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How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

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  How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue sismaster <singh.ranalko@gmail.com> - 2012-08-21 22:18 -0700
    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-22 06:43 -0400
      Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2012-08-22 06:06 -0500
        Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-22 08:17 -0400
        Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-23 00:36 +0200
          Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-23 00:54 +0100
          Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-23 11:03 -0400
            Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2012-08-23 11:10 -0700
              Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-24 00:27 +0200
                Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-23 23:41 +0100
                  Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-23 23:43 +0100
                  Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-23 20:05 -0400
                  Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Bertrand Mayesky <not.a@real.adress.com> - 2012-08-24 21:42 +0000
                    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-25 00:22 +0200
                    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-24 19:37 -0400
                      Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-08-25 10:30 +1000
                        Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-24 22:39 -0400
                        Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-25 13:17 +0200
                          Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-25 09:38 -0400
                          Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2012-08-25 13:34 -0500
                            Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-25 14:59 -0400
                            Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2012-08-25 14:13 -0500
                              Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-25 16:23 -0400
                              Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-26 20:33 +0200
                            Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-26 20:32 +0200
                              Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-26 19:49 -0400
                    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-25 00:45 +0100
                Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-23 20:03 -0400
            Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-08-26 15:46 +0200
              Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-26 10:41 -0400
                Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-08-26 17:42 +0200
                  Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-26 19:02 +0100
                  Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-26 19:52 -0400
                    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-08-27 02:59 +0200
                      Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-26 21:28 -0400
                    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov.invalid> - 2012-08-27 04:47 +0000
                      Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-27 10:17 +0100
                        Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov.invalid> - 2012-08-27 11:32 +0000
                          Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-27 12:49 +0100
                          Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2012-08-27 22:46 +0000
                            Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-08-27 23:51 +0100
                              Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-08-27 21:00 -0400
              Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2012-08-26 10:35 -0500
                Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i  see what object inclue Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-08-26 18:53 +0200
                  Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-08-26 20:47 +0200
                  Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-08-26 22:59 +0100
                    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-08-27 00:20 +0200
    Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object  how can i see what object inclue Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2012-08-25 01:46 +0000

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#6851

On 8/25/2012 2:34 PM, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 13:17:31 +0200, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Jeff North wrote:
>>
>>> Both of you are right and wrong.
>>
>> That depends on what the question is, which is not at all clear here.
>>
>>> If ppl took (literally) 2 seconds to do a search you would find:
>>> http://www.firephp.org/
>>
>> Or they could read my postings; I have pointed out FirePHP in my first
>> followup two days ago already.  However, ISTM that this "discussion" came
>> about is that 1. the original question is gibberish, which can be
>> interpreted in multiple ways, and 2. that quoting distorted my first
>> followup.
>
> Yeah, you don't wanna try to take credit for that. FirePHP is a bundle
> of code that allows PHP programs running on a server to send stuff to
> FireBug, a javascript debugger running in FireFox, as a client. Which
> may aid in debugging the interaction between PHP server programs and
> client Javascript. Which is nifty, useful, and entirely supporting
> the point you're trying to argue against.
>

Peter, we already know he doesn't know what he's talking about - but he 
insists on continuing to prove it.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#6852

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 13:34:09 -0500, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> Yeah, you don't wanna try to take credit for that. FirePHP is a bundle
> of code that allows PHP programs running on a server to send stuff to
> FireBug, a javascript debugger running in FireFox, as a client. Which
> may aid in debugging the interaction between PHP server programs and
> client Javascript. Which is nifty, useful, and entirely supporting
> the point you're trying to argue against.

Just so we're clear, when I'm saying "as a client", I'm saying FireBug
is the client.

-- 
_  o
 |/)

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#6853

On 8/25/2012 3:13 PM, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 13:34:09 -0500, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
>> Yeah, you don't wanna try to take credit for that. FirePHP is a bundle
>> of code that allows PHP programs running on a server to send stuff to
>> FireBug, a javascript debugger running in FireFox, as a client. Which
>> may aid in debugging the interaction between PHP server programs and
>> client Javascript. Which is nifty, useful, and entirely supporting
>> the point you're trying to argue against.
>
> Just so we're clear, when I'm saying "as a client", I'm saying FireBug
> is the client.
>

Actually, I think it can be argued that Firefox is the client.  Firebug 
is just an add-on which extends the capabilities of Firefox.

But it still doesn't run PHP code.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#6866

Peter H. Coffin wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 13:34:09 -0500, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
>> Yeah, you don't wanna try to take credit for that. FirePHP is a bundle
>> of code that allows PHP programs running on a server to send stuff to
>> FireBug, a javascript debugger running in FireFox, as a client. Which
>> may aid in debugging the interaction between PHP server programs and
>> client Javascript. Which is nifty, useful, and entirely supporting
>> the point you're trying to argue against.
> 
> Just so we're clear, when I'm saying "as a client", I'm saying FireBug
> is the client.

Still wrong.


PointedEars
-- 
Use any version of Microsoft Frontpage to create your site.
(This won't prevent people from viewing your source, but no one
will want to steal it.)
  -- from <http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/hidesource.htm> (404-comp.)

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#6865

Peter H. Coffin wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 13:17:31 +0200, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Jeff North wrote:
>>> Both of you are right and wrong.
>> That depends on what the question is, which is not at all clear here.
>>
>>> If ppl took (literally) 2 seconds to do a search you would find:
>>> http://www.firephp.org/
>>
>> Or they could read my postings; I have pointed out FirePHP in my first
>> followup two days ago already.  However, ISTM that this "discussion" came
>> about is that 1. the original question is gibberish, which can be
>> interpreted in multiple ways, and 2. that quoting distorted my first
>> followup.
> 
> Yeah, you don't wanna try to take credit for that.

Pardon?

> FirePHP is a bundle of code that allows PHP programs running on a server
> to send stuff to FireBug, a javascript debugger running in FireFox, as a
> client. Which may aid in debugging the interaction between PHP server
> programs and client Javascript. Which is nifty, useful, and entirely

There still is no Javascript.  Regardless, originally _Firebug_'s FirePHP 
extension (now also supported elsewhere) supports debugging the interaction 
between PHP server applications and the client side; not only and not 
necessarily ECMAScript implementations on the client side.  That's a 
"however", which I also meant in my first followup, if you cared to read it.

> supporting the point you're trying to argue against.

Nonsense.  Obviously you have not even understood, let alone read my 
argument.


PointedEars
-- 
Danny Goodman's books are out of date and teach practices that are
positively harmful for cross-browser scripting.
  -- Richard Cornford, cljs, <cife6q$253$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk> (2004)

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#6873

On 8/26/2012 2:32 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Peter H. Coffin wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 13:17:31 +0200, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Jeff North wrote:
>>>> Both of you are right and wrong.
>>> That depends on what the question is, which is not at all clear here.
>>>
>>>> If ppl took (literally) 2 seconds to do a search you would find:
>>>> http://www.firephp.org/
>>>
>>> Or they could read my postings; I have pointed out FirePHP in my first
>>> followup two days ago already.  However, ISTM that this "discussion" came
>>> about is that 1. the original question is gibberish, which can be
>>> interpreted in multiple ways, and 2. that quoting distorted my first
>>> followup.
>>
>> Yeah, you don't wanna try to take credit for that.
>
> Pardon?
>
>> FirePHP is a bundle of code that allows PHP programs running on a server
>> to send stuff to FireBug, a javascript debugger running in FireFox, as a
>> client. Which may aid in debugging the interaction between PHP server
>> programs and client Javascript. Which is nifty, useful, and entirely
>
> There still is no Javascript.  Regardless, originally _Firebug_'s FirePHP
> extension (now also supported elsewhere) supports debugging the interaction
> between PHP server applications and the client side; not only and not
> necessarily ECMAScript implementations on the client side.  That's a
> "however", which I also meant in my first followup, if you cared to read it.
>
>> supporting the point you're trying to argue against.
>
> Nonsense.  Obviously you have not even understood, let alone read my
> argument.
>
>
> PointedEars
>

Everyone's read your arguments, Pointed Head.  And everyone's seen how 
wrong you are.

You should have quit before your first post.  You just continue to show 
your ignorance.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#6844

Bertrand Mayesky wrote:
> Le Thu, 23 Aug 2012 23:41:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher a écrit :
> 
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Scott Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/23/2012 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script
>>>>>>>>> and is there any tool to see what object contains
>>>>>>>> PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client.  They
>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>>                             ^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>>>> "see" each other.
>>>>>> Wrong on both accounts.
>>>>> [snip mindless full quote]
>>>>> ROFLMAO!  "Pointed Head" shows his stoopidity once again.
>>>>>
>>>>> So tell me, oh great one, exactly which browsers can run PHP code?
>>>>> And how many servers are actually running Javascript?
>>>>>
>>>>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>>>>>
>>>>> You have all the answers - these should be easy for you.
>>>> *Gets the microwave popcorn ready
>>> Don't hold your breath, I try not to feed trolls.
>>>
>>>
>>> PointedEars
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript
>>
>> "Server-side JavaScript
>>
>> Netscape introduced an implementation of the language for server-side
>> scripting with Netscape Enterprise Server, first released in December,
>> 1994 (soon after releasing JavaScript for browsers).[14][15] Since the
>> mid-2000s, there has been a proliferation of server-side JavaScript
>> implementations. node.js is one recent notable example of server-side
>> JavaScript being used in real-world applications."
>>
>> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Client-side_PHP.aspx
>>
>> "..Technology has also empowered "certain programmers" to create new
>> perversions in information technology never imagined before. Gustavo
>> Carvalho discovered what happens when XMLHttpRequest and the Eval()
>> function in PHP are combined. I'll leave it to your immagination as to
>> what the server-side looks like ... "
>>
>> So as usual Pointed ears is correct, but supremely unhelpful :-)
> 
> I'm sure that PointedEars is not correct: the client structure cannot be 
> natively seen by the server and vice versa. 

Sure, but  is not the issue

> It is not a matter of programming language: they do not share the same 
> data space as it is in the client-server paradigm. 

The issue is using a server side javascript to serve pages and using a 
cliunt side PHP that is tranaferred to the server for execution

-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#6838

On 8/23/2012 6:27 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Scott Johnson wrote:
>
>> On 8/23/2012 8:03 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script and
>>>>>>> is there any tool to see what object contains
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client.  They cannot
>>>>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>                              ^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>> "see" each other.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong on both accounts.
>>>
>>> [snip mindless full quote]
>>> ROFLMAO!  "Pointed Head" shows his stoopidity once again.
>>>
>>> So tell me, oh great one, exactly which browsers can run PHP code?
>>> And how many servers are actually running Javascript?
>>>
>>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>>>
>>> You have all the answers - these should be easy for you.
>>
>> *Gets the microwave popcorn ready
>
> Don't hold your breath, I try not to feed trolls.
>
>
> PointedEars
>

No, you don't have an answer because you're wrong - as usual.


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#6858 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script and is
>>>>> there any tool to see what object contains
>>>>
>>>> PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client.  They cannot
>>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>                           ^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> "see" each other.
>>
>> Wrong on both accounts.
>>
> 
> ROFLMAO!  "Pointed Head" shows his stoopidity once again.
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^
             Who? ;-)
> 
> So tell me, oh great one, exactly which browsers can run PHP code?

I'm actually no "great one", but I can answer this question: at least on
all browsers, which implement the NPAPI. I'm not aware of any
PHP-Browser-Plugin, but it can be written, so PHP *can* run on browsers.

> And how many servers are actually running Javascript?

That's not the point. You've said "PHP runs on the server; Javascript
runs on the client", what might be easily lead to the wrong assumption,
that "Javascript" can't run on the server.

> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?

Actually it can't. But Thomas didn't say so (please note the carets,
which might not be aligned properly in the news reader, but are so in
the source code of the message).

Sincerely,

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#6859 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

On 8/26/2012 9:46 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script and is
>>>>>> there any tool to see what object contains
>>>>>
>>>>> PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client.  They cannot
>>>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>                            ^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>> "see" each other.
>>>
>>> Wrong on both accounts.
>>>
>>
>> ROFLMAO!  "Pointed Head" shows his stoopidity once again.
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>               Who? ;-)
>>
>> So tell me, oh great one, exactly which browsers can run PHP code?
>
> I'm actually no "great one", but I can answer this question: at least on
> all browsers, which implement the NPAPI. I'm not aware of any
> PHP-Browser-Plugin, but it can be written, so PHP *can* run on browsers.
>

The question is not if PHP *can* run on the browser.  The question is 
which browsers *run* PHP.

>> And how many servers are actually running Javascript?
>
> That's not the point. You've said "PHP runs on the server; Javascript
> runs on the client", what might be easily lead to the wrong assumption,
> that "Javascript" can't run on the server.
>

Again, the question is not how many servers *can* run Javascript.  How 
many servers DO RUN Javascript?

>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>
> Actually it can't. But Thomas didn't say so (please note the carets,
> which might not be aligned properly in the news reader, but are so in
> the source code of the message).
>
> Sincerely,
>

No, but that was the original question, wasn't it?

But Pointed Head did indicate I was wrong on two accounts.  And you 
haven't said anything to prove otherwise.

IOW, he just opened his fat trap to hear himself talk, as usual.  And, 
as usual, he's showing his ignorance (as are you).


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#6860 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 8/26/2012 9:46 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script
>>>>>>> and is
>>>>>>> there any tool to see what object contains

[snip]

>>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>>
>> Actually it can't. But Thomas didn't say so (please note the carets,
>> which might not be aligned properly in the news reader, but are so in
>> the source code of the message).
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
> 
> No, but that was the original question, wasn't it?

I'm not sure about that. In fact the OP didn't even mention PHP. Well,
he posted on c.l.php, but it might well have been the wrong newsgroup. I
*guess* the OP just wanted to know some way to inspect JS objects, what
was already answered by Robert. But I may be wrong with this guess, as
I'm no native English speaker (what's probably quite obvious).

> But Pointed Head did indicate I was wrong on two accounts.  And you
> haven't said anything to prove otherwise.

Actually I've just answered the questions *you* had asked (even if the
were rhetorical). I cannot prove neither of you right or wrong. The
statement "PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client." is
not true in every case, even if it's typically true for PHP development.
And I won't argue, if the name "Javascript" is correct in this context,
or if one should use "ECMAScript" or point out that it's called
"JScript" on IE.

> IOW, he just opened his fat trap to hear himself talk, as usual.

I can't acknowledge that statement. ISTM Thomas has quite some knowledge
about web development, and I have learned from him, as I have from you.

> And, as usual, he's showing his ignorance (as are you).

Would you have replied, if somebody had called you "Jerry Struggle",
"stoopid" and "O great one"?

-- 
Christoph M.Becker

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#6864 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

Christoph Becker wrote:

> Would you have replied, if somebody had called you "Jerry Struggle",
> "stoopid" and "O great one"?
> 


Oh definitely. Jerrykins Stucklehead ALWAYS has the last word.
It was fun for a while, but eventually its just boring.

-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#6874 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

On 8/26/2012 11:42 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 8/26/2012 9:46 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script
>>>>>>>> and is
>>>>>>>> there any tool to see what object contains
>
> [snip]
>
>>>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>>>
>>> Actually it can't. But Thomas didn't say so (please note the carets,
>>> which might not be aligned properly in the news reader, but are so in
>>> the source code of the message).
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>
>> No, but that was the original question, wasn't it?
>
> I'm not sure about that. In fact the OP didn't even mention PHP. Well,
> he posted on c.l.php, but it might well have been the wrong newsgroup. I
> *guess* the OP just wanted to know some way to inspect JS objects, what
> was already answered by Robert. But I may be wrong with this guess, as
> I'm no native English speaker (what's probably quite obvious).
>

He posted in a PHP newsgroup, so my answer was in relation to PHP.  If 
he wanted something else, he should have been more clear (or posted in a 
more appropriate newsgroup).


>> But Pointed Head did indicate I was wrong on two accounts.  And you
>> haven't said anything to prove otherwise.
>
> Actually I've just answered the questions *you* had asked (even if the
> were rhetorical). I cannot prove neither of you right or wrong. The
> statement "PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client." is
> not true in every case, even if it's typically true for PHP development.
> And I won't argue, if the name "Javascript" is correct in this context,
> or if one should use "ECMAScript" or point out that it's called
> "JScript" on IE.
>

Nope.  The question was real.  How many browsers can run PHP code?  And 
how many web servers actually run Javascript (I'm not counting wanna-be 
developers who are running 50 hit/mo. sites out of their basement, where 
49 of those hits are from the site owner).

>> IOW, he just opened his fat trap to hear himself talk, as usual.
>
> I can't acknowledge that statement. ISTM Thomas has quite some knowledge
> about web development, and I have learned from him, as I have from you.
>

Not in this group he isn't.  And not in several other groups, where he's 
also recognized as a troll.

>> And, as usual, he's showing his ignorance (as are you).
>
> Would you have replied, if somebody had called you "Jerry Struggle",
> "stoopid" and "O great one"?
>

I've been called worse.  And by better people than you.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#6875 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 8/26/2012 11:42 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 8/26/2012 9:46 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script
>>>>>>>>> and is
>>>>>>>>> there any tool to see what object contains
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>>>>
>>>> Actually it can't. But Thomas didn't say so (please note the carets,
>>>> which might not be aligned properly in the news reader, but are so in
>>>> the source code of the message).
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, but that was the original question, wasn't it?
>>
>> I'm not sure about that. In fact the OP didn't even mention PHP. Well,
>> he posted on c.l.php, but it might well have been the wrong newsgroup. I
>> *guess* the OP just wanted to know some way to inspect JS objects, what
>> was already answered by Robert. But I may be wrong with this guess, as
>> I'm no native English speaker (what's probably quite obvious).
>>
> 
> He posted in a PHP newsgroup, so my answer was in relation to PHP.  If
> he wanted something else, he should have been more clear (or posted in a
> more appropriate newsgroup).
> 
> 
>>> But Pointed Head did indicate I was wrong on two accounts.  And you
>>> haven't said anything to prove otherwise.
>>
>> Actually I've just answered the questions *you* had asked (even if the
>> were rhetorical). I cannot prove neither of you right or wrong. The
>> statement "PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client." is
>> not true in every case, even if it's typically true for PHP development.
>> And I won't argue, if the name "Javascript" is correct in this context,
>> or if one should use "ECMAScript" or point out that it's called
>> "JScript" on IE.
>>
> 
> Nope.  The question was real.  How many browsers can run PHP code?

*can*? AISB: at least all that implement the NPAPI, assuming that a PHP
browser plugin *can* be (or already have been?) written.

> And
> how many web servers actually run Javascript (I'm not counting wanna-be
> developers who are running 50 hit/mo. sites out of their basement, where
> 49 of those hits are from the site owner).

See e.g. <http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-js/all/all>.
w3techs's only counting the top 1,000,000 sites.  So currently 250 of
the top million websites are running Javascript (assumably all of them
have far more than 50 hits/mo.).  And please note the trend: in 9 months
the usage has doubled!

>>> IOW, he just opened his fat trap to hear himself talk, as usual.
>>
>> I can't acknowledge that statement. ISTM Thomas has quite some knowledge
>> about web development, and I have learned from him, as I have from you.
>>
> 
> Not in this group he isn't.  And not in several other groups, where he's
> also recognized as a troll.
> 
>>> And, as usual, he's showing his ignorance (as are you).
>>
>> Would you have replied, if somebody had called you "Jerry Struggle",
>> "stoopid" and "O great one"?
>>
> 
> I've been called worse.  And by better people than you.

My apologies, as it seems I have not expressed myself properly.  I
didn't mean to insult you in any way.  This was merely meant as a
"translation" (sorry, I'm lacking the appropriate word) of your reply to
Thomas, which might have been appropriate as reply to a troll -- which
IMHO Thomas isn't -- but every reader should decide for himself.

And yes, I'm quite aware that there are better people than me.  Thanks
for reminding me.

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#6876 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

On 8/26/2012 8:59 PM, Christoph Becker wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 8/26/2012 11:42 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 8/26/2012 9:46 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>>>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script
>>>>>>>>>> and is
>>>>>>>>>> there any tool to see what object contains
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually it can't. But Thomas didn't say so (please note the carets,
>>>>> which might not be aligned properly in the news reader, but are so in
>>>>> the source code of the message).
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, but that was the original question, wasn't it?
>>>
>>> I'm not sure about that. In fact the OP didn't even mention PHP. Well,
>>> he posted on c.l.php, but it might well have been the wrong newsgroup. I
>>> *guess* the OP just wanted to know some way to inspect JS objects, what
>>> was already answered by Robert. But I may be wrong with this guess, as
>>> I'm no native English speaker (what's probably quite obvious).
>>>
>>
>> He posted in a PHP newsgroup, so my answer was in relation to PHP.  If
>> he wanted something else, he should have been more clear (or posted in a
>> more appropriate newsgroup).
>>
>>
>>>> But Pointed Head did indicate I was wrong on two accounts.  And you
>>>> haven't said anything to prove otherwise.
>>>
>>> Actually I've just answered the questions *you* had asked (even if the
>>> were rhetorical). I cannot prove neither of you right or wrong. The
>>> statement "PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client." is
>>> not true in every case, even if it's typically true for PHP development.
>>> And I won't argue, if the name "Javascript" is correct in this context,
>>> or if one should use "ECMAScript" or point out that it's called
>>> "JScript" on IE.
>>>
>>
>> Nope.  The question was real.  How many browsers can run PHP code?
>
> *can*? AISB: at least all that implement the NPAPI, assuming that a PHP
> browser plugin *can* be (or already have been?) written.
>

Yes?  And for just which browsers have those plugins been written?  And 
how many are in use?

We're not talking some theoretical possibility here.  Please tell me how 
I can run PHP on my browser TODAY.  And which browser I can run it on. 
Then let me know about how many other people in the world are doing that.

>> And
>> how many web servers actually run Javascript (I'm not counting wanna-be
>> developers who are running 50 hit/mo. sites out of their basement, where
>> 49 of those hits are from the site owner).
>
> See e.g. <http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-js/all/all>.
> w3techs's only counting the top 1,000,000 sites.  So currently 250 of
> the top million websites are running Javascript (assumably all of them
> have far more than 50 hits/mo.).  And please note the trend: in 9 months
> the usage has doubled!
>

Yes, to quote:

"JavaScript is used by less than 0.1% of all the websites whose 
server-side programming language we know."  And, of course, they don't 
know if the sites are actually USING server-side javascript.  Only that 
a plugin has been installed on the server.

But then that they have no real idea - it's just a guess.  And even so, 
the percentage is so low as to be immaterial.  Let's see - 0.1% of 1M 
sites - that means that *maybe* 1,000 have the plugin installed.

>>>> IOW, he just opened his fat trap to hear himself talk, as usual.
>>>
>>> I can't acknowledge that statement. ISTM Thomas has quite some knowledge
>>> about web development, and I have learned from him, as I have from you.
>>>
>>
>> Not in this group he isn't.  And not in several other groups, where he's
>> also recognized as a troll.
>>
>>>> And, as usual, he's showing his ignorance (as are you).
>>>
>>> Would you have replied, if somebody had called you "Jerry Struggle",
>>> "stoopid" and "O great one"?
>>>
>>
>> I've been called worse.  And by better people than you.
>
> My apologies, as it seems I have not expressed myself properly.  I
> didn't mean to insult you in any way.  This was merely meant as a
> "translation" (sorry, I'm lacking the appropriate word) of your reply to
> Thomas, which might have been appropriate as reply to a troll -- which
> IMHO Thomas isn't -- but every reader should decide for himself.
>
> And yes, I'm quite aware that there are better people than me.  Thanks
> for reminding me.
>

You've expressed yourself quite well.  No translation necessary.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#6878 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote on Mon 27 Aug 2012 02:52:33a

> On 8/26/2012 11:42 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 8/26/2012 9:46 AM, Christoph Becker wrote:
>>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 8/22/2012 6:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2012 1:18 AM, sismaster wrote:
>>>>>>>>> i want to know how can i see what object include in java script
>>>>>>>>> and is
>>>>>>>>> there any tool to see what object contains
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>> And how can PHP see what objects are included in Javascript?
>>>>
>>>> Actually it can't. But Thomas didn't say so (please note the carets,
>>>> which might not be aligned properly in the news reader, but are so in
>>>> the source code of the message).
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, but that was the original question, wasn't it?
>>
>> I'm not sure about that. In fact the OP didn't even mention PHP. Well,
>> he posted on c.l.php, but it might well have been the wrong newsgroup. I
>> *guess* the OP just wanted to know some way to inspect JS objects, what
>> was already answered by Robert. But I may be wrong with this guess, as
>> I'm no native English speaker (what's probably quite obvious).
>>
> 
> He posted in a PHP newsgroup, so my answer was in relation to PHP.  If 
> he wanted something else, he should have been more clear (or posted in a 
> more appropriate newsgroup).
> 
> 
>>> But Pointed Head did indicate I was wrong on two accounts.  And you
>>> haven't said anything to prove otherwise.
>>
>> Actually I've just answered the questions *you* had asked (even if the
>> were rhetorical). I cannot prove neither of you right or wrong. The
>> statement "PHP runs on the server; Javascript runs on the client." is
>> not true in every case, even if it's typically true for PHP development.
>> And I won't argue, if the name "Javascript" is correct in this context,
>> or if one should use "ECMAScript" or point out that it's called
>> "JScript" on IE.
>>
> 
> Nope.  The question was real.  How many browsers can run PHP code?  And 
> how many web servers actually run Javascript (I'm not counting wanna-be 
> developers who are running 50 hit/mo. sites out of their basement, where 
> 49 of those hits are from the site owner).
> 
>>> IOW, he just opened his fat trap to hear himself talk, as usual.
>>
>> I can't acknowledge that statement. ISTM Thomas has quite some knowledge
>> about web development, and I have learned from him, as I have from you.
>>
> 
> Not in this group he isn't.  And not in several other groups, where he's 
> also recognized as a troll.
> 
>>> And, as usual, he's showing his ignorance (as are you).
>>
>> Would you have replied, if somebody had called you "Jerry Struggle",
>> "stoopid" and "O great one"?
>>
> 
> I've been called worse.  And by better people than you.

1.  Your reply to the original post was essentially correct:  IN PRACTICE, 
PHP is processed off the server and Javascript is processed at the client.  
This is what the OP should learn and know and understand.

2. The replies to your posted reply are the usual pedantic bullshit by the 
c.l.j. troll Pointed Ears.  Yeah, at RARE times he can be helpful while 
getting it right, but there are plenty of others who get it right virtually 
all the time without the snide, prima donna act [it may not be an act, but a 
hopeless, untreatable (psycho)pathology].  Yes, I can name at least one who 
gets it right without the arrogance and snide remarks.

3. The OP has probably been scared off by the fight usually provoked or 
instigated by this asshole Pointed Ears, whose social awkwardness is well 
known to regular lurkers and posters.  That's a shame, since your reply to 
him was entirely helpful compared to the angels-on-the-head-of-pin 
discussion that followed.

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#6881 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

In article <XnsA0BC4F40FA327mavi@88.198.244.100>,
 mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov.invalid> wrote:

> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote on Mon 27 Aug 2012 02:52:33a

> > I've been called worse.  And by better people than you.
> 
> 1.  Your reply to the original post was essentially correct:  IN PRACTICE, 
> PHP is processed off the server and Javascript is processed at the client.  
> This is what the OP should learn and know and understand.
> 
> 2. The replies to your posted reply are the usual pedantic bullshit by the 
> c.l.j. troll Pointed Ears.  Yeah, at RARE times he can be helpful while 
> getting it right, but there are plenty of others who get it right virtually 
> all the time without the snide, prima donna act [it may not be an act, but a 
> hopeless, untreatable (psycho)pathology].  Yes, I can name at least one who 
> gets it right without the arrogance and snide remarks.
> 
> 3. The OP has probably been scared off by the fight usually provoked or 
> instigated by this asshole Pointed Ears, whose social awkwardness is well 
> known to regular lurkers and posters.  That's a shame, since your reply to 
> him was entirely helpful compared to the angels-on-the-head-of-pin 
> discussion that followed.

Good summary. And a correct assessment of PointyHead, to whom the best 
thing to say under any circumstance is "Fuck off".

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#6882 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote on Mon 27 Aug 2012 12:17:10p

> In article <XnsA0BC4F40FA327mavi@88.198.244.100>,
>  mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote on Mon 27 Aug 2012
>> 02:52:33a 
> 
>> > I've been called worse.  And by better people than you.
>> 
>> 1.  Your reply to the original post was essentially correct:  IN
>> PRACTICE, PHP is processed off the server and Javascript is processed
>> at the client.  This is what the OP should learn and know and
>> understand. 
>> 
>> 2. The replies to your posted reply are the usual pedantic bullshit by
>> the c.l.j. troll Pointed Ears.  Yeah, at RARE times he can be helpful
>> while getting it right, but there are plenty of others who get it right
>> virtually all the time without the snide, prima donna act [it may not
>> be an act, but a hopeless, untreatable (psycho)pathology].  Yes, I can
>> name at least one who gets it right without the arrogance and snide
>> remarks. 
>> 
>> 3. The OP has probably been scared off by the fight usually provoked or
>> instigated by this asshole Pointed Ears, whose social awkwardness is
>> well known to regular lurkers and posters.  That's a shame, since your
>> reply to him was entirely helpful compared to the
>> angels-on-the-head-of-pin discussion that followed.
> 
> Good summary. And a correct assessment of PointyHead, to whom the best 
> thing to say under any circumstance is "Fuck off".

I do regret the name-calling---the use of the word "asshole"---and I wish to 
apologize.  It is unhelpful, and these are not the political newsgroups 
where than kind of language is rife.

I don't want to take away from the guy:  he's an academic who clearly looks 
into "why" and not just into "how," and the discipline is fortunate to have 
knowledgable individuals of his stature willing to lead the ranks.  I am 
just questioning his teaching style:  berating the students does not 
engender their desire to learn.

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#6883 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

In article <XnsA0BC93F368FB9mavi@88.198.244.100>,
 mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov.invalid> wrote:

> Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote on Mon 27 Aug 2012 12:17:10p
> 
> > In article <XnsA0BC4F40FA327mavi@88.198.244.100>,
> >  mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> >> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote on Mon 27 Aug 2012
> >> 02:52:33a 
> > 
> >> > I've been called worse.  And by better people than you.
> >> 
> >> 1.  Your reply to the original post was essentially correct:  IN
> >> PRACTICE, PHP is processed off the server and Javascript is processed
> >> at the client.  This is what the OP should learn and know and
> >> understand. 
> >> 
> >> 2. The replies to your posted reply are the usual pedantic bullshit by
> >> the c.l.j. troll Pointed Ears.  Yeah, at RARE times he can be helpful
> >> while getting it right, but there are plenty of others who get it right
> >> virtually all the time without the snide, prima donna act [it may not
> >> be an act, but a hopeless, untreatable (psycho)pathology].  Yes, I can
> >> name at least one who gets it right without the arrogance and snide
> >> remarks. 
> >> 
> >> 3. The OP has probably been scared off by the fight usually provoked or
> >> instigated by this asshole Pointed Ears, whose social awkwardness is
> >> well known to regular lurkers and posters.  That's a shame, since your
> >> reply to him was entirely helpful compared to the
> >> angels-on-the-head-of-pin discussion that followed.
> > 
> > Good summary. And a correct assessment of PointyHead, to whom the best 
> > thing to say under any circumstance is "Fuck off".
> 
> I do regret the name-calling---the use of the word "asshole"---and I wish to 
> apologize.  It is unhelpful, and these are not the political newsgroups 
> where than kind of language is rife.
> 
> I don't want to take away from the guy:  he's an academic who clearly looks 
> into "why" and not just into "how," and the discipline is fortunate to have 
> knowledgable individuals of his stature willing to lead the ranks.  I am 
> just questioning his teaching style:  berating the students does not 
> engender their desire to learn.

Indeed. And which will elicit the manner of response I suggested.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#6884 — Re: How can i know the propery of a javascript object how can i see what object inclue

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:32:47 +0000, mavigozler wrote:

> I don't want to take away from the guy:  he's an academic who clearly
> looks into "why" and not just into "how," and the discipline is
> fortunate to have knowledgable individuals of his stature willing to
> lead the ranks.  I am just questioning his teaching style:  berating the
> students does not engender their desire to learn.

If he is genuinely an academic, he's the perfect embodiment of the saying 
"those that can do, those that can't teach".

His sole "contribution" to www technology newsgroups, for as long as I've 
been able to discern, is to criticise wherever possible the solutions 
that other people post to anyone's questions.

He has never to my knowledge actually suggested code or markup himself in 
response to a problem, even when challenged to offer a better solution in 
response to his not uncommon posts along the lines of "your solution is 
flawed", his only ability seems to be to criticise the solutions posted 
by others.

I was initially taken in by his apparent knowledge, but quickly came to 
realise that he's just an ignorant, arrogant and pompous old twat with 
too much time on his hands.

Jerry S can be pompous too, but at least he knows what the fuck he's 
talking about, and if he's arrogant, well I figure he's earned the right 
to be.

Rgds

Denis McMahon

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