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Lightweight MVC framework

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  Lightweight MVC framework Andreas Ecaz <ecazs.net@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 17:25 -0700
    Re: Lightweight MVC framework T0xicCode <T0xic@co.de> - 2013-09-18 18:16 -0400
    Re: Lightweight MVC framework Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-09-19 00:57 +0200
    Re: Lightweight MVC framework Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-09-18 16:05 -0700
      Re: Lightweight MVC framework Twayne <nobody@spamcop.net> - 2013-09-18 19:37 -0400
        Re: Lightweight MVC framework Fiver <numeralfive@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 03:06 +0200
          Re: Lightweight MVC framework Twayne <nobody@spamcop.net> - 2013-09-19 12:21 -0400
    Re: Lightweight MVC framework Twayne <nobody@spamcop.net> - 2013-09-18 19:31 -0400
    Re: Lightweight MVC framework Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2013-09-19 11:03 +0200

#10796 — Lightweight MVC framework

I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).

Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.

Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".

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#10803

On 13-09-17 08:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".

While it's not exactly what you asked, most MVC frameworks (at least 
CakePHP, last I tried), supported being run completely from inside the 
/www folder. They used URLS like 
'web.host/index.php/Controller/Action/?other=args

However, depending on the size of your client's projected website, a 
full MVC might be too much.

-- 
--------
T0xicCode

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#10804

Andreas Ecaz wrote:

> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks.

You may consider using a CMS--setting up a personal website might be
done in a few hours.

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#10805

On 9/17/13 5:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>

I'm liking Symfony 2, we're using it for work.  I wouldn't say its 
'lightweight', but what does lightweight really buy you in this case?

I kind of think "framework" is the opposite of "lightweight" ;-)

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#10807

On 2013-09-18 7:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 9/17/13 5:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
>> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And
>> I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even
>> though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>>
>> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www
>> folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm
>> looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS
>> "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just
>> to get it to work.
>>
>> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC
>> framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC
>> approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>>
>
> I'm liking Symfony 2, we're using it for work.  I wouldn't say its
> 'lightweight', but what does lightweight really buy you in this case?
>
> I kind of think "framework" is the opposite of "lightweight" ;-)
>

I'd agree with that. Besides, since no parameters of the site were 
given, a basic website shouldn't take more than a couple days to put 
together anyway. Even if there's a guestbook or e-mail form they're 
pretty standard and PHP  makes short work of protecting them without 
much fuss. Assuming 8 to 10 hr days, that is.
    There aren't enough details about the mystery site to say much of 
anything else, IMO.

Twayne`

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#10808

On 2013-09-19 01:37, Twayne wrote:
> Even if there's a guestbook or e-mail form they're pretty standard
> and PHP makes short work of protecting them without much fuss.

News to me.

(skipping further sarcastic comments on PHP's imaginary built-in
protection features for forums and e-mail forms)


On the topic of frameworks, I've recently had a chance to use Nette:
<http://nette.org/>. Very well designed, IMHO, if you're using PHP 5.4+.
For a framework, it's light enough and doesn't get in your way. The
documentation is still somewhat lacking - part of it is in Czech,
apparently. It's also not suited for what the OP had in mind, but still
a surprisingly pleasant way to do MVC in PHP. One d isadvantage (in my
opinion) is that it uses a custom config file format.

regards,
5er

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#10811

On 2013-09-18 9:06 PM, Fiver wrote:
> On 2013-09-19 01:37, Twayne wrote:
>> Even if there's a guestbook or e-mail form they're pretty standard
>> and PHP makes short work of protecting them without much fuss.
>
> News to me.
>
> (skipping further sarcastic comments on PHP's imaginary built-in
> protection features for forums and e-mail forms)
>
>
> On the topic of frameworks, I've recently had a chance to use Nette:
> <http://nette.org/>. Very well designed, IMHO, if you're using PHP 5.4+.
> For a framework, it's light enough and doesn't get in your way. The
> documentation is still somewhat lacking - part of it is in Czech,
> apparently. It's also not suited for what the OP had in mind, but still
> a surprisingly pleasant way to do MVC in PHP. One d isadvantage (in my
> opinion) is that it uses a custom config file format.
>
> regards,
> 5er
>

Yeah, no serious argument from here. But as I surmised earlier, 'There 
aren't enough details about the mystery site to say much of anything 
else, IMO.' And in general PHP can do an excellent job of at least 
making sure nothing untoward gets thru the form. Although there is no 
such thing as perfect security PHP can do a fair job of making it not 
worth their while in most cases. Finger-printing frameworks et al on the 
other hand is questionably better and certainly worth knowing about but 
most of my research has found several reputable sites that state it's 
not what it's cracked up to be.
    Each to his own opinion of course, and I've no objection to your 
disagreeing with me; but for now at least, it's a back-burner thing and 
it's being figured out rather easily by some of the newer miscreant's 
applications.

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#10806

On 2013-09-17 8:25 PM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted

to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure"

  PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder
and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a 
lightweight
MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't 
feel like
hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.

I doubt the client would be very happy with that either, especially if 
he's not good at
doing websites on his own.

>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC
framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC 
approach
since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>

Hmm, don't really see that as much of a problem: Just make it a flat 
file structure, which is apparently all they'll offer; not unusual. 
It'll work fine and I doubt such a site would get very large anyway as 
they're often limited to pretty small disc appropriations and traffic. I 
know a few who have some fairly large sites in a flat structure. Else 
perhaps convince him to pay for site space; it's not very expensive at 
all these days.

(IMO) you're a little iffy about giving the customer what he wants, 
which is going to be something simple and easy to maintain. Perhaps you 
should recommend someone who would be happier to work with him.
    In addition, you really should set your mail client so the lines 
have a finite length instead of just all one line.

Twayne`

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#10809

On 9/18/2013 2:25 AM, Andreas Ecaz wrote:
> I have a client who needs a personal website done in a few weeks. And I wanted to use an MVC framework because I like the approach (even though my "pure" PHP is very clear in separating logic).
>
> Problem though, this is on shared hosting. You have access to your www folder and that is it, you can't go outside the www folder so I'm looking for a lightweight MVC framework that doesn't come with the BS "/public" folder. I don't feel like hacking away with mod_rewrite just to get it to work.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just skip the MVC framework and do it "pure". But I still wanna learn more about the MVC approach since a lot of job hirings are looking for "MVC gurus".
>


You won't master a MVC framework in a week or so, if it is new for you.
Yes, the idea is simple and clean, but actually using some MVC framework 
  means learning a lot, mainly the API and the way things are done.
All things you can do now in "pure PHP" easily, will be different.

So unless you LIKE to learn MVC, I would advice against it for a simple 
website, since you are already an able programmer, as you claim.

My experience with MVC is limited to some projects in Java, and for PHP 
only Cake and codeigniter.

My personal impression about the latter 2:
- Cake is very strict: I hate their straight jacket approach, and 
stopped using it.
- Codeigniter is much more lenient: you can USE the framework when you 
feel the need, but you can skip it as easily too.

I hope this helps you decide.

Regards,
Erwin Moller


-- 
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without 
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens

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