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php daemon

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  php daemon "sl@exabyte" <sb5309@hotmail.com> - 2012-11-12 01:18 +0800
    Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-11 14:04 -0500
      Re: php daemon Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-11-11 21:05 +0100
        Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-11 15:35 -0500
          Re: php daemon Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-11-11 22:22 +0100
            Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-11 16:36 -0500
              Re: php daemon Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-11-11 23:17 +0100
                Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-11 18:11 -0500
                  Re: php daemon Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-11-12 14:35 +0100
                    Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-12 08:38 -0500
                    Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-13 07:44 -0500
                      Re: php daemon Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-11-14 21:19 +0100
                        Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-14 16:33 -0500
                          Re: php daemon Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-11-14 23:13 +0100
                            Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-15 07:41 -0500
                              Re: php daemon Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-11-15 16:55 +0100
      Re: php daemon "sl@exabyte" <sb5309@hotmail.com> - 2012-11-12 23:45 +0800
        Re: php daemon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-12 16:08 +0000
    Re: php daemon Goran <goran@nospam.com> - 2012-11-13 08:57 +0100
      Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-13 07:47 -0500
        Re: php daemon Goran <goran@nospam.com> - 2012-11-13 14:54 +0100
          Re: php daemon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-13 14:13 +0000
          Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-13 12:23 -0500
            Re: php daemon Goran <goran@nospam.com> - 2012-11-14 08:43 +0100
              Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-14 05:51 -0500
                Re: php daemon Goran <goran@nospam.com> - 2012-11-15 14:08 +0100
                  Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-15 08:46 -0500
                    Re: php daemon Goran <goran@nospam.com> - 2012-11-15 16:09 +0100
                      Re: php daemon Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-11-15 11:25 -0500
                    Re: php daemon Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-11-15 16:20 +0000

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#7547

On 13.11.2012 13:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> I'd do it in C or C++.

Ok, let's all hire the C daemon guy, explain this to human resources
department...

> What a kludge.

Wll, life is a kludge too

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#7548

On 13/11/12 13:54, Goran wrote:
> On 13.11.2012 13:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> I'd do it in C or C++.
>
> Ok, let's all hire the C daemon guy, explain this to human resources
> department...
>

Oh FFS its hardly rocket science to write a basic daemon with all the 
crib code out there.


>> What a kludge.
>
> Wll, life is a kludge too
>


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#7549

On 11/13/2012 8:54 AM, Goran wrote:
> On 13.11.2012 13:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> I'd do it in C or C++.
>
> Ok, let's all hire the C daemon guy, explain this to human resources
> department...
>

Yes, let's do it right.  You could also contract it out.


>> What a kludge.
>
> Wll, life is a kludge too
>

Sorry to hear your's is.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#7552

On 13.11.2012 18:23, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Ok, let's all hire the C daemon guy, explain this to human resources
>> department...
> Yes, let's do it right.  You could also contract it out.

There is nothing wrong with PHP daemons. As I mentioned, example I wrote
is common pattern in PHP world so it is proven solution.
But yes, if you are lazy enough you could hire C programmer.

> Sorry to hear your's is.

Oh, it's personal now?

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#7553

On 11/14/2012 2:43 AM, Goran wrote:
> On 13.11.2012 18:23, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> Ok, let's all hire the C daemon guy, explain this to human resources
>>> department...
>> Yes, let's do it right.  You could also contract it out.
>
> There is nothing wrong with PHP daemons. As I mentioned, example I wrote
> is common pattern in PHP world so it is proven solution.
> But yes, if you are lazy enough you could hire C programmer.
>

Yes, it is a common pattern for people who don't know better. 
Knowledgeable programmers understand PHP is not a good language to write 
daemons.  They use an appropriate language which doesn't have to resort 
to such kludges.

>> Sorry to hear your's is.
>
> Oh, it's personal now?
>

You're the one who claimed life's a kludge, so yours must be.  Mine isn't.
-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#7569

On 14.11.2012 11:51, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> You're the one who claimed life's a kludge, so yours must be.  Mine isn't.

As I can see, you tend to overcomplicate things, that's why I believe
your life is a mess.

> Yes, it is a common pattern for people who don't know better.

Maybe it's time for you to start defining what's wrong with my example
(after so much bs talk). Define kludge.

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#7571

On 11/15/2012 8:08 AM, Goran wrote:
> On 14.11.2012 11:51, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> You're the one who claimed life's a kludge, so yours must be.  Mine isn't.
>
> As I can see, you tend to overcomplicate things, that's why I believe
> your life is a mess.
>

Nope, you're the one who had to put together a kludge instead of using a 
more appropriate language.

>> Yes, it is a common pattern for people who don't know better.
>
> Maybe it's time for you to start defining what's wrong with my example
> (after so much bs talk). Define kludge.
>

You have to keep stopping and starting it, for one thing.  And in your 
loop you need to sleep() for a while.

And you confuse the "stateless nature of the web" with daemons - they 
have nothing to do with each other.

Or maybe you don't understand what a daemon is, or how a *real* daemon 
works.


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#7573

On 15.11.2012 14:46, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/15/2012 8:08 AM, Goran wrote:
>> On 14.11.2012 11:51, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> You're the one who claimed life's a kludge, so yours must be.  Mine
>>> isn't.
>>
>> As I can see, you tend to overcomplicate things, that's why I believe
>> your life is a mess.
>>
> 
> Nope, you're the one who had to put together a kludge instead of using a
> more appropriate language.

I guess you are the kind of person which prefer to buy a car instead of
paying for single taxi drive.

>>> Yes, it is a common pattern for people who don't know better.
>>
>> Maybe it's time for you to start defining what's wrong with my example
>> (after so much bs talk). Define kludge.
>>
> 
> You have to keep stopping and starting it, for one thing.  And in your
> loop you need to sleep() for a while.

Every daemon needs loop, sleep is completely optional in every language
(it's just an example). Whats wrong with restarting? It's not your job,
it's supervisord's job. Even regular daemons need autorestarting for
failover sometimes.

> And you confuse the "stateless nature of the web" with daemons - they
> have nothing to do with each other.

You took it out of context, how appropriate...

PHP is scripting language primarily made for web - not designed to deal
with long running applications. Therefor, it's memory management is not
so precise - it's optimized for performance, not for memory usage.
Therefore, it's ideal for "stateless nature of the web", because there
is no need to carry state among http requests.

Although, it's suboptimal for daemons, with a little help of supervisord
it can be efficient enough.

> Or maybe you don't understand what a daemon is, or how a *real* daemon
> works.

You know what? My dad eat daemons for breakfast!

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#7581

On 11/15/2012 10:09 AM, Goran wrote:
> On 15.11.2012 14:46, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/15/2012 8:08 AM, Goran wrote:
>>> On 14.11.2012 11:51, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> You're the one who claimed life's a kludge, so yours must be.  Mine
>>>> isn't.
>>>
>>> As I can see, you tend to overcomplicate things, that's why I believe
>>> your life is a mess.
>>>
>>
>> Nope, you're the one who had to put together a kludge instead of using a
>> more appropriate language.
>
> I guess you are the kind of person which prefer to buy a car instead of
> paying for single taxi drive.
>

Absolutely nothing to do with the question.  I prefer to do it *right*.

>>>> Yes, it is a common pattern for people who don't know better.
>>>
>>> Maybe it's time for you to start defining what's wrong with my example
>>> (after so much bs talk). Define kludge.
>>>
>>
>> You have to keep stopping and starting it, for one thing.  And in your
>> loop you need to sleep() for a while.
>
> Every daemon needs loop, sleep is completely optional in every language
> (it's just an example). Whats wrong with restarting? It's not your job,
> it's supervisord's job. Even regular daemons need autorestarting for
> failover sometimes.
>

Yes, but good daemons don't need to stop and restart.  They also don't 
use sleep().

As for restarting - extra overhead on the processor, for one thing.  But 
mainly the daemon loses any existing values, and is not available during 
the restart procedure.

I can imagine how far an ftp server daemon would go if you had to log on 
after every ten blocks were uploaded!

>> And you confuse the "stateless nature of the web" with daemons - they
>> have nothing to do with each other.
>
> You took it out of context, how appropriate...
>

Nope.  You're the one who mentioned them together.

> PHP is scripting language primarily made for web - not designed to deal
> with long running applications. Therefor, it's memory management is not
> so precise - it's optimized for performance, not for memory usage.
> Therefore, it's ideal for "stateless nature of the web", because there
> is no need to carry state among http requests.
>

PHP is written as a web language, but it's also good for scripting 
files.  And no, it is not "optimized for performance".  It is "optimized 
for ease of coding".  PHP performance is actually pretty bad when 
compared to other languages like C.  But while you *can* use C for web 
projects, it is not a good choice, IMHO.

And yes, there is a need for carrying state amongst http requests. 
That's what $_SESSION is all about.

> Although, it's suboptimal for daemons, with a little help of supervisord
> it can be efficient enough.
>

It's crap for daemons.  It was never meant to be used for them.  But 
then there are always people why try to use a hammer when a screwdriver 
is more appropriate.

>> Or maybe you don't understand what a daemon is, or how a *real* daemon
>> works.
>
> You know what? My dad eat daemons for breakfast!
>

I can believe that!

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#7580

In article <k82rn7$fgl$1@dont-email.me>,
 Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:

> On 11/15/2012 8:08 AM, Goran wrote:
> > On 14.11.2012 11:51, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> >> You're the one who claimed life's a kludge, so yours must be.  Mine isn't.
> >
> > As I can see, you tend to overcomplicate things, that's why I believe
> > your life is a mess.
> >
> 
> Nope, you're the one who had to put together a kludge instead of using a 
> more appropriate language.
> 
> >> Yes, it is a common pattern for people who don't know better.
> >
> > Maybe it's time for you to start defining what's wrong with my example
> > (after so much bs talk). Define kludge.
> >
> 
> You have to keep stopping and starting it, for one thing.  And in your 
> loop you need to sleep() for a while.

I haven't looked into whether PHP offers any such facilities, but what 
should really be happening is:

  wait ();

where the wait is exited if an event occurs. It would require the 
capability to declare something to be an event and to queue a work item 
when the event occurs, etc etc.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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