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Groups > comp.lang.python > #197902 > unrolled thread

Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy

Started byMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
First post2026-09-03 16:30 +0930
Last post2026-09-08 08:07 +0300
Articles 20 on this page of 95 — 18 participants

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  Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-03 16:30 +0930
    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-03 08:09 +0000
      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-04 02:27 +0930
        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-03 20:46 +0000
          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 06:15 +0600
            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-05 00:34 +0000
              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:05 +0600
                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-05 01:47 +0000
                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:00 -0300
                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-05 17:49 +0000
                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 16:14 -0300
                        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-06 00:06 +0000
                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-06 13:39 +0200
                            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-06 15:37 +0000
                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-06 20:23 +0200
                                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 02:16 +0300
                                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 13:42 +0200
                                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 21:06 +0300
                                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 21:28 +0200
                                        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 06:38 +0300
                                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 15:28 -0700
                                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 02:01 -0400
                                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-07 01:47 -0500
                                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-07 10:18 +0000
                                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 13:30 +0200
                                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 21:22 +0300
                                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 22:28 +0000
                                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 07:22 +0300
                                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-08 10:44 +0000
                                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 13:27 +0000
                                        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 09:47 -0600
                                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 19:51 +0300
                                            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-09-08 10:23 -0700
                                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-08 18:12 +0000
                                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 22:18 +0400
                                                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-09-09 19:46 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-25 23:43 +0800
                                                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-09-25 13:14 -0700
                                                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-26 04:41 +0800
                                                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-25 22:17 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-26 07:26 +0800
                                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 18:59 +0200
                                            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 21:20 +0400
                                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 19:37 +0200
                                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-08 19:26 +0200
                                            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 11:36 -0600
                                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-08 20:05 +0200
                                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-08 20:35 +0200
                                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 19:06 +0000
                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 10:47 +0100
                                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 13:34 +0200
                                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 18:48 +0200
                                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 18:46 +0100
                                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-07 14:04 +0000
                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:47 +0300
              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-09-05 01:11 +0000
                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:24 +0600
                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-04 23:15 -0700
                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:18 -0300
                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 16:40 -0700
                        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 02:40 +0300
                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:09 +0300
                            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:12 +0300
                              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:13 +0300
                                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:14 +0300
                                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:16 +0300
                                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 03:18 +0300
                                      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 04:23 +0300
                          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 19:03 -0700
                    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-06 11:57 +0000
            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-05 06:44 +0000
              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:35 -0300
      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-03 15:48 -0700
        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2026-09-04 02:02 +0300
          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:46 +0600
      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-04 10:28 +0200
        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2026-09-04 11:44 +0000
          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 20:28 +0300
        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-07 21:45 +0300
          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-07 21:28 +0200
            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 07:38 +0300
    Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-04 22:58 +0000
      Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 07:13 +0600
        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 07:57 +0000
          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 14:48 -0300
            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-05 12:13 -0600
              Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 15:18 -0300
                Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-05 12:25 -0600
                  Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 16:22 -0300
            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 00:11 +0000
        Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-05 09:17 +0100
          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 11:22 +0000
            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-05 15:13 -0300
          Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-06 20:39 +0200
            Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-09-08 08:07 +0300

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#197952

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 02:40 +0300
Message-ID<117ktks$1rci$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197935
Keith Thompson wrote:
>> So, together, the Windows & Python newsgroup honed the working code.
>> Do you need me to supply the code for you again so you can run it?
> 
> You haven't supplied it once.  If you did, I personally would not be
> interested in running it, but it might at least be topical in
> comp.lang.python *if* anyone actually discusses the code.

Hi Keith Thompson,

Thank you for bringing up your point of view, as all points are valid here.
This is Usenet where we welcome deep detailed discussion of tech topics.

Jon Ribbens clearly ran the code so we have proof that it was referenced
properly enough for him to have run it on his machine to prove the point.

Nonetheless, it's good you're *asking* for the Python code, which I only
ran on Windows 10, and which I'm happy to supply to you for all to review.

Please keep in mind the progression of this topic started with this paper:
 *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
 <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>

As Jon Ribbens did, I simply ran the Python code in that article on my PC.

Since all the dozens of access points on my property have always had both a
hidden broadcast & a _nomap prefix, I was horrified to see them on the map!

At that time, we discussed this issue at length, where the following code
resulted which I will provide to the team to try themselves on their PC.

     12/17/2025  02:28 PM             2,934 bssid.bat.txt
     12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,309 bssidcheck.bat.txt
     12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,979 bssidcompare.bat.txt
     12/17/2025  02:28 PM               316 bssidgenerate.bat.txt
     12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,312 bssidgenerate.ps1.txt
     12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,348 bssidplot.py.txt
     12/17/2025  02:28 PM            27,527 bssid_results.txt

Let's start with the first on that list, and proceed from there, so that
anyone with this code can track every single router location in the world.

Here is bssid.bat

  @echo off
  setlocal EnableDelayedExpansion
  :: C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssid.bat
  :: Use: bssid.bat <Enter> (then enter desired BSSID to look up)
  :: Sample values:
  ::  00:18:f8:c1:4a:65 
  ::  00:07:89:d7:82:e8
  ::  04:09:A5:3B:34:67
  ::
  :: Logs up to 400 BSSID:GPS pairs from Apple's WPS public database
  :: Loop until user types q
  ::
  :: Changelog:
  :: v1p0 20251205 - Query Apple's highly insecure WPS database 
  :: v1p1 20251214 - Saves to time-date stamped results.txt log file
  :: v1p2 20251215 - Timestamp results.txt so it's not overwritten
  :: v1p3 20251219 - Limit the human-readable GPS to 6 decimal places
  :: v1p4 20251219 - Show original raw integers + converted decimals
  :: v1p5 20251219 - Tried to accomodate Google Maps query to new format
  :: v1p6 20251219 - Changed to block-aware parsing with debug output
  :: v1p7 20251219 - Enable delayed expansion to fix parsing inside loops
  
  set LOGDIR=%~dp0log
  if not exist "%LOGDIR%" mkdir "%LOGDIR%"
  
  :: Create a unique session log (YYYYMMDD_HHMMSS)
  for /f %%A in ('wmic os get localdatetime ^| find "."') do set dt0=%%A
  set "session_ts=%dt0:~0,8%_%dt0:~8,6%"
  set "session_log=%LOGDIR%\session_%session_ts%.log"
  
  echo === New BSSID lookup session started at %date% %time% === >>
"%session_log%"
  
  echo.
  echo === Nearby Wi-Fi Networks ===
  netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid
  echo =============================
  
  :loop
  echo.
  set /p BSSID=Enter the BSSID (or q to quit): 
  
  if /I "%BSSID%"=="q" goto end
  
  :: --- Clean up input ---
  set "BSSID=%BSSID:"=%"
  set "BSSID=%BSSID: =%"
  
  :: --- Make filename-safe version ---
  set "safeBSSID=%BSSID::=-%"
  
  :: --- Generate timestamp for THIS lookup ---
  for /f %%A in ('wmic os get localdatetime ^| find "."') do set dt=%%A
  set "ts=%dt:~0,8%_%dt:~8,6%"
  
  :: --- Timestamped output file ---
  set "outfile=%LOGDIR%\bssid_%safeBSSID%_%ts%.txt"
  
  :: --- Clear previous coordinates ---
  set "LAT="
  set "LON="
  
  echo === Lookup started at %date% %time% === > "%outfile%"
  echo BSSID: %BSSID% >> "%outfile%"
  echo. >> "%outfile%"
  
  :: --- Run Python lookup ---
  python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py %BSSID% --all >> "%outfile%"
  
  :: --- Display results ---
  echo -----------------------------------------------
  type "%outfile%"
  echo -----------------------------------------------
  
  :: --- Block-aware parsing of coordinates (with delayed expansion) ---
  set "CAPTURE="
  set "LAT="
  set "LON="
  
  for /f "usebackq delims=" %%L in ("%outfile%") do (
      if /i "%%L"=="BSSID: %BSSID%" (
          set "CAPTURE=1"
          set "LAT="
          set "LON="
          echo [DEBUG] Found block start for %BSSID%
      ) else if defined CAPTURE (
          echo [DEBUG] Line in block: %%L
  
          echo %%L | findstr /i /c:"Latitude (degrees):" >nul
          if not errorlevel 1 (
              for /f "tokens=2 delims=:" %%A in ("%%L") do set "LAT=%%A"
              if defined LAT set "LAT=!LAT: =!"
              echo [DEBUG] Parsed LAT candidate = "!LAT!"
          )
  
          echo %%L | findstr /i /c:"Longitude (degrees):" >nul
          if not errorlevel 1 (
              for /f "tokens=2 delims=:" %%B in ("%%L") do set "LON=%%B"
              if defined LON set "LON=!LON: =!"
              echo [DEBUG] Parsed LON candidate = "!LON!"
          )
  
          if defined LAT if defined LON (
              goto :gotCoords
          )
  
          echo %%L | findstr /i /c:"BSSID:" >nul
          if not errorlevel 1 (
              set "CAPTURE="
          )
      )
  )
  
  :gotCoords
  echo [DEBUG] Final LAT = "!LAT!"
  echo [DEBUG] Final LON = "!LON!"
  
  :: --- Validate parsed coordinates ---
  if not defined LAT echo [DEBUG][ERROR] Latitude not captured. Check
Python output format near "BSSID: %BSSID%".
  if not defined LON echo [DEBUG][ERROR] Longitude not captured. Check
Python output format near "BSSID: %BSSID%".
  
  :: --- Save results --- 
  echo === Lookup finished at %date% %time% === >> "%outfile%"
  echo. >> "%outfile%"
  
  :: --- Append to session log ---
  echo [%date% %time%] BSSID: %BSSID% >> "%session_log%"
  echo Latitude: !LAT! >> "%session_log%"
  echo Longitude: !LON! >> "%session_log%"
  echo. >> "%session_log%"
  
  :: --- Append to master log ---
  echo [%date% %time%] BSSID: %BSSID% >> "%LOGDIR%\results.log"
  echo Latitude: !LAT! >> "%LOGDIR%\results.log"
  echo Longitude: !LON! >> "%LOGDIR%\results.log"
  echo. >> "%LOGDIR%\results.log"
  
  :: --- Open in Google Maps ---
  if defined LAT if defined LON start msedge
"https://www.google.com/maps/search/?api=1&query=!LAT!,!LON!"
  
  goto loop
  
  :end
  echo Exiting. Goodbye!
  endlocal
  
  :: end of C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssid.bat
-- 
bssid.bat

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#197953

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 03:09 +0300
Message-ID<117kvce$jpv$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197952
Maria Sophia wrote:
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             2,934 bssid.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,309 bssidcheck.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,979 bssidcompare.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM               316 bssidgenerate.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,312 bssidgenerate.ps1.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,348 bssidplot.py.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM            27,527 bssid_results.txt

 bssidcheck.bat


  @echo off
  :: This is C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssidcheck.bat 
  :: v1p0 20251217
  ::  reads a list of made-up BSSIDs from bssidcheck.txt
  ::  outputs to the console and into a timestamped log file 
  :: v1p1 20251217
  ::  added fullpath to output files in the console output
  :: v1p2 20251217
  ::  only log when a lookup is successful
  :: v1p3 20251217
  ::  added summary section of bssid's that were found
  
  :: Begin Log setup
  set LOGDIR=%~dp0log
  if not exist "%LOGDIR%" mkdir "%LOGDIR%"
  
  for /f %%A in ('wmic os get localdatetime ^| find "."') do set dt0=%%A
  set "session_ts=%dt0:~0,8%_%dt0:~8,6%"
  set "session_log=%LOGDIR%\session_%session_ts%.log"
  :: End Log setup
  
  :: --- begin Success list setup ---
  set "FOUND_LIST="
  :: --- end Success list setup ---
  
  echo === New BSSID lookup session started at %date% %time% === >> "%session_log%"
  echo Session log: %session_log%
  
  :: Begin FILE MODE
  if exist "%~dp0bssidcheck.txt" (
      echo Processing BSSIDs from bssidcheck.txt...
      for /f "usebackq tokens=*" %%X in ("%~dp0bssidcheck.txt") do (
          set "BSSID=%%X"
          call :process_bssid
      )
      goto end
  )
  :: End FILE MODE
  
  :: Begin INTERACTIVE MODE
  :loop
  echo.
  set /p BSSID=Enter the BSSID (or q to quit): 
  if /I "%BSSID%"=="q" goto end
  
  call :process_bssid
  goto loop
  
  :: End INTERACTIVE MODE
  
  :: Begin PROCESS ONE BSSID
  :process_bssid
  :: --- Clean up input ---
  set "BSSID=%BSSID:"=%"
  set "BSSID=%BSSID: =%"
  
  :: --- begin Make filename-safe version ---
  set "safeBSSID=%BSSID::=-%"
  :: --- end Make filename-safe version ---
  
  :: --- begin Generate timestamp for THIS lookup ---
  for /f %%A in ('wmic os get localdatetime ^| find "."') do set dt=%%A
  set "ts=%dt:~0,8%_%dt:~8,6%"
  :: --- end Generate timestamp for THIS lookup ---
  
  :: --- begin Timestamped output file ---
  set "outfile=%LOGDIR%\bssidlookup_%ts%_%safeBSSID%.log"
  :: --- end Timestamped output file ---
  
  :: --- begin Clear previous coordinates ---
  set LAT=
  set LON=
  :: --- end Clear previous coordinates ---
  
  :: --- begin Run Python lookup ---
  echo === Lookup started at %date% %time% === > "%outfile%"
  echo BSSID: %BSSID% >> "%outfile%"
  echo. >> "%outfile%"
  
  python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py %BSSID% --all >> "%outfile%"
  :: --- end Run Python lookup ---
  
  :: --- begin Display results ---
  echo -----------------------------------------------
  type "%outfile%"
  echo -----------------------------------------------
  if defined LAT if defined LON echo Log written to: %outfile%
  :: --- end Display results ---
  
  :: --- begin Extract coordinates ---
  for /f "tokens=2 delims=: " %%A in ('findstr /i "Latitude" "%outfile%"') do set LAT=%%A
  for /f "tokens=2 delims=: " %%B in ('findstr /i "Longitude" "%outfile%"') do set LON=%%B
  
  echo === Lookup finished at %date% %time% === >> "%outfile%"
  echo. >> "%outfile%"
  :: --- end Extract coordinates ---
  
  :: --- begin Append to session log ---
  if defined LAT if defined LON (
      echo [%date% %time%] BSSID: %BSSID% >> "%session_log%"
      echo Latitude: %LAT% >> "%session_log%"
      echo Longitude: %LON% >> "%session_log%"
      echo. >> "%session_log%"
  
      :: Add to success list
      set "FOUND_LIST=%FOUND_LIST% %BSSID%"
  )
  :: --- end Append to session log ---
  
  :: --- begin Append to master log ---
  if defined LAT if defined LON (
      echo [%date% %time%] BSSID: %BSSID% >> "%LOGDIR%\bssidcheck_%session_ts%.log"
      echo Latitude: %LAT% >> "%LOGDIR%\bssidcheck_%session_ts%.log"
      echo Longitude: %LON% >> "%LOGDIR%\bssidcheck_%session_ts%.log"
      echo. >> "%LOGDIR%\bssidcheck_%session_ts%.log"
  )
  :: --- end Append to master log ---
  
  :: --- begin Open in Google Maps ---
  if defined LAT if defined LON start msedge "https://www.google.com/maps/search/?api=1&query=%LAT%,%LON%"
  :: --- end Open in Google Maps ---
  
  goto :eof
  :: End PROCESS ONE BSSID
  
  
  :end
  
  :: --- begin Summary of successful lookups ---
  echo.
  echo ===== Summary of Successful BSSID Lookups =====
  if defined FOUND_LIST (
      echo %FOUND_LIST%
  ) else (
      echo No BSSIDs were successfully located.
  )
  echo ===============================================
  echo.
  :: --- end Summary of successful lookups ---
  
  echo Exiting. Goodbye!
  :: end of C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssidcheck.bat
  
-- 
 bssidcheck.bat

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#197954

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 03:12 +0300
Message-ID<117kvhf$m15$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197953
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             2,934 bssid.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,309 bssidcheck.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,979 bssidcompare.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM               316 bssidgenerate.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,312 bssidgenerate.ps1.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,348 bssidplot.py.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM            27,527 bssid_results.txt

bssidcompare.bat

  @echo off
  :: This is C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssidcompare.bat 
  :: v1p0 20251215
  ::  Outputs if there is movecment for any given BSSID in results.txt
  
  setlocal enabledelayedexpansion
  
  :: Threshold for movement (where 0.001 degrees is roughly 100 kilometers)
  set THRESH=0.001
  
  :: Input file collected using apple_bssid_locator open source code 
  :: These are actual BSSID:GPS pairs which you can test yourself!
  :: 28:6d:97:c8:5a:30	35.2948265	126.77577972
  :: 00:22:3f:a5:7b:33	35.29422378	126.77641296
  :: 10:62:e5:b1:8f:12	35.29444885	126.77671051
  :: 12:09:a5:53:df:13	35.29491043	126.77599334
  :: 28:6d:97:4f:be:d0	35.29439163	126.77655029
  :: 28:6d:97:b9:89:96	35.29463195	126.77554321000001
  :: 42:09:a5:53:df:13	35.294940940000004	126.7760086
  
  set INFILE=results.txt
  
  echo Checking for GPS movement greater than %THRESH% degrees...
  echo.
  
  :: Loop through each line of results.txt
  for /f "tokens=1,2,3 delims=    " %%A in (%INFILE%) do (
      set BSSID=%%A
      set LAT=%%B
      set LON=%%C
  
      :: If we've seen this BSSID before, compare
      if defined lastLAT[!BSSID!] (
          set /a diffLAT=1000000*( !LAT! - !lastLAT[!BSSID!]! )
          set /a diffLON=1000000*( !LON! - !lastLON[!BSSID!]! )
  
          :: Convert to absolute values
          if !diffLAT! lss 0 set /a diffLAT=-!diffLAT!
          if !diffLON! lss 0 set /a diffLON=-!diffLON!
  
          :: Compare against threshold (scaled by 1,000,000)
          set /a threshScaled=%THRESH%*1000000
          if !diffLAT! gtr !threshScaled! (
              echo BSSID !BSSID! moved in LAT by more than %THRESH% degrees
          )
          if !diffLON! gtr !threshScaled! (
              echo BSSID !BSSID! moved in LON by more than %THRESH% degrees
          )
      )
  
      :: Store current coordinates
      set lastLAT[!BSSID!]=!LAT!
      set lastLON[!BSSID!]=!LON!
  )
  
  echo.
  echo Comparison complete.
  endlocal
  
  :: end of C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssidcompare.bat 

-- 
bssidcompare.bat

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#197955

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 03:13 +0300
Message-ID<117kvjh$q0l$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197954
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             2,934 bssid.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,309 bssidcheck.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,979 bssidcompare.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM               316 bssidgenerate.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,312 bssidgenerate.ps1.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,348 bssidplot.py.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM            27,527 bssid_results.txt

bssidgenerate.bat

  @echo off
  :: C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssidgenerate.bat 
  :: Runs bssidgenerate.ps1 to generate random/sequential realistic BSSIDs 
  set "SCRIPT=%~dp0bssidgenerate.ps1"
  
  echo Running PowerShell script:
  echo %SCRIPT%
  echo.
  
  powershell -NoLogo -NoProfile -ExecutionPolicy Bypass -File "%SCRIPT%"
  

-- 
bssidgenerate.bat

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#197956

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 03:14 +0300
Message-ID<117kvm2$rb9$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197955
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             2,934 bssid.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,309 bssidcheck.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,979 bssidcompare.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM               316 bssidgenerate.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,312 bssidgenerate.ps1.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,348 bssidplot.py.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM            27,527 bssid_results.txt

bssidgenerate.ps1

  # C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssidgenerate.ps1
  # Usemodel: bssidgenerate.bat (runs this powershell script)
  # v1p0 20251217
  #  Generates BSSIDs based on user input.
  #  Prompts for:
  #   1. OUI (first half), e.g., F4:F2:6D (TP-Link)
  #   2. Number of BSSIDs to generate (e.g., 100)
  #   3. Mode: R = random, S = sequential
  # v1p1 20251217
  #  Saves results to bssidinput.txt
  #  Forces an OUI in case enter is hit prematurely
  # v1p2 20251217
  #  Added menu of the ten most common USA OUI's
  # v1p3 20251217
  #  Added sequential-mode starting block
  # v1p4 20251217
  #  Added wraparound protection (at FF:FF:FF)
  
  # --- BEGIN OUI MENU BLOCK ---
  Write-Host ""
  Write-Host "Select an OUI from the menu or press Enter to type your own:"
  Write-Host "  1) TP-Link        F4:F2:6D"
  Write-Host "  2) Netgear        44:94:FC"
  Write-Host "  3) Arris          60:31:97"
  Write-Host "  4) Ubiquiti       24:A4:3C"
  Write-Host "  5) Technicolor    10:13:31"
  Write-Host "  6) Cisco/Linksys  00:25:9C"
  Write-Host "  7) ASUS           AC:9E:17"
  Write-Host "  8) Google/Nest    F4:F5:D8"
  Write-Host "  9) Amazon/Eero    74:83:C2"
  Write-Host " 10) Hitron         C8:3A:35"
  Write-Host ""
  
  $choice = Read-Host "Enter menu number (1-10) or press Enter to type your own"
  
  switch ($choice) {
      "1" { $oui = "F4:F2:6D" }
      "2" { $oui = "44:94:FC" }
      "3" { $oui = "60:31:97" }
      "4" { $oui = "24:A4:3C" }
      "5" { $oui = "10:13:31" }
      "6" { $oui = "00:25:9C" }
      "7" { $oui = "AC:9E:17" }
      "8" { $oui = "F4:F5:D8" }
      "9" { $oui = "74:83:C2" }
      "10" { $oui = "C8:3A:35" }
      default { $oui = $null }
  }
  # --- END OUI MENU BLOCK ---
  
  # Ask for the first half (OUI)
  if (-not $oui) {
      $oui = Read-Host "Enter the first half (e.g., F4:F2:6D)"
  }
  $oui = $oui.ToUpper().Replace("-",":").Trim()
  
  # Prevent empty OUI
  if (-not $oui) {
      Write-Host "You must enter an OUI such as F4:F2:6D."
      exit
  }
  
  # Ask how many BSSIDs to generate
  $count = Read-Host "How many BSSIDs do you want to generate?"
  $count = [int]$count
  
  # Ask for mode: random or sequential
  $mode = Read-Host "Random or Sequential? (R/S)"
  $mode = $mode.ToUpper()
  
  Write-Host ""
  Write-Host "Generating BSSIDs..."
  Write-Host ""
  
  # Output file
  $outfile = "bssidinput.txt"
  Clear-Content -Path $outfile -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue
  
  # Function to format a number 0–255 as two hex digits
  function To-Hex([int]$n) {
      return "{0:X2}" -f $n
  }
  
  # Sequential mode
  if ($mode -eq "S") {
  
      # Ask for starting second-half (e.g., AB:CD:EF)
      $startHex = Read-Host "Enter starting second-half (e.g., AB:CD:EF) or press Enter for 00:00:00"
      if (-not $startHex) { $startHex = "00:00:00" }
  
      # Normalize
      $startHex = $startHex.ToUpper().Replace("-",":").Trim()
  
      # Convert to integer
      $parts = $startHex.Split(":")
      if ($parts.Count -ne 3) {
          Write-Host "Invalid starting value. Must be three bytes like AB:CD:EF."
          exit
      }
  
      $startVal = ([Convert]::ToInt32($parts[0],16) -shl 16) `
                + ([Convert]::ToInt32($parts[1],16) -shl 8) `
                +  [Convert]::ToInt32($parts[2],16)
  
      $maxVal = 0xFFFFFF
  
      for ($i = 0; $i -lt $count; $i++) {
  
          $val = $startVal + $i
  
          if ($val -gt $maxVal) {
              Write-Host "Reached maximum value FF:FF:FF. Stopping."
              break
          }
  
          $b1 = ($val -shr 16) -band 0xFF
          $b2 = ($val -shr 8)  -band 0xFF
          $b3 =  $val          -band 0xFF
  
          $bssid = "${oui}:{0}:{1}:{2}" -f (To-Hex $b1), (To-Hex $b2), (To-Hex $b3)
          Write-Host $bssid
          Add-Content -Path $outfile -Value $bssid
      }
  }
  
  # Random mode
  elseif ($mode -eq "R") {
      $rand = New-Object System.Random
      for ($i = 0; $i -lt $count; $i++) {
          $b1 = $rand.Next(0,256)
          $b2 = $rand.Next(0,256)
          $b3 = $rand.Next(0,256)
  
          $bssid = "${oui}:{0}:{1}:{2}" -f (To-Hex $b1), (To-Hex $b2), (To-Hex $b3)
          Write-Host $bssid
          Add-Content -Path $outfile -Value $bssid
      }
  }
  
  else {
      Write-Host "Invalid choice. Please enter R or S."
  }
  
  Write-Host ""
  Write-Host "Output file saved to: $(Resolve-Path $outfile)"
  
  # end of C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\bssidgenerate.ps1

-- 
bssidgenerate.ps1

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#197957

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 03:16 +0300
Message-ID<117kvoq$vkn$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197956
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             2,934 bssid.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,309 bssidcheck.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,979 bssidcompare.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM               316 bssidgenerate.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,312 bssidgenerate.ps1.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,348 bssidplot.py.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM            27,527 bssid_results.txt

 bssidplot.py

  import folium
  # This is C:\app\os\python\bssidplot.py
  # USAGE: python bssidplot.py
  # v1p0 20251214
  #  Plots en masse GPS:BSSID pairs from results.txt using FOSS Folium 
  # v1p1 20251215 
  #  Generates bssid_map.html from results.txt using Folium
  # v1p2 20251215 
  #  Brings up the bssid_map.html plot using the default web browser
  
  import folium
  
  # Read results.txt
  points = []
  with open("results.txt") as f:
      for line in f:
          parts = line.strip().split("\t")
          if len(parts) == 3:
              mac, lat, lon = parts
              points.append((mac, float(lat), float(lon)))
  
  if not points:
      print("No points found in results.txt")
      exit()
  
  # Center map on the first point
  start_lat, start_lon = points[0][1], points[0][2]
  m = folium.Map(location=[start_lat, start_lon], zoom_start=15)
  
  # Add markers
  for mac, lat, lon in points:
      folium.Marker(
          location=[lat, lon],
          popup=f"{mac}\n({lat}, {lon})",
          icon=folium.Icon(color="blue", icon="wifi", prefix="fa")
      ).add_to(m)
  
  # Save map
  m.save("bssid_map.html")
  print("Map saved to bssid_map.html")
  
  # Open map in Microsoft Edge
  import subprocess
  import os
  map_path = os.path.abspath("bssid_map.html")
  import subprocess
  subprocess.Popen(['cmd', '/c', 'start', '', map_path])   
  # end of C:\app\os\python\bssidplot.py

-- 
 bssidplot.py

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#197958

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 03:18 +0300
Message-ID<117kvrt$11kf$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197957
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             2,934 bssid.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,309 bssidcheck.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,979 bssidcompare.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM               316 bssidgenerate.bat.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             4,312 bssidgenerate.ps1.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM             1,348 bssidplot.py.txt
>      12/17/2025  02:28 PM            27,527 bssid_results.txt

bssid_results.txt

BSSID's can be checked using this Apple WPS query:
 <https://wavedigger.networksurvey.app/?tab=bssid>

 ===== Summary of Successful BSSID Lookups =====
 F4:F2:6D:B6:A6:97
 F4:F2:6D:38:43:72 
 F4:F2:6D:8E:DE:DC 
 F4:F2:6D:87:0A:CE 
 etc.
 ===============================================

Click on these links:
 <https://wavedigger.networksurvey.app/?tab=bssid&bssid=F4-F2-6D-B6-A6-97>
 <https://wavedigger.networksurvey.app/?tab=bssid&bssid=F4-F2-6D-38-43-72>
 <https://wavedigger.networksurvey.app/?tab=bssid&bssid=F4-F2-6D-8E-DE-DC>
 <https://wavedigger.networksurvey.app/?tab=bssid&bssid=F4-F2-6D-87-0A-CE>
 etc.

Here's a report of the nearest 400 APs to the Shreveport Louisiana BSSID:
 <https://www.google.com/maps/place/32°27'32.07"N+93°48'53.84"W/>
  (4302 Josey Cir, Shreveport, LA 71109)

  Enter the BSSID (or q to quit): F4:F2:6D:B6:A6:97
  -----------------------------------------------
  === Lookup started at Wed 12/17/2025  3:15:21.02 ===
  BSSID: F4:F2:6D:B6:A6:97
  
  Searching for location of bssid: F4:F2:6D:B6:A6:97
  Saved 309 entries to results.txt
  BSSID: f4:f2:6d:b6:a6:97
  Latitude: 32.45974349
  Longitude: -93.81695556
  
  BSSID: 18:de:50:5b:14:6c
  Latitude: 32.45925521
  Longitude: -93.81757354
  
  BSSID: 1a:1e:19:0d:c9:a9
  Latitude: 32.45926666
  Longitude: -93.8175888
  
  BSSID: 1e:9e:cc:d6:cb:71
  Latitude: 32.45985031
  Longitude: -93.81725311
  
  BSSID: 1e:9e:cc:d6:cb:76
  Latitude: 32.45985031
  Longitude: -93.81725311
  
  BSSID: 02:aa:a0:ba:26:e0
  Latitude: 32.45988464
  Longitude: -93.81759643000001
  
  BSSID: 50:95:51:b5:b6:ae
  Latitude: 32.4591217
  Longitude: -93.81761169
  
  BSSID: 54:b2:03:2f:1b:60
  Latitude: 32.45988082
  Longitude: -93.81723022
  
  BSSID: 62:b2:03:2f:1b:60
  Latitude: 32.45986175
  Longitude: -93.81723785
  
  BSSID: 06:aa:a0:ba:26:e0
  Latitude: 32.45986938
  Longitude: -93.81759643000001
  
  BSSID: 6a:b2:03:2f:1b:60
  Latitude: 32.45987701
  Longitude: -93.81723022
  
  BSSID: 6e:b2:03:2f:1b:60
  Latitude: 32.459846490000004
  Longitude: -93.81730651000001
  
  BSSID: 84:eb:3e:f8:36:d3
  Latitude: 32.45880508
  Longitude: -93.81717681
  
  BSSID: 84:eb:3e:fa:b2:63
  Latitude: 32.4595375
  Longitude: -93.81742858
  
  BSSID: 84:eb:3f:08:e0:72
  Latitude: 32.45973968
  Longitude: -93.81745147000001
  
  BSSID: 8c:76:3f:f8:5d:cd
  Latitude: 32.45948791
  Longitude: -93.81759643000001
  
  BSSID: 8c:85:80:d1:be:37
  Latitude: 32.45985031
  Longitude: -93.81759643000001
  
  BSSID: 8e:76:3f:f8:5d:cd
  Latitude: 32.4594841
  Longitude: -93.8175888
  
  BSSID: 92:76:3f:f8:5d:cd
  Latitude: 32.4594841
  Longitude: -93.81756591
  
  BSSID: 92:95:51:b5:b6:ae
  Latitude: 32.45910644
  Longitude: -93.81759643000001
  
  BSSID: 96:76:3f:f8:5d:cd
  Latitude: 32.45948791
  Longitude: -93.8175888
  
  BSSID: 96:ad:43:e3:f8:a8
  Latitude: 32.45892715
  Longitude: -93.81752014
  
  BSSID: 9c:34:26:9e:ff:4a
  Latitude: 32.45941162
  Longitude: -93.8166275
  
  BSSID: 9e:34:26:9e:ff:4a
  Latitude: 32.45940017
  Longitude: -93.81663513000001
  
  BSSID: ae:4c:a5:65:93:62
  Latitude: 32.45982742
  Longitude: -93.81752014
  
  BSSID: ae:4c:a5:65:93:67
  Latitude: 32.45983505
  Longitude: -93.81752014
  
  BSSID: ba:5e:71:08:7c:6c
  Latitude: 32.45958709
  Longitude: -93.81726837000001
  
  BSSID: ba:5e:71:08:7c:6f
  Latitude: 32.45959091
  Longitude: -93.81725311
  
  BSSID: bc:9b:68:7e:15:c0
  Latitude: 32.45943069
  Longitude: -93.817276
  
  BSSID: bc:9b:68:7e:15:c1
  Latitude: 32.4594078
  Longitude: -93.817276
  
  BSSID: bc:9b:68:7e:15:c3
  Latitude: 32.459438320000004
  Longitude: -93.817276
  
  BSSID: bc:9b:68:7e:15:c5
  Latitude: 32.45941543
  Longitude: -93.81728363
  
  BSSID: bc:9b:68:7e:15:c6
  Latitude: 32.45944976
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  BSSID: ae:ae:19:be:75:b9
  Latitude: 32.45865631
  Longitude: -93.81803894000001
  
  BSSID: be:34:26:24:02:fe
  Latitude: 32.45854187
  Longitude: -93.81868743
  
  BSSID: be:d7:d4:c9:42:98
  Latitude: 32.4582901
  Longitude: -93.81867218000001
  
  BSSID: c6:50:9c:9d:03:92
  Latitude: 32.45809555
  Longitude: -93.81854248
  
  BSSID: dc:eb:69:59:75:17
  Latitude: 32.45872497
  Longitude: -93.81905364
  
  BSSID: dc:eb:69:59:75:1a
  Latitude: 32.45876693
  Longitude: -93.81905364
  
  BSSID: dc:eb:69:59:75:1c
  Latitude: 32.458740230000004
  Longitude: -93.81904602
  
  BSSID: dc:eb:69:59:75:1d
  Latitude: 32.45874404
  Longitude: -93.81906127
  
  BSSID: de:34:26:24:02:fe
  Latitude: 32.45853424
  Longitude: -93.8186798
  
  BSSID: e2:db:d1:ca:98:99
  Latitude: 32.45833587
  Longitude: -93.8184967
  
  BSSID: f6:79:0a:5a:0e:aa
  Latitude: 32.45858383
  Longitude: -93.81819915
  
  BSSID: f8:79:0a:5a:0e:aa
  Latitude: 32.45858001
  Longitude: -93.81817626
  
  BSSID: 3c:b7:4b:a2:12:6f
  Latitude: 32.45782089
  Longitude: -93.81845855
  
  BSSID: 3c:b7:4b:a2:12:72
  Latitude: 32.45783233
  Longitude: -93.81846618
  
  BSSID: 4a:ea:62:bb:12:84
  Latitude: 32.45869445
  Longitude: -93.81802368
  
  BSSID: 08:65:f0:84:e3:7e
  Latitude: 32.45810699
  Longitude: -93.81805419
  
  BSSID: 08:65:f0:85:ab:f6
  Latitude: 32.45824813
  Longitude: -93.81806182
  
  BSSID: 9e:b3:f7:e9:12:d2
  Latitude: 32.45869445
  Longitude: -93.81893157
  
  BSSID: a6:6a:44:d3:d3:fb
  Latitude: 32.45800399
  Longitude: -93.81819915
  
  BSSID: b6:53:d2:96:a3:a6
  Latitude: 32.45809936
  Longitude: -93.81781768
  
  BSSID: be:d7:d4:d1:6d:a5
  Latitude: 32.4582138
  Longitude: -93.81854248
  
  BSSID: de:cd:2f:94:a1:f3
  Latitude: 32.45821762
  Longitude: -93.81860351
  
  BSSID: bc:64:4b:13:e5:b4
  Latitude: 32.45775985
  Longitude: -93.81871795
  
  BSSID: 0e:64:4b:13:e5:b4
  Latitude: 32.4577713
  Longitude: -93.81870269
  
  BSSID: 6e:29:90:48:48:f8
  Latitude: 32.45824813
  Longitude: -93.81910705
  
  BSSID: 6e:29:90:44:df:e4
  Latitude: 32.45845794
  Longitude: -93.81904602
  
  BSSID: 6e:29:90:48:5c:92
  Latitude: 32.45841598
  Longitude: -93.81911468
  
  BSSID: 10:9a:dd:89:81:75
  Latitude: 32.46053314
  Longitude: -93.81541442
  
  BSSID: 16:93:7c:21:d8:cd
  Latitude: 32.460472100000004
  Longitude: -93.81539154000001
  
  BSSID: 1c:93:7c:21:d8:cd
  Latitude: 32.46047592
  Longitude: -93.81538391000001
  
  BSSID: 1e:51:a4:d5:ad:2e
  Latitude: 32.46110534
  Longitude: -93.81504821
  
  BSSID: 22:76:13:0c:4a:e6
  Latitude: 32.46063232
  Longitude: -93.81548309
  
  BSSID: 02:71:47:b8:8e:45
  Latitude: 32.46051788
  Longitude: -93.81537628
  
  BSSID: 02:a0:0d:cf:38:92
  Latitude: 32.46069717
  Longitude: -93.81577301
  
  BSSID: 2a:c5:c8:13:e4:09
  Latitude: 32.46052169
  Longitude: -93.81542205
  
  BSSID: 3a:a0:97:ae:25:b0
  Latitude: 32.46107101
  Longitude: -93.81588745
  
  BSSID: 42:75:c3:38:ad:5d
  Latitude: 32.45996475
  Longitude: -93.81601715000001
  
  BSSID: 48:ea:62:19:c1:37
  Latitude: 32.46043395
  Longitude: -93.81559753
  
  BSSID: 58:07:f8:2c:e9:f4
  Latitude: 32.46059417
  Longitude: -93.81523895000001
  
  BSSID: 84:eb:3f:39:d3:36
  Latitude: 32.460472100000004
  Longitude: -93.81536102
  
  BSSID: c0:a0:0d:cf:38:92
  Latitude: 32.46071243
  Longitude: -93.81578826
  
  BSSID: c2:38:96:68:ab:18
  Latitude: 32.46050643
  Longitude: -93.81540679
  
  BSSID: e2:a0:0d:cf:38:92
  Latitude: 32.46071243
  Longitude: -93.81578063
  
  BSSID: e8:97:b8:8e:f4:99
  Latitude: 32.4604988
  Longitude: -93.81613159
  
  BSSID: 0e:93:7c:21:d8:cd
  Latitude: 32.46048355
  Longitude: -93.81538391000001
  
  BSSID: f8:a0:97:ae:25:b0
  Latitude: 32.46107482
  Longitude: -93.8159027
  
  BSSID: 28:6b:b4:e6:5a:6a
  Latitude: 32.46052169
  Longitude: -93.81571197
  
  BSSID: 42:75:c3:38:ad:59
  Latitude: 32.46013259
  Longitude: -93.81605529000001
  
  BSSID: 42:75:c3:38:ad:5a
  Latitude: 32.46012878
  Longitude: -93.81604766
  
  BSSID: 42:75:c3:38:ad:5e
  Latitude: 32.46014404
  Longitude: -93.81604766
  
  BSSID: 42:75:c3:38:ad:5f
  Latitude: 32.46013259
  Longitude: -93.81605529000001
  
  BSSID: 54:21:60:82:37:08
  Latitude: 32.46048736
  Longitude: -93.81610107
  
  BSSID: 8c:61:a3:83:5c:19
  Latitude: 32.4610939
  Longitude: -93.81595611
  
  BSSID: 8c:85:80:e4:91:ab
  Latitude: 32.46012115
  Longitude: -93.81610107
  
  BSSID: 90:d0:92:56:be:64
  Latitude: 32.46058654
  Longitude: -93.81621551
  
  BSSID: a2:ff:70:fe:7b:e8
  Latitude: 32.46064376
  Longitude: -93.81583404
  
  BSSID: a2:ff:70:fe:7b:ed
  Latitude: 32.46063995
  Longitude: -93.81584167
  
  BSSID: 0a:05:81:2b:bb:4d
  Latitude: 32.4604988
  Longitude: -93.81541442
  
  BSSID: ae:61:a3:83:5c:19
  Latitude: 32.4610939
  Longitude: -93.81596374
  
  BSSID: c2:e5:da:6e:1b:48
  Latitude: 32.46081161
  Longitude: -93.81608581
  
  BSSID: ce:61:a3:83:5c:19
  Latitude: 32.46108627
  Longitude: -93.81595611
  
  BSSID: 86:ea:ed:40:1b:57
  Latitude: 32.4599533
  Longitude: -93.81594848
  
  BSSID: da:a0:11:b9:d5:51
  Latitude: 32.46051788
  Longitude: -93.81621551
  
  BSSID: 72:13:01:e1:d9:21
  Latitude: 32.4601593
  Longitude: -93.81848907
  
  BSSID: 72:13:01:e1:d9:22
  Latitude: 32.46015167
  Longitude: -93.81848907
  
  BSSID: 72:13:01:e1:d9:26
  Latitude: 32.46016311
  Longitude: -93.81850433
  
  BSSID: 84:eb:3f:39:cb:07
  Latitude: 32.46070098
  Longitude: -93.81808471000001
  
  BSSID: 84:eb:3f:07:10:ef
  Latitude: 32.46009826
  Longitude: -93.81835174
  
  BSSID: 8c:61:a3:a1:11:01
  Latitude: 32.46061325
  Longitude: -93.8179779
  
  BSSID: 8c:76:3f:51:c7:f7
  Latitude: 32.46059036
  Longitude: -93.81776428
  
  BSSID: 8c:0f:6f:1b:1a:60
  Latitude: 32.46043014
  Longitude: -93.81858062
  
  BSSID: 8e:49:62:6e:f4:8a
  Latitude: 32.46063995
  Longitude: -93.81803131
  
  BSSID: 8e:76:3f:51:c7:f7
  Latitude: 32.46057891
  Longitude: -93.81777954
  
  BSSID: 96:76:3f:51:c7:f7
  Latitude: 32.46059417
  Longitude: -93.81775665
  
  BSSID: 9a:0f:6f:1b:1a:60
  Latitude: 32.46042251
  Longitude: -93.81858825
  
  BSSID: a0:68:7e:90:9d:50
  Latitude: 32.46071243
  Longitude: -93.81809997
  
  BSSID: a2:0f:6f:1b:1a:60
  Latitude: 32.460426330000004
  Longitude: -93.81858825
  
  BSSID: a6:0f:6f:1b:1a:60
  Latitude: 32.46038436
  Longitude: -93.81861877
  
  BSSID: cc:58:30:61:e8:27
  Latitude: 32.46091461
  Longitude: -93.81833648
  
  BSSID: d4:5d:df:e4:38:10
  Latitude: 32.46094512
  Longitude: -93.81808471000001
  
  BSSID: 18:60:24:d6:92:0f
  Latitude: 32.46081161
  Longitude: -93.81790161
  
  BSSID: 2a:c5:c8:04:a7:dd
  Latitude: 32.46001434
  Longitude: -93.81880187
  
  BSSID: 4a:4b:d4:6a:36:fd
  Latitude: 32.46064376
  Longitude: -93.81900787000001
  
  BSSID: 8e:49:62:f2:22:22
  Latitude: 32.460762020000004
  Longitude: -93.81889343
  
  BSSID: ae:61:a3:a1:11:01
  Latitude: 32.46060943
  Longitude: -93.8179779
  
  BSSID: ce:61:a3:a1:11:01
  Latitude: 32.46060943
  Longitude: -93.8179779
  
  BSSID: d4:5d:df:e8:5b:90
  Latitude: 32.46016311
  Longitude: -93.81820678
  
  BSSID: e2:5d:df:e8:5b:90
  Latitude: 32.46017837
  Longitude: -93.81820678
  
  BSSID: ea:01:c7:48:27:3c
  Latitude: 32.46076965
  Longitude: -93.81806945
  
  BSSID: ea:5d:df:e4:38:10
  Latitude: 32.46091842
  Longitude: -93.81809234
  
  BSSID: ea:5d:df:e8:5b:90
  Latitude: 32.46017074
  Longitude: -93.81820678
  
  BSSID: ee:5d:df:e8:5b:90
  Latitude: 32.46022033
  Longitude: -93.81821441
  
  BSSID: fa:d2:ac:08:fd:ed
  Latitude: 32.46027374
  Longitude: -93.81826782
  
  BSSID: fc:51:a4:ae:a5:50
  Latitude: 32.46082305
  Longitude: -93.81792449
  
  BSSID: fe:51:a4:ae:a5:50
  Latitude: 32.46081542
  Longitude: -93.81790924
  
  BSSID: e2:3e:cb:98:c8:2c
  Latitude: 32.46010589
  Longitude: -93.81864929
  
  BSSID: 00:18:f8:c1:4a:65
  Latitude: 32.45991134
  Longitude: -93.81384277000001
  
  BSSID: 02:aa:a0:e3:5f:38
  Latitude: 32.458904260000004
  Longitude: -93.81495666
  
  BSSID: 06:aa:a0:e3:5f:38
  Latitude: 32.45891189
  Longitude: -93.81496429
  
  BSSID: 72:13:01:01:99:9a
  Latitude: 32.45918273
  Longitude: -93.81450653
  
  BSSID: 72:13:01:01:99:9d
  Latitude: 32.45917892
  Longitude: -93.81450653
  
  BSSID: ec:aa:a0:e3:5f:38
  Latitude: 32.45891189
  Longitude: -93.81495666
  
  BSSID: fa:aa:a0:e3:5f:38
  Latitude: 32.45890808
  Longitude: -93.81495666
  -----------------------------------------------

-- 
bssid_results.txt

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#197960

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 04:23 +0300
Message-ID<117l3ne$247a$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197958
With the code supplied above, anyone can easily track the movements of 
every access point BSSID in the world (that is in Apple's WPS database).
 *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
 <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>

Note the word "mass" indicates we can not only track a single BSSID's 
location, but we can track every single BSSID in the world's location.

It's trivial to do, but only with Apple's WPS database.
It cannot be done with any other WPS database that I am aware of.

To his credit, Jon Ribbens proved the veracity of these statements by 
tracking his own BSSID location using the Python code in that article.

 ====================================================================
 From: Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
 Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.comp.os.windows-10
 Subject: Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy
 Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2026 00:06:34 -0000 (UTC)
 Message-ID: <slrn119pbka.8k8.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

 > HINT: I can track the future location of every one of those billions of
 > government ID/GPS location pairs, without any restrictions on my scripts!
 >
 > Want to prove that?
 > What's your home router BSSID?
 >
 > I will not only tell you exactly where that router is located (I even wrote
 > the Python code to give me a dot on an OSM map for your location) but I can
 > trivially easily forever track that router's location forever, without any
 > restrictions on my part (which is the point of the paper, after all).

 Yes, I know that too now, after reading the paper. I downloaded the
 code at https://github.com/darkosancanin/apple_bssid_locator (which
 was originally uploaded in 2015) and ran it locally with my own AP
 MAC address and confirmed it showed my home location very accurately.

 It does concern me that there is an attack model here which is that
 a mildly technically-inclined stalker can very easily get the BSSID
 of their victim and, as you say, find out where they've gone if they
 move house to get away from them.
 ====================================================================

For others to benefit from, in my records is this initial version of
apple_bssid_locator.py where when I ran it, I was horrified to find
that every one of my dozens of hidden access point BSSIDs were there!

I suggest each user on this thread who wishes to better understand the
nature of the problem set (as described by the paper), run this code.

  #!/usr/bin/env -S uv run --script
  # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
  
  # C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\apple_bssid_locator.py
  # Queries Apple WPS database for GPS:BSSID location pairs
  # Implementation based on https://github.com/hubert3/iSniff-GPS 
  #
  # Usage: apple_bssid_locator.py 11:22:33:AA:BB:CC 
  # Usage: apple_bssid_locator.py 11:22:33:AA:BB:CC --all
  # Usage: apple_bssid_locator.py 11:22:33:AA:BB:CC --map
  #
  # Changelog:
  # v1p0 20251205 - Initial version from apple_bssid_locator.py
  # v1p1 20251214 - Added logging to results.txt
  # v1p2 20251215 - Timestamped results.txt to avoid overwrites
  # v1p3 20251219 - Limited output to 6 decimal places
  # v1p4 20251219 - Added raw integer output alongside converted decimals
  # v1p5 20251222 - Fixed raw to decimal conversion (divide by 100 Million)
  
  import argparse
  import requests
  import webbrowser
  import AppleWLoc_pb2
  
  def parse_arguments():
      parser = argparse.ArgumentParser()
      parser.add_argument("bssid", type=str, help="display the location of 
the bssid")
      parser.add_argument("-m", "--map", help="shows the location on google 
maps", action='store_true')
      parser.add_argument("-a", "--all", help="shows all results returned, 
not just the requested one", action='store_true')
      args = parser.parse_args()
      return args
  
  def format_bssid(bssid):
      return ':'.join(e.rjust(2, '0') for e in bssid.split(':'))
  
  def query_bssid(bssid, output_file="results.txt"):
      apple_wloc = AppleWLoc_pb2.AppleWLoc()
      wifi_device = apple_wloc.wifi_devices.add()
      wifi_device.bssid = bssid
      apple_wloc.unknown_value1 = 0
      apple_wloc.return_single_result = 0   # request ALL results
      serialized_apple_wloc = apple_wloc.SerializeToString()
      length_serialized_apple_wloc = len(serialized_apple_wloc)
  
      headers = {'User-Agent':'locationd/1753.17 CFNetwork/889.9 
Darwin/17.2.0'}
      data = 
b"\x00\x01\x00\x05"+b"en_US"+b"\x00\x13"+b"com.apple.locationd"+b"\x00\x0a"+b"8.1.12B411"+b"\x00\x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00" 
+ bytes((length_serialized_apple_wloc,)) + serialized_apple_wloc
      r = requests.post('https://gs-loc.apple.com/clls/wloc', 
headers=headers, data=data)
  
      apple_wloc = AppleWLoc_pb2.AppleWLoc()
      apple_wloc.ParseFromString(r.content[10:])
  
      # Build dictionary of results
      results = {}
      with open(output_file, "w") as f:
          for wifi_device in apple_wloc.wifi_devices:
              if wifi_device.HasField('location'):
                  raw_lat = wifi_device.location.latitude
                  raw_lon = wifi_device.location.longitude
                  lat = raw_lat * 1e-8
                  lon = raw_lon * 1e-8
                  mac = format_bssid(wifi_device.bssid)
                  results[mac] = (lat, lon, raw_lat, raw_lon)
                  # Write both raw integers and converted decimals (8 
decimal places)
                  
f.write(f"{mac}\t{raw_lat}\t{raw_lon}\t{lat:.8f}\t{lon:.8f}\n")
  
      print(f"Saved {len(results)} entries to {output_file}")
      return results
  
  def main():
      args = parse_arguments()
      print("Searching for location of bssid: %s" % args.bssid)
      results = query_bssid(args.bssid)
  
      # Determine which BSSIDs to process
      bssids_to_process = results.keys() if args.all else 
[args.bssid.lower()]
  
      found = False
      for bssid in bssids_to_process:
          if bssid in results:
              lat, lon, raw_lat, raw_lon = results[bssid]
              if lat == -180.0 and lon == -180.0:
                  continue  # Skip entries that were not found
              if found:
                  print()
              print(f"BSSID: {bssid}")
              print(f"Raw latitude integer: {raw_lat}")
              print(f"Raw longitude integer: {raw_lon}")
              print(f"Latitude (degrees): {lat:.8f}")
              print(f"Longitude (degrees): {lon:.8f}")
              if args.map:
                  url = 
f"http://www.google.com/maps/place/{lat:.8f},{lon:.8f}"
                  webbrowser.open(url)
              found = True
      if not found:
          print("The bssid was not found.")
  
  if __name__ == '__main__':
      main()
  
  # end of C:\app\os\python\apple_bssid_locator\apple_bssid_locator.py
-- 
apple_bssid_locator.py

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#197961

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-06 19:03 -0700
Message-ID<117l62n$2s6o1$1@kst.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#197952
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> writes:
> Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> So, together, the Windows & Python newsgroup honed the working code.
>>> Do you need me to supply the code for you again so you can run it?
>> 
>> You haven't supplied it once.  If you did, I personally would not be
>> interested in running it, but it might at least be topical in
>> comp.lang.python *if* anyone actually discusses the code.
>
> Hi Keith Thompson,
>
> Thank you for bringing up your point of view, as all points are valid here.
> This is Usenet where we welcome deep detailed discussion of tech topics.

Usenet welcomes technical discussion of topics that are relevant to the
newsgroups in which they are posted.

> Jon Ribbens clearly ran the code so we have proof that it was referenced
> properly enough for him to have run it on his machine to prove the point.

I don't know or care where Jon Ribbens obtained any Python code.
Perhaps you provided it to him directly.  It wasn't posted here.

> Nonetheless, it's good you're *asking* for the Python code, which I only
> ran on Windows 10, and which I'm happy to supply to you for all to review.

I don't know how you misunderstood what I wrote so badly.

I haven't asked for Python code.  I've observed that you haven't
posted any Python code, and therefore your posts should not be
in comp.lang.python.  If you want to talk about Python here in
comp.lang.python, that's great.  If you don't, I wish you'd go away.

> Please keep in mind the progression of this topic started with this paper:
>  *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
>  <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>
> 
> As Jon Ribbens did, I simply ran the Python code in that article on my PC.

Are you claiming that there's Python code in that paper?  There is none
in the PDF.  (I didn't read it in any depth because it's not something I
care about.)

I see you've posted some Python source code later in this thread, along
with Windows batch and PowerShell.  Since you haven't said anything
about the code (how it's written, what features it uses, how it could be
improved), I suggest that it's (a) far too late to excuse you behavior
so far, and (b) still inappropriate for comp.lang.python.

Feel free to have the last word and pretend you've won.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#197939

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2026-09-06 11:57 +0000
Message-ID<117jrft.j88.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#197919
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> writes:
> [...]
> > Heh heh heh... 
> >
> > While I realize Apple religious zealots will attack people personally
> [SNIP]
> 
> Can you please restrict this to newsgroups where it's relevant?
> 
> In particularly, there's in this thread nothing about Python or
> Windows 10.

  I'm sorry, but no can do: Usenet/NetNews doesn't allow an empty
'Newsgroups:' header.

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#197920

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-09-05 06:44 +0000
Message-ID<117gdnl$19ma2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#197911
On Sat, 5 Sep 2026 06:15:55 +0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

> Do you know the difference between these two situations:
>   a. iPhone owner happens to walk by my house & it uploads my BSSID/GPS?
>   b. Android owner happens to walk by my house & it uploads my BSSID/GPS?

If there is any difference, it would not be wise to rely on it.

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#197926

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-05 14:35 -0300
Message-ID<117hjti$sa2$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197920
Lawrence D㏕liveiro wrote:
>> Do you know the difference between these two situations:
>>   a. iPhone owner happens to walk by my house & it uploads my BSSID/GPS?
>>   b. Android owner happens to walk by my house & it uploads my BSSID/GPS?
> 
> If there is any difference, it would not be wise to rely on it.

There is a *huge* difference, Lawrence.

For half of that huge difference, all you need to do is read this paper.
 *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
 <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>

For the other half of that huge difference, all you need to read is this.
 <https://ichnaea.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api/geosubmit2.html>
    "The BSSID of the Wifi network. Hidden Wifi networks
     must not be collected."

Then, read how much Apple "cares about your privacy" by reading this!
 <https://support.apple.com/en-ie/102515>

For contrast, read this:
 <https://wiki.mozilla.org/CloudServices/Location/FAQ>
 <https://wiki.mozilla.org/WIFI>

HINT: 
Mozilla/MLS would not collect data from Wi-Fi networks with hidden SSIDs.
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1177952>

Daniel Veditz confirmed that Mozilla MLS, like Google WPS, does not even
*collect* the BSSID/GPS pair for hidden-broadcast SSIDs. 

Notice the difference between 'collect', 'save on device" and 'upload' to
servers, because collecting means it can't be uploaded and hence not saved
into a global database for everyone in the world to easily track the router
movements from anywhere in the world to anywhere else in the world, in
almost real time with meter-like accuracy with no restrictions at all.

Most people don't understand a word I'm saying above, so I need to be clear
that "collecting" is different from "uploading" which itself is different
from "saving" which itself is different from "allowing anyone in the entire
world to access the unique BSSID/SSID pair" sans restrictions.

If you think through the fate of the two situations I keep presenting to
you, you'll see where they diverge in such a way as to be shockingly scary.

With the Python scripts we worked on in December of last year, even I can
track any router's movements in the world, with zero restrictions.

Want to test it?
Give me your router AP BSSID in your own home.

I'll tell you where you live.

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#197906

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2026-09-03 15:48 -0700
Message-ID<87a4pykl2c.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to#197903
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> I don’t understand what you’re complaining about, exactly. Your wi-fi
> network broadcasts its existence to all and sundry, and yet you feel
> upset when somebody collects that information and passes it on.

Your car broadcasts its license plate number to anyone in sight of it,
yet people are rightfully ticked off at Flock cameras everywhere
recording them.

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#197907

FromAnton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc>
Date2026-09-04 02:02 +0300
Message-ID<20260904020244.c8a3fcce14ca5eb4f7473c14@gmail.moc>
In reply to#197906
Paul Rubi:

> Your car broadcasts its license plate number to anyone in
> sight of it, yet people are rightfully ticked off at Flock
> cameras everywhere recording them.

Because machine data acquirement is more powerful.

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments

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#197917

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-05 07:46 +0600
Message-ID<117fsac$23sa$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197907
Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Your car broadcasts its license plate number to anyone in
>> sight of it, yet people are rightfully ticked off at Flock
>> cameras everywhere recording them.
> 
> Because machine data acquirement is more powerful.

The flock camera analogy only works if anyone in the world can access it.
 *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
 <https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.14975>

While I understand the analogies being presented, and certainly I
understand the purpose is to claim "no big deal" as a result, I must beg to
differ because the analogies, while reasonable, fall flat on some regards.

What if, for example, the government allowed you to put a black cloth over
your license plate, and that is a clear indication that you don't want it
to be recorded by Flock cameras (& by extension, your movements recorded).

What if Google cameras respected that black cloth as did Mozilla cameras.
But what if Apple cameras refused to respect that common leave-me-alone
black cloth?

Think about that.
What if *only* Apple cameras lifted up that black cloth, on purpose.
So that they could get your unique vehicle VIN that tracks you everywhere.

Pretty bad, huh?
But wait... it gets worse.

What if the Google camera, if it happens to get your license plate, which
is tied to your unique VIN, but the Google camera sees *another* indicator
that you do not want them to put that license plate into their database.

Let's say that's a sticker, on the plate, that says, oh, let's say _nomap.

What does Apple do? 
Versus what Google and Mozilla do?

But wait, if that's not bad enough, there's still more. A lot more in fact.

What if anyone in the world could look up that license plate & related VIN
from anywhere in the world, and there are absolutely no controls on that?

What?

Do you see the difference?

Allow me to provide an example:
 a. Let's say my ex-wife is in Germany, back in the home country
 b. But, she wants to track my vehicle everywhere I go
 c. As described in the aforementioned research paper, she can.

It's no different than you choosing the license plate of your ex-wife (or
whomever) and tracking them anywhere in the world, with no controls on
that.

Do you see why understanding the problem set makes the flock camera issue
only superficially an analogy. 

The flock camera could only be an analogy if anyone in the world could
track your movements down to a meter resolution, with no controls on that.
-- 
What people need to know about privacy is complex, so they simplify it.

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#197908

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-09-04 10:28 +0200
Message-ID<o2cqmmxodi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#197903
On 2026-09-03 10:09, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Sep 2026 16:30:15 +0930, Maria Sophia wrote:
> 
>> Those scripts proved I could collect a list of every single access
>> point in Apple's database, just as researchers Eric Rye and Dave
>> Levin did, using a simple perl script which proved the results of
>> their paper, and which went further to prove that my own
>> hidden-broadcast SSIDs were in that database.
> 
> I don’t understand what you’re complaining about, exactly. Your wi-fi
> network broadcasts its existence to all and sundry, and yet you feel
> upset when somebody collects that information and passes it on.

I guess it is because the SSID is terminated in _nomap, which is 
documented as a flag to Apple and others to not store this SSID in their 
maps. But Apple is/was mapping them all the same.

> 
> And hiding SSIDs is a complete waste of time, which gains you nothing
> in security or privacy. Don’t do it.

Yep.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#197909

FromJon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
Date2026-09-04 11:44 +0000
Message-ID<slrn119lbpq.2a0.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
In reply to#197908
On 2026-09-04, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-09-03 10:09, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2026 16:30:15 +0930, Maria Sophia wrote:
>>> Those scripts proved I could collect a list of every single access
>>> point in Apple's database, just as researchers Eric Rye and Dave
>>> Levin did, using a simple perl script which proved the results of
>>> their paper, and which went further to prove that my own
>>> hidden-broadcast SSIDs were in that database.
>> 
>> I don’t understand what you’re complaining about, exactly. Your wi-fi
>> network broadcasts its existence to all and sundry, and yet you feel
>> upset when somebody collects that information and passes it on.
>
> I guess it is because the SSID is terminated in _nomap, which is 
> documented as a flag to Apple and others to not store this SSID in their 
> maps. But Apple is/was mapping them all the same.

I got the impression they were claiming that their SSID was hidden,
which makes it irrelevant as to whether it has "_nomap" at the end
of it, but that Apple had somehow discovered and logged it nonetheless.
It seems highly implausible.

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#197977

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 20:28 +0300
Message-ID<117ms7b$1d4s$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197909
Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>> I don┤ understand what you┴e complaining about, exactly. Your wi-fi
>>> network broadcasts its existence to all and sundry, and yet you feel
>>> upset when somebody collects that information and passes it on.
>>
>> I guess it is because the SSID is terminated in _nomap, which is 
>> documented as a flag to Apple and others to not store this SSID in their 
>> maps. But Apple is/was mapping them all the same.
> 
> I got the impression they were claiming that their SSID was hidden,
> which makes it irrelevant as to whether it has "_nomap" at the end
> of it, but that Apple had somehow discovered and logged it nonetheless.
> It seems highly implausible.

Hi Jon,

I appreciate your intelligence as you got everything right tactically.
You even got the fact of how shocking the truth is, correct!

You said what Apple is doing is, to you, "highly implausible".
I would agree, had I not been horrified to find out Apple is doing it!

The fact Apple is doing it shocked me, which is what started this quest.
At that time, Apple said nothing about whether they're doing it.

But I have letters from Apple lawyers saying they will document it.
And they did.

So... 

It's not only not "highly implausible", but Apple now *says* they do it!
 <https://support.apple.com/en-ie/102515>

That documentation, which I have in my email records dated months before it
was documented, from Apple lawyers, saying that they'd document it, makes
it pretty plausible after all.

The fact Apple documents it, when they didn't document it when I first
brought this to their attention (and to that of the newsgrops), is pretty
good evidence that it's not only NOT "highly implausible" but shockingly
true.

The fact it's true is the shocking part.
Is it not?
-- 
The great thing about Usenet is people work together to help all learn.

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#197981

FromMaria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com>
Date2026-09-07 21:45 +0300
Message-ID<117n0nr$12aj$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to#197908
Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> And hiding SSIDs is a complete waste of time, which gains you nothing
>> in security or privacy. Don�t do it.
> 
> Yep.

There are two fundamental issues which are making this task more difficult:
 1. The common trolls are *desperate* to infest this thread
    (and yet, not a single one of the trolls can possibly add value), 
 2. And, people who are NOT trolls, like Carlos above, still do not
    (yet) understand the topic because they're applying old knowledge.

Anyone who thinks he'll understand this topic who only knows the stone-age
networking basics (which we all know) will *never* understand this topic.

Anyone who says "yep" to that statement, fundamentally doesn't understand 
that hiding the broadcast works for every outfit on the planet we know of.

Except Apple.

When I write a thread, it's about something important most people 
can't even fathom, so it takes intelligence to understand the topic.

None of the common trolls, Hank or Franlin or Wolfan, et al. has the 
intelligence to even begin to understand this topic. 

Yet, these trolls, like Nuno Silva, feel *desperate* to say "something", 
(anything!) because they simply cannot comprehend the topic at hand.

However, some people are intelligent, who, unlike Nuno or Winston or 
Franklin or Hank, et al., have the intelligence to comprehend the topic.

Only the people who possess the minimum intelligence, can add value here.
Not the common trolls like Winston, Slootweg, Nuno Silva, Wolfan, et al.

Carlos, to his credit, is *trying* to bring his level of knowledge out of 
the stone age of networking, which, let's be clear, we all start with that.

But this topic is not from the stone age of networking.
This topic is new.

If people can't follow the trail of the BSSID from the home router to the 
mass surveillance team somewhere in Russia (or at R122 at Fort Mead), then 
they have not understood how *different* things are in the modern day.

Three fundamental modern facts need to be understood before someone, like 
Carlos did above, simply claims "yep" to something completely incorrect.

1. Apple iOS devices see & collect & store & upload BSSID/GPS pairs
   *COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY* than do Google Android devices.

   If you don't know that difference, you know nothing about this topic.
   You're in the stone age of knowledge.

   That isn't bad. It just means you have to seek to understand before
   you say "yep" to obviously incorrect assessments of the situation.

2. Apple stores, vets, culls, and distributes its internal WPS cloud db
   *COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY* than does Google/Mozilla (and others).

   If you don't know that difference, you know nothing about this topic.
   You're in the stone age of knowledge.

   That isn't bad. It just means you have to seek to understand before
   you say "yep" to obviously incorrect assessments of the situation.

If anyone is stuck in the stone age of knowledge level, that's fine, as 
there's nothing wrong with the stone-age knowledge that, oh, say, 
Winston spewed.

But spewing stone-age knowledge does not help when we all know the 
stone-age knowledge of networking.

What would help is if people understood the path of the BSSID/GPS pair.
-- 
When I write a thread, it's about something important most people 
can't even fathom, so it takes intelligence to understand the topic.

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#197983

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-09-07 21:28 +0200
Message-ID<psf3nmxviq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#197981
On 2026-09-07 20:45, Maria Sophia wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> And hiding SSIDs is a complete waste of time, which gains you nothing
>>> in security or privacy. Don�t do it.
>>
>> Yep.
> 
> There are two fundamental issues which are making this task more difficult:
>   1. The common trolls are *desperate* to infest this thread
>      (and yet, not a single one of the trolls can possibly add value),
>   2. And, people who are NOT trolls, like Carlos above, still do not
>      (yet) understand the topic because they're applying old knowledge.
...

The point we are saying is not what you claim it to be. It is not about 
Apple storing and publishing BSSIDs of hidden SSIDs. This is bad 
behaviour by them. Ok. But our point is that you gain nothing by making 
your AP hidden in the first place.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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