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Groups > comp.lang.php > #5471 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Charles <cchamb2@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-04-11 20:48 -0700 |
| Last post | 2012-04-13 15:27 +0200 |
| Articles | 15 on this page of 95 — 16 participants |
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Dynamic form generation Charles <cchamb2@gmail.com> - 2012-04-11 20:48 -0700
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-12 00:03 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-12 05:46 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2012-04-11 21:52 -0700
Re: Dynamic form generation Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2012-04-12 12:42 +0000
Re: Dynamic form generation Charles <cchamb2@gmail.com> - 2012-04-12 20:43 -0700
Re: Dynamic form generation Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2012-04-12 21:55 -0700
Re: Dynamic form generation Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2012-04-13 13:19 +0000
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-13 09:59 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2012-04-13 13:22 +0000
Re: Dynamic form generation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-17 14:49 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-17 11:36 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-18 09:33 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-18 07:59 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-19 09:56 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-19 08:29 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-20 09:27 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-20 07:47 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-21 12:22 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-21 10:19 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-22 11:45 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-22 10:09 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-24 18:21 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-24 20:56 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-25 09:23 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-24 16:20 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-25 10:04 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-25 08:29 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-26 12:45 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-22 19:21 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-23 13:50 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-24 11:10 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-24 17:11 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-24 18:54 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-24 18:55 +0100
[OT] Was: Dynamic form generation Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-25 13:22 +0200
Re: [OT] Was: Dynamic form generation The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-25 12:46 +0100
Re: [OT] Was: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-26 12:51 +0100
Re: [OT] Was: Dynamic form generation Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-27 10:26 +0200
[OT] Yes-or-no questions (was: [OT] Was: Dynamic form generation) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-28 07:56 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2012-04-14 08:53 -0500
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-15 08:33 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-15 08:51 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-16 09:31 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-16 08:33 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-16 15:11 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-16 11:18 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-17 09:18 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-17 06:07 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-18 09:10 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-18 08:09 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-19 09:27 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-19 08:41 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-20 10:10 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-20 08:09 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-21 10:35 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-21 06:21 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-22 10:27 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-22 10:43 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-23 15:23 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-23 12:24 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-26 17:29 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-23 20:37 +0100
What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-23 14:10 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Paul Herber <paul@pherber.com> - 2012-04-23 14:22 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-23 15:27 +0200
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-23 09:33 -0400
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-23 15:26 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-23 12:25 -0400
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2012-04-23 19:45 +0200
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-23 20:35 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-24 19:45 +0200
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-28 08:48 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-28 09:23 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-28 08:37 -0400
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-28 14:46 +0200
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-23 20:31 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-24 12:32 +1000
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-04-24 19:32 +0100
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-25 19:02 +1000
Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-25 12:20 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-22 23:59 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-23 14:05 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-23 09:35 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-04-23 15:41 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-23 20:39 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-23 09:47 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-25 08:52 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-25 08:34 -0400
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-27 09:52 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-27 14:16 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Charles <cchamb2@gmail.com> - 2012-05-03 15:23 -0700
Re: Dynamic form generation "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> - 2012-04-12 10:52 +0100
Re: Dynamic form generation Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-13 11:39 +0200
Re: Dynamic form generation Jonathan Stein <jstein@image.dk> - 2012-04-13 15:27 +0200
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-25 12:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: What Jerry Stuckle thinks of PHP programmers |
| Message-ID | <jn8mmk$f16$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #5711 |
Ross McKay wrote: > On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:32:24 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: > >> All of which is interesting but irrelevant. > > Like Jerry? :) Jerry isn't even interesting. -- To people who know nothing, anything is possible. To people who know too much, it is a sad fact that they know how little is really possible - and how hard it is to achieve it.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-22 23:59 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <2055880.9alNe96dWn@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #5587 |
Tony Marston wrote: > "Jerry Stuckle" wrote: >> On 4/19/2012 4:27 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >>> "Jerry Stuckle"<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message >>> news:jmmauq$9ke$1@dont-email.me... > <snip> >>>>>> You've been doing it that badly all this time? >>>>> >>>>> Not according to my fellow developers and paying customers. >>>> First rule is that customers don't know anything about good coding. >>>> And >>>> your fellow developers could easily be as bad as you. No credibility >>>> there. >>> Delivering code which satisfies the client takes a higher priority than >>> writing code which satisfies other programmers. It is not possible to >>> write code which satisfies EVERY programmer on the plant as they all >>> have different ideas as to what "best practice" actually is. >> >> It is when you're only doing simple stuff. REAL programmers concentrate >> on making their code MAINTAINABLE. Full ACK. I have never cared if the client would accept or even understand my code; indeed, if I told my boss that from now on I would be writing code that way, I would probably be fired on the spot because it does not pay. My clients so far are not programmers; it is difficult for them to understand the basic concepts of programming to begin with. The client has ordered an application for a price, and they are going to get the best application that can I can do for that price, with a profit margin, an error margin, and future maintenance in mind. As a result, my fellow developers are going to get the best maintainable code that I can write under those conditions (which really is not hard to do once you have accustomed yourself to some basic rules and tools of software development). > You have no basis on which to make the statement that my code is > unmaintainable. My code has been reviewed by many others, and the vast > majority have nothing but compliments. This is a common fallacy, a self-fulfilling prophecy, that many developers try to rationalize (their) bad code quality with. For you cannot know how many people have read the code *and* found it so bad that they did not care to point out its flaws to you. Nor can you know how knowledgable the people are who have reviewed the code and found it to be good. However, inevitably there are more people not knowing what they are doing than people knowing what they are doing: for any given field, there are many laymen, fewer intermediates, and very few experts. So the odds are against that from the mere majority of a randomly selected set of opinions a realistic assessment of any subject can be derived. This applies especially to source code as software development is a very special field. And the odds are against that expert in that field would bother complaining about bad code of others as they – being skilled in writing good code – would simply write the code to solve the problem themselves, if need be, or just move on to your competition. HTH PointedEars, with a fitting random signature -- > If you get a bunch of authors […] that state the same "best practices" > in any programming language, then you can bet who is wrong or right... Not with javascript. Nonsense propagates like wildfire in this field. -- Richard Cornford, comp.lang.javascript, 2011-11-14
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| From | "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-23 14:05 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <gsclr.34231$Sb1.6821@fx03.am4> |
| In reply to | #5664 |
"Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" <PointedEars@web.de> wrote in message news:2055880.9alNe96dWn@PointedEars.de... > Tony Marston wrote: > >> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote: >>> On 4/19/2012 4:27 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >>>> "Jerry Stuckle"<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message >>>> news:jmmauq$9ke$1@dont-email.me... >> <snip> >>>>>>> You've been doing it that badly all this time? >>>>>> >>>>>> Not according to my fellow developers and paying customers. >>>>> First rule is that customers don't know anything about good coding. >>>>> And >>>>> your fellow developers could easily be as bad as you. No credibility >>>>> there. >>>> Delivering code which satisfies the client takes a higher priority than >>>> writing code which satisfies other programmers. It is not possible to >>>> write code which satisfies EVERY programmer on the plant as they all >>>> have different ideas as to what "best practice" actually is. >>> >>> It is when you're only doing simple stuff. REAL programmers concentrate >>> on making their code MAINTAINABLE. > > Full ACK. I have never cared if the client would accept or even > understand > my code; indeed, if I told my boss that from now on I would be writing > code > that way, I would probably be fired on the spot because it does not pay. > My > clients so far are not programmers; it is difficult for them to understand > the basic concepts of programming to begin with. > > The client has ordered an application for a price, and they are going to > get > the best application that can I can do for that price, with a profit > margin, > an error margin, and future maintenance in mind. As a result, my fellow > developers are going to get the best maintainable code that I can write > under those conditions (which really is not hard to do once you have > accustomed yourself to some basic rules and tools of software > development). > >> You have no basis on which to make the statement that my code is >> unmaintainable. My code has been reviewed by many others, and the vast >> majority have nothing but compliments. > > This is a common fallacy, a self-fulfilling prophecy, that many developers > try to rationalize (their) bad code quality with. For you cannot know how > many people have read the code *and* found it so bad that they did not > care > to point out its flaws to you. Nor can you know how knowledgable the > people > are who have reviewed the code and found it to be good. The trouble is that there is no objective method of deciding whether someone's code is "not crap", "mildly crap" or "total crap". It is always subjective, with the only universal rule being "If it's different from mine then it's bo8und to be crap!" If you bother looking at my code you will see that it is properly modularised, properly commented, has meaningful data names and function names, and achieves its results as simply as possible. Other programmers strive to include as many design patters as they can, or as much clever code as they can in the vain hope that it will impress other programmers. I follow the KISS principle, which means that people who look my code for the first time have an easier job than when they look as someone else's "clever" code. > However, inevitably there are more people not knowing what they are doing > than people knowing what they are doing: for any given field, there are > many > laymen, fewer intermediates, and very few experts. So the odds are > against > that from the mere majority of a randomly selected set of opinions a > realistic assessment of any subject can be derived. This applies > especially > to source code as software development is a very special field. And the > odds are against that expert in that field would bother complaining about > bad code of others as they - being skilled in writing good code - would > simply write the code to solve the problem themselves, if need be, or just > move on to your competition. I take exception to people like Jerry Stuckle who are quick to brand my programming style as crap when they obviously don't understand how it works. The only thing that they see is that "my way" is different their "their way, the one true way" therefore it *must* be crap. You should also remember that I have released my development framework as open source so that anyone can download it, review it, criticise it, use it or ignore it. Jerry Stuckle, on the other hand, is too afraid to release his own wonderful framework to the world, even though he reckons that it is far superior to mine. Is it because he is too ashamed of his own framework? Is he afraid that someone (other than me, that is) will brand it as utter crap? -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-23 09:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jn3lqj$s5a$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #5671 |
On 4/23/2012 9:05 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > "Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"<PointedEars@web.de> wrote in message > news:2055880.9alNe96dWn@PointedEars.de... >> Tony Marston wrote: >> >>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote: >>>> On 4/19/2012 4:27 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >>>>> "Jerry Stuckle"<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:jmmauq$9ke$1@dont-email.me... >>> <snip> >>>>>>>> You've been doing it that badly all this time? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not according to my fellow developers and paying customers. >>>>>> First rule is that customers don't know anything about good coding. >>>>>> And >>>>>> your fellow developers could easily be as bad as you. No credibility >>>>>> there. >>>>> Delivering code which satisfies the client takes a higher priority than >>>>> writing code which satisfies other programmers. It is not possible to >>>>> write code which satisfies EVERY programmer on the plant as they all >>>>> have different ideas as to what "best practice" actually is. >>>> >>>> It is when you're only doing simple stuff. REAL programmers concentrate >>>> on making their code MAINTAINABLE. >> >> Full ACK. I have never cared if the client would accept or even >> understand >> my code; indeed, if I told my boss that from now on I would be writing >> code >> that way, I would probably be fired on the spot because it does not pay. >> My >> clients so far are not programmers; it is difficult for them to understand >> the basic concepts of programming to begin with. >> >> The client has ordered an application for a price, and they are going to >> get >> the best application that can I can do for that price, with a profit >> margin, >> an error margin, and future maintenance in mind. As a result, my fellow >> developers are going to get the best maintainable code that I can write >> under those conditions (which really is not hard to do once you have >> accustomed yourself to some basic rules and tools of software >> development). >> >>> You have no basis on which to make the statement that my code is >>> unmaintainable. My code has been reviewed by many others, and the vast >>> majority have nothing but compliments. >> >> This is a common fallacy, a self-fulfilling prophecy, that many developers >> try to rationalize (their) bad code quality with. For you cannot know how >> many people have read the code *and* found it so bad that they did not >> care >> to point out its flaws to you. Nor can you know how knowledgable the >> people >> are who have reviewed the code and found it to be good. > > The trouble is that there is no objective method of deciding whether > someone's code is "not crap", "mildly crap" or "total crap". It is always > subjective, with the only universal rule being "If it's different from mine > then it's bo8und to be crap!" > > If you bother looking at my code you will see that it is properly > modularised, properly commented, has meaningful data names and function > names, and achieves its results as simply as possible. Other programmers > strive to include as many design patters as they can, or as much clever code > as they can in the vain hope that it will impress other programmers. I > follow the KISS principle, which means that people who look my code for the > first time have an easier job than when they look as someone else's "clever" > code. > >> However, inevitably there are more people not knowing what they are doing >> than people knowing what they are doing: for any given field, there are >> many >> laymen, fewer intermediates, and very few experts. So the odds are >> against >> that from the mere majority of a randomly selected set of opinions a >> realistic assessment of any subject can be derived. This applies >> especially >> to source code as software development is a very special field. And the >> odds are against that expert in that field would bother complaining about >> bad code of others as they - being skilled in writing good code - would >> simply write the code to solve the problem themselves, if need be, or just >> move on to your competition. > > I take exception to people like Jerry Stuckle who are quick to brand my > programming style as crap when they obviously don't understand how it works. > The only thing that they see is that "my way" is different their "their way, > the one true way" therefore it *must* be crap. > > You should also remember that I have released my development framework as > open source so that anyone can download it, review it, criticise it, use it > or ignore it. Jerry Stuckle, on the other hand, is too afraid to release his > own wonderful framework to the world, even though he reckons that it is far > superior to mine. Is it because he is too ashamed of his own framework? Is > he afraid that someone (other than me, that is) will brand it as utter crap? > Whether I release my framework or not has nothing to do with the fact yours is crap. It's just another attempt by the incompetent to divert the conversation from the real target. We know you're a lousy programmer, Tony. You've proven it time and time again with your statements. You should have quit while you were ahead. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-23 15:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <19079377.csPzL39ZcT@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #5671 |
Tony Marston wrote: > "Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" <PointedEars@web.de> wrote in message > news:2055880.9alNe96dWn@PointedEars.de... It is called attribution _line_, not attribution novel. >> Tony Marston wrote: >>> You have no basis on which to make the statement that my code is >>> unmaintainable. My code has been reviewed by many others, and the vast >>> majority have nothing but compliments. >> >> This is a common fallacy, a self-fulfilling prophecy, that many >> developers try to rationalize (their) bad code quality with. For you >> cannot know how many people have read the code *and* found it so bad that >> they did not care to point out its flaws to you. Nor can you know how >> knowledgable the people are who have reviewed the code and found it to be >> good. > > The trouble is that there is no objective method of deciding whether > someone's code is "not crap", "mildly crap" or "total crap". It is always > subjective, with the only universal rule being "If it's different from > mine then it's bo8und to be crap!" Wrong on all accounts. There are theoretically sound, practically proven and therefore well-established rules of thumb – at least – in software development. Ignoring them, or not being aware of them in the first place, leads to objectively bad code. So as I said, it all boils down not only to knowledge but to knowledgability, which comes from and with experience. > You should also remember that I have released my development framework as > open source so that anyone can download it, review it, criticise it, use > it or ignore it. Jerry Stuckle, on the other hand, is too afraid to > release his own wonderful framework to the world, even though he reckons > that it is far superior to mine. Is it because he is too ashamed of his > own framework? Is he afraid that someone (other than me, that is) will > brand it as utter crap? This is another common fallacy: Argumentum ad hominem. PointedEars -- > If you get a bunch of authors […] that state the same "best practices" > in any programming language, then you can bet who is wrong or right... Not with javascript. Nonsense propagates like wildfire in this field. -- Richard Cornford, comp.lang.javascript, 2011-11-14
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-23 20:39 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <jn4b5a$av2$3@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #5671 |
Tony Marston wrote: > I take exception to people like Jerry Stuckle who are quick to brand my > programming style as crap when they obviously don't understand how it works. > The only thing that they see is that "my way" is different their "their way, > the one true way" therefore it *must* be crap. In a nutshell, that is jerry. 1/. What took you so long? 2/. Why haven't you plonked it? -- To people who know nothing, anything is possible. To people who know too much, it is a sad fact that they know how little is really possible - and how hard it is to achieve it.
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-23 09:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jn3mi4$29f$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #5664 |
On 4/22/2012 5:59 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > Tony Marston wrote: > >> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote: >>> On 4/19/2012 4:27 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >>>> "Jerry Stuckle"<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message >>>> news:jmmauq$9ke$1@dont-email.me... >> <snip> >>>>>>> You've been doing it that badly all this time? >>>>>> >>>>>> Not according to my fellow developers and paying customers. >>>>> First rule is that customers don't know anything about good coding. >>>>> And >>>>> your fellow developers could easily be as bad as you. No credibility >>>>> there. >>>> Delivering code which satisfies the client takes a higher priority than >>>> writing code which satisfies other programmers. It is not possible to >>>> write code which satisfies EVERY programmer on the plant as they all >>>> have different ideas as to what "best practice" actually is. >>> >>> It is when you're only doing simple stuff. REAL programmers concentrate >>> on making their code MAINTAINABLE. > > Full ACK. I have never cared if the client would accept or even understand > my code; indeed, if I told my boss that from now on I would be writing code > that way, I would probably be fired on the spot because it does not pay. My > clients so far are not programmers; it is difficult for them to understand > the basic concepts of programming to begin with. > > The client has ordered an application for a price, and they are going to get > the best application that can I can do for that price, with a profit margin, > an error margin, and future maintenance in mind. As a result, my fellow > developers are going to get the best maintainable code that I can write > under those conditions (which really is not hard to do once you have > accustomed yourself to some basic rules and tools of software development). > >> You have no basis on which to make the statement that my code is >> unmaintainable. My code has been reviewed by many others, and the vast >> majority have nothing but compliments. > > This is a common fallacy, a self-fulfilling prophecy, that many developers > try to rationalize (their) bad code quality with. For you cannot know how > many people have read the code *and* found it so bad that they did not care > to point out its flaws to you. Nor can you know how knowledgable the people > are who have reviewed the code and found it to be good. > Very true. And notice how he's trying to rationalize his poor code now? > However, inevitably there are more people not knowing what they are doing > than people knowing what they are doing: for any given field, there are many > laymen, fewer intermediates, and very few experts. So the odds are against > that from the mere majority of a randomly selected set of opinions a > realistic assessment of any subject can be derived. This applies especially > to source code as software development is a very special field. And the > odds are against that expert in that field would bother complaining about > bad code of others as they – being skilled in writing good code – would > simply write the code to solve the problem themselves, if need be, or just > move on to your competition. > Again, true. Good programmers can agree on what's good code and what's crap code. Just because someone does things a different way doesn't make it "bad". And I've found a direct correlation between the quality of a programmer and his/her willingness to accept criticism. Good programmers can take suggestions on their own code objectively. Poor programmers will defend their crap until the day they die (and longer if they could). > > HTH > > PointedEars, with a fitting random signature -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-25 08:52 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <C2Olr.153845$m91.4787@fx24.am4> |
| In reply to | #5678 |
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:jn3mi4$29f$1@dont-email.me... <snip> > Again, true. Good programmers can agree on what's good code and what's > crap code. Just because someone does things a different way doesn't make > it "bad". > > And I've found a direct correlation between the quality of a programmer > and his/her willingness to accept criticism. I can accept criticism in the form of "you do it that way, but wouldn't this way be better?", but all you sem to do is state time and timer again "your way is different from mine, therefore it must be crap". > Good programmers can take suggestions on their own code objectively. Poor > programmers will defend their crap until the day they die (and longer if > they could). I would always welcome suggestions to improve my code, but by "improve" I do *NOT* mean "make it the same as mine". If I did everything the same as you then I would be no better than you, and I'm afraid that your best is not good enough. The fact that my methods of achieving a result are different from yours does not make my methods "wrong", only "different". They work, therefore they are not wrong. You have not provided any code samples that demonstrate that your methods are superior, so why should I or anyone else believe that your methods are superior? Just be cause you say so? -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-25 08:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jn8r0c$iss$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #5708 |
On 4/25/2012 3:52 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > "Jerry Stuckle"<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message > news:jn3mi4$29f$1@dont-email.me... > <snip> >> Again, true. Good programmers can agree on what's good code and what's >> crap code. Just because someone does things a different way doesn't make >> it "bad". >> >> And I've found a direct correlation between the quality of a programmer >> and his/her willingness to accept criticism. > > I can accept criticism in the form of "you do it that way, but wouldn't this > way be better?", but all you sem to do is state time and timer again "your > way is different from mine, therefore it must be crap". > No, you can't. I've tried to tell you which ways are better, as indicated by world-recognized experts. But you're too stoopid to understand. You won't even pick up a book by one of those experts. >> Good programmers can take suggestions on their own code objectively. Poor >> programmers will defend their crap until the day they die (and longer if >> they could). > > I would always welcome suggestions to improve my code, but by "improve" I do > *NOT* mean "make it the same as mine". If I did everything the same as you > then I would be no better than you, and I'm afraid that your best is not > good enough. > No, you don't. All you do is defend your crap, which goes against many recognized good practices. > The fact that my methods of achieving a result are different from yours does > not make my methods "wrong", only "different". They work, therefore they are > not wrong. > The fact you don't even understand basic concepts like encapsulation makes your code crap. > You have not provided any code samples that demonstrate that your methods > are superior, so why should I or anyone else believe that your methods are > superior? Just be cause you say so? > I don't need to. I've told you show it should be done (i.e. private variables, setters/getters, etc.). But you've discounted all of that. Read some books by world-recognized experts. But I know that's beyond your comprehension. The only thing you'll read is someone who agrees with you on the internet. But I'm tired of trying to teach a pig to sing. You can have the last word. Idiots need that. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-27 09:52 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Q6tmr.334832$nF6.280443@fx10.am4> |
| In reply to | #5724 |
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:jn8r0c$iss$1@dont-email.me... >> I can accept criticism in the form of "you do it that way, but wouldn't >> this >> way be better?", but all you sem to do is state time and timer again >> "your >> way is different from mine, therefore it must be crap". > > No, you can't. I've tried to tell you which ways are better, as indicated > by world-recognized experts. But you're too stoopid to understand. You > won't even pick up a book by one of those experts. You have never asked the question "Do you think that *this* way is better?" you have simply said "Your way is wrong! You *MUST* do it *MY* way!" That is not giving me "advice", that is giving me an order! If you give me advice then I may consider it, but if you give me an order then I will ignore it. As for *your* favourite experts - there is no such thing as a single set of experts with whom everybody agrees. There are millions of books and millions of articles on the subject of programming written by millins of authors. Who is to say which of those is an "expert" and who is not? In my long career I have read many books and many articles, and have worked of many pieces of code written in many different ways by many different programmers. I have seen good code and I have seen bad code. I have seen coding styles that I agree with and try to emulate, and coding styles that I disagree with and avoid like the plague. Whenever I see a piece of code or read a book or article on how code should be written I take that as "advice" and not an "order". Sometimes I agree with what I read, but sometimes I disagree. I will *ONLY* follow those practices with which I agree, and I will ignore those practices with which I do not agree. If you are te kind of programmer who says "I have just read this in a book, so I *MUST* follow it without question" then you are an idiot. I evaluate everything I read, and if I don't like it then I don't use it. >> I would always welcome suggestions to improve my code, but by "improve" I >> do >> *NOT* mean "make it the same as mine". If I did everything the same as >> you >> then I would be no better than you, and I'm afraid that your best is not >> good enough. > > No, you don't. All you do is defend your crap, which goes against many > recognized good practices. I repeat, there is no such thing as a single set of practices which are universally recognised by *ALL* programmers. I don't follow your favourite practices just as you don't follow mine. We agree to disagree, so leave it at that. >> The fact that my methods of achieving a result are different from yours >> does >> not make my methods "wrong", only "different". They work, therefore they >> are >> not wrong. > > The fact you don't even understand basic concepts like encapsulation makes > your code crap. It is *your* definition of encapsulation which is twisted, not mine. Encasulaton does *NOT* require that all properties are private, and it does *NOT* require that all values are manipulated via getters and setters. >> You have not provided any code samples that demonstrate that your methods >> are superior, so why should I or anyone else believe that your methods >> are >> superior? Just be cause you say so? > > I don't need to. I've told you show it should be done (i.e. private > variables, setters/getters, etc.). But you've discounted all of that. Private variables and getters/setters are *NOT* a requirement of encapsulation. > Read some books by world-recognized experts. But I know that's beyond > your comprehension. The only thing you'll read is someone who agrees with > you on the internet. > > But I'm tired of trying to teach a pig to sing. You can have the last > word. Idiots need that. You should realise that you can't teach a pig to sing just as you can't teach a fish to ride a bicycle. You will never teach me to program the way that you do for the simple reason that it would be a giant step backwards. If I did everything the same as you then I would be no better tan you, and I'm afraid that your best is simply not good enough. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org
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| From | "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-27 14:16 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <J_wmr.304117$mj1.149747@fx25.am4> |
| In reply to | #5724 |
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jn8r0c$iss$1@dont-email.me...
<snip>
> The fact you don't even understand basic concepts like encapsulation makes
> your code crap.
It is *YOUR* understanding of encapsulation which is flawed, not mine. You
seem to think that there are only two ways of putting data into an object:
(1) Using a publicly accessible variable, as in $object->foo = 'bar';
(2) Making the variable "private" and using a setter, as in
$object->setFoo('bar');
You are totally blind to the 3rd option which is:
(3) Inject data via a method's argument, as in
$object->insertRecord($_POST);
Don't forget that $_POST is an array which can contain any number of values,
or even arrays of values. I can just as easily use the $_GET array, or even
an array which is created within another object. How the array is created is
irrelevant.
As $object represents a database table all the data going in and coming out
is a single array variable which can contain either any number of columns,
or any number of rows and columns. When data is passed around internally,
such as through the validation object, it is also passed in as a single
array variable. This means that I never have to unpick the array and use
separate setters for each component within the array.
Encapsulation is nothing more than: "The act of placing data and the
operations that perform on that data in the same class."
There is *NO* rule in the definition of encapsulation which says that I
*MUST* make all the properties private. That is "information hiding", not
"implementation hiding", and encapsulation was *NEVER* meant to mean
information hiding. Even Martin Fowler, the author of Patterns of Enterprise
Application Architecture says so. Is he not considered to be an "expert" in
your eyes?
There is *NO* rule in the definition of encapsulation which says that I
*MUST* inject data one value at a time using a separate setter method. If I
want to inject a collection of data as a single array then there is no rule
which says that I can't. If I want to inject the data as an argument on a
method call then there is no rule which says that I can't.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
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| From | Charles <cchamb2@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-03 15:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10862707.26.1336083819692.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynbq3> |
| In reply to | #5508 |
Actually, phpmyedit has removed the back end support problems. It wrote a php script that works with a php class to create custom data entry forms usable from a support perspective. Now all I need is the front facing (customer/end user) forms, and they change a lot easier. On to multitable data entry! On Friday, April 13, 2012 1:59:52 AM UTC-7, Tony Marston wrote: > "Charles" <cchamb2@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:6651622.883.1334288601914.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbfj25... > > Absolutely correct. The database has 34 active and 34 historical tables > > so far, and my guess is that about another dozen or so of each to create. > > I can visualize the relationships between the tables, and I'm normalizing > > as > > I go on table structure, but having to wII found the answer to this one. I can rite and maintain somewhere around > >150 scripts each and every time I so much as sneeze (add/remove a field or > > change a field type in any of the 100 tables) is daunting. > > > I'm just as comfortable with calling a script to do crate each form as I > > need it. > > > Any suggestions? > > If you used a proper framework then you wouldn't have to do so much work for > a minor database change. If you used radicore all you would have to do is > re-import the table's structure into the data dictionary and then export the > updated structure to replace the table's structure file. The only time you > would need to modify another script would be if you needed to change the > screen structure (by modifying a small screen structure file) or a business > rule (by modifying that table's class file). > > A lot of simple changes, such as a field's size, can be achieved with a > simple import/export without having to modify any scripts at all. > > Tony Marston > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:42:15 AM UTC-7, Denis McMahon wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:52:31 -0700, Michael Vilain wrote: > > > > > You'll have to read up on how to use php to access mysql (or > > > whatever database you're using as a backend), display forms, and process > > > them via get or post. > > > > I think he knows that much, what he's asking for is a bit more complex > > than the very basic "how do I use php and mysql to generate web pages" > > that you seem to not be answering. > > > > What he's talking about, specifically, is code that takes the output of > > the sql query "describe <tablename>;" or "show columns from <tablename>" > > and generates forms to enter, update or display the data in that table > > based on the table structure. > > > > i.e. first of all taking the output of the describe <tablename> / show > > columns from <tablename> query, generating a list of fieldnames and > > datatypes, and then generating suitable forms / tables etc to display / > > enter / update those values and insert into / update the tables as > > appropriate. > > > > Rgds > > > > Denis McMahon On Friday, April 13, 2012 1:59:52 AM UTC-7, Tony Marston wrote: > "Charles" <cchamb2@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:6651622.883.1334288601914.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbfj25... > > Absolutely correct. The database has 34 active and 34 historical tables > > so far, and my guess is that about another dozen or so of each to create. > > I can visualize the relationships between the tables, and I'm normalizing > > as > > I go on table structure, but having to write and maintain somewhere around > >150 scripts each and every time I so much as sneeze (add/remove a field or > > change a field type in any of the 100 tables) is daunting. > > > I'm just as comfortable with calling a script to do crate each form as I > > need it. > > > Any suggestions? > > If you used a proper framework then you wouldn't have to do so much work for > a minor database change. If you used radicore all you would have to do is > re-import the table's structure into the data dictionary and then export the > updated structure to replace the table's structure file. The only time you > would need to modify another script would be if you needed to change the > screen structure (by modifying a small screen structure file) or a business > rule (by modifying that table's class file). > > A lot of simple changes, such as a field's size, can be achieved with a > simple import/export without having to modify any scripts at all. > > Tony Marston > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:42:15 AM UTC-7, Denis McMahon wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:52:31 -0700, Michael Vilain wrote: > > > > > You'll have to read up on how to use php to access mysql (or > > > whatever database you're using as a backend), display forms, and process > > > them via get or post. > > > > I think he knows that much, what he's asking for is a bit more complex > > than the very basic "how do I use php and mysql to generate web pages" > > that you seem to not be answering. > > > > What he's talking about, specifically, is code that takes the output of > > the sql query "describe <tablename>;" or "show columns from <tablename>" > > and generates forms to enter, update or display the data in that table > > based on the table structure. > > > > i.e. first of all taking the output of the describe <tablename> / show > > columns from <tablename> query, generating a list of fieldnames and > > datatypes, and then generating suitable forms / tables etc to display / > > enter / update those values and insert into / update the tables as > > appropriate. > > > > Rgds > > > > Denis McMahon On Friday, April 13, 2012 1:59:52 AM UTC-7, Tony Marston wrote: > "Charles" <cchamb2@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:6651622.883.1334288601914.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbfj25... > > Absolutely correct. The database has 34 active and 34 historical tables > > so far, and my guess is that about another dozen or so of each to create. > > I can visualize the relationships between the tables, and I'm normalizing > > as > > I go on table structure, but having to write and maintain somewhere around > >150 scripts each and every time I so much as sneeze (add/remove a field or > > change a field type in any of the 100 tables) is daunting. > > > I'm just as comfortable with calling a script to do crate each form as I > > need it. > > > Any suggestions? > > If you used a proper framework then you wouldn't have to do so much work for > a minor database change. If you used radicore all you would have to do is > re-import the table's structure into the data dictionary and then export the > updated structure to replace the table's structure file. The only time you > would need to modify another script would be if you needed to change the > screen structure (by modifying a small screen structure file) or a business > rule (by modifying that table's class file). > > A lot of simple changes, such as a field's size, can be achieved with a > simple import/export without having to modify any scripts at all. > > Tony Marston > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:42:15 AM UTC-7, Denis McMahon wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:52:31 -0700, Michael Vilain wrote: > > > > > You'll have to read up on how to use php to access mysql (or > > > whatever database you're using as a backend), display forms, and process > > > them via get or post. > > > > I think he knows that much, what he's asking for is a bit more complex > > than the very basic "how do I use php and mysql to generate web pages" > > that you seem to not be answering. > > > > What he's talking about, specifically, is code that takes the output of > > the sql query "describe <tablename>;" or "show columns from <tablename>" > > and generates forms to enter, update or display the data in that table > > based on the table structure. > > > > i.e. first of all taking the output of the describe <tablename> / show > > columns from <tablename> query, generating a list of fieldnames and > > datatypes, and then generating suitable forms / tables etc to display / > > enter / update those values and insert into / update the tables as > > appropriate. > > > > Rgds > > > > Denis McMahon On Friday, April 13, 2012 1:59:52 AM UTC-7, Tony Marston wrote: > "Charles" <cchamb2@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:6651622.883.1334288601914.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbfj25... > > Absolutely correct. The database has 34 active and 34 historical tables > > so far, and my guess is that about another dozen or so of each to create. > > I can visualize the relationships between the tables, and I'm normalizing > > as > > I go on table structure, but having to write and maintain somewhere around > >150 scripts each and every time I so much as sneeze (add/remove a field or > > change a field type in any of the 100 tables) is daunting. > > > I'm just as comfortable with calling a script to do crate each form as I > > need it. > > > Any suggestions? > > If you used a proper framework then you wouldn't have to do so much work for > a minor database change. If you used radicore all you would have to do is > re-import the table's structure into the data dictionary and then export the > updated structure to replace the table's structure file. The only time you > would need to modify another script would be if you needed to change the > screen structure (by modifying a small screen structure file) or a business > rule (by modifying that table's class file). > > A lot of simple changes, such as a field's size, can be achieved with a > simple import/export without having to modify any scripts at all. > > Tony Marston > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:42:15 AM UTC-7, Denis McMahon wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:52:31 -0700, Michael Vilain wrote: > > > > > You'll have to read up on how to use php to access mysql (or > > > whatever database you're using as a backend), display forms, and process > > > them via get or post. > > > > I think he knows that much, what he's asking for is a bit more complex > > than the very basic "how do I use php and mysql to generate web pages" > > that you seem to not be answering. > > > > What he's talking about, specifically, is code that takes the output of > > the sql query "describe <tablename>;" or "show columns from <tablename>" > > and generates forms to enter, update or display the data in that table > > based on the table structure. > > > > i.e. first of all taking the output of the describe <tablename> / show > > columns from <tablename> query, generating a list of fieldnames and > > datatypes, and then generating suitable forms / tables etc to display / > > enter / update those values and insert into / update the tables as > > appropriate. > > > > Rgds > > > > Denis McMahon On Friday, April 13, 2012 1:59:52 AM UTC-7, Tony Marston wrote: > "Charles" <cchamb2@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:6651622.883.1334288601914.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbfj25... > > Absolutely correct. The database has 34 active and 34 historical tables > > so far, and my guess is that about another dozen or so of each to create. > > I can visualize the relationships between the tables, and I'm normalizing > > as > > I go on table structure, but having to write and maintain somewhere around > >150 scripts each and every time I so much as sneeze (add/remove a field or > > change a field type in any of the 100 tables) is daunting. > > > I'm just as comfortable with calling a script to do crate each form as I > > need it. > > > Any suggestions? > > If you used a proper framework then you wouldn't have to do so much work for > a minor database change. If you used radicore all you would have to do is > re-import the table's structure into the data dictionary and then export the > updated structure to replace the table's structure file. The only time you > would need to modify another script would be if you needed to change the > screen structure (by modifying a small screen structure file) or a business > rule (by modifying that table's class file). > > A lot of simple changes, such as a field's size, can be achieved with a > simple import/export without having to modify any scripts at all. > > Tony Marston > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:42:15 AM UTC-7, Denis McMahon wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:52:31 -0700, Michael Vilain wrote: > > > > > You'll have to read up on how to use php to access mysql (or > > > whatever database you're using as a backend), display forms, and process > > > them via get or post. > > > > I think he knows that much, what he's asking for is a bit more complex > > than the very basic "how do I use php and mysql to generate web pages" > > that you seem to not be answering. > > > > What he's talking about, specifically, is code that takes the output of > > the sql query "describe <tablename>;" or "show columns from <tablename>" > > and generates forms to enter, update or display the data in that table > > based on the table structure. > > > > i.e. first of all taking the output of the describe <tablename> / show > > columns from <tablename> query, generating a list of fieldnames and > > datatypes, and then generating suitable forms / tables etc to display / > > enter / update those values and insert into / update the tables as > > appropriate. > > > > Rgds > > > > Denis McMahon
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| From | "Tony Marston" <tony@NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-12 10:52 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <%Bxhr.112891$8i.106903@fx19.am4> |
| In reply to | #5471 |
If you are working on a database application rather than a website then you might want to look at http://www.radicore.org which is an open source framework specifically designed for database applications. You import your table structures into the data dictionary, export them to generate your class files, then generate user transactions from a library of transaction patterns. You can generate working transactions in a matter of minutes, all without writing a single line of PHP, HTML or SQL. All the plumbing is done for you, so all you need do is add custom code for the payload. It has an inbuilt logon screen, Role Based Access Control (RBAC), dynamic menus, audit logging, and an activity-based workflow system. This framework has been used to create an ERP package which has helped an online jewellery company triple its turnover to Ł2.5m per year without increasing its cost base. That package has over 200 database tables, 350 relationships and 1700 transactions, so Radicore has been proven to work in the commercial world. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org "Charles" <cchamb2@gmail.com> wrote in message news:7262665.439.1334202496427.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbgx21... > I'm working on a database application, and I'd like to write a function > that takes the table structure from a MySQL database table and generates a > fresh data entry form from it each time someone browses to it. > > That way I can have four functions that serve the four purposes of data > entry, view/query, edit, and delete, instead of 4 scripts for each table > (the application has 64 tables so far) that have to be editted every time > the table changes. > > Is it possible to use PHP to generate data entry forms on the fly? > > Does anyone have any recommendation for a reference resource or some > sample code to study for this? > >
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| From | Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-13 11:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4f87f44e$0$6961$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #5471 |
On 4/12/2012 5:48 AM, Charles wrote:
> I'm working on a database application, and I'd like to write a function that takes the table structure from a MySQL database table and generates a fresh data entry form from it each time someone browses to it.
>
> That way I can have four functions that serve the four purposes of data entry, view/query, edit, and delete, instead of 4 scripts for each table (the application has 64 tables so far) that have to be editted every time the table changes.
>
> Is it possible to use PHP to generate data entry forms on the fly?
>
> Does anyone have any recommendation for a reference resource or some sample code to study for this?
>
Hi Charles,
I have written such a contraption for Postgres 8.1 a few years ago.
I don't think I am allowed to send you the code, but I can describe it
(translated to mysql).
The approach is really simple:
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/getting-information.html
1) Figure out how you can get a listing of all your tables in the db.
('show tables' in mysql, I think)
2) List them all on the screen, and hyperlink to a details page.
3) Look up all the columns in use for that given table.
('describe table' I think)
4) Make a mapping for each datatype you want to support.
Don't try to support everything: BLOB makes no sense to edit in a html form.
For example:
$myMapping = [
"CHAR(x)" => "TS",
"VARCHAR(x)" => "TS",
"TEXT" => "TB",
"TINYINT" => "I",
etc...
];
TS meaning Texttype and small (Use INPUT type="text" in form)
TB meaning Texttype and big (Use textarea in form)
I meaning int.
You need a bit smarter code than plain matching, since CHAR(30) must match.
You can use a regular expression.
Now you can map every column to a suitable HTML form element.
You can also use that mapping to do the right casting before inserting
when you receive a new row.
for example: use mysql_realescape() on TS and TB.
Cast received integers to int.
Cast floats/doubles to... etc.
It isn't too difficult to write if you use a simple mapping array and
only support datatypes that make sense. I wrote a simple one in 1 day.
And it is fun. :-)
Hope this helps you going.
Good luck.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
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| From | Jonathan Stein <jstein@image.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-13 15:27 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4f8829b3$0$292$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #5471 |
Den 12-04-2012 05:48, Charles wrote:
> I'm working on a database application, and I'd like to write a function that takes the table structure from a MySQL database table and generates a fresh data entry form from it each time someone browses to it.
I would strongly recommend a framework. My favorite is CakePHP
(http://cakephp.org/), which can dynamically generate pages to create,
read, update or delete records in your database.
If you obey to some naming conventions, CakePHP can handle relations
between your tables without any additional coding.
You can customize the way your pages are generated - and if you want to
customize specific pages more, CakePHP can write the code for the page,
so that you change any detail the way you prefer. (But then you have to
maintain the page manually).
- But you must be prepared to invest some time learning your framework,
before you start to gain from it!
Regards
Jonathan
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