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Re: Can we trust the Scryer Prolog Gurus? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… )

From Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups comp.lang.prolog
Subject Re: Can we trust the Scryer Prolog Gurus? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… )
Date 2024-07-23 00:42 +0200
Message-ID <v7mn93$72fa$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References <v32hjd$s3qh$1@solani.org> <v7mmbj$71vr$1@solani.org> <v7mmi0$725n$1@solani.org>

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Well I am mistaken, Prolog 0 must have had some
concept of error. For example I find:

3. OPERATION SUR LES NOMBRES
=============================
LES PREDICATS SONT EVALUES A ERROR

And this is also used in a code_type variant, i.e.
CHIFFRE and LETTRE, follow the instantiation error
idea. But we have this also in Prolog systems today:

/* SWI-Prolog */
?- code_type(0'a, X).
X = alnum .

?- code_type(X, X).
ERROR: Arguments are not sufficiently instantiated

It is not the case that modern Prolog systems always
silently fail. They silently fail in atom/1, integer/1, etc..
which makes sense, especially from a WAM implementation

viewpoint, since WAM has usually type tag branching or
switching instructions. So these atom/1, integer/1, etc.. can
be implemented quite efficiently and one should view them

as belonging to the same category as var/1, (==)/2, etc..
i.e. meta predicates that deal syntactically with Prolog terms.
Some Prolog system can even perform indexing on these guards.

Mild Shock schrieb:
> That the DEC 10 Prolog 1975 is close to Prolog 0,
> can be verified by reading the Prolog 0 manual:
> 
> MANUEL DE REFE RE NeE ET D'UTILISATION - PROLOG
> ROUSSEL Ph. (1975)
> http://alain.colmerauer.free.fr/alcol/ArchivesPublications/ManuelProlog/Pr.pdf 
> 
> 
> So at that same year there was already an
> English rip-off. If I read the french, I also
> don't find some atom/1, integer/1 equivalent
> 
> that would throw an instantiation error. Problem
> is again, what would have been an exception in Prolog 0?
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> For example one Guru claimed?
>>
>>  > Prolog were invented today, I think there would
>>  > be at least two significant differences:
>>  >
>>  > First, the type-testing predicates like atom/1,
>>  > integer/1 and compound/1 would (and should) throw
>>  > instantiation errors if their arguments are not
>>  > sufficiently instantiated.
>>  >
>>  > This is also what the original versions of Prolog
>>  > did. However, DEC 10 Prolog chose to replace instantiation
>>  > errors by silent failures, and this has been
>>  > perpetuated in the Edinburgh tradition for type tests
>>  > including the ISO standard.
>> https://www.quora.com/If-prolog-were-being-invented-today-with-no-concern-for-backward-compatibility-or-the-existing-standardization-how-would-it-differ-from-standard-prolog 
>>
>>
>> I cannot verify any of the above nonsense.
>>
>> First of all the term "DEC-10 Prolog" is ambigious:
>>
>> DEC 10 Prolog 1975
>> https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/prolog/prolog/edinburgh/doc/Warren-Epilog_400_400-1975.pdf 
>>
>>
>> DEC 10 Prolog 1982
>> https://userweb.fct.unl.pt/~lmp/publications/online-papers/DECsystem-10%20PROLOG%20USER%27S%20MANUAL.pdf 
>>
>>
>> The DEC 10 Prolog 1975 looks very close to Prolog 0
>> with its french predicate names. There is not a simgle
>> atom/1, integer/1 equivalent that would throw an
>>
>> instantiation error. Actually Prolog 0 didn't even
>> have some sort of exceptions, right?
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Especially since good old FORTRAN has
>>> made a new appearance:
>>>
>>> TIOBE Index for May 2024
>>> I have received a lot of questions why Fortran entered the top 10
>>> again after more than 20 years. The TIOBE index just publishes
>>> what has been measured.
>>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
>>>
>>> Why Fortran is back in TIOBE’s top 10
>>> First, Fortran is especially good at numerical analysis and
>>> computational mathematics. Numerical and mathematical
>>> computing is growing because interest in artificial intelligence
>>> is growing, Jansen told TechRepublic in an email.
>>> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/tiobe-index-may-2024/
>>
> 

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Thread

A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-27 19:58 +0200
  Re: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-05-27 20:01 +0200
  Scryer Prolog is dead now? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-20 11:35 +0200
    What about the Holy Grail? (Was: Scryer Prolog is dead now?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-21 17:29 +0200
      Is Rust the culprit? (Was: What about the Holy Grail?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-22 22:16 +0200
        Re: Is Rust the culprit? (Was: What about the Holy Grail?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-22 22:26 +0200
          Re: Is Rust the culprit? (Was: What about the Holy Grail?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-22 22:38 +0200
        Night Train to Lisbon (Re: Is Rust the culprit?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-10-18 01:35 +0200
          Prolog System running on JS/Bun ? (Was: Night Train to Lisbon) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-20 14:20 +0100
        Highly bred Hackers: Wallowing in enlightenment (Was: Is Rust the culprit?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-10-26 17:43 +0200
          Good Bye Stack-Overflow (Was: Highly bred Hackers: Wallowing in enlightenment) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 03:16 +0100
            Re: Good Bye Stack-Overflow (Was: Highly bred Hackers: Wallowing in enlightenment) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 03:24 +0100
              Re: Good Bye Stack-Overflow (Was: Highly bred Hackers: Wallowing in enlightenment) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 03:28 +0100
                Re: Good Bye Stack-Overflow (Was: Highly bred Hackers: Wallowing in enlightenment) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 03:54 +0100
            they shoot themselves into the foot (Re: Good Bye Stack-Overflow) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 16:47 +0100
              Re: they shoot themselves into the foot (Re: Good Bye Stack-Overflow) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 17:00 +0100
                Re: they shoot themselves into the foot (Re: Good Bye Stack-Overflow) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 17:11 +0100
                Re: they shoot themselves into the foot (Re: Good Bye Stack-Overflow) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-15 18:00 +0100
  Can we trust the Scryer Prolog Gurus? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 00:27 +0200
    Re: Can we trust the Scryer Prolog Gurus? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 00:30 +0200
      Re: Can we trust the Scryer Prolog Gurus? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 00:42 +0200
  The longest pregnancy in the history of Prolog ~~> DCGs (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 09:51 +0200
    Re: The longest pregnancy in the history of Prolog ~~> DCGs (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 09:52 +0200
      Re: The longest pregnancy in the history of Prolog ~~> DCGs (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 10:18 +0200
        Re: The longest pregnancy in the history of Prolog ~~> DCGs (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 10:20 +0200
          Re: The longest pregnancy in the history of Prolog ~~> DCGs (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 16:38 +0200
  Is Scryer Prolog the Air Guitar of Prolog? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 21:56 +0200
    Re: Is Scryer Prolog the Air Guitar of Prolog? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-23 23:49 +0200
      Re: Is Scryer Prolog the Air Guitar of Prolog? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now…) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-24 22:21 +0200
  Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-26 15:38 +0200
    Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-26 15:41 +0200
      Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-27 11:27 +0200
        Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-27 11:36 +0200
          Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-27 11:52 +0200
            Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-27 11:56 +0200
              Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-27 12:04 +0200
                Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-27 12:09 +0200
                Re: Did Lifeware Kill Scryer Prolog CLP(Z) ? (Was: A harsh wind is blowing into the face of Prolog now… [FORTRAN / TIOBE Index for May 2024]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-07-27 12:54 +0200

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