Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #82479 > unrolled thread

Re: Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.

Contents

  Re: Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition "Giampaolo Rodola'" <g.rodola@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 15:07 +0100
    Re: Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-12-13 17:07 +0200
      Re: Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-12-14 02:40 +1100
        Re: Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-12-13 17:46 +0200

#82479 — Re: Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
wrote:
>
> "Giampaolo Rodola'" <g.rodola@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I still think the only *real* obstacle remains the lack of important
> > packages such as twisted, gevent and pika which haven't been ported
> > yet.
>
> What disqualifies other obstacles from being “*real* obstacles”? How do
> you determine that?
>
> > With those ones ported switching to Python 3 *right now* is not only
> > possible and relatively easy, but also convenient.
>
> If my program relies on an obscure library ‘foo’, and that library is
> not ported to Python 3, switching to Python 3 is not feasible, and
> certainly not convenient — regardless of the status of “important
> packages such as twisted, gevent, and pika”.
>
> So your assertion here is plainly false.
>
> What is it you're actually wanting to say?


What I'm saying is that for a very long time a considerable number of
libraries haven't been ported to python 3 and that lasted for years, say
until Python 3.3, or until Django started supporting Python 3, which
happened less than a year ago. Names such as Twisted, gevent, eventlet,
python-daemon and paramiko means that literally hundreds of thousands of
users cannot even think about migrating *right now*: they're just stuck. My
perception is that for way too long Python 3 was kind of ignored by some of
the most important library vendors and it (partially) still is, and that's
what is affecting Python 3 adoption the most. Try to take a look at how
many missing dependencies a project such as OpenStack still has:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20075574/finding-which-packages-support-python-3-x-vs-2-7-x/22113627#22113627.
OpenStack is probably a bad example 'cause it's *huge*, but when the
missing deps have hundreds of thousands of user (see
https://python3wos.appspot.com/) it is very easy to hit one of those and
remain stuck even if your project is a lot smaller. I personally tried to
migrate 2 medium-sized (> 10.000 LOC) projects at work for 2 different
companies and what I ended up doing was modernizing the code so that both
2.7 and 3.3+ interpreters could execute it and tests didn't raise any
"python-related error" (SyntaxError, TypeError, UnicodeError or whatever),
but I punctually hit the wall of 1, 2 or 3 missing dependencies. So
basically both of these 2 projects are "python 3 ready" but since the
library ecosystem is not I just "wait" (it's been a year now).

-- 
Giampaolo - http://grodola.blogspot.com

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#82481

"Giampaolo Rodola'" <g.rodola@gmail.com>:

> What I'm saying is that for a very long time a considerable number of
> libraries haven't been ported to python 3

Ok, that's at least half the fault of the library developers.

> Names such as Twisted, gevent, eventlet, python-daemon and paramiko
> means that literally hundreds of thousands of users cannot even think
> about migrating *right now*: they're just stuck.

I *have* always been very suspicious of third-party libraries and
platforms. The comes-with-batteries approach has been enough for my
needs.

> My perception is that for way too long Python 3 was kind of ignored by
> some of the most important library vendors and it (partially) still
> is, and that's what is affecting Python 3 adoption the most.

Maybe. I'm not afraid of the Python 3 transition, but it's not current
yet. I'm running a Python 3 application at home. At work, Python 2.3 is
the version in one environment, Python 2.6 in another. When Python 3.x
becomes the least common denominator, we'll build on that. Some other
teams have already made the jump.


Marko

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82482

Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> At work, Python 2.3 is the version in one environment


Good grief! What's the OS you are using for that?




-- 
Steven

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82483

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>:

> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> At work, Python 2.3 is the version in one environment
>
> Good grief! What's the OS you are using for that?

RHEL 4.


Marko

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python

csiph-web