slashcott seems to 
> taking hold.  Casual visitors to the site won't be overwhelmed by the 
> quality of the discussion taking place.  

Slashdot was never about the article (most people never read them),
but it was instead the informed comments behind them.  People keep
trying to create a news site, but there are plenty of them, but you
want a comment site.

I don't see Soylent getting enough people over to make it interesting.
Usenet could be interesting, because of it's mechanics, but it's a
long ways away.  There will probably be a couple dozen people posting
for some time to come.

Want comments?  Reddit is the king now.  Many of the technical
subreddits are incredibly insightful, and they've got a working
moderation system.  It has it's faults, but it also has a big
community.

-- 
  Lance Orner (lance@orner.net)

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#498

In article <gfu9ta-k5f.ln1@quartz.orner.dyndns.org>,
 Lance Orner <lance@orner.invalid.net> wrote:

> On 2014-02-17, RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> wrote:
> > In article <4c68bf01-2433-4765-ba98-b05a6006ea20@googlegroups.com>,

> Want comments?  Reddit is the king now.  Many of the technical
> subreddits are incredibly insightful, and they've got a working
> moderation system.  It has it's faults, but it also has a big
> community.

I'm not sure I agree.  Reddit has tons of comments but from the point of 
view of someone looking for useful information, a lot of it is snarky, 
insider-joke wordplay.  (Some of that is great, I just consider it more 
entertainment than information). I subscribe to a couple of sub-reddiits 
too, including Bodhi Linux and Vim and one about fountain pens, and 
while off of the main, high volume boards the comment quality gets 
better, it's still pretty weak compared to your average +5 Slashdot 
comment.

I think a lot of people, posting from their phones these days, don't 
have the termperament or the time/energy to post comments of quality.  
That is doubly true if you're wrestling with a "smart" keyboard whose 
predictive text is bonkers.

My point just is: lots of posts on Reddit, but it's also chock full of 
one sentence/four word snarky joke comments, not something better.

Another bit of anecdotal evidence.  A year ago when I was working hard 
to get the word out about my book, I paid for an ad to run on Reddit for 
48 hours.  It led to thousands and thousands of hits that entire period.  
My webserver was smoking.  But the stats show that the average visitor 
lasted about 15 seconds or less on http://www.dictatorshandbook.net 
before boogying on, and I think it led to fewer than ten sales.  I 
concluded that Redditors hit my site hoping for a quick picture joke, 
and when they discovered it was a serious site and a serious book 
discussing a serious topic (autocracy and tyranny), they got the hell 
out of there.  

Reddit is for entertainment, not information.  :)  </climbs off of 
stump.>

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#468

On 2014-02-16 20:59:59 +0000, RS Wood said:

> Not sure what it all means.  Meanwhile, I'm not sure I care, since I'm
> happy here and get to compose my posts in Vim  :)

I'm with you.  I think I'm about done screwing around with web forums.  
If I can't find it on Usenet I don't need it.  But Vim?  It's time to 
step up to Emacs (just kidding, I don't care for either one).

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#488

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 20:59:59 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
<rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:

>I just had a look at the altslashdot.org website, where I learned
>
>1. There is now a note requesting we maintain the boycott of Slashdot
>through another week.  That's almost certainly because they don't have
>the soylentnews website up and running, and it seems some showstopper
>bugs remain.

While I am in support of soylentnews.org and fully intend to
participate in the comments, I think a week of the slashcott is
enough. I still entertain a (admittedly vague) hope that Dice will
come to their senses and reverse course, but they have no incentive to
do so if the audience that is demanding they do so has no intention of
returning anyway. The slashcott was the stick, now it's time to show
'em the carrot.

That and I'm seriously jonesin' for some slashdot ;-)

>2. There are some significant changes being made to the moderation
>system, but I didn't take enough time to figure out in detail what they
>entail.

My understanding is that they are mainly adjusting the number of
moderation points that will be made available, largely because they
don't have the audience to support the default numbers in slashcode.
If they went with the defaults, everybody would either end up with +5
comments, or unused mod-points, or be unable to comment because they
modded a thread. The Soylent team is trying to find a new balance of
points.


>3. The key actors seem to have relented to a more community-led model
>for things like moderation. 

>Not sure what it all means.  Meanwhile, I'm not sure I care, since I'm
>happy here and get to compose my posts in Vim  :)

What I gathered was the fear that a few people would control soylent
was based on how the soylent team was handling the set up of the site.
They always intended for the actual discussion to follow the slashdot
model. Which makes sense, since even robert malda maintained control
of the actual running of slashdot for himself and his band. 

Anyway, I don't know if soylent will be able to capture the magic of
slashdot, but I intend to give them a chance before I write them off.

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#500

>
> While I am in support of soylentnews.org and fully intend to
> participate in the comments, I think a week of the slashcott is
> enough. I still entertain a (admittedly vague) hope that Dice will
> come to their senses and reverse course, but they have no incentive to
> do so if the audience that is demanding they do so has no intention of
> returning anyway. The slashcott was the stick, now it's time to show
> 'em the carrot.
>
> That and I'm seriously jonesin' for some slashdot ;-)
>

I just took a quick look around Slashdot. Things are pretty bad, in my view. The conversations are pretty shallow, insightful comments seemed pretty scarce, and the breadth of discussion was nowhere near what I would usually expect. Another week of Slashcott may well drive the last nail into the coffin.

I'm kind of torn. I started the past week thinking that I would avoid Slashdot in order to help send a message to Dice... in order to save the site. I'm not sure how I feel about it now. SoylentNews is actually starting to look promising, and we already have this place. However, the difficulty with this newsgroup is going to be achieving a critical mass of peopl
e that will actually reply to topics. We're already starting to see to see topics roll by with very few replies, maybe even none at all.

We all have varied interests, and there doesn't (yet) seem to be enough overlap to sustain many discussions for very long. We need more people to start reading the group.

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#501

By the way, is anyone having trouble reading my posts? I'm not certain that it's handling line breaks the way it should.

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#506

wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> wrote:
> By the way, is anyone having trouble reading my posts? I'm not certain that it's handling line breaks the way it should.


Looks fine enough to me, just long lines wrapping around the screen. 
Only gripe is that it wraps even if it's at the middle of the word,
but I think I can blame tin for weird wrapping behavior.  Hardly 
a deal breaker though. 

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#508

On 2014-02-17, wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> wrote:
> By the way, is anyone having trouble reading my posts? I'm not
> certain that it's handling line breaks the way it should. 

Your lines are sometimes a bit long. 
I think, traditionally a line in a post should not exceed 72
characters. slrn still warns when a post exeeds this limitation.
(IIRC the reason was that some people still used 80char
terminals, and together with a small frame after the 5th reply the
text would become barely readable. However, nowadays this strict 72
character limitation is probably outdated.)

However, at least slrn does wrap line on key "w", so it does not give
any serious inconvenience.

Br,
Thorsten

-- 
Trolling is a art!

My public-key is available on http://tinyurl.com/ps9r99y

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#547

q.kontinuum <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2014-02-17, wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> By the way, is anyone having trouble reading my posts? I'm not
>> certain that it's handling line breaks the way it should. 
>
> Your lines are sometimes a bit long. 
> I think, traditionally a line in a post should not exceed 72
> characters. slrn still warns when a post exeeds this limitation.
> (IIRC the reason was that some people still used 80char
> terminals, and together with a small frame after the 5th reply the
> text would become barely readable. However, nowadays this strict 72
> character limitation is probably outdated.)

I'd like to speak up in defence of this outdated rule:

While it is true that we have high resolution monitors at our disposal
today I am quite fond of the 80 character terminal standard: It allows
me to fit 3 terminals with content that plays by this rule next to each
other. I for one like putting all that screen real estate to good use
instead of wasting it all on one window.

Also, having to scan back and forth across that vast 1920 pixel expanse
is rather tiring. LaTeX, for instance, also defaults to very wide
margins because it's simply easier to read that way.

> However, at least slrn does wrap line on key "w", so it does not give
> any serious inconvenience.

That it does, but slrn's automatically wrapped text is harder on the the
eyes than text that has been properly formatted by its author. Of course
a better line wrapping algorithm (such as vim's for instance) would go a
long way there.

Cheers,

Johannes

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#509 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

> Another week of Slashcott may well drive the last nail into the coffin
I would hate to see Slashdot shut down as a result of the slashcott. Specially if 
Dice was willing to abandon Beta after all.
The best case is to have Slashdot, SoylentNews /and/ comp.misc. I intend to choose 
choice and support Slashdot so long as they hold off the Beta.

> We need more people to start reading the group. 
One way of doing that is to cross-post to any relevant groups. 
Cross-posting is often used by trolls, so you have to make sure it is relevant to 
both groups and to be on the safe side have 2 groups max, or you'll get flamed. 
Some of the questions about news readers could usefully be x-posted to news.software.readers, 
for instance.











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