Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #81064

Re: GUI toolkit(s) status

Path csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!dedibox.gegeweb.org!gegeweb.eu!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!hq-usenetpeers.eweka.nl!hq-usenetpeers.eweka.nl!bcyclone05.am1.xlned.com!bcyclone05.am1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <rosuav@gmail.com>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.005
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'see.': 0.07; 'tkinter': 0.07; 'app,': 0.09; 'feature,': 0.09; 'framework.': 0.09; 'option,': 0.09; 'scripting': 0.09; 'target,': 0.09; 'tcl/tk': 0.09; 'toolkit': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'gui': 0.12; 'language,': 0.12; '"but': 0.16; 'blessing': 0.16; 'exists,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'make,': 0.16; 'personally,': 0.16; 'pygtk,': 0.16; 'python),': 0.16; 'scratch': 0.16; 'subject:GUI': 0.16; 'tcl': 0.16; "tk's": 0.16; 'tkinter.': 0.16; 'do,': 0.16; 'ignore': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'options.': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'requirement.': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'switch': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'chris': 0.29; 'external': 0.29; 'subject:) ': 0.29; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'cocoa': 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'interface': 0.32; 'another': 0.32; 'quite': 0.32; 'mac': 0.33; 'agree': 0.35; 'knows': 0.35; 'problem.': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'largely': 0.36; "i'll": 0.36; 'so,': 0.37; 'starting': 0.37; 'christian': 0.38; 'apple': 0.38; 'nov': 0.38; 'todo': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'moving': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'remove': 0.60; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'free': 0.61; 'full': 0.61; 'new': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'making': 0.63; 'such': 0.63; 'today': 0.64; 'choose': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'specialized': 0.65; 'worth': 0.66; 'between': 0.67; '20,': 0.68; 'nobody': 0.68; 'day': 0.76; 'manpower': 0.84; 'supporters.': 0.84; 'windowing': 0.84; 'ratio': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; 'choice.': 0.93; 'feet': 0.93
DKIM-Signature v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=CMv3GQI37x8M8Z+X30Yxazfe/oW3uEQf4HC09WQkeoA=; b=VZIfwKy338ZF/7FuYujGNzFLP6I3oC9hpc1rMj9SjFWp7Bmo8Ji6iZQSShSde2w698 9jLUiA9B6lXSpsCDllRodWQZnuWyI839U/S6Vksmoalx4e7zwZCz+DBvOSAuSCUbabZv suf3rBYFhunVk74fp6jwXokQsbySa+OCymclFhg6Pyvw6KNPpEAxDZUZmVk3J0pP1Lq0 nbq2Vu3rtgR75JRG8v5dVRIgk7vl6oyMqM8wHXlAKF0wU8BvdC6Bir9Ra0NeDhcSv2I5 ztxS0Wj1UA/WYhL7iaoNQSqiI4Z0V0W52CvJVCrd0feKCuFWDV1WFSpAEsY65tDH+eol lPaA==
MIME-Version 1.0
X-Received by 10.107.16.88 with SMTP id y85mr41773ioi.56.1416475048106; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:17:28 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To <m4kaqg$p62$1@dont-email.me>
References <5da0e7df-fd85-42b8-abfd-4db0dd9ff519@googlegroups.com> <7xwq6qgty4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.16008.1416472839.18130.python-list@python.org> <m4kaqg$p62$1@dont-email.me>
Date Thu, 20 Nov 2014 20:17:28 +1100
Subject Re: GUI toolkit(s) status
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Cc "python-list@python.org" <python-list@python.org>
Content-Type text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.15
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.16009.1416475050.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 43
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1416475050 news.xs4all.nl 2884 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54468
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
X-Received-Body-CRC 3710425975
X-Received-Bytes 6556
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:81064

Show key headers only | View raw

On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 20.11.14 09:40, schrieb Chris Angelico:
>>
>> Ignore jmf.
>
>
> He is trolling, but in this point he is right, unfortunately: neither Tcl
> nor Tk support Unicode outside the BMP. Full Unicode support is a big todo
> item on the wishlist for Tcl 9, for Tk nobody really knows. We are lacking
> manpower and people with specialized knowledge. Apple is a moving target,
> they pulled the rug from under Tk's feet twice over the past 10 years.
> Nobody knows if Tk will continue to exist on the mac if Cocoa is withdrawn
> some day and replaced by a new and completely different windowing framework.
> Python has largely replaced Tcl as the first-choice scripting language, and
> that also does not help to attract people working on Tcl/Tk.

This is what happens when someone spends most of his time trolling.
When the signal-to-noise ratio is sufficiently low, it's just not
worth reading his posts. And even when he does have a decent point to
make, he couches it in such exaggerated language that it's hard to
take him seriously.

But I agree about the issues with tkinter. So, let's see. Shall we
wait for Tcl/Tk Unicode support? Recommend people switch to PyGTK? To
PyQt? To wxPython? To something else? Personally, I'm quite happy with
GTK2 (though that's with Pike, not Python), and it does have full
Unicode support; but there are some issues with the interface that
make it feel a bit clunky. Every other windowing toolkit has its own
flaws. Even if one of them were to be blessed into the stdlib (which
would remove the whole "but it's an external dependency" problem),
there's still no perfect option, and every toolkit will have its
staunch supporters.

If Python were starting from scratch today with the first-ever stdlib
GUI toolkit, as a Python 3 feature, I would expect that full Unicode
support be a hard requirement. But since tkinter already exists,
there's no point stripping it out, and blessing another one means
making a choice. I don't see there's enough to choose between the top
three or four options. If I'm going to build a Python GUI app, I'll
probably use PyGTK, and if you do, you're free to use PyQt. I don't
think this is a problem.

ChrisA

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-19 23:59 -0800
  Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-11-20 00:25 -0800
    Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-20 19:40 +1100
      Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2014-11-20 10:04 +0100
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-20 20:17 +1100
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-11-20 23:34 -0500
          Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-11-20 20:49 -0800
            Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2014-11-21 08:57 +0100
          Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-11-21 09:13 -0500
            Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 00:59 -0800
              Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-11-22 12:40 -0500
                Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 10:49 -0800
          Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-21 12:38 -0800
            Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-21 12:49 -0800
          Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 10:33 -0800
            Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2014-11-22 20:34 +0100
              Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-24 11:24 -0800
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-11-21 09:05 -0500
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-21 12:15 -0800
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 21:07 -0700
          Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Dave Cook <davecook@nowhere.net> - 2014-11-26 09:40 +0000
            Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Mark Summerfield <list@qtrac.plus.com> - 2014-11-26 03:47 -0800
              Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-26 06:36 -0800
                Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-26 07:11 -0800
            Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-11-26 20:19 -0700
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 00:12 -0800
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 02:46 -0800
        Re: GUI toolkit(s) status Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-24 08:18 -0700

csiph-web