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Groups > comp.lang.php > #12349 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-12-22 11:05 -0800 |
| Last post | 2014-01-03 15:43 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 93 — 19 participants |
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ORMs comparisons/complaints. Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-12-22 11:05 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 14:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 15:17 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 15:38 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 15:47 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 16:04 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 16:09 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 16:20 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 16:34 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-23 12:54 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-12-22 20:48 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-23 07:58 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-23 17:38 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-23 07:57 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-24 10:11 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-23 19:59 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-24 12:14 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:02 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 15:40 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-24 12:28 +0100
c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-24 08:49 -0500
Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 09:35 +1100
Re: c Graham Hobbs <ghobbs@cdpwise.net> - 2013-12-24 19:35 -0500
Re: c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-25 00:08 -0500
Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 20:41 +1100
[EOD] Re: c Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-25 11:15 +0100
Re: [EOD] Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 23:29 +1100
Re: [EOD] Re: c The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-25 12:48 +0000
Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 17:46 +1100
Re: c Graham Hobbs <ghobbs@cdpwise.net> - 2013-12-25 09:24 -0500
Re: c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 22:51 -0500
Re: c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 08:03 -0500
Re: c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 12:40 -0500
Re: c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 12:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 22:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 14:54 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:06 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 15:21 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 08:04 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 12:32 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 12:47 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 08:23 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2013-12-30 19:45 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Ricardo Palomaes <rpmdisguise-java@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 19:20 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-30 18:34 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 14:27 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Marcel Müller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2013-12-22 22:26 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:17 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2013-12-22 16:11 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:08 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-30 17:36 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-30 22:13 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-30 22:09 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-31 11:30 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-31 08:11 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-01 14:20 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 22:05 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 14:48 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 21:57 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-02 04:04 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 21:54 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-02 04:09 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 20:54 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 09:18 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 16:45 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-23 13:25 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:27 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-30 14:38 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-12-30 09:36 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-31 01:26 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 22:23 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 22:19 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-01-02 12:36 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2014-01-02 09:36 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-01-02 21:06 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-03 14:48 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 20:59 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 21:07 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 21:10 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-31 09:44 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2013-12-23 07:22 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:20 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-25 13:56 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2013-12-31 10:52 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2013-12-31 11:50 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-31 17:54 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2013-12-31 19:33 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-02 17:37 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 21:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2014-01-02 19:34 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 20:43 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2014-01-03 20:19 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 15:43 -0500
Page 2 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next page →
| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-24 08:49 -0500 |
| Subject | c |
| Message-ID | <l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #12370 |
On 12/24/2013 6:28 AM, the well known TROLL Wanja Gayk wrote: > In article <l98av6$stk$1@dont-email.me>, Jerry Stuckle > (jstucklex@attglobal.net) says... > >> We have a good group here. Don't ruin it by making off-topic posts. > > So if you'll stop ruining other newsgroups with off-topic posts and full > quotes, we'd be grateful. > > This was about ORM-mapping in general and intentionally mentioned "non- > Java ORM" - with the PHP newsgroup included, I hope you're able to count > add 1 and 1 together and comprehend that this means PHP people were > asked their opinion. Your "The author didnt' ask a PHP-Question" thread- > takeover is off topic and I'd be grateful if you stopped this bullshit > now and forever, thanks. > > F'up set to the newsgroup where you belong, scorefile adjusted, thank > you. > > > Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. But let me see if I can make this so simple even a TROLL can understand it (probably not - TROLLS are too dense to understand much of anything). This is for questions about the PHP LANGUAGE, not PHP PRODUCTS. See the charter for this newsgroup. So stop the bullshit, TROLL. And fupped back to the TROLL newsgroup, where you belong. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 09:35 +1100 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <gv2dnR8Es8rNkSfPnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #12371 |
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... > Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a > newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty > normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free > email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I > understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. So let me get it straight then Jez: 1. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. 2. You own c.l.p and you alone decides who posts there and what topics are acceptable. 3. Anyone who uses Gmail or "free" email services is hiding something and is a troll. 4. Anyone who chooses not to use their real name is hiding something and is a troll. 5. You have no issue deciding where follow-ups should go because you know best and you are more important than anyone else. So have I got all that right? Anything else? Here's something you need to understand yourself: YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. Just because *you* think something is OT or you don't like their nick or the fact that they use Gmail does not give you the right to evict them from *your* newsgroup. The net is FREE as in free-speech and in that there are no "newsgroup cops" or whatever the hell you think you are. Of course you are also FREE to express your *opinion*, but you do not in any way, shape or form have any right to decide who posts or what is posted. Why? Because... YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. May I remind you that this all started because I called you out on your narcissist complex and troll-ish behaviour where you attempted to force the entire thread into a newsgroup that *you* deemed more appropriate. Where do you get off doing that? As I said a while ago, just post your certificate of ownership of c.l.p and all this can be put to bed. Don't have one? Then stop it behaving as though you do. BTW: YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | Graham Hobbs <ghobbs@cdpwise.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-24 19:35 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <j1akb9d0q74ruod75e30fca2f9ronqpqo7@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #12375 |
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:35:45 +1100, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> wrote: >"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... > >> Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a >> newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty >> normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free >> email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I >> understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. > >So let me get it straight then Jez: > >1. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. >2. You own c.l.p and you alone decides who posts there and what topics are >acceptable. >3. Anyone who uses Gmail or "free" email services is hiding something and is >a troll. >4. Anyone who chooses not to use their real name is hiding something and is >a troll. >5. You have no issue deciding where follow-ups should go because you know >best and you are more important than anyone else. > >So have I got all that right? Anything else? > >Here's something you need to understand yourself: > >YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. > >Just because *you* think something is OT or you don't like their nick or the >fact that they use Gmail does not give you the right to evict them from >*your* newsgroup. The net is FREE as in free-speech and in that there are >no "newsgroup cops" or whatever the hell you think you are. > >Of course you are also FREE to express your *opinion*, but you do not in any >way, shape or form have any right to decide who posts or what is posted. > >Why? Because... > >YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. > >May I remind you that this all started because I called you out on your >narcissist complex and troll-ish behaviour where you attempted to force the >entire thread into a newsgroup that *you* deemed more appropriate. Where do >you get off doing that? > >As I said a while ago, just post your certificate of ownership of c.l.p and >all this can be put to bed. Don't have one? Then stop it behaving as >though you do. > >BTW: > >YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. --- Hello qu0ll, Just browsing a couple of c.l.p threads I find the likes of Michael Vilain, Jerry Stuckle, Christof Michael Becker, Denis McMahon, Tim Streater, others .. you are simply 'Queue you zero el el'. Is there a reason you don't use your real name? Graham Hobbs
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 00:08 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <l9dp7m$4bm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #12376 |
On 12/24/2013 7:35 PM, Graham Hobbs wrote: > On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:35:45 +1100, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... >> >>> Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a >>> newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty >>> normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free >>> email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I >>> understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. >> >> So let me get it straight then Jez: >> >> 1. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. >> 2. You own c.l.p and you alone decides who posts there and what topics are >> acceptable. >> 3. Anyone who uses Gmail or "free" email services is hiding something and is >> a troll. >> 4. Anyone who chooses not to use their real name is hiding something and is >> a troll. >> 5. You have no issue deciding where follow-ups should go because you know >> best and you are more important than anyone else. >> >> So have I got all that right? Anything else? >> >> Here's something you need to understand yourself: >> >> YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. >> >> Just because *you* think something is OT or you don't like their nick or the >> fact that they use Gmail does not give you the right to evict them from >> *your* newsgroup. The net is FREE as in free-speech and in that there are >> no "newsgroup cops" or whatever the hell you think you are. >> >> Of course you are also FREE to express your *opinion*, but you do not in any >> way, shape or form have any right to decide who posts or what is posted. >> >> Why? Because... >> >> YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. >> >> May I remind you that this all started because I called you out on your >> narcissist complex and troll-ish behaviour where you attempted to force the >> entire thread into a newsgroup that *you* deemed more appropriate. Where do >> you get off doing that? >> >> As I said a while ago, just post your certificate of ownership of c.l.p and >> all this can be put to bed. Don't have one? Then stop it behaving as >> though you do. >> >> BTW: >> >> YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. > --- > Hello qu0ll, > > Just browsing a couple of c.l.p threads I find the likes of Michael > Vilain, Jerry Stuckle, Christof Michael Becker, Denis McMahon, Tim > Streater, others .. you are simply 'Queue you zero el el'. > > Is there a reason you don't use your real name? > > Graham Hobbs > Graham, haven't you learned by now? Trolls NEVER use their real names. They're too chicken to let anyone know who they really are. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 20:41 +1100 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <7YWdnVHsrJM_NSfPnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #12377 |
"lipska the kat" wrote in message news:tsSdnflq-emnPSfPnZ2dnUVZ7tOdnZ2d@bt.com... >>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... >>> >>>> Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a >>>> newsgroup he never has even looked at. > > <snip> > >> Graham, haven't you learned by now? Trolls NEVER use their real names. > > They're too chicken to let anyone know who they really are. >> > > This is absolute nonsense. > > I have no idea who Qu0ll is, I don't even know if we have disagreed in the > past, however, given her/his/its past contribution to this group he/she/it > is certainly not a troll. > > The one doing the trolling here is you "Jerry Stuckle" ... and as for > names, people have been using pseudonyms on Usenet for as long as Usenet > has been here so the whole 'real name' argument is just a load more > bollocks. Besides, I'm more than happy to hide my real identity from > nutters like you ... have you ever heard of an 'internet footprint'? > > I judge people by the value of their contributions, not their names so > AFAIAC "Jerry Stuckle" (you're kidding right) you can bugger off back to > c.l.p. You won't be missed. I took the liberty of forwarding your reply lipska to c.l.p because Troll Jerry probably never ventures outside of "his" newsgroup. What you say is absolutely correct (except the part where we possibly haven't disagreed!). I wouldn't mind being labelled a "troll" if I actually engaged in trollish behaviour. But objecting to a self-appointed "newsgroup cop" who attempts to hijack threads and shove them into the groups *he* thinks they belong is most definitely *not* trollish. In fact, it's *anti* trollish. His whinging about free email addresses, nick names, no previous posts etc. is nothing but a diversion from his real agenda of censoring c.l.p so that only people *he* approves of and only subjects *he* approves of can be posted there. As I have said many times now, there is always (at least) one such self-appointed "cop" in every group. Most would call them trolls. To him (and them) I simply ROFL. -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 11:15 +0100 |
| Subject | [EOD] Re: c |
| Message-ID | <MPG.2d24ce992be18af18@202.177.16.121> |
| In reply to | #12379 |
In article <7YWdnVHsrJM_NSfPnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>, Qu0ll (Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com) says... > I wouldn't mind being labelled a "troll" if I actually engaged in trollish > behaviour. But objecting to a self-appointed "newsgroup cop" who > attempts to hijack threads and shove them into the groups *he* thinks > they belong is most definitely *not* trollish. Please notice you're have allowed yourself to be dragged into the troll's game by responding more often than necessary, which is what allowed the troll to hijack the thread in the first place. I personally don't have the greatest trouble with someone putting a troll right once and ignoring him thereafter, but this one is going on for too long in my opinion, and hopefully in yours too. May I, with no further argument, request an EOD here, please? Thank you in advance, -- ..Alesi's problem was that the back of the car was jumping up and down dangerously - and I can assure you from having been teammate to Jean Alesi and knowing what kind of cars that he can pull up with, when Jean Alesi says that a car is dangerous - it is. [Jonathan Palmer] --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 23:29 +1100 |
| Subject | Re: [EOD] Re: c |
| Message-ID | <1qOdnbDbY_OMTSfPnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #12380 |
"Wanja Gayk" wrote in message news:MPG.2d24ce992be18af18@202.177.16.121... > Please notice you're have allowed yourself to be dragged into the > troll's game by responding more often than necessary, which is what > allowed the troll to hijack the thread in the first place. > I personally don't have the greatest trouble with someone putting a > troll right once and ignoring him thereafter, but this one is going on > for too long in my opinion, and hopefully in yours too. > May I, with no further argument, request an EOD here, please? Well said. EOD. -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 12:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [EOD] Re: c |
| Message-ID | <l9ek6e$tmc$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #12381 |
On 25/12/13 12:29, Qu0ll wrote: > "Wanja Gayk" wrote in message news:MPG.2d24ce992be18af18@202.177.16.121... >> Please notice you're have allowed yourself to be dragged into the >> troll's game by responding more often than necessary, which is what >> allowed the troll to hijack the thread in the first place. >> I personally don't have the greatest trouble with someone putting a >> troll right once and ignoring him thereafter, but this one is going on >> for too long in my opinion, and hopefully in yours too. >> May I, with no further argument, request an EOD here, please? > > Well said. EOD. > > -- > And loving it, > > -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) > _________________________________________________ > Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com > [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] since the main protagonists are already plonked here, I only get to see the reactions. The answer is simple, plonk the protagonists yourself. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 17:46 +1100 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <XcmdnUIZCZxeGCfPnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #12376 |
"Graham Hobbs" wrote in message news:j1akb9d0q74ruod75e30fca2f9ronqpqo7@4ax.com... > Just browsing a couple of c.l.p threads I find the likes of Michael > Vilain, Jerry Stuckle, Christof Michael Becker, Denis McMahon, Tim > Streater, others .. you are simply 'Queue you zero el el'. Right, so you also agree that only those who have posted regularly in one particular group have either the right to post there or comment on other posts? Or that newcomers can be treated as though they are second-class citizens? What kind of group is this exactly? Because I am not aware of such rules in any *other* group! -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | Graham Hobbs <ghobbs@cdpwise.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 09:24 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <65qlb958egqfv5836ao8gdc23kouurb510@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #12378 |
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 17:46:54 +1100, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> wrote: >"Graham Hobbs" wrote in message >news:j1akb9d0q74ruod75e30fca2f9ronqpqo7@4ax.com... > >> Just browsing a couple of c.l.p threads I find the likes of Michael >> Vilain, Jerry Stuckle, Christof Michael Becker, Denis McMahon, Tim >> Streater, others .. you are simply 'Queue you zero el el'. > >Right, so you also agree that only those who have posted regularly in one >particular group have either the right to post there or comment on other >posts? Or that newcomers can be treated as though they are second-class >citizens? What kind of group is this exactly? Because I am not aware of >such rules in any *other* group! --- You did not answer my question. Was it unreasonable .. what is your name? Graham
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-29 22:51 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <52c0edb6$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12371 |
On 12/24/2013 8:49 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > But let me see if I can make this so simple even a TROLL can understand > it (probably not - TROLLS are too dense to understand much of anything). > This is for questions about the PHP LANGUAGE, not PHP PRODUCTS. See > the charter for this newsgroup. The only charter Google can find say that database connectivity from PHP (which is what a PHP ORM is) is on topic. What charter are you referring to? Arne
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-30 08:03 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <l9rque$t40$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #12428 |
On 12/29/2013 10:51 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 12/24/2013 8:49 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> But let me see if I can make this so simple even a TROLL can understand >> it (probably not - TROLLS are too dense to understand much of anything). >> This is for questions about the PHP LANGUAGE, not PHP PRODUCTS. See >> the charter for this newsgroup. > > The only charter Google can find say that database connectivity from PHP > (which is what a PHP ORM is) is on topic. > > What charter are you referring to? > > Arne > > ORM is not database connectivity. But you obviously are too stoopid to understand there is a difference. FYI. Database connectivity is discussed in the PHP manual (see www.php.net). ORM is NOT. But then I've found some Java programmers aren't very smart. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-30 12:40 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <52c1aff2$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12441 |
On 12/30/2013 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/29/2013 10:51 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 12/24/2013 8:49 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> But let me see if I can make this so simple even a TROLL can understand >>> it (probably not - TROLLS are too dense to understand much of anything). >>> This is for questions about the PHP LANGUAGE, not PHP PRODUCTS. See >>> the charter for this newsgroup. >> >> The only charter Google can find say that database connectivity from PHP >> (which is what a PHP ORM is) is on topic. >> >> What charter are you referring to? > > ORM is not database connectivity. It is what the application is using to connect to the database - that is connectivity. > But you obviously are too stoopid to > understand there is a difference. > > FYI. Database connectivity is discussed in the PHP manual (see > www.php.net). ORM is NOT. If the charter said that only what is covered in the PHP manual is on topic, then ORM was definitely off topic. But it does not. It includes database connectivity without making any restrictions on it being included in PHP and/or being documented in the PHP documentation. That means that PEAR DB stuff, ORM etc. are on topic. Live with it or get the charter changed. > But then I've found some Java programmers aren't very smart. Said the person that considered ORM's to be applications. Arne
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-30 12:46 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <l9sbig$787$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #12447 |
On 12/30/2013 12:40 PM, The well known TROLL Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 12/30/2013 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> On 12/29/2013 10:51 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 12/24/2013 8:49 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>> But let me see if I can make this so simple even a TROLL can understand >>>> it (probably not - TROLLS are too dense to understand much of >>>> anything). >>>> This is for questions about the PHP LANGUAGE, not PHP PRODUCTS. See >>>> the charter for this newsgroup. >>> >>> The only charter Google can find say that database connectivity from PHP >>> (which is what a PHP ORM is) is on topic. >>> >>> What charter are you referring to? >> >> ORM is not database connectivity. > > It is what the application is using to connect to the database - that > is connectivity. > >> But you obviously are too stoopid to >> understand there is a difference. >> >> FYI. Database connectivity is discussed in the PHP manual (see >> www.php.net). ORM is NOT. > > If the charter said that only what is covered in the PHP manual is > on topic, then ORM was definitely off topic. > > But it does not. It includes database connectivity without making > any restrictions on it being included in PHP and/or being documented > in the PHP documentation. > > That means that PEAR DB stuff, ORM etc. are on topic. > > Live with it or get the charter changed. > >> But then I've found some Java programmers aren't very smart. > > Said the person that considered ORM's to be applications. > > Arne > > The OP was asking about ORM packages. That is NOT "database connectivity". But you're too stoopid to know the difference. Applications and packages are best known by the people who wrote them; second are people are use them. Neither are present on comp.lang.php. But then you, who have never been on c.l.p., think you know better than the regulars who have been here for years. How like the TROLL you are. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-29 22:46 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <52c0eca1$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12358 |
On 12/22/2013 4:34 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/22/2013 4:20 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 4:09 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> On 12/22/2013 4:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> On 12/22/2013 3:47 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>>>> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various >>>>>>>> ORMs, >>>>>>>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to >>>>>>>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>>>>>>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >>>>>>>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>>>>>>> business code. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if >>>>>>>> they've >>>>>>>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>>>>>>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>>>>>>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around >>>>>>>> 2006) >>>>>>>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after >>>>>>>> Hibernate, >>>>>>>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what >>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame >>>>>>>> war, >>>>>>>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used >>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off >>>>>>>> applications to >>>>>>>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of >>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... >>>>>> >>>>>> Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP >>>>>> ORM's could be included in discussion. >>>>> >>>>> I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product questions - >>>>> which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. >>>>> >>>>> Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate for a >>>>> PHP language newsgroup. >>>>> >>>>> But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups and >>>>> think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. >>>> >>>> ORM's are not applications. They are libraries. >>>> >>>> And since it is question asking for comparison, then a group >>>> for a specific library is not a good choice. >>>> >>>> Instead a group with people with experience and interest in >>>> different ways of database access from PHP is needed. >>>> >>>> comp.lang.php does not seem that far fetched. >>>> >>>> Obviously comp.lang.php.databaseaccess or >>>> comp.lang.php.databaseaccess.orm >>>> would be even better if such exists. >>> >>> Yes, an ORM-related newsgroup would be more appropriate. There you have >>> people who know the advantages and disadvantages of various ORM's. >> >> ORM's are language specific. So it would need to be a PHP ORM group >> to cover PHP. >> >> Does one exist? >> >>> Few, if any, in the language-related newsgroups will have used an ORM, >>> and if they have, they have very limited experience. >> >> That depends on the language. >> >> In languages like Java and C# it would be >90% that have used an ORM. >> >> It is probably much less in PHP as ORM's are not as widely used >> in the PHP world. >> >> But I suspect that Daniel even may be interested in knowing more >> about why it is so. > > If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this > does not belong in c.l.p. So you keep saying. But just saying it does not make it correct. I just googled and found the original comp.lang.php charter from 2002. I says: "Since database connectivity is a large part of PHP, it will be considered topical in comp.lang.php." Unless you have changed the charter since then (Google can not find that, but that does not prove that it does not exist), then that means that ORM in PHP is on topic for comp.lang.php. Arne
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-30 14:54 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <8o2dnTQMEr8Dc13PnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #12427 |
"Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:52c0eca1$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... >> If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this >> does not belong in c.l.p. > > So you keep saying. > > But just saying it does not make it correct. > > I just googled and found the original comp.lang.php charter > from 2002. > > I says: > > "Since database connectivity is a large part of PHP, it will > be considered topical in comp.lang.php." > > Unless you have changed the charter since then (Google can not > find that, but that does not prove that it does not exist), then > that means that ORM in PHP is on topic for comp.lang.php. No, no, no Arne! Don't throw facts at a troll, they do not know how to handle them! I found this which I think is a more recent c.l.p charter and is the one that's obviously in effect now: "Posts are considered topical for comp.lang.php if they relate to PHP directly or indirectly but only if Jerry Stuckle approves of either the post, the content or the poster. Note: Jerry (who is the official owner of c.l.p) does *NOT* permit any posts which have any of the following attributes: 1. They are posted by someone who has never posted in c.l.p before. 2. The poster uses a Gmail address. 3. The poster chooses not to publish their actual name. 4. The poster or post makes Jerry look like a fool. Please email Jerry directly if any of this is not clear." Unfortunately point (4) results in most posts being declared spam by said owner. -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-29 23:06 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <52c0f159$0$297$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12429 |
On 12/29/2013 10:54 PM, Qu0ll wrote: > "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message > news:52c0eca1$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > >>> If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this >>> does not belong in c.l.p. >> >> So you keep saying. >> >> But just saying it does not make it correct. >> >> I just googled and found the original comp.lang.php charter >> from 2002. >> >> I says: >> >> "Since database connectivity is a large part of PHP, it will >> be considered topical in comp.lang.php." >> >> Unless you have changed the charter since then (Google can not >> find that, but that does not prove that it does not exist), then >> that means that ORM in PHP is on topic for comp.lang.php. > > No, no, no Arne! Don't throw facts at a troll, they do not know how to > handle them! > > I found this which I think is a more recent c.l.p charter and is the one > that's obviously in effect now: > > "Posts are considered topical for comp.lang.php if they relate to PHP > directly or indirectly but only if Jerry Stuckle approves of either the > post, the content or the poster. > > Note: Jerry (who is the official owner of c.l.p) does *NOT* permit any > posts which have any of the following attributes: > > 1. They are posted by someone who has never posted in c.l.p before. > 2. The poster uses a Gmail address. > 3. The poster chooses not to publish their actual name. > 4. The poster or post makes Jerry look like a fool. > > Please email Jerry directly if any of this is not clear." > > Unfortunately point (4) results in most posts being declared spam by > said owner. Please don't take a job within international diplomacy. :-) Arne
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-30 15:21 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <9rqdnS9Kl6hoaV3PnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #12431 |
"Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:52c0f159$0$297$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Please don't take a job within international diplomacy. True, I concede that was a bit below the belt. But very little annoys me more than someone who attempts to censor free speech. I apologise for going a little over-the-top. Sometimes passion for fairness and fair-play makes me do things in the heat of the moment I later regret... -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-30 08:04 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <l9rr04$t40$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #12427 |
On 12/29/2013 10:46 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 12/22/2013 4:34 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 4:20 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 12/22/2013 4:09 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>> On 12/22/2013 4:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:47 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>>>>> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various >>>>>>>>> ORMs, >>>>>>>>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch >>>>>>>>> systems to >>>>>>>>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>>>>>>>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >>>>>>>>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>>>>>>>> business code. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if >>>>>>>>> they've >>>>>>>>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they >>>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>>>>>>>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>>>>>>>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around >>>>>>>>> 2006) >>>>>>>>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after >>>>>>>>> Hibernate, >>>>>>>>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what >>>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame >>>>>>>>> war, >>>>>>>>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off >>>>>>>>> applications to >>>>>>>>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of >>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP >>>>>>> ORM's could be included in discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product >>>>>> questions - >>>>>> which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate for a >>>>>> PHP language newsgroup. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups and >>>>>> think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. >>>>> >>>>> ORM's are not applications. They are libraries. >>>>> >>>>> And since it is question asking for comparison, then a group >>>>> for a specific library is not a good choice. >>>>> >>>>> Instead a group with people with experience and interest in >>>>> different ways of database access from PHP is needed. >>>>> >>>>> comp.lang.php does not seem that far fetched. >>>>> >>>>> Obviously comp.lang.php.databaseaccess or >>>>> comp.lang.php.databaseaccess.orm >>>>> would be even better if such exists. >>>> >>>> Yes, an ORM-related newsgroup would be more appropriate. There you >>>> have >>>> people who know the advantages and disadvantages of various ORM's. >>> >>> ORM's are language specific. So it would need to be a PHP ORM group >>> to cover PHP. >>> >>> Does one exist? >>> >>>> Few, if any, in the language-related newsgroups will have used an ORM, >>>> and if they have, they have very limited experience. >>> >>> That depends on the language. >>> >>> In languages like Java and C# it would be >90% that have used an ORM. >>> >>> It is probably much less in PHP as ORM's are not as widely used >>> in the PHP world. >>> >>> But I suspect that Daniel even may be interested in knowing more >>> about why it is so. >> >> If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this >> does not belong in c.l.p. > > So you keep saying. > > But just saying it does not make it correct. > > I just googled and found the original comp.lang.php charter > from 2002. > > I says: > > "Since database connectivity is a large part of PHP, it will > be considered topical in comp.lang.php." > > Unless you have changed the charter since then (Google can not > find that, but that does not prove that it does not exist), then > that means that ORM in PHP is on topic for comp.lang.php. > > Arne > > > > ORM is not database connectivity. But you're too stoopid to understand the difference. Just like some other Java programmers. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-30 12:32 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <52c1ae33$0$304$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12442 |
On 12/30/2013 8:04 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/29/2013 10:46 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 4:34 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> On 12/22/2013 4:20 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> On 12/22/2013 4:09 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>> On 12/22/2013 4:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:47 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various >>>>>>>>>> ORMs, >>>>>>>>>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch >>>>>>>>>> systems to >>>>>>>>>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>>>>>>>>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the >>>>>>>>>> core >>>>>>>>>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>>>>>>>>> business code. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if >>>>>>>>>> they've >>>>>>>>>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they >>>>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>>>>>>>>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>>>>>>>>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around >>>>>>>>>> 2006) >>>>>>>>>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after >>>>>>>>>> Hibernate, >>>>>>>>>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what >>>>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a >>>>>>>>>> flame >>>>>>>>>> war, >>>>>>>>>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which >>>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off >>>>>>>>>> applications to >>>>>>>>>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of >>>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP >>>>>>>> ORM's could be included in discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product >>>>>>> questions - >>>>>>> which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate >>>>>>> for a >>>>>>> PHP language newsgroup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. >>>>>> >>>>>> ORM's are not applications. They are libraries. >>>>>> >>>>>> And since it is question asking for comparison, then a group >>>>>> for a specific library is not a good choice. >>>>>> >>>>>> Instead a group with people with experience and interest in >>>>>> different ways of database access from PHP is needed. >>>>>> >>>>>> comp.lang.php does not seem that far fetched. >>>>>> >>>>>> Obviously comp.lang.php.databaseaccess or >>>>>> comp.lang.php.databaseaccess.orm >>>>>> would be even better if such exists. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, an ORM-related newsgroup would be more appropriate. There you >>>>> have >>>>> people who know the advantages and disadvantages of various ORM's. >>>> >>>> ORM's are language specific. So it would need to be a PHP ORM group >>>> to cover PHP. >>>> >>>> Does one exist? >>>> >>>>> Few, if any, in the language-related newsgroups will have used an ORM, >>>>> and if they have, they have very limited experience. >>>> >>>> That depends on the language. >>>> >>>> In languages like Java and C# it would be >90% that have used an ORM. >>>> >>>> It is probably much less in PHP as ORM's are not as widely used >>>> in the PHP world. >>>> >>>> But I suspect that Daniel even may be interested in knowing more >>>> about why it is so. >>> >>> If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this >>> does not belong in c.l.p. >> >> So you keep saying. >> >> But just saying it does not make it correct. >> >> I just googled and found the original comp.lang.php charter >> from 2002. >> >> I says: >> >> "Since database connectivity is a large part of PHP, it will >> be considered topical in comp.lang.php." >> >> Unless you have changed the charter since then (Google can not >> find that, but that does not prove that it does not exist), then >> that means that ORM in PHP is on topic for comp.lang.php. > > ORM is not database connectivity. If it is what the PHP code is using to access the database, then it is providing database connectivity. > But you're too stoopid to understand > the difference. Name calling is not a very convincing argumentation. Arne
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