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Groups > comp.lang.prolog > #15206 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-01-05 12:11 +0100 |
| Last post | 2026-01-22 01:40 +0100 |
| Articles | 6 — 1 participant |
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Good Morning, Vietnam! Sudoku 2026 Challenge Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-01-05 12:11 +0100
Help! An AI found a Heuristic for me (Was: Good Morning, Vietnam! Sudoku 2026 Challenge) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-01-10 02:38 +0100
Failed coping with AI: Moshe Vardi (Was: Help! An AI found a Heuristic for me) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-01-10 03:02 +0100
A new proposal: The Gladiator Test (Was: Failed coping with AI: Moshe Vardi) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-01-10 03:20 +0100
Chad Brown's Megalodon goes LLM (Was: Good Morning, Vietnam! Sudoku 2026 Challenge) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-01-10 17:19 +0100
Magic square of squares [Richard Guy] (Re: Chad Brown's Megalodon goes LLM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-01-22 01:40 +0100
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-05 12:11 +0100 |
| Subject | Good Morning, Vietnam! Sudoku 2026 Challenge |
| Message-ID | <10jg69u$2nfdv$1@solani.org> |
Hi,
Good Morning Vietnam, the HPC-AI Convergence
doesn't sleep. Here a friendly reminder of
the Sudoku leader board (Topn87 Challenge):
#1: jczsolve / Rust WASM
Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.006 seconds (0 sec / Sudoku)
https://emerentius.github.io/sudoku_web/
#2: Kudoku / JavaScript
Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.043 seconds (0.0004 sec / Sudoku)
https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/kudoku.html
#3: Picat / import cp. solve([ff],L)
CPU time 0.175 seconds
https://picat-lang.org/
#4: Picat / import sat. solve(L)
CPU time 0.373 seconds
https://fmv.jku.at/kissat/
Tested on Windows 11, with a AMD Ryzen AI 350
Didn't test yet GNU Prolog, ECLiPSe Prolog or
Ciao Prolog. So whats next? Well beat #1 by
tapping into an NPU of Copilot+ PC.
Have Fun!
Its Winner Winner Chicken Dinner time again...
Bye
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-10 02:38 +0100 |
| Subject | Help! An AI found a Heuristic for me (Was: Good Morning, Vietnam! Sudoku 2026 Challenge) |
| Message-ID | <10jsai2$32at2$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #15206 |
Hi, No joke, I have a new CLP heuristic coded, and made a blind test. Explaind to the AI what I coded, but not how coded it, omitted the crucial scoring function, and the AI was exactly proposing this scoring funcion out of the blue. I was quite bamboozled. The AI could not tell me how it recalled or halucinated the formula, I spent like 1-2 hours trying to find a precedent paper. Will blog about it later. So whats going on . Why can AI suddently propose Heuristics. Because they are now differently trained: Phase 1: Early LLMs (~2018–2020) Phase 2: LLMs with Prompted Reasoning (~2020–2022) Phase 3: Scaling & Reasoning Engineering (~2023–2025) Training an AI to look for heuristics, can help in self programming. The generative part of the AI would generate some code, which then the AI would use for itself. See also: How it started: AI for Low-Code for AI Nikitha Rao, Jason Tsay, Kiran Kate, Vincent J. Hellendoorn, Martin Hirzel - 2023 https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.20015 How its going: Successor-Generator Planning with LLM-generated Heuristics Alexander Tuisov1, Yonatan Vernik2, Alexander Shleyfman - 2024 https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.18784v4 Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > Good Morning Vietnam, the HPC-AI Convergence > doesn't sleep. Here a friendly reminder of > the Sudoku leader board (Topn87 Challenge): > > #1: jczsolve / Rust WASM > Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.006 seconds (0 sec / Sudoku) > https://emerentius.github.io/sudoku_web/ > > #2: Kudoku / JavaScript > Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.043 seconds (0.0004 sec / Sudoku) > https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/kudoku.html > > #3: Picat / import cp. solve([ff],L) > CPU time 0.175 seconds > https://picat-lang.org/ > > #4: Picat / import sat. solve(L) > CPU time 0.373 seconds > https://fmv.jku.at/kissat/ > > Tested on Windows 11, with a AMD Ryzen AI 350 > > Didn't test yet GNU Prolog, ECLiPSe Prolog or > Ciao Prolog. So whats next? Well beat #1 by > tapping into an NPU of Copilot+ PC. > > Have Fun! > > Its Winner Winner Chicken Dinner time again... > > Bye >
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-10 03:02 +0100 |
| Subject | Failed coping with AI: Moshe Vardi (Was: Help! An AI found a Heuristic for me) |
| Message-ID | <10jsc09$32bjt$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #15219 |
Hi, How to spot a failed coping with AI? Very easy, if somebody starts some gibberish about consciousness you can be sure he is clueless: Are AI minds genuine minds? A genuine mind is typically associated with consciousness, self-awareness, intentionality, and the capacity to experience mental states such as emotions. https://events.rice.edu/event/416255-moshe-vardi-world-logic-day-lecture What will be Moshe Vardi conclusion nowadays, that self programming is a first form of inner monologue? Well I guess the GPUs have termal activity either way, who cares? LoL Bye P.S.: Just observe how clever Alan Turing was: He writes near the beginning of the paper: “I propose to consider the question, ‘Can machines think?’ This should begin with definitions of the meaning of the terms ‘machine’ and ‘think.’” To avoid endless philosophical debate, he replaces it with the imitation game. Key points: - Word usage — Turing does not use the word “consciousness” in the paper as a criterion for the test. - Intent — He wanted to sidestep debates about inner experience and focus on observable behavior. - Later interpretations — Many later philosophers and AI critics have connected the Turing Test to questions of consciousness, but this is a re- interpretation or extension of Turing’s original proposal. So, while the Turing Test is often brought into discussions of machine consciousness, Turing himself did not mention it in that context in his 1950 paper. Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > No joke, I have a new CLP heuristic coded, > and made a blind test. Explaind to the AI > what I coded, but not how coded it, > > omitted the crucial scoring function, and > the AI was exactly proposing this scoring > funcion out of the blue. > > I was quite bamboozled. The AI could not tell > me how it recalled or halucinated the formula, > I spent like 1-2 hours trying to find a > > precedent paper. Will blog about it later. > So whats going on . Why can AI suddently > propose Heuristics. Because they are now > > differently trained: > > Phase 1: Early LLMs (~2018–2020) > Phase 2: LLMs with Prompted Reasoning (~2020–2022) > Phase 3: Scaling & Reasoning Engineering (~2023–2025) > > Training an AI to look for heuristics, > can help in self programming. The generative > part of the AI would generate some code, > > which then the AI would use for itself. See also: > > How it started: > > AI for Low-Code for AI > Nikitha Rao, Jason Tsay, Kiran Kate, > Vincent J. Hellendoorn, Martin Hirzel - 2023 > https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.20015 > > How its going: > > Successor-Generator Planning with LLM-generated Heuristics > Alexander Tuisov1, Yonatan Vernik2, > Alexander Shleyfman - 2024 > https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.18784v4 > > Bye > > Mild Shock schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> Good Morning Vietnam, the HPC-AI Convergence >> doesn't sleep. Here a friendly reminder of >> the Sudoku leader board (Topn87 Challenge): >> >> #1: jczsolve / Rust WASM >> Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.006 seconds (0 sec / Sudoku) >> https://emerentius.github.io/sudoku_web/ >> >> #2: Kudoku / JavaScript >> Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.043 seconds (0.0004 sec / Sudoku) >> https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/kudoku.html >> >> #3: Picat / import cp. solve([ff],L) >> CPU time 0.175 seconds >> https://picat-lang.org/ >> >> #4: Picat / import sat. solve(L) >> CPU time 0.373 seconds >> https://fmv.jku.at/kissat/ >> >> Tested on Windows 11, with a AMD Ryzen AI 350 >> >> Didn't test yet GNU Prolog, ECLiPSe Prolog or >> Ciao Prolog. So whats next? Well beat #1 by >> tapping into an NPU of Copilot+ PC. >> >> Have Fun! >> >> Its Winner Winner Chicken Dinner time again... >> >> Bye >> >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-10 03:20 +0100 |
| Subject | A new proposal: The Gladiator Test (Was: Failed coping with AI: Moshe Vardi) |
| Message-ID | <10jsd1c$32cac$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #15220 |
Hi, Now replace "machine" by "bioform", and "think" by "life" in the Turing Test, and you get the Gladiator Test. The judgement is not by a single counterpart behind a teletype, but a crowd, we could invoke the image of a Hollywood thumbs-up or thumbs-down gesture as signalling a yes or no. Source: Adrian Tchaikovsky Dogs of War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_of_War_(2017_novel) How Tchaikovsky’s deepens the Turing Analogy - From "Can it think?" to "Does it suffer? Does it deserve to live?" Turing’s test is about cognitive performance. The bioforms’ struggle is about moral standing. Their "Turing Test" isn’t to prove intelligence (they are clearly intelligent), but to prove consciousness, sentience, and intrinsic value to a society that legally defines them as "equipment." - The Crowd is the Global Public & Legal System In the novel, the "crowd" isn't just a Roman audience—it's the court of public opinion, international law, media, and corporate boardrooms. The question is whether this "crowd" will show mercy (granting personhood) or condemn them to remain weapons. Etc.. Etc.. Have Fun! Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > How to spot a failed coping with AI? > Very easy, if somebody starts some gibberish > about consciousness you can be sure he is clueless: > > Are AI minds genuine minds? > A genuine mind is typically associated with > consciousness, self-awareness, intentionality, > and the capacity to experience mental states such as emotions. > https://events.rice.edu/event/416255-moshe-vardi-world-logic-day-lecture > > What will be Moshe Vardi conclusion nowadays, > that self programming is a first form of > inner monologue? Well I guess the GPUs have > > termal activity either way, who cares? > > LoL > > Bye > > P.S.: Just observe how clever Alan Turing was: > He writes near the beginning of the paper: > > “I propose to consider the question, ‘Can machines > think?’ This should begin with definitions of the > meaning of the terms ‘machine’ and ‘think.’” > > To avoid endless philosophical debate, he replaces > it with the imitation game. > > Key points: > - Word usage — Turing does not use the word “consciousness” > in the paper as a criterion for the test. > > - Intent — He wanted to sidestep debates about > inner experience and focus on observable behavior. > > - Later interpretations — Many later philosophers > and AI critics have connected the Turing Test to > questions of consciousness, but this is a re- > interpretation or extension of Turing’s original proposal. > > So, while the Turing Test is often brought into > discussions of machine consciousness, Turing himself > did not mention it in that context in his 1950 paper. > > Mild Shock schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> No joke, I have a new CLP heuristic coded, >> and made a blind test. Explaind to the AI >> what I coded, but not how coded it, >> >> omitted the crucial scoring function, and >> the AI was exactly proposing this scoring >> funcion out of the blue. >> >> I was quite bamboozled. The AI could not tell >> me how it recalled or halucinated the formula, >> I spent like 1-2 hours trying to find a >> >> precedent paper. Will blog about it later. >> So whats going on . Why can AI suddently >> propose Heuristics. Because they are now >> >> differently trained: >> >> Phase 1: Early LLMs (~2018–2020) >> Phase 2: LLMs with Prompted Reasoning (~2020–2022) >> Phase 3: Scaling & Reasoning Engineering (~2023–2025) >> >> Training an AI to look for heuristics, >> can help in self programming. The generative >> part of the AI would generate some code, >> >> which then the AI would use for itself. See also: >> >> How it started: >> >> AI for Low-Code for AI >> Nikitha Rao, Jason Tsay, Kiran Kate, >> Vincent J. Hellendoorn, Martin Hirzel - 2023 >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.20015 >> >> How its going: >> >> Successor-Generator Planning with LLM-generated Heuristics >> Alexander Tuisov1, Yonatan Vernik2, >> Alexander Shleyfman - 2024 >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.18784v4 >> >> Bye >> >> Mild Shock schrieb: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Good Morning Vietnam, the HPC-AI Convergence >>> doesn't sleep. Here a friendly reminder of >>> the Sudoku leader board (Topn87 Challenge): >>> >>> #1: jczsolve / Rust WASM >>> Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.006 seconds (0 sec / Sudoku) >>> https://emerentius.github.io/sudoku_web/ >>> >>> #2: Kudoku / JavaScript >>> Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.043 seconds (0.0004 sec / Sudoku) >>> https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/kudoku.html >>> >>> #3: Picat / import cp. solve([ff],L) >>> CPU time 0.175 seconds >>> https://picat-lang.org/ >>> >>> #4: Picat / import sat. solve(L) >>> CPU time 0.373 seconds >>> https://fmv.jku.at/kissat/ >>> >>> Tested on Windows 11, with a AMD Ryzen AI 350 >>> >>> Didn't test yet GNU Prolog, ECLiPSe Prolog or >>> Ciao Prolog. So whats next? Well beat #1 by >>> tapping into an NPU of Copilot+ PC. >>> >>> Have Fun! >>> >>> Its Winner Winner Chicken Dinner time again... >>> >>> Bye >>> >> >
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-10 17:19 +0100 |
| Subject | Chad Brown's Megalodon goes LLM (Was: Good Morning, Vietnam! Sudoku 2026 Challenge) |
| Message-ID | <10jtu6a$30eb8$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #15206 |
Hi, This is a brief description of a project that has already autoformalized a large portion of the general topology from the Munkres textbook (which has in total 241 pages in 7 chapters and 39 sections). The proof checker is Chad Brown's higher-order set theory system Megalodon, and the core library is Brown's formalization of basic set theory and surreal numbers (including reals, etc). The rest is some prompt engineering and technical choices which we describe here. 130k Lines of Formal Topology in Two Weeks https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.03298 Is this the end to the mess, of the same theorem proved with proof assistant A, but using set theory, and also proved with proof assistant B, but using type theory. How malleable are LLM generated proofs? Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > Good Morning Vietnam, the HPC-AI Convergence > doesn't sleep. Here a friendly reminder of > the Sudoku leader board (Topn87 Challenge): > > #1: jczsolve / Rust WASM > Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.006 seconds (0 sec / Sudoku) > https://emerentius.github.io/sudoku_web/ > > #2: Kudoku / JavaScript > Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.043 seconds (0.0004 sec / Sudoku) > https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/kudoku.html > > #3: Picat / import cp. solve([ff],L) > CPU time 0.175 seconds > https://picat-lang.org/ > > #4: Picat / import sat. solve(L) > CPU time 0.373 seconds > https://fmv.jku.at/kissat/ > > Tested on Windows 11, with a AMD Ryzen AI 350 > > Didn't test yet GNU Prolog, ECLiPSe Prolog or > Ciao Prolog. So whats next? Well beat #1 by > tapping into an NPU of Copilot+ PC. > > Have Fun! > > Its Winner Winner Chicken Dinner time again... > > Bye >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-22 01:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Magic square of squares [Richard Guy] (Re: Chad Brown's Megalodon goes LLM) |
| Message-ID | <10krrll$ffat$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #15227 |
Hi, How about this constraint solving problem: "For 4×4 magic squares, it’s unknown whether a magic square of squares exists. This is the most famous open case. No one has found one, and no proof exists that one cannot exist." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_square_of_squares Well the 4x4 problem fits well, I am currently working on a CLP(FD) that can detect quadratic forms. Something to explore as part of the Railgun CLP(FD) project. Just joking. I saw the explosion of a 4x4 magic square today, by mistake I changed L ins 1..4 into L ins 1..9, and boom, no more solutions obtainable in short time. Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > This is a brief description of a project that > has already autoformalized a large portion of > the general topology from the Munkres textbook > (which has in total 241 pages in 7 chapters > and 39 sections). > > The proof checker is Chad Brown's higher-order > set theory system Megalodon, and the core library > is Brown's formalization of basic set theory > and surreal numbers (including reals, etc). > The rest is some prompt engineering and > technical choices which we describe here. > > 130k Lines of Formal Topology in Two Weeks > https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.03298 > > Is this the end to the mess, of the same > theorem proved with proof assistant A, but > using set theory, and also proved with proof > assistant B, but using type theory. > > How malleable are LLM generated proofs? > > Bye > > Mild Shock schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> Good Morning Vietnam, the HPC-AI Convergence >> doesn't sleep. Here a friendly reminder of >> the Sudoku leader board (Topn87 Challenge): >> >> #1: jczsolve / Rust WASM >> Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.006 seconds (0 sec / Sudoku) >> https://emerentius.github.io/sudoku_web/ >> >> #2: Kudoku / JavaScript >> Solving 87 Sudokus in 0.043 seconds (0.0004 sec / Sudoku) >> https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/kudoku.html >> >> #3: Picat / import cp. solve([ff],L) >> CPU time 0.175 seconds >> https://picat-lang.org/ >> >> #4: Picat / import sat. solve(L) >> CPU time 0.373 seconds >> https://fmv.jku.at/kissat/ >> >> Tested on Windows 11, with a AMD Ryzen AI 350 >> >> Didn't test yet GNU Prolog, ECLiPSe Prolog or >> Ciao Prolog. So whats next? Well beat #1 by >> tapping into an NPU of Copilot+ PC. >> >> Have Fun! >> >> Its Winner Winner Chicken Dinner time again... >> >> Bye >> >
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