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Groups > comp.lang.python > #79469 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-10-22 16:30 -0400 |
| Last post | 2014-10-25 22:15 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 157 — 23 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python
I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 16:30 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 16:57 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 17:04 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2014-10-22 14:35 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 17:38 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-22 22:28 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 18:30 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 18:32 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-22 23:55 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 19:26 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-23 00:44 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 20:02 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-10-23 02:29 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 11:37 +1000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 21:52 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-22 19:58 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 23:05 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 20:16 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-10-23 02:31 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-10-23 00:09 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-23 00:10 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-23 09:23 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 10:00 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-23 20:23 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 09:53 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 09:15 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 10:04 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 15:55 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 13:01 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 13:07 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 13:39 -0600
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 16:15 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 16:44 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-10-23 22:03 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-23 19:13 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-10-23 23:14 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 14:32 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 21:56 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 10:38 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 01:51 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 11:04 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 02:13 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 08:56 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 10:35 -0600
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 10:10 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 12:37 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 03:47 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 09:56 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 13:03 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists "Albert Visser" <albert.visser@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 19:18 +0200
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 13:23 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 10:42 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 13:42 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 11:52 -0600
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 14:15 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 14:20 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-24 19:40 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 15:07 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 21:49 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-24 23:46 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 08:17 -0600
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-25 14:47 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2014-10-24 11:57 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 15:09 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2014-10-24 12:25 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 15:33 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2014-10-24 12:55 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 16:00 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 21:19 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 17:35 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 23:23 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-25 14:37 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-24 19:33 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 09:54 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 13:04 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 10:17 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-10-24 18:09 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 18:27 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 16:01 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-10-24 20:27 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 20:42 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 11:05 -0600
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 04:10 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-24 23:04 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 20:37 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 16:58 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-10-24 21:07 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 15:11 -0600
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 23:21 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 19:48 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 21:48 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 18:14 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-10-25 15:01 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 20:51 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-24 19:16 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 22:41 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-25 08:25 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-25 15:10 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-25 14:23 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-25 14:42 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-10-25 18:48 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-26 00:25 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-26 01:08 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-10-26 17:44 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-26 20:57 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 22:43 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 19:11 -0400
The “trials” in “trial and error” should be as simple as possible (was: I am out of trial and error again Lists) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-23 10:59 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-23 11:05 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 20:10 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-10-23 02:31 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 21:35 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-22 21:57 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-23 08:20 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 10:01 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 01:56 -0600
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-23 09:09 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 06:42 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 10:03 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 08:35 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2014-10-23 16:25 +0200
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 10:29 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 16:00 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2014-10-23 16:40 +0200
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-23 10:46 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2014-10-24 17:56 +0200
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 09:21 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Tobiah <toby@tobiah.org> - 2014-10-23 07:51 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-24 08:05 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 10:47 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2014-10-24 22:06 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-24 09:12 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 10:48 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 18:26 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 18:58 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 16:27 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 19:48 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 19:57 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-10-25 01:20 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 20:37 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2014-10-25 11:52 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 20:46 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 21:09 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-25 15:25 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 22:40 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 16:49 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 22:55 -0700
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 17:03 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-25 18:44 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 10:24 -0700
Side-effects [was Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-26 17:12 +1100
Re: Side-effects [was Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:42 +1100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2014-10-27 22:26 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-25 00:27 +0100
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 23:35 +0000
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2014-10-24 20:15 -0400
Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 22:15 +0000
Page 6 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 Next page →
| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-25 18:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15176.1414277365.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79569 |
On 10/25/2014 2:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:38:31 -0400, Seymore4Head > <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> declaimed the following: > >> >> I do get the difference. I don't actually use Python 2. I use >> CodeSkulptor. I do have Python 3 installed. Actually I have Python 2 >> installed but IDLE defaults to Python 3. This is wrong. Pythonx.y runs Idlex.y, not vice versa. Seymore installed some version of Python 3 as default, as he should have, and 'Edit with Idle' opens the default version of Python, with its version of Idle. >> So it is a pain to actually load Python 2. Not really, neither on linux or Windows. > So don't use Idle... Since Seymore analysis is wrong, this advice in not the answer. If he is running on Windows, it is dubious in that the Windows console interpreter is a pain to use. > Open up a Windows command shell and invoke Python > without giving a script file to execute. > > C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>python python -m idlelib will open the corresponding Idle. So will the Start menu entry or an icon pinned to the taskbar. > C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>python3 You must have done something extra to make this work on Windows. -- Terry Jan Reedy
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-26 00:25 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15178.1414279546.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79569 |
On 25/10/2014 23:48, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 10/25/2014 2:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >> On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:38:31 -0400, Seymore4Head >> <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> declaimed the following: >> >>> >>> I do get the difference. I don't actually use Python 2. I use >>> CodeSkulptor. I do have Python 3 installed. Actually I have Python 2 >>> installed but IDLE defaults to Python 3. > > This is wrong. Pythonx.y runs Idlex.y, not vice versa. > Seymore installed some version of Python 3 as default, as he should > have, and 'Edit with Idle' opens the default version of Python, with its > version of Idle. > > >> So it is a pain to actually load Python 2. > > Not really, neither on linux or Windows. > >> So don't use Idle... > > Since Seymore analysis is wrong, this advice in not the answer. > If he is running on Windows, it is dubious in that the Windows console > interpreter is a pain to use. > > > Open up a Windows command shell and invoke Python >> without giving a script file to execute. >> >> C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>python > > python -m idlelib will open the corresponding Idle. So will the Start > menu entry or an icon pinned to the taskbar. > >> C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>python3 > > You must have done something extra to make this work on Windows. > The Python launcher for Windows should be taken into account here http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/ -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-26 01:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15189.1414300106.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79569 |
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 18:48:59 -0400, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
declaimed the following:
>> C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>python3
>
>You must have done something extra to make this work on Windows.
Possibly hand-edited my system PATH -- I've got a rather nasty one
(inserting line breaks)...
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>path
PATH=C:\Program Files (x86)\Microchip\mplabc18\v3.47\mpasm;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microchip\mplabc18\v3.47\bin;C:\SPARK\gpl-2014\bin;
C:\GtkAda\bin;C:\Python_x64\Python27\;C:\Python_x64\Python27\Scripts;
c:\Python_x64\Python27\Tools\scripts;c:\apps\wscite;C:\GNAT\2014\bin;
C:\Windows\system32;C:\Windows;C:\Windows\System32\Wbem;
C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\;c:\apps\r\r-2.15.3\bin;
C:\Program Files (x86)\SimpleIDE\propeller-gcc\bin;c:\apps\eclipse;
C:\Python_x64\Python33\;C:\Python_x64\Python33\Scripts;
C:\Python_x64\Python33\Tools\Scripts;c:\Python_x86\Python27;
c:\Python_x86\Python27\Tools\scripts;C:\Program Files\Calibre2\;
C:\Program Files\rexx.org\Regina;%APPDATA%\Python\Scripts;
c:\apps;c:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.6\bin;c:\apps\Rexx-Ext;
C:\Program Files\TortoiseSVN\bin;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Acronis\SnapAPI\;
C:\Apps\gnuplot\bin;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microchip\MPLAB C32 Suite\bin;
C:\Users\Wulfraed\AppData\Roaming\Python\Scripts
C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
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| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-26 17:44 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15203.1414359909.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79569 |
On 10/26/2014 1:08 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 18:48:59 -0400, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> > declaimed the following: > >>> C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>python3 >> >> You must have done something extra to make this work on Windows. > > Possibly hand-edited my system PATH -- I've got a rather nasty one > (inserting line breaks)... I was referring to the existence of 'python3' (and 'python2'). I presume these are created by the ActiveState installer that you said you used. There are not created by the PSF Windows installer. It instead creates 'py' linked to the new launcher; 'py -2' and 'py -3' launch the latest available python 2 or python3. -- Terry Jan Reedy
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| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-26 20:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15214.1414371441.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79569 |
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 17:44:51 -0400, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
declaimed the following:
>On 10/26/2014 1:08 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 18:48:59 -0400, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
>> declaimed the following:
>>
>>>> C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents>python3
>>>
>>> You must have done something extra to make this work on Windows.
>>
>> Possibly hand-edited my system PATH -- I've got a rather nasty one
>> (inserting line breaks)...
>
>I was referring to the existence of 'python3' (and 'python2'). I
>presume these are created by the ActiveState installer that you said you
>used. There are not created by the PSF Windows installer. It instead
>creates 'py' linked to the new launcher; 'py -2' and 'py -3' launch the
>latest available python 2 or python3.
Probably -- since the last time I installed a non-ActiveState build
probably goes back to Python 1.5 on an Amiga...
C:\Python_x64\Python27>dir
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is 2004-C3FA
Directory of C:\Python_x64\Python27
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> .
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> ..
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> DLLs
10/23/2014 09:12 AM <DIR> Doc
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> include
10/15/2014 09:57 PM <DIR> Lib
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> libs
06/01/2013 09:15 PM 4,612 MySQL-python-wininst.log
09/17/2013 12:31 AM 27,136 python.exe
09/17/2013 12:31 AM 27,136 python2.7.exe
09/17/2013 12:31 AM 27,136 python2.exe
09/17/2013 12:31 AM 27,648 pythonw.exe
09/17/2013 12:31 AM 27,648 pythonw2.7.exe
09/17/2013 12:31 AM 27,648 pythonw2.exe
06/01/2013 09:15 PM 223,744 RemoveMySQL-python.exe
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> Scripts
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> tcl
02/15/2014 01:27 PM <DIR> Tools
8 File(s) 392,708 bytes
10 Dir(s) 1,514,469,974,016 bytes free
C:\Python_x64\Python27>
C:\Python_x64\Python33>dir
Volume in drive C is OS
Volume Serial Number is 2004-C3FA
Directory of C:\Python_x64\Python33
02/15/2014 01:36 PM <DIR> .
02/15/2014 01:36 PM <DIR> ..
02/15/2014 01:35 PM <DIR> DLLs
10/15/2014 10:02 PM <DIR> Doc
02/15/2014 01:35 PM <DIR> include
02/15/2014 01:36 PM <DIR> Lib
02/15/2014 01:36 PM <DIR> libs
09/17/2013 12:37 AM 40,448 python.exe
09/17/2013 12:37 AM 40,448 python3.3.exe
09/17/2013 12:37 AM 40,448 python3.exe
09/17/2013 12:37 AM 40,960 pythonw.exe
09/17/2013 12:37 AM 40,960 pythonw3.3.exe
09/17/2013 12:37 AM 40,960 pythonw3.exe
02/15/2014 01:36 PM <DIR> Scripts
02/15/2014 01:36 PM <DIR> tcl
02/15/2014 01:36 PM <DIR> Tools
6 File(s) 244,224 bytes
10 Dir(s) 1,514,469,974,016 bytes free
C:\Python_x64\Python33>
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
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| From | Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-22 22:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m29bu2$8ou$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #79469 |
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:30:37 -0400, Seymore4Head wrote:
> def nametonumber(name):
> lst=[""]
> for x,y in enumerate (name):
> lst=lst.append(y)
> print (lst)
> return (lst)
> a=["1-800-getcharter"]
> print (nametonumber(a))#18004382427837
>
>
> The syntax for when to use a () and when to use [] still throws me a
> curve.
>
> For now, I am trying to end up with a list that has each character in
> "a" as a single item.
>
> I get:
> None None
First of all, an empty list is created with:
emptylist = []
whereas
x = [""]
creates a list containing one element, that element being an empty
string. Not the same thing!
Did you try stepping through your code line by line in the interpreter to
see what happened at each step?
note that append is a method of a list object, it has no return value,
the original list is modified in place.
>>> l = ["a","b","c"] # declare a list
>>> l.append( "d" ) # use the append method
>>> l # show the list
['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
So your line:
lst = lst.append(y)
should be:
lst.append(y)
Finally, did you really intend to pass a single element list into the
function, or did you intend to pass a string into the function?
There is a difference between:
a=["1-800-getcharter"]
which creates a single element list, the one element is the string "1-800-
getcharter", and:
a="1-800-getcharter"
which creates a string variable with the value "1-800-getcharter"
when you pass a list containing a string to your function, enumerate will
look at each list element, so if your list contains one string, enumerate
will return the pair 0, the_string, so the string gets appended to your
empty list as a single item.
The code I think you wanted to write is as follows:
def nametonumber(name):
lst=[]
for x,y in enumerate(name):
lst.append(y)
return lst
a="1-800-getcharter"
print ( nametonumber(a) )
I suggests that you study very carefully the differences between this and
your original code until you understand the reason and effect of every
difference, as only by doing so will you discover the misconceptions
which you seem to be operating under, and until you can get some of those
straightened out, you're not going to make a lot of progress.
Try running the original code and my suggested alternative line by line
in the interpreter, and examining the state of relevant variables after
each line of execution.
Here's a code file with both your original code and my modified code with
comprehensive print statements inserted for debugging. By referencing the
debugging statements back to the code, you should be able to determine
exactly where in your original code the value of "none" comes from.
### code starts
print ( "original code" )
def nametonumber(name):
print ("a) name =", name)
lst=[""]
print ( "b) lst = ", lst )
for x,y in enumerate (name):
print ( "c) x = ", x, "; y = ", y, "; lst = ", lst )
lst=lst.append(y)
print ( "d) lst = ", lst )
print (lst)
return (lst)
a=["1-800-getcharter"]
print ( "e) a = ", a )
print (nametonumber(a))
print ( "modified code" )
def nametonumber2(name):
print ("f) name =", name)
lst=[]
print ( "g) lst = ", lst )
for x,y in enumerate(name):
print ( "h) x = ", x, "; y = ", y, "; lst = ", lst )
lst.append(y)
print ( "i) lst = ", lst )
return lst
a="1-800-getcharter"
print ( "j) a = ", a )
print ( nametonumber2(a) )
### code ends
If you run the above code exactly as it is, you should see in the output
how the enumeration reacts according to the different data it is given to
enumerate, and also where lst is assigned the value none.
As I said above, getting your head round why this is happening is
essential, and I really do suggest that you slow down and try and
understand these basic concepts, because at the moment it seems you are
striving to attempt more and more complicated things without
understanding the basics upon which they are constructed, and like many
other similar newsgroups, it's been my experience in the past that there
is limited tolerance here for people who repeatedly make the same basic
errors without learning from them.
--
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com
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| From | Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-22 19:11 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <umdg4apqcmhrgi9preu57247opq5m966g0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #79477 |
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:43:14 +0000 (UTC), Denis McMahon
<denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:30:37 -0400, Seymore4Head wrote:
>
>> def nametonumber(name):
>> lst=[""]
>> for x,y in enumerate (name):
>> lst=lst.append(y)
>> print (lst)
>> return (lst)
>> a=["1-800-getcharter"]
>> print (nametonumber(a))#18004382427837
>>
>>
>> The syntax for when to use a () and when to use [] still throws me a
>> curve.
>>
>> For now, I am trying to end up with a list that has each character in
>> "a" as a single item.
>>
>> I get:
>> None None
>
>First of all, an empty list is created with:
>
>emptylist = []
>
>whereas
>
>x = [""]
>
>creates a list containing one element, that element being an empty
>string. Not the same thing!
>
>Did you try stepping through your code line by line in the interpreter to
>see what happened at each step?
>
>note that append is a method of a list object, it has no return value,
>the original list is modified in place.
>
>>>> l = ["a","b","c"] # declare a list
>>>> l.append( "d" ) # use the append method
>>>> l # show the list
>['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
>
>So your line:
>
>lst = lst.append(y)
>
>should be:
>
>lst.append(y)
>
>Finally, did you really intend to pass a single element list into the
>function, or did you intend to pass a string into the function?
>
Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error
I didn't understand.
>There is a difference between:
>
>a=["1-800-getcharter"]
>
>which creates a single element list, the one element is the string "1-800-
>getcharter", and:
>
>a="1-800-getcharter"
>
>which creates a string variable with the value "1-800-getcharter"
>
>when you pass a list containing a string to your function, enumerate will
>look at each list element, so if your list contains one string, enumerate
>will return the pair 0, the_string, so the string gets appended to your
>empty list as a single item.
>
>The code I think you wanted to write is as follows:
>
>def nametonumber(name):
> lst=[]
> for x,y in enumerate(name):
> lst.append(y)
> return lst
>
>a="1-800-getcharter"
>print ( nametonumber(a) )
>
>I suggests that you study very carefully the differences between this and
>your original code until you understand the reason and effect of every
>difference, as only by doing so will you discover the misconceptions
>which you seem to be operating under, and until you can get some of those
>straightened out, you're not going to make a lot of progress.
>
>Try running the original code and my suggested alternative line by line
>in the interpreter, and examining the state of relevant variables after
>each line of execution.
>
>Here's a code file with both your original code and my modified code with
>comprehensive print statements inserted for debugging. By referencing the
>debugging statements back to the code, you should be able to determine
>exactly where in your original code the value of "none" comes from.
>
>### code starts
>
>print ( "original code" )
>
>def nametonumber(name):
> print ("a) name =", name)
> lst=[""]
> print ( "b) lst = ", lst )
> for x,y in enumerate (name):
> print ( "c) x = ", x, "; y = ", y, "; lst = ", lst )
> lst=lst.append(y)
> print ( "d) lst = ", lst )
> print (lst)
> return (lst)
>
>a=["1-800-getcharter"]
>print ( "e) a = ", a )
>print (nametonumber(a))
>
>print ( "modified code" )
>
>def nametonumber2(name):
> print ("f) name =", name)
> lst=[]
> print ( "g) lst = ", lst )
> for x,y in enumerate(name):
> print ( "h) x = ", x, "; y = ", y, "; lst = ", lst )
> lst.append(y)
> print ( "i) lst = ", lst )
> return lst
>
>a="1-800-getcharter"
>print ( "j) a = ", a )
>print ( nametonumber2(a) )
>
>### code ends
>
>If you run the above code exactly as it is, you should see in the output
>how the enumeration reacts according to the different data it is given to
>enumerate, and also where lst is assigned the value none.
>
>As I said above, getting your head round why this is happening is
>essential, and I really do suggest that you slow down and try and
>understand these basic concepts, because at the moment it seems you are
>striving to attempt more and more complicated things without
>understanding the basics upon which they are constructed, and like many
>other similar newsgroups, it's been my experience in the past that there
>is limited tolerance here for people who repeatedly make the same basic
>errors without learning from them.
Thanks a lot for all your suggestions. I haven't learned to use the
interpreter yet. I do plan on learning to use it.
The problem with that at the moment is that I have enrolled in an
online computer class. They use Codeskulptor.
Codeskulptor code is not compatible to standard Python. When I finish
the class I do plan on using Python 3 and will learn the Python 3
stuff.
Codeskulptor has a Viz mode. I have tried using it, but so far it is
still pretty confusing. I will try to use it more.
I have saved your message and will crack the interpreter on it soon.
My trouble is trying to search for practice problems that are not too
hard yet.
Thanks again
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| From | Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 10:59 +1100 |
| Subject | The “trials” in “trial and error” should be as simple as possible (was: I am out of trial and error again Lists) |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15098.1414022393.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79481 |
Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> writes: > Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error > I didn't understand. It's normal when learning to get one's code into a mess. But, when trying to trouble-shoot, please adopt the habit of *simplifying* the examples, to better understand them. At the least, when presenting code here for asking questions, ensure you've make a simple-as-possible example showing the problem. In other words: rip out any complicated parts to see if they're relevant; if the same problem happens, that part wasn't relevant to the example, and you should omit it when presenting it here. You'll find that this will get you more sensible answers, As a bonus, it will often lead to you understanding the problem enough to solve it! -- \ “At my lemonade stand I used to give the first glass away free | `\ and charge five dollars for the second glass. The refill | _o__) contained the antidote.” —Emo Philips | Ben Finney
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 11:05 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <54484635$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #79481 |
Seymore4Head wrote: > Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error > I didn't understand. Ah, the good ol' "make random changes to the code until the error goes away" technique. You know that it never works, right? Start by *reading the error message*, assuming you're getting an error message. I'm the first person to admit that Python's error messages are not always as clear as they should be, especially syntax errors, but still there is a lot of information that can be gleamed from most error messages. Take this attempt to use append: py> mylist.append(23) Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> NameError: name 'mylist' is not defined That tells me that I have forgotten to define a variable mylist. So I fix that: py> mylist = 23 py> mylist.append(23) Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'append' That tells me that I can't append to a int. After googling for "Python append" I learn that I can append to a list, so I try again: py> mylist = [] py> mylist.append(23) py> print(mylist) [23] Success! If you are familiar with other programming languages, it might help to think of append() as being like a procedure in Pascal, for example. You call append() with an argument, but don't expect a return result. Technically, *all* functions and methods in Python return something, even if just the special value None, which can lead to "Gotchas!" like this one: py> mylist = mylist.append(42) # Don't do this! py> print(mylist) # I expect [23, 42] but get None instead. None Oops. One of the small annoyances of Python is that there is no way to tell ahead of time, except by reading the documentation, whether something is a proper function that returns a useful value, or a procedure-like function that returns None. That's just something you have to learn. The interactive interpreter is your friend. Learn to experiment at the interactive interpreter -- you do know how to do that, don't you? If not, ask. At the interactive interpreter, if a function or method returns a value, it will be printed, *except for None*. So a function that doesn't print anything might be procedure-like, and one which does print something might not be: py> mylist = [1, 5, 2, 6, 4, 3] py> sorted(mylist) # proper function returns a value [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] py> mylist.sort() # procedure-like function returns None py> print(mylist) # and modifies the list in place [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] -- Steven
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| From | Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-22 20:10 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ophg4adv431bosmq1195tvg55rsn141e73@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #79487 |
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:05:08 +1100, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >Seymore4Head wrote: > >> Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error >> I didn't understand. > >Ah, the good ol' "make random changes to the code until the error goes away" >technique. You know that it never works, right? > >Start by *reading the error message*, assuming you're getting an error >message. I'm the first person to admit that Python's error messages are not >always as clear as they should be, especially syntax errors, but still >there is a lot of information that can be gleamed from most error messages. >Take this attempt to use append: > >py> mylist.append(23) >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >NameError: name 'mylist' is not defined > >That tells me that I have forgotten to define a variable mylist. So I fix >that: > >py> mylist = 23 >py> mylist.append(23) >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'append' > > >That tells me that I can't append to a int. After googling for "Python >append" I learn that I can append to a list, so I try again: > >py> mylist = [] >py> mylist.append(23) >py> print(mylist) >[23] > > >Success! > >If you are familiar with other programming languages, it might help to think >of append() as being like a procedure in Pascal, for example. You call >append() with an argument, but don't expect a return result. > >Technically, *all* functions and methods in Python return something, even if >just the special value None, which can lead to "Gotchas!" like this one: > >py> mylist = mylist.append(42) # Don't do this! >py> print(mylist) # I expect [23, 42] but get None instead. >None > >Oops. One of the small annoyances of Python is that there is no way to tell >ahead of time, except by reading the documentation, whether something is a >proper function that returns a useful value, or a procedure-like function >that returns None. That's just something you have to learn. > >The interactive interpreter is your friend. Learn to experiment at the >interactive interpreter -- you do know how to do that, don't you? If not, >ask. At the interactive interpreter, if a function or method returns a >value, it will be printed, *except for None*. So a function that doesn't >print anything might be procedure-like, and one which does print something >might not be: > >py> mylist = [1, 5, 2, 6, 4, 3] >py> sorted(mylist) # proper function returns a value >[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >py> mylist.sort() # procedure-like function returns None >py> print(mylist) # and modifies the list in place >[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] I am going to get around to learning the interpreter soon. Thanks
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 02:31 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15100.1414027919.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79488 |
On 2014-10-23 01:10, Seymore4Head wrote: > On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:05:08 +1100, Steven D'Aprano > <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > >>Seymore4Head wrote: >> >>> Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error >>> I didn't understand. >> >>Ah, the good ol' "make random changes to the code until the error goes away" >>technique. You know that it never works, right? >> >>Start by *reading the error message*, assuming you're getting an error >>message. I'm the first person to admit that Python's error messages are not >>always as clear as they should be, especially syntax errors, but still >>there is a lot of information that can be gleamed from most error messages. >>Take this attempt to use append: >> >>py> mylist.append(23) >>Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>NameError: name 'mylist' is not defined >> >>That tells me that I have forgotten to define a variable mylist. So I fix >>that: >> >>py> mylist = 23 >>py> mylist.append(23) >>Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'append' >> >> >>That tells me that I can't append to a int. After googling for "Python >>append" I learn that I can append to a list, so I try again: >> >>py> mylist = [] >>py> mylist.append(23) >>py> print(mylist) >>[23] >> >> >>Success! >> >>If you are familiar with other programming languages, it might help to think >>of append() as being like a procedure in Pascal, for example. You call >>append() with an argument, but don't expect a return result. >> >>Technically, *all* functions and methods in Python return something, even if >>just the special value None, which can lead to "Gotchas!" like this one: >> >>py> mylist = mylist.append(42) # Don't do this! >>py> print(mylist) # I expect [23, 42] but get None instead. >>None >> >>Oops. One of the small annoyances of Python is that there is no way to tell >>ahead of time, except by reading the documentation, whether something is a >>proper function that returns a useful value, or a procedure-like function >>that returns None. That's just something you have to learn. >> >>The interactive interpreter is your friend. Learn to experiment at the >>interactive interpreter -- you do know how to do that, don't you? If not, >>ask. At the interactive interpreter, if a function or method returns a >>value, it will be printed, *except for None*. So a function that doesn't >>print anything might be procedure-like, and one which does print something >>might not be: >> >>py> mylist = [1, 5, 2, 6, 4, 3] >>py> sorted(mylist) # proper function returns a value >>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>py> mylist.sort() # procedure-like function returns None >>py> print(mylist) # and modifies the list in place >>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] > > I am going to get around to learning the interpreter soon. > Why wait? You're trying to learn the language _now_, and checking things interactively will help you.
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| From | Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-22 21:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <8nmg4aljnmigjtjk70cc4g6dmacca6negc@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #79492 |
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 02:31:57 +0100, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: >On 2014-10-23 01:10, Seymore4Head wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:05:08 +1100, Steven D'Aprano >> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >> >>>Seymore4Head wrote: >>> >>>> Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error >>>> I didn't understand. >>> >>>Ah, the good ol' "make random changes to the code until the error goes away" >>>technique. You know that it never works, right? >>> >>>Start by *reading the error message*, assuming you're getting an error >>>message. I'm the first person to admit that Python's error messages are not >>>always as clear as they should be, especially syntax errors, but still >>>there is a lot of information that can be gleamed from most error messages. >>>Take this attempt to use append: >>> >>>py> mylist.append(23) >>>Traceback (most recent call last): >>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>NameError: name 'mylist' is not defined >>> >>>That tells me that I have forgotten to define a variable mylist. So I fix >>>that: >>> >>>py> mylist = 23 >>>py> mylist.append(23) >>>Traceback (most recent call last): >>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'append' >>> >>> >>>That tells me that I can't append to a int. After googling for "Python >>>append" I learn that I can append to a list, so I try again: >>> >>>py> mylist = [] >>>py> mylist.append(23) >>>py> print(mylist) >>>[23] >>> >>> >>>Success! >>> >>>If you are familiar with other programming languages, it might help to think >>>of append() as being like a procedure in Pascal, for example. You call >>>append() with an argument, but don't expect a return result. >>> >>>Technically, *all* functions and methods in Python return something, even if >>>just the special value None, which can lead to "Gotchas!" like this one: >>> >>>py> mylist = mylist.append(42) # Don't do this! >>>py> print(mylist) # I expect [23, 42] but get None instead. >>>None >>> >>>Oops. One of the small annoyances of Python is that there is no way to tell >>>ahead of time, except by reading the documentation, whether something is a >>>proper function that returns a useful value, or a procedure-like function >>>that returns None. That's just something you have to learn. >>> >>>The interactive interpreter is your friend. Learn to experiment at the >>>interactive interpreter -- you do know how to do that, don't you? If not, >>>ask. At the interactive interpreter, if a function or method returns a >>>value, it will be printed, *except for None*. So a function that doesn't >>>print anything might be procedure-like, and one which does print something >>>might not be: >>> >>>py> mylist = [1, 5, 2, 6, 4, 3] >>>py> sorted(mylist) # proper function returns a value >>>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>>py> mylist.sort() # procedure-like function returns None >>>py> print(mylist) # and modifies the list in place >>>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >> >> I am going to get around to learning the interpreter soon. >> >Why wait? > >You're trying to learn the language _now_, and checking things >interactively will help you. Because most of the practice I am getting is not using Python. I use Codeskulptor. OK.........Now is as good a time as ever. Thanks
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| From | Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-22 21:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mrng4aheh7mq95qn8054l8a6eauj19av86@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #79494 |
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 21:35:19 -0400, Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> wrote: >On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 02:31:57 +0100, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> >wrote: > >>On 2014-10-23 01:10, Seymore4Head wrote: >>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:05:08 +1100, Steven D'Aprano >>> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >>> >>>>Seymore4Head wrote: >>>> >>>>> Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error >>>>> I didn't understand. >>>> >>>>Ah, the good ol' "make random changes to the code until the error goes away" >>>>technique. You know that it never works, right? >>>> >>>>Start by *reading the error message*, assuming you're getting an error >>>>message. I'm the first person to admit that Python's error messages are not >>>>always as clear as they should be, especially syntax errors, but still >>>>there is a lot of information that can be gleamed from most error messages. >>>>Take this attempt to use append: >>>> >>>>py> mylist.append(23) >>>>Traceback (most recent call last): >>>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>>NameError: name 'mylist' is not defined >>>> >>>>That tells me that I have forgotten to define a variable mylist. So I fix >>>>that: >>>> >>>>py> mylist = 23 >>>>py> mylist.append(23) >>>>Traceback (most recent call last): >>>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>>AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'append' >>>> >>>> >>>>That tells me that I can't append to a int. After googling for "Python >>>>append" I learn that I can append to a list, so I try again: >>>> >>>>py> mylist = [] >>>>py> mylist.append(23) >>>>py> print(mylist) >>>>[23] >>>> >>>> >>>>Success! >>>> >>>>If you are familiar with other programming languages, it might help to think >>>>of append() as being like a procedure in Pascal, for example. You call >>>>append() with an argument, but don't expect a return result. >>>> >>>>Technically, *all* functions and methods in Python return something, even if >>>>just the special value None, which can lead to "Gotchas!" like this one: >>>> >>>>py> mylist = mylist.append(42) # Don't do this! >>>>py> print(mylist) # I expect [23, 42] but get None instead. >>>>None >>>> >>>>Oops. One of the small annoyances of Python is that there is no way to tell >>>>ahead of time, except by reading the documentation, whether something is a >>>>proper function that returns a useful value, or a procedure-like function >>>>that returns None. That's just something you have to learn. >>>> >>>>The interactive interpreter is your friend. Learn to experiment at the >>>>interactive interpreter -- you do know how to do that, don't you? If not, >>>>ask. At the interactive interpreter, if a function or method returns a >>>>value, it will be printed, *except for None*. So a function that doesn't >>>>print anything might be procedure-like, and one which does print something >>>>might not be: >>>> >>>>py> mylist = [1, 5, 2, 6, 4, 3] >>>>py> sorted(mylist) # proper function returns a value >>>>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>>>py> mylist.sort() # procedure-like function returns None >>>>py> print(mylist) # and modifies the list in place >>>>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>> >>> I am going to get around to learning the interpreter soon. >>> >>Why wait? >> >>You're trying to learn the language _now_, and checking things >>interactively will help you. > >Because most of the practice I am getting is not using Python. I use >Codeskulptor. > >OK.........Now is as good a time as ever. > >Thanks Now I remember why...........nothing happens http://i.imgur.com/MIRpqzY.jpg If I click on the shell window, I can get the grayed options to show up for one turn. I hit step and everything goes gray again. http://i.imgur.com/NtMdmU1.jpg Not a very fruitful exercise. :(
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 08:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15103.1414048846.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79496 |
On 23/10/2014 02:57, Seymore4Head wrote: > On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 21:35:19 -0400, Seymore4Head > <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> wrote: > >> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 02:31:57 +0100, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2014-10-23 01:10, Seymore4Head wrote: >>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:05:08 +1100, Steven D'Aprano >>>> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Seymore4Head wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error >>>>>> I didn't understand. >>>>> >>>>> Ah, the good ol' "make random changes to the code until the error goes away" >>>>> technique. You know that it never works, right? >>>>> >>>>> Start by *reading the error message*, assuming you're getting an error >>>>> message. I'm the first person to admit that Python's error messages are not >>>>> always as clear as they should be, especially syntax errors, but still >>>>> there is a lot of information that can be gleamed from most error messages. >>>>> Take this attempt to use append: >>>>> >>>>> py> mylist.append(23) >>>>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>>>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>>> NameError: name 'mylist' is not defined >>>>> >>>>> That tells me that I have forgotten to define a variable mylist. So I fix >>>>> that: >>>>> >>>>> py> mylist = 23 >>>>> py> mylist.append(23) >>>>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>>>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>>> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'append' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That tells me that I can't append to a int. After googling for "Python >>>>> append" I learn that I can append to a list, so I try again: >>>>> >>>>> py> mylist = [] >>>>> py> mylist.append(23) >>>>> py> print(mylist) >>>>> [23] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Success! >>>>> >>>>> If you are familiar with other programming languages, it might help to think >>>>> of append() as being like a procedure in Pascal, for example. You call >>>>> append() with an argument, but don't expect a return result. >>>>> >>>>> Technically, *all* functions and methods in Python return something, even if >>>>> just the special value None, which can lead to "Gotchas!" like this one: >>>>> >>>>> py> mylist = mylist.append(42) # Don't do this! >>>>> py> print(mylist) # I expect [23, 42] but get None instead. >>>>> None >>>>> >>>>> Oops. One of the small annoyances of Python is that there is no way to tell >>>>> ahead of time, except by reading the documentation, whether something is a >>>>> proper function that returns a useful value, or a procedure-like function >>>>> that returns None. That's just something you have to learn. >>>>> >>>>> The interactive interpreter is your friend. Learn to experiment at the >>>>> interactive interpreter -- you do know how to do that, don't you? If not, >>>>> ask. At the interactive interpreter, if a function or method returns a >>>>> value, it will be printed, *except for None*. So a function that doesn't >>>>> print anything might be procedure-like, and one which does print something >>>>> might not be: >>>>> >>>>> py> mylist = [1, 5, 2, 6, 4, 3] >>>>> py> sorted(mylist) # proper function returns a value >>>>> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>>>> py> mylist.sort() # procedure-like function returns None >>>>> py> print(mylist) # and modifies the list in place >>>>> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>>> >>>> I am going to get around to learning the interpreter soon. >>>> >>> Why wait? >>> >>> You're trying to learn the language _now_, and checking things >>> interactively will help you. >> >> Because most of the practice I am getting is not using Python. I use >> Codeskulptor. >> >> OK.........Now is as good a time as ever. >> >> Thanks > > Now I remember why...........nothing happens > http://i.imgur.com/MIRpqzY.jpg > > If I click on the shell window, I can get the grayed options to show > up for one turn. > I hit step and everything goes gray again. > > http://i.imgur.com/NtMdmU1.jpg > > Not a very fruitful exercise. :( > If you were to read and digest what is written it would help. You're trying to run IDLE. We're talking the interactive interpreter. If (at least on Windows) you run a command prompt and then type python<cr> you should see something like this. Python 3.4.2 (v3.4.2:ab2c023a9432, Oct 6 2014, 22:16:31) [MSC v.1600 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence
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| From | Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 10:01 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jh2i4a58vbfrlt42h6tr9tfllcjau680dn@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #79504 |
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 08:20:32 +0100, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >On 23/10/2014 02:57, Seymore4Head wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 21:35:19 -0400, Seymore4Head >> <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 02:31:57 +0100, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2014-10-23 01:10, Seymore4Head wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:05:08 +1100, Steven D'Aprano >>>>> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Seymore4Head wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Those string errors were desperate attempts to fix the "append" error >>>>>>> I didn't understand. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ah, the good ol' "make random changes to the code until the error goes away" >>>>>> technique. You know that it never works, right? >>>>>> >>>>>> Start by *reading the error message*, assuming you're getting an error >>>>>> message. I'm the first person to admit that Python's error messages are not >>>>>> always as clear as they should be, especially syntax errors, but still >>>>>> there is a lot of information that can be gleamed from most error messages. >>>>>> Take this attempt to use append: >>>>>> >>>>>> py> mylist.append(23) >>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>>>>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>>>> NameError: name 'mylist' is not defined >>>>>> >>>>>> That tells me that I have forgotten to define a variable mylist. So I fix >>>>>> that: >>>>>> >>>>>> py> mylist = 23 >>>>>> py> mylist.append(23) >>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>>>>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> >>>>>> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'append' >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That tells me that I can't append to a int. After googling for "Python >>>>>> append" I learn that I can append to a list, so I try again: >>>>>> >>>>>> py> mylist = [] >>>>>> py> mylist.append(23) >>>>>> py> print(mylist) >>>>>> [23] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Success! >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are familiar with other programming languages, it might help to think >>>>>> of append() as being like a procedure in Pascal, for example. You call >>>>>> append() with an argument, but don't expect a return result. >>>>>> >>>>>> Technically, *all* functions and methods in Python return something, even if >>>>>> just the special value None, which can lead to "Gotchas!" like this one: >>>>>> >>>>>> py> mylist = mylist.append(42) # Don't do this! >>>>>> py> print(mylist) # I expect [23, 42] but get None instead. >>>>>> None >>>>>> >>>>>> Oops. One of the small annoyances of Python is that there is no way to tell >>>>>> ahead of time, except by reading the documentation, whether something is a >>>>>> proper function that returns a useful value, or a procedure-like function >>>>>> that returns None. That's just something you have to learn. >>>>>> >>>>>> The interactive interpreter is your friend. Learn to experiment at the >>>>>> interactive interpreter -- you do know how to do that, don't you? If not, >>>>>> ask. At the interactive interpreter, if a function or method returns a >>>>>> value, it will be printed, *except for None*. So a function that doesn't >>>>>> print anything might be procedure-like, and one which does print something >>>>>> might not be: >>>>>> >>>>>> py> mylist = [1, 5, 2, 6, 4, 3] >>>>>> py> sorted(mylist) # proper function returns a value >>>>>> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>>>>> py> mylist.sort() # procedure-like function returns None >>>>>> py> print(mylist) # and modifies the list in place >>>>>> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] >>>>> >>>>> I am going to get around to learning the interpreter soon. >>>>> >>>> Why wait? >>>> >>>> You're trying to learn the language _now_, and checking things >>>> interactively will help you. >>> >>> Because most of the practice I am getting is not using Python. I use >>> Codeskulptor. >>> >>> OK.........Now is as good a time as ever. >>> >>> Thanks >> >> Now I remember why...........nothing happens >> http://i.imgur.com/MIRpqzY.jpg >> >> If I click on the shell window, I can get the grayed options to show >> up for one turn. >> I hit step and everything goes gray again. >> >> http://i.imgur.com/NtMdmU1.jpg >> >> Not a very fruitful exercise. :( >> > >If you were to read and digest what is written it would help. You're >trying to run IDLE. We're talking the interactive interpreter. If (at >least on Windows) you run a command prompt and then type python<cr> you >should see something like this. > >Python 3.4.2 (v3.4.2:ab2c023a9432, Oct 6 2014, 22:16:31) [MSC v.1600 64 >bit (AMD64)] on win32 >Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. OK Thanks
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 01:56 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15105.1414051055.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79496 |
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > If you were to read and digest what is written it would help. You're trying > to run IDLE. We're talking the interactive interpreter. IDLE includes the interactive interpreter. > If (at least on > Windows) you run a command prompt and then type python<cr> you should see > something like this. > > Python 3.4.2 (v3.4.2:ab2c023a9432, Oct 6 2014, 22:16:31) [MSC v.1600 64 bit > (AMD64)] on win32 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. Same thing comes up when I start IDLE, so what's your point?
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 09:09 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15106.1414051759.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #79496 |
On 23/10/2014 08:56, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> If you were to read and digest what is written it would help. You're trying >> to run IDLE. We're talking the interactive interpreter. > > IDLE includes the interactive interpreter. > >> If (at least on >> Windows) you run a command prompt and then type python<cr> you should see >> something like this. >> >> Python 3.4.2 (v3.4.2:ab2c023a9432, Oct 6 2014, 22:16:31) [MSC v.1600 64 bit >> (AMD64)] on win32 >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > > Same thing comes up when I start IDLE, so what's your point? > When you run the interactive interpreter thats all you get. The OP isn't the first person to try things with IDLE not realising you need to have a script loaded to do something. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence
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| From | Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 06:42 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists |
| Message-ID | <ae770df0-6d66-422c-8455-6badfe88e80a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #79506 |
On Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:39:32 PM UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 23/10/2014 08:56, Ian Kelly wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > >> If you were to read and digest what is written it would help. You're trying > >> to run IDLE. We're talking the interactive interpreter. > > > > IDLE includes the interactive interpreter. > > > >> If (at least on > >> Windows) you run a command prompt and then type python<cr> you should see > >> something like this. > >> > >> Python 3.4.2 (v3.4.2:ab2c023a9432, Oct 6 2014, 22:16:31) [MSC v.1600 64 bit > >> (AMD64)] on win32 > >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > > > > Same thing comes up when I start IDLE, so what's your point? > > > > When you run the interactive interpreter thats all you get. The OP > isn't the first person to try things with IDLE not realising you need to > have a script loaded to do something. If I do (at the shell prompt with an example) $ python3 Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct 8 2014, 10:45:20) [GCC 4.9.1] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> 2+3 5 And if I do $ idle3 I get a new window containing Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct 8 2014, 10:45:20) [GCC 4.9.1] on linux Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information. >>> 2+3 5 so... Still not clear whats your point. idle and python interpreter seem to be mostly the same [As best as I can make out the OP is not using the standalone interpreter nor idle nor (the many options like) python-interpreter-inside-emacs nor ipython nor ... ]
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| From | Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 10:03 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists |
| Message-ID | <gk2i4apgh335tstqlia9tdomms61upgvfg@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #79514 |
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 06:42:43 -0700 (PDT), Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote: >On Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:39:32 PM UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> On 23/10/2014 08:56, Ian Kelly wrote: >> > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> >> If you were to read and digest what is written it would help. You're trying >> >> to run IDLE. We're talking the interactive interpreter. >> > >> > IDLE includes the interactive interpreter. >> > >> >> If (at least on >> >> Windows) you run a command prompt and then type python<cr> you should see >> >> something like this. >> >> >> >> Python 3.4.2 (v3.4.2:ab2c023a9432, Oct 6 2014, 22:16:31) [MSC v.1600 64 bit >> >> (AMD64)] on win32 >> >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >> > >> > Same thing comes up when I start IDLE, so what's your point? >> > >> >> When you run the interactive interpreter thats all you get. The OP >> isn't the first person to try things with IDLE not realising you need to >> have a script loaded to do something. > >If I do (at the shell prompt with an example) >$ python3 >Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct 8 2014, 10:45:20) >[GCC 4.9.1] on linux >Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>>> 2+3 >5 > >And if I do >$ idle3 >I get a new window containing > >Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct 8 2014, 10:45:20) >[GCC 4.9.1] on linux >Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information. >>>> 2+3 >5 > >so... >Still not clear whats your point. >idle and python interpreter seem to be mostly the same > >[As best as I can make out the OP is not using the standalone >interpreter >nor idle >nor (the many options like) python-interpreter-inside-emacs >nor ipython >nor ... >] I don't know the difference, yet. I am gonna get around to reading the Internet one of these days. :)
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| From | Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-23 08:35 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: I am out of trial and error again Lists |
| Message-ID | <55a283b9-adfb-44b9-b35e-cf18aeb5f87e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #79519 |
On Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:36:28 PM UTC+5:30, Seymore4Head wrote: > On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 06:42:43 -0700 (PDT), Rustom Mody wrote: > >[As best as I can make out the OP is not using the standalone > >interpreter > >nor idle > >nor (the many options like) python-interpreter-inside-emacs > >nor ipython > >nor ... > >] > I don't know the difference, yet. I am gonna get around to reading > the Internet one of these days. > :) Hoo Boy! You may like to start here http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Python_Programming/Interactive_mode Then stop and try what is suggested Then come back here and ask what (if any) goes wrong
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