Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #80477 > unrolled thread

I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python

Contents

  I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google.  What does the print function do? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2014-11-10 10:56 -0800
    Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2014-11-10 20:24 +0100
    Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google.  What does the print function do? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-11-10 14:49 -0500
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-11-10 14:59 -0500
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-10 12:16 -0800
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-11-10 23:10 +0000
    Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-10 20:04 +0000
    Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google.  What does the print function do? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-10 21:00 +0000
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google.  What does the print function do? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2014-11-10 13:45 -0800
        Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-10 15:31 -0700
      RE: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? "Clayton Kirkwood" <crk@godblessthe.us> - 2014-11-10 15:21 -0800
        Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2014-11-13 23:22 +0100
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google.  What does the print function do? Manolo Martínez <manolo@austrohungaro.com> - 2014-11-10 22:36 +0100
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 19:35 +1100
        Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-14 21:58 +1100
          Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-14 22:15 +1100
      RE: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? "Clayton Kirkwood" <crk@godblessthe.us> - 2014-11-11 21:39 -0800
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 20:15 +1100
    Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google.  What does the print function do? Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-11-10 21:36 +0000
      Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google.  What does the print function do? alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-11 09:00 +0000

#80477 — I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money so I want to be one.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#80479 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

sohcahtoa82@gmail.com wrote:

> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me hints,
> just give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not actually
> interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make
> lots of money so I want to be one.

I'm sorry I have to decline your kind offer unless you also let me do your 
dishes and walk your dog.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80482

In article <b509998d-c547-4638-8810-0388c0894d7f@googlegroups.com>,
 sohcahtoa82@gmail.com wrote:

> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me hints, just 
> give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not actually interested 
> in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money 
> so I want to be one.

This post is a sine of the times.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80484 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <b509998d-c547-4638-8810-0388c0894d7f@googlegroups.com>,
>  sohcahtoa82@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me hints, just
>> give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not actually interested
>> in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money
>> so I want to be one.
>
> This post is a sine of the times.

Don't go off on a tangent.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80487 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On 11/10/2014 11:59 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article <b509998d-c547-4638-8810-0388c0894d7f@googlegroups.com>,
>>   sohcahtoa82@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me hints, just
>>> give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not actually interested
>>> in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money
>>> so I want to be one.
>>
>> This post is a sine of the times.
>
> Don't go off on a tangent.

Please!  We don't need all this hyperbole!

--
~Ethan~

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80497 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On 2014-11-10 20:16, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 11/10/2014 11:59 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
>>> In article <b509998d-c547-4638-8810-0388c0894d7f@googlegroups.com>,
>>>   sohcahtoa82@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me hints, just
>>>> give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not actually interested
>>>> in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money
>>>> so I want to be one.
>>>
>>> This post is a sine of the times.
>>
>> Don't go off on a tangent.
>
> Please!  We don't need all this hyperbole!
>
... cos it's off-topic.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80485 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On 10/11/2014 19:24, Peter Otten wrote:
> sohcahtoa82@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me hints,
>> just give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not actually
>> interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make
>> lots of money so I want to be one.
>
> I'm sorry I have to decline your kind offer unless you also let me do your
> dishes and walk your dog.
>

Quote Of The Day/Week/Month/Year/Decade/Millenium*

* please delete whichever you feel is appropriate

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80490

On 2014-11-10, sohcahtoa82@gmail.com <sohcahtoa82@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me
> hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not
> actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software
> engineers make lots of money so I want to be one.

That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I just forgot my whole
                                  at               philosophy of life!!!
                              gmail.com            

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80494

On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:01:05 PM UTC-8, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2014-11-10, sohcahtoa82 <sohcahtoa82> wrote:
> 
> > Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me
> > hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not
> > actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software
> > engineers make lots of money so I want to be one.
> 
> That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages.
> 

Either you and I have a different definition of what a troll is, or your ability to detect parody and recognize a joke is a bit off.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80495 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:45 PM,  <sohcahtoa82@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:01:05 PM UTC-8, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2014-11-10, sohcahtoa82 <sohcahtoa82> wrote:
>>
>> > Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me
>> > hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not
>> > actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software
>> > engineers make lots of money so I want to be one.
>>
>> That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages.
>>
>
> Either you and I have a different definition of what a troll is, or your ability to detect parody and recognize a joke is a bit off.

The former, probably. It may have been amusing, but it was nonetheless
an off-topic post seeking to get a reaction, i.e. a troll.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80508 — RE: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-
>bounces+crk=godblessthe.us@python.org] On Behalf Of Grant Edwards
>Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 1:01 PM
>To: python-list@python.org
>Subject: Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What
>does the print function do?
>
>On 2014-11-10, sohcahtoa82@gmail.com <sohcahtoa82@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour.  Don't give me
>> hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade.  I'm not
>> actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software
>> engineers make lots of money so I want to be one.
>
>That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages.

Uh, how are you going to maintain a programming job if you don't know how to
program? I don't want to act but I know Brad Pitt makes lots of money doing
it, so I want to be Brad Pitt. Not! Not going to happen. Although I suspect
for a price you could bring all of your professional programming jobs to
somebody here, but I think you would pay out more than you would make.

Clayton
>
>--
>Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I just forgot my
>whole
>                                  at               philosophy of life!!!
>                              gmail.com
>--
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80707 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

"Clayton Kirkwood" <crk@godblessthe.us> writes:

> Although I suspect for a price you could bring all of your
> professional programming jobs to somebody here, but I think you
> would pay out more than you would make.

s/ here/ else/ and your assumption can be falsified

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80509

On 11/10/14 at 09:00pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
> That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages.

That, on the other hand, is a pretty decent bit of trolling.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80510 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Clayton Kirkwood <crk@godblessthe.us> wrote:
> Uh, how are you going to maintain a programming job if you don't know how to
> program? I don't want to act but I know Brad Pitt makes lots of money doing
> it, so I want to be Brad Pitt. Not! Not going to happen. Although I suspect
> for a price you could bring all of your professional programming jobs to
> somebody here, but I think you would pay out more than you would make.
>

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it does happen. I've been
writing code for over two decades, and trying to earn a living at it
for one and a bit, and in all that time, I have *never even once*
found a job by applying in the classic way and sending in a resume.
There are blog posts out there about how large proportions of
applicants can't even write simple code on command... and I've taken
the questions and shown them to my siblings (who protest that they're
definitely not programmers), proving that a basic smattering of
mathematical nous puts you above people who are trying to earn money
from coding.

It's like a carpenter, looking for a skilled assistant, and getting
people who don't know which end of a saw to hold.

It's like a prospective accountant not knowing the words "credit" and "debit".

It's like someone trying to rule a country just on the basis of
looking good on television... okay, so maybe there's one other
"industry" where the incompetent have a shot at it.

But fortunately, it's not everyone. There are the "bad eggs" who waste
everyone's time, but there are plenty of truly competent people too.
It's just a matter of figuring out which are the "will-be-competent"
and which are the "totally lazy and not going anywhere", and there's
not always a lot to distinguish them by.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80752 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

Chris Angelico wrote:

> There are blog posts out there about how large proportions of
> applicants can't even write simple code on command... and I've taken
> the questions and shown them to my siblings (who protest that they're
> definitely not programmers), proving that a basic smattering of
> mathematical nous puts you above people who are trying to earn money
> from coding.
> 
> It's like a carpenter, looking for a skilled assistant, and getting
> people who don't know which end of a saw to hold.

http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

Not everyone agrees that this is a thing:

http://www.skorks.com/2010/10/99-out-of-100-programmers-cant-program-i-call-bullshit/

I'm inclined to accept that maybe 99 out of 100 *applications* for
programming jobs are from people who can't program, but I don't think that
99 out of 100 *programmers* can't program. It's probably more like 65,
maybe 70 out of 100, tops.

Ha ha only serious.

More here:

http://www.protocolostomy.com/2010/03/15/programmers-that-cant-program/




-- 
Steven

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80755 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/
>
> Not everyone agrees that this is a thing:
>
> http://www.skorks.com/2010/10/99-out-of-100-programmers-cant-program-i-call-bullshit/
>
> I'm inclined to accept that maybe 99 out of 100 *applications* for
> programming jobs are from people who can't program, but I don't think that
> 99 out of 100 *programmers* can't program. It's probably more like 65,
> maybe 70 out of 100, tops.

I was talking only about *applications* at that point. From the point
of view of an applicant, the massive noise of incompetent people
trying to get the job means it's really hard to get heard, especially
since a lot of the incompetents can make their resumes look great. [1]
So getting a job you apply for based on your own skill is... not easy.
At least, I'm fairly sure it's not easy. All I know is that it's never
happened to me.

[1] They probably learned from all the other department heads.
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-02-20/

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80597 — RE: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-
>bounces+crk=godblessthe.us@python.org] On Behalf Of Chris Angelico
>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 12:36 AM
>Cc: python-list@python.org
>Subject: Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What
>does the print function do?
>
>On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Clayton Kirkwood <crk@godblessthe.us>
>wrote:
>> Uh, how are you going to maintain a programming job if you don't know
>> how to program? I don't want to act but I know Brad Pitt makes lots of
>> money doing it, so I want to be Brad Pitt. Not! Not going to happen.
>> Although I suspect for a price you could bring all of your
>> professional programming jobs to somebody here, but I think you would
>pay out more than you would make.
>>
>
>I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it does happen. I've been
>writing code for over two decades, and trying to earn a living at it for
>one and a bit, and in all that time, I have *never even once* found a
>job by applying in the classic way and sending in a resume.
>There are blog posts out there about how large proportions of applicants
>can't even write simple code on command... and I've taken the questions
>and shown them to my siblings (who protest that they're definitely not
>programmers), proving that a basic smattering of mathematical nous puts
>you above people who are trying to earn money from coding.
>
>It's like a carpenter, looking for a skilled assistant, and getting
>people who don't know which end of a saw to hold.
>
>It's like a prospective accountant not knowing the words "credit" and
>"debit".
>
>It's like someone trying to rule a country just on the basis of looking
>good on television... okay, so maybe there's one other "industry" where
>the incompetent have a shot at it.
>
>But fortunately, it's not everyone. There are the "bad eggs" who waste
>everyone's time, but there are plenty of truly competent people too.
>It's just a matter of figuring out which are the "will-be-competent"
>and which are the "totally lazy and not going anywhere", and there's not
>always a lot to distinguish them by.
>
>ChrisA

Chris, you're kidding, right? People get programming jobs without the
knowledge? How do they keep them? Don't hiring people look at code examples,
or previous employment? Ask relevant questions? My wife works for the county
district attorney's office, and she tells me a lot about the incompetence of
her co-workers and how they just kind of don't do their job, the petty
personalities. My daughter works for AAA and tells how little co-workers
know and are not willing to learn anything, but expect raises, etc. It's
really hard for me to believe. I've worked in professional environs like
Intel and Lockheed. You didn't keep a job long if you screwed around, and
except for one person, everyone worked hard and earned their living,
learning as much as they could, and generally got along. Some were great
work groups that were incredibly rewarding and enjoyable. I have trouble
believing the work ethics and behavior my family tells me about. Totally
foreign to me.

Clayton
>--
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80599 — Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Clayton Kirkwood <crk@godblessthe.us> wrote:
> Chris, you're kidding, right? People get programming jobs without the
> knowledge? How do they keep them? Don't hiring people look at code examples,
> or previous employment? Ask relevant questions?

Oh, I didn't say they *keep* the jobs, nor necessarily even get them!
(Although that can happen too - check out http://thedailywtf.com/ and
some of the stories of what former employees' code can look like.) I'm
talking about them applying, and then the potential employers have to
weed through the utter incompetents to find the few who actually know
what they're talking about. If the employer is himself/herself a
programmer, this is a huge waste of a skilled person's time; if not,
the short-listing of applicants will be highly flawed. Hence the
problem: it's so hard to pick the right applicants that the right
applicants end up not being picked - and so jobs remain unfilled (as I
can attest to - the same job postings keep coming up in my RSS feeds),
or incompetents get jobs and then get moved on.

Sure, you could figure out whether one person is worth hiring or not.
But when you have two hundred applications, can you afford to talk to
every single one of them? I doubt it. And that's the problem.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80493

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:56:18 -0800, sohcahtoa82 wrote:

> ... I know software engineers
> make lots of money so I want to be one.

I hear that pretty boy male escorts can make even more money than 
software engineers.

They also don't need to learn how to program, which is something software 
engineers do need to do, so it sounds as if you'd be better off signing 
up with an escort agency.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#80511

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:36:54 +0000, Denis McMahon wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:56:18 -0800, sohcahtoa82 wrote:
> 
>> ... I know software engineers make lots of money so I want to be one.
> 
> I hear that pretty boy male escorts can make even more money than
> software engineers.
> 
> They also don't need to learn how to program, which is something
> software engineers do need to do, so it sounds as if you'd be better off
> signing up with an escort agency.

in both cases you start at the bottom, as a rent boy you stay there



-- 
He thinks by infection, catching an opinion like a cold.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python

csiph-web